Questions about cycling

[Daniel_SR]

Hi everyone! I was wondering if it´s really necessary to cycle a bare bottom tank. If it´s, for how long? A whole month? Isn´t only the filter that´s going to be cycled? And what about maintenance. If we have a bare bottom tank, the only thing the bacterial colony has to get fixed is the filter, right? So when comes the time to clean it up, what happens to that colony? Will we always be cycling our tanks? I'm kinda confused as you may see!

Thanks for the answers!

Daniel

[Ralph]

Hi again Daniel,
The filter is a condensed bacteria colony, where many nitrifying bacteria live and transform ammonia and nitrite into the less toxic nitrate. You are not really cycling the tank, you are giving the good bacteria time to multiply and colonize the filter. The bacteria live on every surface of the tank but it is the filter that allows you to fully stock your tank.
I bought a new tank yesterday but I don't need to cycle it because I have a cycled filter from an existing tank to put on my new tank.
There are some posts in Water Works that explain cycling, basically it is providing ammonia from fish or store-bought ammonia for the bacteria to "eat" and then giving them time to multiply (usually 3 to 6 weeks).
Your question about cleaning the filter is a good one because that is probably one of the more common mistakes of new fish keepers, they accidently kill the bacteria colony when they clean the filter and then their fish have problems in a couple days (fin rot, not eating, and even death). The filters are cleaned with nonchlorinated water at the same temp as the aquarium. Most use the aquarium water to clean the filter. And if you have to replace the filter for any reason, just replace part of it at a time. For example, replace the bag and not the contents, or vice versa.
Ask more questions if this didn't make sense.

[ronrca]

Ralph!
No underestimating 'cleaning the filter' problem! In all my filters I use bio spheres/cubes/balls whatever they are called. Plus, I also use foam on the outputs/inputs of the filter. This way I can clean the foam without disturbing the bacteria. The bio balls I never touch, only the foam.

[Carol_Roberts]

Ralph has given you some good information.

You are correct - the filter is what needs to be cycled.

I wipe down the inside of the tank and bottom about once a week.

I rinse the filter media in a bucket of used aquarium water when needed - say every 4 to 6 weeks with a good prefilter sponge on the intake tube.

[Daniel_SR]

Hi there Ralph, thanks again for your time and knowledge! With my Fluval, i do just like ronrca said, i clean just some filtering elements, and let others for some other time, or just don´t clean at all some of them. I was really confused about that simple sponge filter used in bare bottom tanks, ´cause or you clean it all, or you don´t. But just as you said, we must use nonchlorinated water , or even better, the water right from the tank itself.

But let´s go a little further now, and suppose we don´t have a bare bottom anymore, but a nice gravel bottom. In that case, the thank does need cycling, doesn´t it? Or still just the filter? ???

Thanks for your answers!

Daniel

[Ralph]

Hi Daniel,
Boas perguntas.
It's still the filter that is cycled. The gravel will provide more surface areas for bacteria colonization but the filter is the primary area for processing the ammonia and nitrite. A planted tank is a little different. The plants actually use the nitrogen in the ammonia, making it nontoxic. But the number of plants needed to process the wastes from one fish is sizable. Before filters were invented, aquariums had many plants for just a few fish. For the most part, people just cycle their filters in a planted tank the same way that they would for a tank with no gravel.
Great questions.

[Daniel_SR]

Hi Ralph!
Boas respostas! ;D ;D ;D

See you!

Daniel

[marcw]

And just what does a colony of bacteria look like? It's the slimy stuff, right? And a tank is considered cycled when both the Ammonia and Nitrite levels are 0? And then it's safe to add the fish? Am I understanding this correctly? Argh! So, many questions!

I found this site about a week too late. I've just set up my first discus tank, and now realise there's a couple of things I should have done a bit differently Don't think the cycling was one of 'em, though.

And Ralph! A man after my own heart! Punk's not dead at all!! ;D

[Carol_Roberts]

Your tank is cycled when you start showing nitrAte.

NitrIte and ammonia should be zero in a fully cycled tank, but nitrIte can be zero in an uncycled tank too. Ammonia will show no matter what, but the nitrIte will not begin to show until the good bacteria grow enough to convert the ammonia to nitrIte.

[KD]

My tank just started to show nitrites after 4 weeks. Be patient and it will eventually get to that point just sit back and forget about the tank for awhile - Do keep an eye on the ammonia levels you want them to stay before you start showing nitrites (start testing for nitrites after a couple of weeks or so and like magic they start showing). There are a few good articles on this site about fishless cycle. I started with the filtration air stone and heaters in place and added 5 PPM ammonia (Clear household ammonia NOT Sudsy or Colored). My fish are on order and I can't wait to get them next week.
GOOD LUCK!!

[marcw]

[quote author=Carol_Roberts link=board=21;threadid=7107;start=0#msg181338 date=1080695423]
Your tank is cycled when you start showing nitrAte.

NitrIte and ammonia should be zero in a fully cycled tank, but nitrIte can be zero in an uncycled tank too. Ammonia will show no matter what, but the nitrIte will not begin to show until the good bacteria grow enough to convert the ammonia to nitrIte.
[/quote]
OK - my tests are showing Ammonia at 1ppm, NitrIte at 0, and NitrAte at 10ppm. I'm getting mixed messages here - the appearance of NitrAte seems to indicate the tank is cycled, but Ammonia isn't 0. What's the answer? Wait a bit longer, I assume, 'til Ammonia is 0?

[Keystonediscus]

Carol is right when she stated a fully cycled tank should show 0 ppm for both ammonia and nitrite and you are showing nitrates. if you have recently added fish the ammonia levels and nitrite may cycle again as the new amounts of waist will cause a new growth of bacteria as they reestablish a balance in the tank environment. this is why its recomended to purchase a few fish at a time as you populate your tank and monitor your perameters regularly during this time. Each time you add more fish your tank will cycle to regain its balance it will not be as drastic a change as your first cycleing but you will be able to see it in your water tests.

[marcw]

Ah yes - that makes sense. I HAVE recently added fish (and taken them out again, and put some more back in....) so the balance is constantly being changed.

I'll keep on testing 'til I get 0 for Ammonia before adding the discus. But how about Nitrate? Is 10ppm a good figure? Can you have too much nitrate in there?

[Carol_Roberts]

NitrAte is easily removed with water changes. Mine is always below 5

[marcw]

Great! 0 Ammonia, 0 NitrIte, and <5 shall be my target.

And after I add fish, Ammonia's going to rise again, isn't it? (Is that the Ammonia spike?). If so, how do you deal with that? (I'm sure that's been asked a million times before and I SHOULD go and do a search on it, shouldn't I?)

If Ammonia is the by-product of waste, and NitrIte the by-product of Ammonia. why aren't THEY also removed easily by water changes? Would have thought they'd be dilluted like NitrAte obviously is.