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drob85
04-03-2013, 10:29 AM
1) Please Introduce your self and tell us what your experience is with fishkeeping, give us as much information as possible as to how long in the hobby, what you have kept in the past and what you currently are working with. Hi all,

Hello my name is Dustin
I just joined this forum two days ago, I have gone through some stickies here and they are really really helpful, but the more I read the more I realize the more I don’t really know about discus beside the basic of keeping them alive and healthy .

2) If you have no previous experience with keeping discus, have you done any research to properly prepare yourself.

Answer, I have had a tank just with 20 black tetra and a friend gave me 8 discus of different sizes because he got station overseas at first. And was told the basics

3) Describe your tank, its size and dimensions, breeding or display. Include how long it has been setup or if it is still being cycled.

A)48.5" x 18.5" x 21.2" it is a display tank It has been set up for 10 months now.

4) Describe the décor for the tank; type of substrate or bare bottom (BB), whether the tank will be planted or a biotope.

The tank has some décor 4 medium size peaces of drift wood with gravel bottom

5) Describe your water changes planned or practiced, percentage and how often. Include if you age your water and use of tap/RO or mix.

I do 50% R/O water changes every other week

6) Describe the type of filtration planned/used for the tank; sponge, HOB and/or sump. Also include the other equipment you are, or will be, using in your tank, e.g. heater, lighting, etc

. For My filtration I use API NEXX for a 100 Gallons I also have a 100 gallon heater and lighting is aqueon colormax T8

7) If the tank is already setup and running, include the water parameters;

- temp 82

- tank ph 7.0

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading .25

- nitrate reading 7.0

8) Describe your current or planned stocking levels; number/size of discus and number/type of dither fish. Where did you get your discus from or do you have a proposed source for getting your discus?

I have 8 discus 4 are 5-6inchs 4 are 3-4inchs and 20 black tetra 1 bushy noise pleco

9) Describe your planned or existing feeding regimen. Include what and how often you are feeding on a daily basis.

Twice a day frozen blood worms

10) What are your goals in this hobby? For example are you looking to keep discus in a planted community tank, or do you hope to become a hobby breeder of Discus?

Do you want to raise Discus with the hopes of competing in shows? Right now I have them in a somewhat community tank but will like to become a hobby breeder and enter shows if the opportunity and right fish comes by

DiscusLoverJeff
04-03-2013, 10:40 AM
Welcome to SD. Glad you took the challenge of discus keeping.


"Twice a day frozen blood worms"

You need more variety in feeding like Freeze-dried Blackworms, Discus flakes, pellets, beefheart mix. The bloodworms don't really have any nutrional value to speak of to give discus optimal growth and nutrients. You can look at some of the stickies in the Food section.

"50% RO every other week"

You should try and do more frequent water changes if possible. Maybe 50% weekly. Again this help keep them healthy.

Good luck!

strawberryblonde
04-03-2013, 12:19 PM
Hi there and welcome to the forums! =)

Keep reading the stickies and as many other threads as you can in order to get familiar with discus keeping. I read for months when I first joined and learned so much! Oh and ask questions, lots of questions. LOL

I'm gonna give you a crash course in how to keep your discus healthy and how to help the small ones grow, ok? Everyone does it a little bit differently depending on their own water parameters, tank size and personal preferences, but the basics remain the same.

1) Discus don't need RO water and in fact, straight RO isn't healthy for them.
Domestic discus have been raised from fry in mostly tap water here in the US. Tap water provides essential minerals that they need for proper growth and health. So, the first thing to do is to grab a bucket and fill it with your tap water. Test the pH of the bucket of water right after you fill it, then add and air stone and let it sit for 24 hours. Test the pH again. If the pH shifts up or down more than .4, you'll want to age your tap water for 24 yours before doing a water change. If it remains steady, you can use tap water straight from the tap for water changes, though some prefer aged water no matter what. My pH is extremely high and doesn't shift, so I choose to use straight from the tap.

2) Discus need clean water. They are very sensitive to nitrates and other pollutants (phosphates, etc) so if you want your discus to thrive you need to do LARGE regular water changes. For discus under 4" you do them twice a day. For discus 4-5" you do a WC once a day, or every other day if you really want to take a chance on them not growing out properly. I stuck to twice a day till they reached 5" and then once a day (90% change) till they reached 6". After that I reduced it to 90% every other day and still stick to that schedule even though most of my discus are over 8" now.

