Carbon or No Carbon?

[dbrodeur]

Hello everybody, I am definitely a newbie with keeping and caring for discus, but I am ready to give it a shot. I am in the process of cycling (4 days now) my BB 40g that I'll be using as a grow out tank. I'm using a Hydro Sponge#4 and a pre-filter Max3 along with Marineland HOB. The pre-filter is hooked up to Emperor 400. Here's where I got confused. I've read that carbon can have an adverse effects on the health/well being of your discus. If that's the case should I removed the filter carts from the Emperor? Thank you in advance for your valuable advice.

[Poco]

You dont really need carbon. it is mainly used to remove meds after a treatment.

[Keith Perkins]

You dont really need carbon. it is mainly used to remove meds after a treatment.

+1 This ones been discussed a bunch of times, and the answer always comes out the same.

[dbrodeur]

Thank you both for your quick response. I'll removed the filter carts.

[GrayLadyPat]

Also, keep an eye on your water source...

If your wet kids experience issues immediately AFTER a water change, there may be something in your water supply that might be affecting them. In my case, the city uses some annoying disinfectant processes that leave additives in the water. They can only be removed by carbon, so I have to run the filters with carbon all the time. If you end up running carbon in your filters, remember to change it regularly.

There are some concerns about leeching things back into the water, but I think changing the carbon relatively often can prevent this. There is also some thought that carbon may lead to increased chances of HITH but again, I think it has to do with leaving the carbon for long periods of time before changing for new carbon.

Just my two cents worth...

[Keith Perkins]

Also, keep an eye on your water source...

If your wet kids experience issues immediately AFTER a water change, there may be something in your water supply that might be affecting them. In my case, the city uses some annoying disinfectant processes that leave additives in the water. They can only be removed by carbon, so I have to run the filters with carbon all the time. If you end up running carbon in your filters, remember to change it regularly.

There are some concerns about leeching things back into the water, but I think changing the carbon relatively often can prevent this. There is also some thought that carbon may lead to increased chances of HITH but again, I think it has to do with leaving the carbon for long periods of time before changing for new carbon.

Just my two cents worth...


Running yout tap through a two canister unit with a 5 micron prefilter and one of these http://www.home-water-purifiers-and-filters.com/pentek-cbr2.php in the second canister will give you an easier and more thorough solution for "scrubbing" your water than a carbon cartridge.

[100fuegos]

Plus you do not need to cycle if you do the recommended WC needed for a good growth rate and good health of your fish.

[pcsb23]

Also, keep an eye on your water source...

If your wet kids experience issues immediately AFTER a water change, there may be something in your water supply that might be affecting them. In my case, the city uses some annoying disinfectant processes that leave additives in the water. They can only be removed by carbon, so I have to run the filters with carbon all the time. If you end up running carbon in your filters, remember to change it regularly.

There are some concerns about leeching things back into the water, but I think changing the carbon relatively often can prevent this. There is also some thought that carbon may lead to increased chances of HITH but again, I think it has to do with leaving the carbon for long periods of time before changing for new carbon.

Just my two cents worth...Once activated carbon has adsorbed whatever is there it cannot leech it back into the water. The chemicals are bound to the ac by an ionic bond - the conditions necessary to break this bond cannot exist in an aquarium. As Keith says, using a CBR2 cartridge on your feedwater will strip the nasties out.

[Keith Perkins]

As Keith says, using a CBR2 cartridge on your feedwater will strip the nasties out.

I got that recommendation from a VERY good source Paul. :D

[yogi]

It is not a good idea to continually use carbon in your fish tank's filters. They only put enough in for 2 or 3 days and then it's used up. Here are a few articles on carbon and HLLE.

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08997659.2011.608608

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/activated-carbon-indicted-in-inducing-head-and-lateral-line-erosion

http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/activated-carbon-hlle-smoking-gun-found


Like Keith and Paul have already said. If you are having problems with your source water you should pre filter it before you put it in the fish tanks to make sure it's safe. You can use some of these carbon filters to do it. These are made for single pass use and aren't re circulated like the small amount of carbon you put in a fish tank's filter.

[Chad Hughes]

Paul,

That is one EXPENSIVE filter cartridge!! :angry:

That one sounds nice but before you run out and drop $200, read up on some of the things this cartridge removes. By the way, that little * next to all those great satements means that the claims have NOT been tested and are not NSF certified.

I would test your water for lead. Here's an EPA link (http://water.epa.gov/drink/info/lead/index.cfm)about lead in source water.

I highly suggest knowing what you are trying to eliminate before buying filters to eliminate it. Test, test, test! :D

[Keith Perkins]

$200 is for a dozen of them Chad, I'm using 1 a year.

