Best way on aging water

[pcdebb]

Hello all,

I would like to know the best process of aging my water for water changes. Or is there nothing special? I currently have a ro/di system that stores water in a 35 gallon brute bucket and I dispense water as needed. Is it as simple as putting water in 5 gallon buckets for 24 hours with airstone and heater?

I'm sorry if I sound silly, just want to be correct.


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[Jeff O]

Most of use a 55 gal water drum or a 55 gal garbage can with an air-stone and a heater. Nothing special at all.
-Jeff

[Altum Nut]

Hello all,

I would like to know the best process of aging my water for water changes. Or is there nothing special? I currently have a ro/di system that stores water in a 35 gallon brute bucket and I dispense water as needed. Is it as simple as putting water in 5 gallon buckets for 24 hours with airstone and heater?

I'm sorry if I sound silly, just want to be correct.


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Never a silly question...
Just want to know why your running R/O-Di for water changes unless your breeding. Fill your 35g brute bucket with tap water and age as Jeff mentioned. Add your declor. prime or safe directly to tank when adding your aged water.

...Ralph

[Poco]

If you have a spare tank you can also use that for aging. Any food grade container with a heater and airstone is all you need. You will need a pump to transfer water to the fish tank.

[Bill63SG]

Most of use a 55 gal water drum or a 55 gal garbage can with an air-stone and a heater. Nothing special at all.
-Jeff


Never a silly question...
Just want to know why your running R/O-Di for water changes unless your breeding. Fill your 35g brute bucket with tap water and age as Jeff mentioned. Add your declor. prime or safe directly to tank when adding your aged water.

...Ralph

+1,easy peasy.

[DiscusBR]

your declor. prime or safe directly to tank when adding your aged water.

...Ralph

Why not add the declor (I use Prime) to the storage barrel right before the WC? That is the way I do it. I find it safer than adding to the tank.

[Jeff O]

Why not add the declor (I use Prime) to the storage barrel right before the WC? That is the way I do it. I find it safer than adding to the tank.

Its completely safe to add the prime directly to the tank. Theres nothing wrong with adding it to the storage barrel BEFORE you add it to the tank, however if you put it in the water before its aged then the prime will wear off in the 24 hours of aging.
-Jeff

[pcdebb]

I am on well water here and it's full of stuff. I changed my sediment filter 3 days ago and it's brown already. Constant trips refilling jugs was too much. I'm all for improving my setup.


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[SMB2]

however if you put it in the water before its aged then the prime will wear off in the 24 hours of aging.
Not sure if I am reading this correctly. Regardless of when you add the Prime (etc) doesn't it bind Chlorine/Chloramine ? How does it wear off?

I think the aging process can be sped up a bit by "super agitating" the water. I use an old pond pump in the barrel. Using a PH probe the PH seems to stabilize faster.

[Jeff O]

Not sure if I am reading this correctly. Regardless of when you add the Prime (etc) doesn't it bind Chlorine/Chloramine ? How does it wear off?

I think the aging process can be sped up a bit by "super agitating" the water. I use an old pond pump in the barrel. Using a PH probe the PH seems to stabilize faster.

Prime is only active for 24 hours :)

[shawnhu]

Oh boy.

Folks, please read up what prime does, and how long.

I would recommend not treating your aging tank. You want it to be fighting pathogens as long as possible, up to the point right before it enters your aquarium. Use the chlorine and/or chloramines to your advantage.

When ready to fill, add as necessary directly to tank and fill.

The aging process is to simply degas, aerate, and adjust temperature to stable conditions.

[pcdebb]

I prefer not to use Prime or any other Seachem products. I've had some bad results with it in the past. I add stress coat to the tank after adding the water.


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[Poco]

I will suggest to add prime/safe to the tank and not to the aging barrel. The main reason to age water is to have a stable pH rest are secondary benefits.

[Jeff O]

I will suggest to add prime/safe to the tank and not to the aging barrel. The main reason to age water is to have a stable pH rest are secondary benefits.

+1

[Altum Nut]

Prime is only active for 24 hours :)

+1 and may extend to 48 hrs


I will suggest to add prime/safe to the tank and not to the aging barrel. The main reason to age water is to have a stable pH rest are secondary benefits.

+2
Also want to add that many find adding prime / safe to storage barrels build up a film on inside walls that often need cleaning. I'd rather wipe tank wall that I normally do once a week than storage barrel.

...Ralph

[SMB2]

So if Prime only acts to bind chlorine products for 24 hours, what is happening in the main tank after 24 hours that is any different from the aging barrel? What am I missing here?

[Kal-El]

I have done it both way with no issue. Only thing difference is that some brown film gets build up in the aging container and you'll need to clean it. I prefer just adding my safe directly to the tank before filling the tank with the age water. This way I don't have to clean the aging container without adding prime or safe to the aging container.

