Trying to figure out what kind of discus I like.

[SaddlebredLady]

a couple questions, so background first. Over the next 2-3 months I'd like to switch my 125g lightly planted angel tank into a discus tank. I'd like to end up with 10-11 discus in the 125g, and I would like to have some live plants but mostly some drift wood with java moss or star moss, java vern, maybe a few other low light plants, and some floating plants, as wll as white sand bottom with rocks, etc. I plan to buy the 10-11 juviesin a month or so and keep them in a 40g BB tank. I'd like to take this month or two of time to do more research and learn what varieties I like best, what to look for, who to buy from, etc. I would ideally like to have the discus pair up, so the types I choose need to be able to cross and not get a muddled mess of color in the offspring. They should also be fish that are nice enough to reproduce and have good chance at quality offspring.

So, my questions are: are there different colors that dont do well crossing together? Are there colors that are helped by certain crosses or is it always a blue turquoise x blue turquoise? How do you judge the quality of the color patterns? I have read a lot about the shape desired, but is it the actual body of a fish that should be round, or is it the fins and fish, or ideally both should create a perfect circle? Should the tail be inside or outside of the circle? (if that makes sense?) I've seen some fish whose body wasn't completely round, but when you add in the fins it became closer to round. I like the red and blue turquoise, as well as all the blue shades, the panage eruptions (sorry i forgot how to spell it) and the violet reflections. Do the blue diamonds get darker with age? same thing with the violet reflections? I've seen pictures of deep blu and deep purple discus that are gorgeous, but I don't know what they are. The blue diamonds look to have white bodies and blue fins, does that change with age?

And finally, what color/variety is this fish?: http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_700/1341838751l36E7y.jpg

Amd THANK YOU for any and all help! I'm pretty excited for my new challenge in the aquarium hobby

[ROOK45]

The pic you posted is a blue diamond. The body of the fish should be round.
That's all the questions I feel comfortable answering. There are threads that will answer all your questions. Look for the thread with the NADA winners listed, it'll show you what a show quality fish is.
Welcome to simply discus

[SaddlebredLady]

Thanks so much, I will go look! I love the threads with pictures. :) I don't "have to" breed, but I think it would be wonderful to have the option of that happening if I do a good job growing them out. I've bought fish that did not make a good cross color wise with much dissapointment when they became adults and paired up with one they shouldn't have. I have 4 pairs of angels, only 1 is an ideal pair as far as color goes... Go figure.
Thanks!

[pastry]

I agree with Rook. Also you'll see it's highly recommended the first go 'round with discus to start off with bare bottom if you want to better your chances with growing them out. Then if you still want the plants, substrate, and driftwood then go for it. Definitely keep reading on here. I have some that I'm growing out in my planted tank but I pretty sure they'd be bigger by now if they were in a bare bottom for the grow out stage. I was always able to grow everything else out to normal size (or bigger) in a planted tank but discus seem (IME) to need more. Not saying they're fragile, but definitely need more WC's than the average fish if you want good growth and health out of them. Bare bottom helps for the early stages. There's a guy (Bill) who's recent threads show some of his broods he's raised recently and he has them in bare bottom. Some of my current fish were around the same time as his and his look to be bigger than mine. Yeah, genetics play a part in growth but you can search and find more broods raised in bb's that would be a little bigger than mine at the same periods. Food for thought! Either way you go, once you get going then definitely posts some pics!

[White Worm]

Discus should be round bodied when they hit adulthood around 8 months to a year old. Their fins should also be proportioned that add to the round look. Colors and names are numerous and you are better off getting your stock from the sponsors here. Get pictures of the actual fish you want to buy before you buy them. Kenny always takes pictures of the actual discus and you can pick the ones you like for shape and color. Don't get wrapped around names because they will all have unique designs and color. Go with red, blue, yellow, white, spots, etc. Figure out the color you want and then look through sponsor pictures to see what you like.

[Skip]

Welcome!

Word of advice. no matter what fish you get. . You will always want discus in someone else's tank!