[Chad Hughes]

I realize that but that's still almost $17 per cartridge. I typically use 1 micron sediment and carbon filters that cost me less than $2 per filter and I use about 12 a year. I use a 6 canister system and I go through a LOT of water. I'm not too sure that this cartridge would be much good after the first 10,000 gallons.

I guess my real point was that you need to know what you are filtering for. I don't have lead in my water and, although I have never had the water analyzed for any kind of cyst, I don't have any other issues with my source that would require the use of a high tech filter such as this one. I supose if I used well water or lived in a rural area that had a dense population of livestock something more advanced would be necessary.

Bottom lihne, test before you filter.


$200 is for a dozen of them Chad, I'm using 1 a year.

[GrayLadyPat]

/snip
Bottom lihne, test before you filter.
/endsnip

Quoted for Truth!

There's a thread somewhere here with my whole issue with the city water department. I plan to install a single pass system similar to what others have described. Until then, carbon in my canisters will have to do. As often as I change them, I don't really fear leeching.

In any case, what works for me is definitely NOT the end all cure all for the problem in this thread. It was merely a suggestion for the OP to check with his water provider concerning the "other" things in his water. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate, pH, and Chlorine are not the only things to worry about in the water.

Sorry for hijacking the thread, by the way.

[pcsb23]

Chad, yep they are not cheap filters , but is $17 really expensive compared to one adult discus? They also remove a lot more than just plain old carbon does ... you pays your money :)

[Chad Hughes]

Chad, yep they are not cheap filters , but is $17 really expensive compared to one adult discus? They also remove a lot more than just plain old carbon does ... you pays your money :)

True Paul, very true. In that perspective it's not a huge cost.

I suppose I am and have been fortunate here in San Diego. Our water certainly isn't perfect but triple carbon block pass filtration is all I do and have had excellent results. I stopped using any type of water conditioner years ago.

Tap water comes from copper lines and is boosted from 60 to 100 PSI. From there 1 micron sediment >> 1 micron extruded carbon block>> 1 micron extruded carbon block >> 1 micron extruded carbon block >> ro membrane >> D I>> DI >> Holding tank.

I use the waste as my tap water in the fish room. :D

[pastry]

Hey, where's the smiley face that's designated for "brainfarts"??? I need that one after reading through this :p

I know someone earlier mentioned that there are plenty of threads on this (not just on SD but on EVERY single fish forum) and while I readily know the consensus (I know, big word for me) is NOT to use carbon unless to remove meds (or make your planted aquarium look really really really clean for a few days like I do once in awhile... did I just say that?) I still find a few people that throw in a few things that are enough to make me double guess whether or not I should run carbon.

For me, I stopped using carbon full time years ago but do it once in awhile to "polish" the water in a planted tank (I don't think I'd need it in a BB). But I guess what I'm asking is (I guess directed at Chad) could you dub it down a little more for a dumb jarhead? Thanks in advance if you can, Chad!

[Chad Hughes]

Elliot,

Jar Heads aren't dumb, they've just had a few head injuries. :D

All joking aside, what is it that you'd like to know? I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Just to be clear, I only use EXTRUDED CARBON BLOCK filters on my source water. The only other reason that I would use carbon is to remove residual ozone on an ozone system. I don't use carbon in any sort of tank fitration system. Filters, IMHO, are for biological and sediment filtration. Sponges and central sumps work best for me.


Hey, where's the smiley face that's designated for "brainfarts"??? I need that one after reading through this :p

I know someone earlier mentioned that there are plenty of threads on this (not just on SD but on EVERY single fish forum) and while I readily know the consensus (I know, big word for me) is NOT to use carbon unless to remove meds (or make your planted aquarium look really really really clean for a few days like I do once in awhile... did I just say that?) I still find a few people that throw in a few things that are enough to make me double guess whether or not I should run carbon.

For me, I stopped using carbon full time years ago but do it once in awhile to "polish" the water in a planted tank (I don't think I'd need it in a BB). But I guess what I'm asking is (I guess directed at Chad) could you dub it down a little more for a dumb jarhead? Thanks in advance if you can, Chad!

[pcsb23]

True Paul, very true. In that perspective it's not a huge cost.

I suppose I am and have been fortunate here in San Diego. Our water certainly isn't perfect but triple carbon block pass filtration is all I do and have had excellent results. I stopped using any type of water conditioner years ago.

Tap water comes from copper lines and is boosted from 60 to 100 PSI. From there 1 micron sediment >> 1 micron extruded carbon block>> 1 micron extruded carbon block >> 1 micron extruded carbon block >> ro membrane >> D I>> DI >> Holding tank.