3) Foods. This is the next most important thing you can do for your discus. They require quality foods that are high in protein. They are carnivores. There are a variety of foods you can offer them such as Discus Flakes, Freeze Dried Blackworms or Bloodworms, frozen beefheart, etc. You can check the foods sections of the forums for ideas on other foods. I stick with the basics. A high quality discus flake food, freeze dried blackworm cubes that I buy from Al - the owner of these forums, and San Fransisco Bay brand frozen Beefheart cubes.

4) Growing discus need to be fed several times per day. To get maximum growth, shoot for 5-6 feedings per day. You can fit them into your daily schedule by feeding flakes first thing in the morning, then feeding a freeze dried blackworm cube before leaving the house. Add an auto feeder to give them one more flake feeding during the day. When you get home at night, give them the beefheart cubes, then wait 2 hours and feed them more beefheart. After they've eaten that, do your water change, then plop in another cube of worms as a bedtime snack.

5) The substrate. It's important to keep it clean. Wastes will build up in and under the sand/gravel and pollute the tank. Be sure to vacuum thoroughly and move the driftwood around to get anything trapped under it.

6) The filter. There's no need to put carbon in the filter system. Discus don't need it. Be sure to rinse out the filter media once a week in a bucket of tank water in order to get any bits of crud out of it. You can also add a pre-filter to the intake tube in order to strain out the bits and keep them from entering the filter. The pre-filter can be rinsed in the sink every day or whenever you see crud building up on it.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the basics. Now to get to the specifics of how to balance the water parameters in your tank without shocking your discus and possibly killing them.

1) Start by doing a 10% WC with your RO water today. Tomorrow, do a 20% WC with the RO. The next day up it to 40%.

2) Fill a bucket with tap water tonight, test the pH and get the air stone running in it. Tomorrow night test the pH. If you find that you need to age your water, fill a tote or water barrel and start it aging. To age it, add an air stone and a heater to bring the water up to the temps in your tank.

3) On the fourth day it's time to start adding tap water to the tank. For now you'll want to use small increments of tap water because it's going to raise the pH. Start with 10% during the water change on the 4th day. Up it to 20% on the fifth day, 30% on the sixth and so on until you reach 90% tap water.

4) Prime or Safe. Most of us here use either Prime or Safe, made by Seachem, to neutralize Chlorine and Chloramine in tap water. It's a lot cheaper than the other popular brands sold in pet stores and a little bit goes a LONG way. If you can't find it at your local fish store, you can buy another brand for now and then order Prime (liquid form) or Safe (powder form) online.

It's a slow method, but it will lessen the possibility of pH shock for your fish.

Once you're on straight tap water just keep up the large water changes daily for now.

Big Important Note:

You said that you have nitrites of .25 in the tank. That's not a good sign. It means that either your tank is still cycling, or you have too much gunk built up in the tank...decaying food, feces, etc. Nitrite poisoning will kill your discus.

If you can get Prime at your local fish store, buy it and add it per the directions in order to neutralize the nitrites in the tank water for now...just until you've gotten enough water changes done on the tank and cleaned the filters and substrate really well. Doing the WC's and cleaning the filters will likely reduce the nitrite reading to zero fairly quickly and then you won't need to add extra Prime to the tank.

I hope all of this helps you get a handle on discus keeping. If anything is confusing, or if you have questions, just ask, ok?

Octavio Salles
04-03-2013, 01:19 PM
I stuck to twice a day till they reached 5" and then once a day (90% change) till they reached 6".

Hi... I have a few doubts, hope you don't mind clarifying them to me. Is it really necessary to do such a huge water change every day?? I mean, isn't getting the tank almost empty of water every day stressful for the fish?

Also, do you just connect a hose to your faucet and put that straight to the tank? If so, how do you handle chlorine etc (Prime or Safe, I suppose) and temperature? Or do you age the water first?

wdeleon01
04-03-2013, 01:29 PM
Welcome To Simply DROB85.


Toni has great for you.

DiscusLoverJeff
04-03-2013, 01:31 PM
Hi... I have a few doubts, hope you don't mind clarifying them to me. Is it really necessary to do such a huge water change every day?? I mean, isn't getting the tank almost empty of water every day stressful for the fish?

Also, do you just connect a hose to your faucet and put that straight to the tank? If so, how do you handle chlorine etc (Prime or Safe, I suppose) and temperature? Or do you age the water first?

Those type of water changes Toni mentioned are good "if" you are able to do so. Not many people have the ability and aged water to do so especially on a 75 gallon tank daily. Although aged water is the preferred method if you can.

If you are going with tap from the faucet to your tank with prime maybe, but the OP (original Poster) stated using RO and we all know you can't produce that amount of water in one day unless you have a huge system.

