Think Outside the Box

[KIAWAHKID]

Doesn't seem like much going on in the heckel world, especially successful spawning in the US. I would hope and suggest that those with substantial discus experience try thinking outside the box. Do you really need a 200 gallon aquarium to spawn them or even to keep them healthy? From the video I have seen of the successful spawns overseas, none seem to be in huge tanks. Right now I am keeping 4 blue face Nhumunda heckels in a 29 along with about 10 neons, a few rasbora, 2 albino corys, and 2 red plecos. Temperature is 83 with a pH of about 6.3. Water changes of 25% about once a week. Filtration is a Marineland canister and there is an outside hang on filter where I put almond leaves. It is so enjoyable to look at this tank every evening and just watch the heckels glide about. Of course there is a pecking order but it is by no means resulting in one fish starving to death or permanently "cornered". So stop following the advice of the self ordained "experts", and if you have significant discus experience try doing it your way. Perhaps then someone will come across what we now are missing to get heckels to spawn in our tanks in the US!

[John_Nicholson]

Well the only guy that I know personally has bred heckel to heckel did it in a 40 gallon take. He had the water so soft they he had to come home from work at lunch and do a 50% WC and then do another one that night before going to bed. Otherwise the ph would crash. I suggessted to Al many years ago that if I was trying to do it I would put a group together and setup a tank with an overflow. Get a small 50 gallon a day ro and just let it run 24/7.

-john

[Second Hand Pat]

As someone who have gotten wilds to breed consistantly I will suggest the large tank with low density levels really works for me. So far with two different groups of wilds (Green Tefes and Alenquer based Cuipeuas) I have gotten both groups to spawn repeatedly over a several month timeframe. I currently have a small group of young heckels and will try the same approach with them so who knows ;)

Are you seeing any prespawning behaviors with your blue face Nhumunda? A 29 for four adult discus seems pretty small even by domestic standards but if it seems to be working for ya :)

[William Palumbo]

I have had all my breedings of wild Discus, which were Greens, and Blues, all happen in tanks no larger than 40g. I did have them in bio-tope settings which made spawning easier. BB tanks never worked for me. I'm looking at getting a batch of Heckels soon, and 55g is as big a tank as they will go in. As John said, I feel the key is in the water... very soft water. Diet I feel is also important as well...Bill

[Discus Origins]

Doesn't seem like much going on in the heckel world, especially successful spawning in the US. I would hope and suggest that those with substantial discus experience try thinking outside the box. Do you really need a 200 gallon aquarium to spawn them or even to keep them healthy? From the video I have seen of the successful spawns overseas, none seem to be in huge tanks. Right now I am keeping 4 blue face Nhumunda heckels in a 29 along with about 10 neons, a few rasbora, 2 albino corys, and 2 red plecos. Temperature is 83 with a pH of about 6.3. Water changes of 25% about once a week. Filtration is a Marineland canister and there is an outside hang on filter where I put almond leaves. It is so enjoyable to look at this tank every evening and just watch the heckels glide about. Of course there is a pecking order but it is by no means resulting in one fish starving to death or permanently "cornered". So stop following the advice of the self ordained "experts", and if you have significant discus experience try doing it your way. Perhaps then someone will come across what we now are missing to get heckels to spawn in our tanks in the US!

Good luck on yours, maybe someone can make it happen soon. I have a group of 6 Nhamunda blue Heckels in a 90 biotope tank pure RO ph 4.2 for over a year and a half now. They have displayed pre-spawning behavior several times (bowing, cleaning surface, etc) but never advanced beyond that point.

To my knowledge only the Rio Negro common Heckels have ever been spawned, it would be nice to get the bluer varieties to spawn for someone.

[KIAWAHKID]

I might be mistaken, but from what I have been reading there appears to be more people keeping heckels in "large", over 75 gallon, tanks than smaller ones with a spawning rate of zero. So why not try something different? My belief is also that it is water not tank size that makes a difference but for now I am not going to go "radical" in that regard. We will see. One person 50 or so years ago thought that raising discus fry in little white bowls was possible while others no doubt thought they were a nut case!

[ockyra215]

Not to Hijack the thread But Bill is BACK!!

[KIAWAHKID]

Wonderful news!!! Who is Bill?

[Wes]

Bill Palumbo, post #4

[wannafish]

Question Bill !!

How many Heckels do you plan on putting in the 55 gal.
I have four in a 60 gal with a biotope setting. I don't
plan on any spawning, unless they surprise me. I am
working on my water, but with 75/25 mix of RO and
tap, I still have 6.9 - 7.0 ph. Do you think I should do
water changes with 100 % RO? I have 4 heckels in the
tank and thinking about 2 more.

[William Palumbo]

Hi...I like keeping a min. of 6 fish together in a 55. My tank is a bio-tope as well. A 55g with 6 Unini Heckels. Not sure if you need to keep trying to lower your ph. I have kept Heckels quite well in Chicago tapwater, which has a high ph/TDS. Most if not all Discus can be kept at those parameters. It's only when you want to breed them, you have to lower and adjust everything. Get your water too soft and acidic, and ph crashes can happen if you're not up on wc's. Mine are in Wisconsin tap, much like the same as Chicago water. Shortly I will begin to lower the ph/TDS with RO/DI, only because I would like to TRY and breed them, which will be pretty impossible I know! If you don't plan on trying to spawn them, your water should be fine where it's at...Bill

[Second Hand Pat]

Bill, good luck with your heckels. You have pictures of them? I have Demini Heckels.

[KIAWAHKID]

Here are a few pictures of my blue faced heckels in the 29.

[NanDiscus]

I'm old-school and I like it. One can keep a lion in circus cart for many years, but how much of a lion is a lion like that? I feel the same about small community (!) tanks for discus.
Keeping wilds and breeding wilds are not necessarily the same group of arts.

Mark,
ever tried more frequent w/c's with pure RO, letting the pH rise a little? EC down, pH up. I would give that a try. And LIVE foods. ;)

Nandi

[KIAWAHKID]

You may be "old school" but I am "old timer"! Got my first tropical over 65 years ago and my first discus about 57 years ago. That is what is so great about the fish hobby-we each can go whichever way pleases us in our homes. Sure, if you are new to the hobby follow the advice of the "experts" or you WILL lose fish. But if you have experience, do it your way. You will know and recognize when your fish are not happy!

[plecocicho]

All european heckel breedings in europe in recent 2 years had two things in common: live food and very soft (pure RO) and very acid water (pH lower than 5). Just saying..