[rcomeau]

I recently converted my 50g tank to bare bottom about two months ago then added 2 discus about three weeks ago. I am looking to buy 4 more discus and have the same questions as your questions. The Stendker small to big pictures (http://www.diskuszucht-stendker.de/gb/308,0,colour-shades,index,0.html) are helpful. I am interested in seeing answers to your questions because I cannot decide if I want fish that are matched with hopes of breeding more of the same great color or a variety of colors to enjoy the variety.

[SaddlebredLady]

I agree with Rook. Also you'll see it's highly recommended the first go 'round with discus to start off with bare bottom if you want to better your chances with growing them out. Then if you still want the plants, substrate, and driftwood then go for it. Definitely keep reading on here. I have some that I'm growing out in my planted tank but I pretty sure they'd be bigger by now if they were in a bare bottom for the grow out stage. I was always able to grow everything else out to normal size (or bigger) in a planted tank but discus seem (IME) to need more. Not saying they're fragile, but definitely need more WC's than the average fish if you want good growth and health out of them. Bare bottom helps for the early stages. There's a guy (Bill) who's recent threads show some of his broods he's raised recently and he has them in bare bottom. Some of my current fish were around the same time as his and his look to be bigger than mine. Yeah, genetics play a part in growth but you can search and find more broods raised in bb's that would be a little bigger than mine at the same periods. Food for thought! Either way you go, once you get going then definitely posts some pics!

Yes, as my post said, I plan to grow them out in a bare bottom 40g, eventually they will be big enough that some will have to leave the 40g, but I will figure that out when I get there.... I have other tanks. Thanks so much for the heads up. I think the 3rd thread I read was a super long argument about this very topic, LOL, it convinced me to go BB as I don't want the issues and work of trying to go with a planted grow out. (it is shocking as i was just told nitrates cause the stunting, and a heavily planted tank should have low nitrates due to the plants using them..... no?)

[SaddlebredLady]

Thanks for the replies and warm welcome! I am currently reading the genetics thread... you know how they say "there are people who don't know that they don't know, people that think they know but don't know, and then people that know they don't know"..... Well... i've breen reading and reading, and i've decided I know there is so much i don't know that I don't know I don't know it... if that makes any sense at all! I think I will love these fish! I love mental challenges, tinkering with things, high maintenance type critters (I showed poodles for heavens sakes).... Ok, off for more reading! I do live within an hour or two of Central Ohio Discus (mike I think?) and so it makes sense to me to at least try to buy there for my first batch. I would love to meet a pro and pick their brain, and well, I have one in my state! LOL.

[SaddlebredLady]

are Violet Reflections the same thing as Reflection D?

[Skip]

are Violet Reflections the same thing as Reflection D?

Labels are labels.
Some breeders. Just make up names

[lipadj46]

If you have a bit of money to spend NJ discus is selling Wayne Ng discus and they have several blue varieties. About the best blue discus you can buy. They have some pics of the adults to see what they will look like.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?236-New-Jersey-Discus-(Rod-Clement-and-Robert-Balogh)-New-Jersey

[Jeff O]

are Violet Reflections the same thing as Reflection D?

To answer your question, yes. There genetic makeup is very simular and in some cases the same. However, the quality of a Wayne NG Violet Reflection compared to MOST (not all) Reflection D's is far superior. All Wayne NG discus are A-Show grade discus.
-Jeff

[Joe]

Welcome!

"Word of advice. no matter what fish you get. . You will always want discus in someone else's tank! "

Very well said!!! So True!!

Joe

[Jeff O]

77766

Heres a nice example of blue diamond
(courtesy of Hai Koon)

[pcdebb]

Welcome!

Word of advice. no matter what fish you get. . You will always want discus in someone else's tank!

True on every level lol


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[cjr8420]

Labels are labels.
Some breeders. Just make up namesyep they are both just a breeders version of a blue colbalt


All Wayne NG discus are A-Show grade discus.
-Jeff no they are not.only if u buy a wayne ng show fish are they show fish.very hard to raise a show fish.most sold at small size never make it.and depending on the show most are highbody so thats not always a good thing.but they do look good

[DonMD]

I do live within an hour or two of Central Ohio Discus (mike I think?) and so it makes sense to me to at least try to buy there for my first batch. I would love to meet a pro and pick their brain, and well, I have one in my l! LOL.