I use the waste as my tap water in the fish room. :DIf your tap water is basically good then that is often all you need. I'd much rather see people using carbon filtration of their source water and not using stuff like prime etc ... adding more chemicals to the soup almost seems counter productive. The CBR2 filters remove heavy metals as well as chlorine etc, they don't bind it or chelate it like other water conditioners. The result is cleaner water.

[Chad Hughes]

Paul,

I completely agree. Not using any chemicals leaves just water. I like it. :D

How many gallons do you get out of a CBR2?


If your tap water is basically good then that is often all you need. I'd much rather see people using carbon filtration of their source water and not using stuff like prime etc ... adding more chemicals to the soup almost seems counter productive. The CBR2 filters remove heavy metals as well as chlorine etc, they don't bind it or chelate it like other water conditioners. The result is cleaner water.

[pcsb23]

Paul,

I completely agree. Not using any chemicals leaves just water. I like it. :D

How many gallons do you get out of a CBR2?Some info here http://www.pentekfiltration.com/PentairFiles/Pentek%20Filtration/Literature/CBR2%20Series%20Spec%20Sheet%20310080.pdf

[dbrodeur]

Wow! Thank you all for your responses. I am amazed with all the info. I'm using well water and would like to have my water tested someday. Hopefully, I don't have major problems with my well water, pH from the tap is about 7.5--not bad for discus. I can see where carbon filters in a grow out tank can be ineffective b/c of the daily wc. However, what about in a display tank where wc (I'm hoping) are no longer an everyday thing.

[-gb-]

Interesting thread. I also have issues with my municipal water. The CBR2-10R filters look like a great solution. How do you guys use them? I see that the different setups have 1,2 or 3 canisters. What would you place in the other compartments? A second CBR2-10R filter??

[pastry]

dbrod, totally don't mean to hijack thread!

Chad, "injuries to the head" I'll take as a compliment because it means that there's a reason besides born this way (I won't answer follow on questions to that!)

Now, with what you and others already put then I'm actually pretty good-to-go. Minor question is that "ammonia absorbant" 'compound' (usually white in color) and if that is okay to put in the filter for worry-bodies like me once in awhile? I did it the last time I had to take down my tank and set it right back up 2 days later. I still had a good filter media but my back up tank busted abrubtly, had no "old water", and had to set up a 150 with just one canister filter... and have the tank cycled for 48 hours before picking up my first fish from kenny & harry (long story... wasn't prepared for back up tank busting... had to take down 150 for hardwood floors). I ran the cansister, put ammonia absorbing "white stuff" media in there, and some sort of generic bio stuff for tank and then 48 hours later had the fish from kenny/forrest/eric and harry in the tank (and I think I got luuuuuucky); so did that ammonia stuff help or no impact since cansiter media was still good?


Elliot,

Jar Heads aren't dumb, they've just had a few head injuries. :D

All joking aside, what is it that you'd like to know? I'd be happy to answer any questions.

Just to be clear, I only use EXTRUDED CARBON BLOCK filters on my source water. The only other reason that I would use carbon is to remove residual ozone on an ozone system. I don't use carbon in any sort of tank fitration system. Filters, IMHO, are for biological and sediment filtration. Sponges and central sumps work best for me.

[Chad Hughes]

Paul,

Thanks for the data! Good read.


Some info here http://www.pentekfiltration.com/PentairFiles/Pentek%20Filtration/Literature/CBR2%20Series%20Spec%20Sheet%20310080.pdf

Elliot,

You took my comment the right way. :D

In your situation, how often were you changing water in the new discus tank and how much were you changing? Not that I recommend this but I rarely think about cycling a filter, even on a new tank. If you are changing water at 50% + a day youll likely not see your ammonia levels rise too much unless you are feeding an excessive amount. Some don't use filters at all. They change a lot of water.


dbrod, totally don't mean to hijack thread!

Chad, "injuries to the head" I'll take as a compliment because it means that there's a reason besides born this way (I won't answer follow on questions to that!)

Now, with what you and others already put then I'm actually pretty good-to-go. Minor question is that "ammonia absorbant" 'compound' (usually white in color) and if that is okay to put in the filter for worry-bodies like me once in awhile? I did it the last time I had to take down my tank and set it right back up 2 days later. I still had a good filter media but my back up tank busted abrubtly, had no "old water", and had to set up a 150 with just one canister filter... and have the tank cycled for 48 hours before picking up my first fish from kenny & harry (long story... wasn't prepared for back up tank busting... had to take down 150 for hardwood floors). I ran the cansister, put ammonia absorbing "white stuff" media in there, and some sort of generic bio stuff for tank and then 48 hours later had the fish from kenny/forrest/eric and harry in the tank (and I think I got luuuuuucky); so did that ammonia stuff help or no impact since cansiter media was still good?