Toni is right in regards to not needed 100% RO unless breeding though.

chaoslite
04-03-2013, 01:36 PM
Welcome to Simply!!

Mishka

strawberryblonde
04-03-2013, 04:38 PM
Hi... I have a few doubts, hope you don't mind clarifying them to me. Is it really necessary to do such a huge water change every day?? I mean, isn't getting the tank almost empty of water every day stressful for the fish?

Also, do you just connect a hose to your faucet and put that straight to the tank? If so, how do you handle chlorine etc (Prime or Safe, I suppose) and temperature? Or do you age the water first?

Hi Octavio,

If you are dealing with domestic bred discus, then nearly emptying the tank every day, or even twice a day, is totally ok, normal and not stressful for the discus. Domestic discus are raised this way as fry. I don't know of any domestic breeders who don't do at least a 95% WC twice a day on fry and juvie discus. You can find some video's on YouTube and watch the water changes. =)

Is it necessary? That would depend on what your goals are for domestic juvies and sub-adults. If you want good growth and maximum health, you will need to feed high quality protein foods. Most use beefheart a couple of times a day in order to accomplish that. Beefheart fouls water very quickly...therefore the water changes are necessary.

If you are willing to live with smaller discus, possibly stunted discus, or discus who get sick often, then nope, daily water changes aren't necessary when they are young. By young I mean less than 18 months old.

Here's my personal experience:

I started out as a noob with discus keeping 2 years ago. I purchased 5 Stendker discus from Discus Hans, a sponsor here on the forums. After reading about the successes and failures of other people here, I chose to put mine in a 50g tank to grow them out. I fed them at least 6 times a day and changed water twice a day till they were 5". Then I changed water once a day till they were over 6". They continued to grow till well past 18 months of age. My newer Stendkers are now 18 months old and are still growing! My largest 3 discus are 9" males. My smallest 18-24 month old discus are 7" females. My very youngest group is about 10 months old now. The smallest is a 6" female and the largest 2 are 7" males.

So my personal feeling is that the heavy feedings and twice a day water changes work.
---------------------------------------------

Ok, now to answer your question regarding my tap water. I am able to do straight tap water changes because my pH is very high and doesn't shift at all over a 48 hour period (which is the longest that water is EVER in my tank). I use a python hose to deliver the water to the tank. I fill the end of the tube with Poret foam in order to eliminate any micro bubbles. I add Seachem Safe directly to the tank when I start the water flow into the tank. I dose the tank for the full amount of water that it holds, in the case of my larger tank that would be 115 gallons.

In most cases it's better to age water, especially if you have a pH shift as it ages. If you are aging the water you don't have to deal with micro bubbles and only need to add Prime if you detect chlorine in the aged water.

I actually wish that I could age my water, it would make water changes even easier, but the way my house is laid out there is NO place to put an aging barrel. I'm not kidding, I'd have to remove my dining room table and roll the barrel into the dining room each night in order to have space for it. And that wouldn't make my husband very happy. My water sources in my kitchen and laundry room don't have any space near them to store a barrel. =)

Oh, for temperature I have it down to a science on exactly how far to open up the hot water spigot. I also can tell by running the water over my wrist whether it's the right temp for my tank. I'm never off by more than .5 degrees.

a volar
04-03-2013, 05:11 PM
Toni I think you should write a book about discus care. You are so patience giving advice, you like to write (that is very noticeable :)) and had great success with your discus caring techniques.

What do you think?

Elliots
04-03-2013, 05:32 PM
Octavio, in the US a water change device called Python is sold. It is a flexible tube with valves. Mine did not fit my sink so I unscrewed the tip of the sink faucet that has a screen in it. My Python still did not fit so I took the piece of the Python that attached to the faucet and the piece I unscrewed with the screen in it to a hardware store and bought a 1/2 inch piece that allowed me to attach my Python directly to my faucet. It cost less than $1. Pythons come in different lengths and are probably available at your local fish store in Brazil.