That is a very excellent idea. Mike shows his fish at shows, and so as a poodle show person, you'll appreciate that he has high quality animals. And it's always best to go and see the actual fish you want to buy, talk with the seller, ask lots of questions, get good advice, etc. Also, even though it's true that fish can be shipped anywhere with minimal problems, local pickup always is best and least stressful for the fish. Good luck.

[SaddlebredLady]

WOW ! Thanks for the info everyone!!!! I don't need "show fish", but I'd like to have stock that is a good start towards it, mainly because I love quality. Plus, I show horses and dogs, it just follows I'd show fish eventually! LOL!

ETA boy did I mis-read what you said, Don in Virginia! OOPS lol. :)

[Skip]

WOW ! Thanks for the info everyone!!!! And Mike shows poodles???? I love him! LOL. I showed and bred Poodles when i was younger, worked for one of the best breeders in the country, OoOH, I'm so excited to meet him now! LOL. I don't need "show fish", but I'd like to have stock that is a good start towards it, mainly because I love quality. Plus, I show horses and dogs, it just follows I'd show fish eventually! LOL!

June 2014 Austin Texas at NADA is ur chance

[SaddlebredLady]

One more question: ok, I'm worried about when they grow up and pair up. i guess i could force them to pair up with who I want them to, but I think it is gorgeous when it just happens on its own. So, if I get 3 blue turquoise, 3 Reflection Ds, 3 Blue Diamonds, and 1 Rafflasia (sorry I butched the spelling), and 1 yellow?, would the offspring be desirable if they chose to cross? (excluding the rafflesisa one... since that is PB based right? it would cause peppering?, but the other ones?) I get Blue Diamonds are recessive, but if they cross with a Reflection D would that be a bad thing/people wouldn't want the resulting fry, or would be ok so long as the know that they carry the BD gene? if the Reflection D and the Yellow cross, would that also be a pointless cross? maybe this should go in the genetics section. i spent hours last night on the genetics thread and I took genetics in college, thought I had a fair grasp on it.... Fish are way harder that equine, that's for sure. So I have basic genetic principles down, but it seems like fish have more loci, and also more than 2 variants for each loci, maybe I'm wrong?

[SaddlebredLady]

How do people fly fish?? do you take them as a carry on? I guess you could fed ex them like we do when we buy/sell, but I think i would worry about my prized show fish.....?

[Skip]

Sbl
No u need to start different thread. .

Do u breed fish of same strain aka line breeding..
Easiest. . And u have idea of offspring phenotype..
Or

Breed different lines

..

I say do the first choice if u jus want to breed..

Do second if u have a long term goal for a chacteristic..
Remember it takes almost year for fish to develop sexually.. so it may take a lot if time before u get to 3rd or 4th generation to see results. .

[Jeff O]

yep they are both just a breeders version of a blue colbalt

no they are not.only if u buy a wayne ng show fish are they show fish.very hard to raise a show fish.most sold at small size never make it.and depending on the show most are highbody so thats not always a good thing.but they do look good

Thats not what I was saying. The fish that wayne Ng distributes are not under A Grade, whats above A grade? Show grade. If you buy a 2' wayne Ng discus there is a chance it will grow out to be a show grade discus.
-Jeff

[Skip]

How do people fly fish?? do you take them as a carry on? I guess you could fed ex them like we do when we buy/sell, but I think i would worry about my prized show fish.....?

All show fish are shipped in by flights.
They recover pretty fast..

[SaddlebredLady]

77766

Heres a nice example of blue diamond
(courtesy of Hai Koon)

Pretty pretty, and i love the red eyes. are those considered red enough or should they be brighter red?

[cjr8420]

i would stick to the blues a raffleasia or the yellow would probably not be a good cross most yellow/gold have pb genes to.fish get shipped fedex or airport to airport.the 2nd is better if u decide to have them shipped.

[SaddlebredLady]

thanks so much for all the info, much to think about!!!! and I breed horses, we have to wait 3 years (or should) before they are breedable and they only have one baby a year... talk about slow progress... dogs were easier. :) and culling has a different meaning.....

Edited for typos OOPS