[cjr8420]

So if Prime only acts to bind chlorine products for 24 hours, what is happening in the main tank after 24 hours that is any different from the aging barrel? What am I missing here?ive never read anywhere actual time it lasts. the cholorine binding is permanent.but for the ammonia from chloramine doesnt stay binded permanently in ur cycled tank ur bio eats it up while binded.no bio in ur barrel to get rid of the binded ammonia so it just sits until the binding wears off

[fisher]

treat your water with activated carbon filter first and aging water for 24 hour ....... use heater to rise aging water temperature

[DiscusBR]

When adding safe or prime directly to the tank before filling it with aged water, you are supposed to add the amount that corresponds to the tank's total volume. The directions for Prime state: "Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons) ... May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume." So, when adding Prime directly to the tank during, say, 50% WCs, you will be speding the double of the amount of Prime. For me it makes sense to treat only the aging barrel.

The only problem with doing this way is, as has been noted, a brown film accumulates in the barrel with time. However, it is easy to clean it. I continue to think that adding Prime to the aging barrel just before the WC is the best way to go.

[Poco]

Mauro, It also states if your tank temp is 86F use half the amount. The company will always play it safe with regards to the quantity to use.

[DiscusBR]

Mauro, It also states if your tank temp is 86F use half the amount. The company will always play it safe with regards to the quantity to use.

I also want to play it safe :)

[shawnhu]

I also want to play it safe :)

Do you always do 100% water changes?

[Altum Nut]

I am on well water here and it's full of stuff. I changed my sediment filter 3 days ago and it's brown already. Constant trips refilling jugs was too much. I'm all for improving my setup.


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Before we run off track...it's fair to say everyone has thier methods that seem to work for them.
The well water seems to be the issue you should really deal with first.

...Ralph

[cjr8420]

Before we run off track...it's fair to say everyone has thier methods that seem to work for them.
The well water seems to be the issue you should really deal with first.

...Ralph
thats is the reason for ro/di


Hello all,

I would like to know the best process of aging my water for water changes. Or is there nothing special? I currently have a ro/di system that stores water in a 35 gallon brute bucket and I dispense water as needed. Is it as simple as putting water in 5 gallon buckets for 24 hours with airstone and heater?

I'm sorry if I sound silly, just want to be correct.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalku could just heat an age ur ro storage barrel then if ur using buckets just scoop treat and pour

[DiscusBR]

Do you always do 100% water changes?

:confused:

[shawnhu]

:confused:

Let me try to explain.

Prime says to treat the entire volume of water for the tank, and not for how much water is being replaced. So for a 100 gallon tank, you treat 100 gallons.

So when you treat your storage container, say a 1000 gallon storage tank, you treat 1000 gallons with prime.

Now when you do a 50% water change, you're replacing 50 gallons of water with 50 gallons of treated eater from your 1000 gallon storage tank. What just happened here is this 100 gallon tank was treated with 50% of the necessary amount of prime. So unless you are changing 100% water every time, you may not be playing it safe at all.

Hope this helps.

[Larry Bugg]

Actually Seachem is very specific about this. The dose they give is for "NEW" water. If adding the prime to the water container and not the tank, you add the dose for the amount of water in the container. If dosing the tank directly then you dose for the volume in the entire tank. You are safe dosing the storage container and then doing whatever % water change you want.

Use 1 capful (5 mL) for each 200 L (50 gallons*) of new water. This removes approximately 1 mg/L ammonia, 4 mg/L chloramine, or 5 mg/L chlorine. For smaller doses, please note each cap thread is approx. 1 mL. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If adding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is > 30 °C (86 °F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

[pcdebb]

thats is the reason for ro/di

u could just heat an age ur ro storage barrel then if ur using buckets just scoop treat and pour

I don't do anything with the storage barrel water because I also fill my drinking water jugs with it as well.

FWIW I sometimes add my dechlor to the bucket, sometimes I add it to the tank after the water change. Just depends on what my brain is doing at that moment :)


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[aalbina]

I am on well water here and it's full of stuff. I changed my sediment filter 3 days ago and it's brown already...

I am also on well water and filter using an HMA setup rather that RO/DI (HMA has no waste water). If you're on well water you probably don't need prime/safe as many here are recommending. There is usually no chlorine in well water, although in some areas there can be trace amounts dependent on the water source but it is pretty unusual. A simple test kit will answer that for you.