drob85
04-03-2013, 06:04 PM
here are pics of my fish would like to know what strain they might be and the sex if possible http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/B72673B0-5F30-4FFF-AAE8-160C5E58AE80-6594-000005AF8AC3744C_zps8e1d403f.jpg

drob85
04-03-2013, 06:07 PM
here are more pics would like to know the strain and sex if possible r http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/46615E43-E28F-4B4D-8A86-9FC289BE4F53-6594-000005AF85B5170B_zps4554d8d2.jpg

drob85
04-03-2013, 06:08 PM
here are more pics would like to know the strain and sex if possible http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/00273DBA-7E99-4348-B24F-67FA2421896C-6594-000005AEC95CE90C_zps9a6caed6.jpg

drob85
04-03-2013, 06:09 PM
here are more pics would like to know the strain and sex if possible http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/C1A0B132-B49A-4A0D-9945-4A003859377F-6594-000005AEB49C78E9_zps2ca08878.jpg

drob85
04-03-2013, 06:09 PM
here are more pics would like to know the strain and sex if possible http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/0705F638-A929-462B-8E59-87A6803FA344-6594-000005AEC53A14D8_zps27c47445.jpg

drob85
04-03-2013, 06:10 PM
here are more pics would like to know the strain and sex if possible http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/AECB56CF-3DEB-44D1-BA2F-DC8A1F3E1C8C-6594-000005AECEA95C31_zps8fba4f83.jpg

drob85
04-03-2013, 06:11 PM
here are more pics would like to know the strain and sex if possible http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/F7636813-66C7-498C-86F3-CD2670EED6F9-6594-000005AEBE07B384_zps88d65975.jpg

0Dgreen
04-03-2013, 06:55 PM
here are pics of my fish would like to know what strain they might be and the sex if possible http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/B72673B0-5F30-4FFF-AAE8-160C5E58AE80-6594-000005AF8AC3744C_zps8e1d403f.jpg

Red Turquoise

0Dgreen
04-03-2013, 06:56 PM
here are more pics would like to know the strain and sex if possible r http://i1323.photobucket.com/albums/u585/Drob85/46615E43-E28F-4B4D-8A86-9FC289BE4F53-6594-000005AF85B5170B_zps4554d8d2.jpg

Dark Angel, or Mercury maybe

strawberryblonde
04-03-2013, 07:13 PM
Strains in order of the pics you posted: These are only best guesses on some of them

1) Red Turquoise
2) Dark Angel
3) Pigeon Blood
4) Cobalt
5) Pigeon Blood
6) Marlboro Red
7) Blue Snakeskin (hard to tell for sure since he is quite dark in the pic)

Some of them are very nice quality discus.

Octavio Salles
04-03-2013, 07:21 PM
Toni thanks a lot for the detailed answer, it has sure made things clearer for me. I too don't have much space for a barrel of aging water, so I'll probably have to do straight from the faucet. Fortunately my pH doesn't seem to drift, it's a constant 7, and the water is very soft. I don't want to breed them so I guess I'll probably be ok with smaller water changes. My tank water pH will probably be a bit lower though, because I want to do a blackwater biotope with some driftwood, dead leaves and maybe some peat in the filter to stain the water. Actually all this I'm asking to decide if I'll go with discus or wild angels... the need for constant water changes can be a problem for me, as I travel a lot.

Octavio Salles
04-03-2013, 07:22 PM
Octavio, in the US a water change device called Python is sold...

Yes we have that product here too, will definetly use it. Thanks!

drob85
04-03-2013, 07:28 PM
thank you have much

strawberryblonde
04-03-2013, 07:36 PM
Toni thanks a lot for the detailed answer, it has sure made things clearer for me. I too don't have much space for a barrel of aging water, so I'll probably have to do straight from the faucet. Fortunately my pH doesn't seem to drift, it's a constant 7, and the water is very soft. I don't want to breed them so I guess I'll probably be ok with smaller water changes. My tank water pH will probably be a bit lower though, because I want to do a blackwater biotope with some driftwood, dead leaves and maybe some peat in the filter to stain the water. Actually all this I'm asking to decide if I'll go with discus or wild angels... the need for constant water changes can be a problem for me, as I travel a lot.

Travel isn't a problem at all. So long as they aren't juvies, you just stop feeding one day before you leave, then do a HUGE WC on the day you leave. They won't starve while you are away and the water quality will be fine since they aren't eating. Discus can go well over a month without eating. We have an awesome expert on these forums named Eddie who left his discus alone for something like 38 days! He came home and they were all fine and healthy.

Octavio Salles
04-03-2013, 07:37 PM
Yes I heard about that... very encouraging :-)

strawberryblonde
04-03-2013, 07:38 PM
thank you have much

Anytime. =)

As soon as you make the changes to your water type and water quality (by upping the number of water changes) you can then start really feeding those pigeon bloods and the Marlboro Red (also a pigeon blood strain). They are starting to look stunted, so it's important to fix the water soon and then get 5-6 feedings per day into them. The others don't look stunted so they should thrive in the new tap water, water change, high quality food conditions.