If you are like me - you are probably more concerned with heavy metals like iron and manganese. That's what I filter out - along with the sediment to which you refer. I still treat with Safe to bind any heavy metals that made it through my filtration. I run the output of the HMA filter into a food grade storage barrel and heat and aerate it for at least 24 hours. I have found that, with my well water, the pH rises 1 point on the pH scale over a 24 hour period. That's too much of a change in pH for discus (IMO) (remember pH is a logarithmic scale so 1 point is equivalent to 10 times the acidity or alkalinity - 7.1 to 8.1 is a significant shift in pH). Freshwater fish are osmoregulators and much of their metabolic (energy) expenditure is dedicated to keeping their system balanced with respect to their internal cellular environment needed to support hydration and well ... life... given their external environment (your water). Changing the water's pH requires constant internal adjustment - and more energy. Sapping that energy can lead to a weak immune system and we all know what that means...

Aging your RO/DI filtered well water will help keep the pH closer to the pH in your tank, making the pH environment more stable and your fish healthier. If you add Safe or Prime or any water conditioner to your aging barrel, trash can, spare tank (whatever) - it isn't going to cause any more of slime than if you don't treat. Chlorine keeps the slime down and you probably don't have chlorine in your well water - so it doesn't matter when you treat the water. Just follow the instructions on your chosen treatment product. I get a little slime in my aging barrel - I don't sweat it anymore. I wipe it our periodically or add bleach to my holding barrel every now and then and it's gone.

Hope that helps from one well water user to another.

Adam

[pcdebb]

Ok, I've seen it mentioned too many times.....what is this "safe" that you all reference?

I think what I will do is probably add a smaller holding bucket/barrel for aging water. I have plenty of 5 gallon buckets to do it with now but it may be easier to have the bucket and just have the setup with the airstone and heater in it and I can just do what I have to do when it's time.

[shawnhu]

Ok, I've seen it mentioned too many times.....what is this "safe" that you all reference?

I think what I will do is probably add a smaller holding bucket/barrel for aging water. I have plenty of 5 gallon buckets to do it with now but it may be easier to have the bucket and just have the setup with the airstone and heater in it and I can just do what I have to do when it's time.

That's what us city folk do since we can't have 55 gal containers in our apartments.

SeaChem Safe is a concentrated form of Prime. So concentrated that it's in powder form.

[pcdebb]

ahhh ok :)

[pcdebb]

so lemme ask this. the water that is stored in my brute barrel, is that not aged already? or is the airstone and heat is what "ages" it? I've been doing a little reading around the forums and was concerned about pH fluctuations of non-aged water.

[shawnhu]

Water from the tap is considered not aged. Water that sits in a holding container for X hours is considered aged. Some do 24 hrs, some more and some less.

You can put an airstone and a heater to help as well.

Water from the tap generally has a lot of dissolved gasses such as CO2 that will lower the ph. Once those gasses are allowed to escape through the aging process, ph will rise and stabilize.

The idea is to give your fish a stable water change each time. How would you like it if you had to change by the open window in the winter, every morning? Just an analogy.

[pcdebb]

I was just asking, because once I dispense what water I need, it fills back up. and it's sitting until I need it again. I may put an airstone in it but don't want to heat it (the brute bucket) because as I said, I use this for my drinking water machine as well. I can heat it once I've dispense out of the brute bucket. This bucket fills up directly from the ro/di unit.

[shawnhu]

I just reread your original post and saw that you have an RO system and that you use this container for drinking water as well.

I would not heat that water or bother to aerate it.

[cjr8420]

just get another barrel plumb it in to the other one so u got two. one for drinking one for the fish and the fish one can have heater and air.i dont agree that ageing without air will off gas it .

[shawnhu]

Two containers is a great idea.

[pcdebb]

Makes sense. i'll see how I can set this up. I'm turning into Bob The Builder's sister these days lol

[SMB2]

but don't want to heat it (the brute bucket) because as I said, I use this for my drinking water machine as well

Another option is to have a separate pump and line from the barrel to the tank, and use an in-line heater. Wouldn't need a second barrel, but flow rate to the tank would be slower to allow the heater time to work.
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/695/Aquarium-Heaters

[Wjmulder]

http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/695/Aquarium-Heaters[/QUOTE]

That heater is not designed to do what you're proposing, only a whole house tankless heater will perform as you suggest.

[SMB2]

Thanks Bill, have only seen them, never tried one. There was a discussion here somewhere about a small Tankless heater for a garage water holding system.

[Wjmulder]

I just hooked up a Hydor inline heater and it's great, but it works no faster than a standard in tank heater...took about 10 hours to raise the temp in my 75 gallon from 63f to 82f. I still think the best option is a separate barrel for water changes with a heater in the bottom. I wrapped my Brute with a water heater blanket and set it on a foam base, it's very efficient, 100 watt jager in a 44 gallon drum, cheap. Make sure you have a lid to help hold temps and keep out the dog hair lol!

[pcdebb]

Make sure you have a lid to help hold temps and keep out the dog hair lol!
lol my issue is cat hair. my barrel is in the laundry room and that's off limits to kitty.

[rcomeau]

I am thinking that there is a benefit to adding Prime before aging the water. I use Prime because I have municipal water with chloramine in it. It seems that use of Prime before aging will prepare the water for more effective de-gassing. What is wrong with that rationale based on this info?:


I've never read anywhere actual time it lasts. The cholorine binding is permanent but for the ammonia from chloramine doesn't stay binded permanently in your cycled tank your bio eats it up while binded. No bio in your barrel to get rid of the binded ammonia so it just sits until the binding wears off.



Water from the tap generally has a lot of dissolved gasses such as CO2 that will lower the ph. Once those gasses are allowed to escape through the aging process, ph will rise and stabilize.



Toxic dissolved chlorine gas (Cl2) is converted into non-toxic chloride ions (Cl-). The reduction process also breaks the bonds between chlorine and nitrogen atoms in the chloramine molecule (NH2Cl), freeing the chlorine atoms and replacing them with hydrogen (H) to create ammonia (NH3).


I am thinking that it is better to have free chlorine and nitrogen atoms available to get de-gassed during aging. Is it best to get that done in the aging barrel rather than the tank?

Here is my rational to address the disadvantages:

I would recommend not treating your aging tank. You want it to be fighting pathogens as long as possible, up to the point right before it enters your aquarium. Use the chlorine and/or chloramines to your advantage.
The purpose of aging is to change the water with chlorine and/or chloramines to water ready for the tank. I age for 2 days. The water starts with chlorine and chloramines with pathogens at a level safe for drinking. Unlike the tank, Pathogens in the barrel get dosed with chlorine and chloramines every 2 days. How can pathogens grow in the barrel during that aging that are any worse than how they can grow in the fish tank?


Also want to add that many find adding prime / safe to storage barrels build up a film on inside walls that often need cleaning. I'd rather wipe tank wall that I normally do once a week than storage barrel.
I would rather clean the storage barrel. Unlike the tank, I can rince it with chlorinated water and I would rather keep the film (what ever it is) out of the tank.

ps. I also heat the aged water by adding un-aged water from the hot water heater just before adding it to the tank. That water also gets a proportional amount of Prime added to it. That process uses the aging time to allow the aging water to rise to room temperature then uses the efficiency of the hot water heater to raise it to tank temp. I might change to use of a heater in the barrel if I find that it will help match the PH of the new water to the tank water.

[bobdon]

on well water its almost distilled water

[cjr8420]

I am thinking that it is better to have free chlorine and nitrogen atoms available to get de-gassed during aging. Is it best to get that done in the aging barrel rather than the tank? the amont of chlorine degassing is minimal no issue at all if using a dechlor




The purpose of aging is to change the water with chlorine and/or chloramines to water ready for the tank. I age for 2 days. The water starts with chlorine and chloramines with pathogens at a level safe for drinking. Unlike the tank, Pathogens in the barrel get dosed with chlorine and chloramines every 2 days. How can pathogens grow in the barrel during that aging that are any worse than how they can grow in the fish tank? no the purpose of ageing is to degas the c02 and stablize the ph.chloramine is chlorine bonded with ammonia.new dechlors break the bond then bind whats left over.ageing a few days will break the bond but u cant age out the ammonia left over from chloramine.for the pathogens that im not sure are pathogens what ever the slime is starts growing then gets killed starts growing then gets killed and u end up with a grey film



I would rather clean the storage barrel. Unlike the tank, I can rince it with chlorinated water and I would rather keep the film (what ever it is) out of the tank.dont treat with dechlor until right b4 a change then that film is not an issue


ps. I also heat the aged water by adding un-aged water from the hot water heater just before adding it to the tank. That water also gets a proportional amount of Prime added to it. That process uses the aging time to allow the aging water to rise to room temperature then uses the efficiency of the hot water heater to raise it to tank temp. I might change to use of a heater in the barrel if I find that it will help match the PH of the new water to the tank water. ur are just wasting that first dose of prime
add air it will help match the ph of the tank faster unless the tank ph is lower due to the N cycle in a dirty planted substrate. hths

[Wjmulder]

dont treat with dechlor until right b4 a change then that film is not an issue



I was treating with prime just before turning on the water change pump and still got the film in the barrel.

[Rudustin]

I thought we could get an answer to an important question but for a beginner it is really difficult not to have a definitive answer. I guess we have to just wing it but it would be terrible for us newbies to make a mistake and hurt our fish. I know this is an old thread but I was directed to this thread to find an answer. It seems that so many people are not in agreement.

[glus]

I see many people talk about aging water. Well, I started aging my water in a blue brute container. I am not sure if that's related but 4 out of my 6 fish got so sick I am not sure if they will survive. I was adding prime to the barrel after it was filled up with new water. Now one member advised me to change that barrel with food-grade barrel, which I did yesterday. I was not aware that some barrels should not be used. Has anyone experienced something similar? Prior to aging, by fish were fine.

J