DISCUS FINALLY COMING !!

[musicmarn1]

So very happy, got baby discus coming for the first time in my life and long awaited :angel:

ok now the joy fades and the cold...sweat sets in...waking up early, staying up ungodly hours researching this forum, buying internet books and reading everything i can find on HOW TO KEEP THEM ALIVE and more than that, thriving in my home.

I have well water, it has a lot of iron in it, out of the tap its higher and it lowers in the planted tank to 7.6 exactly and 8 KH GH was written down and i cant find it!. Now the bare bottom tank for the discus, im growing out in 30g tall, i ordered the fluval HOB and hydro pro sponge filter, and fluval submersible heater right now this tank has the fully cycled marineland 30g which was running for months as a somewhat planted gravel tank.

Yesterday the last fish came out and the gravel and plants were out, today the last scraps of dirt and debris came out of the bottom, its now sqweaky clean and hopefully tomorrow it will still be cycled ! that scares me, one day without a bioload ??? is that going to mess it all up? i kept a piece of driftwood and a rock in there just to keep some more hard surface for the bacteria but they had nothing much to eat today ! i am getting up now to put in some floating plants....no clue what im doing here and scared i just de-cycled my tank! very nice and slimy filter, i wont change the filter pads which were about due for a week or switch one out now and then another? i am adding a sponge filter and the fluval filter to establish before removing the old filter but once the fish are here im not worried about sustaining the bacteria its this day of ...nothing.

Anyway i have my storage container set by the tank, i got my python 25ft on the way with the old heater going to be used to heat the aging water.

The blue diamond babies were raised by the breeder at 7 PH and 5-6 GH he has well water going through (not sure what this means) refrigerator filter. he mixes his well water with R/O which is what i decided to do

my problem is i put a third of the water as R/O drinking water from my local grocery store, the ph right off the bat is still 7.6 and thats with 6 hour old well water i put in this morning. since that is going to cost me a couple bucks every day to do should i just do bigger water changes with the well water? which i know some of helps Juvis grow out, however i thought to make it closer to what they are used to by adding some, or should i go MORE R/O to get the GH down to say 6-7? i will test GH and pH tomorrow i am a bit freaked and have posted on planted tanks and asking everyone i can for help.

:confused:

REALLY appreciate this forum and trust me the first ever discus babies that are arriving are very grateful for this forum being here to keep them alive, if i hadnt read Carol's amazing thread all the way through and other threads too id have them in a lightly planted tank and i wouldnt have aged the water.....eeep :alien:

HUGS of deep appreciation to any replies in advance !

[discuspaul]

Hi again, musicmarn - you & I have communicated by PM on TPT forum, and I'm sure you would have received my most recent message.
Based on what you've said here & on TPT, the small fry you're getting from the breeder have been kept in water pH of 7.0, and assuming you can maintain a reasonably steady pH of 7.6 in your tank using aged water for your wcs, those little guys should be ok with that - no need to have it lower than 7.0.

As for your bio-filtration, I'm assuming you're testing daily for ammonia & nitrites to ensure the params remain ok - & one day without an ammonia source in your tank should not occasion any significant loss of the BB.

The main challenge you will face, as I mentioned to you before, is the very small size of those youngster discus you're getting.
They're very small & will require much care & attention, with multi-daily feedings & large daily wcs, to bring them along. As I said before, your chances of full success would have been far greater if the breeder had been, or would be, prepared to grow them out further for you, at least to a 2" size.
But if that's not possible, and you're intent on proceeding, then I truly wish you the best of luck with your project.

[troysdiiscus]

Ok let me see if I got some of this correct.
I am guessing by pauls response you are getting quarter sized or slightly bigger juvies? First time with discus, that is a big step. Not saying you cant do it but alot of growing pains in that size.
Ok, so why exactly do you need to use RO water? And your getting it from your grocery store? Thats alot..... You will need to do BIG WC and alot of feeding to boot...
I would invest in a filter system, not that expensive to use to filter out the iron and sediment from your water and use the water you have.
Dont worry about GH and KH right now the most important thing is consistency in your ph.
Hopefully others will jump in and correct me if I am wrong and or offer better advise.

[Second Hand Pat]

Are these little guys still on BBS??

[discuspaul]

Ok let me see if I got some of this correct.
I am guessing by pauls response you are getting quarter sized or slightly bigger juvies? First time with discus, that is a big step. Not saying you cant do it but alot of growing pains in that size.
Ok, so why exactly do you need to use RO water? And your getting it from your grocery store? Thats alot..... You will need to do BIG WC and alot of feeding to boot...
I would invest in a filter system, not that expensive to use to filter out the iron and sediment from your water and use the water you have.
Dont worry about GH and KH right now the most important thing is consistency in your ph.
Hopefully others will jump in and correct me if I am wrong and or offer better advise.

I'm not sure of the size, but I believe they're even smaller than quarter-size - and I have cautioned the poster about this, but it seems my message isn't registering. With limited info to date, I'm also at a loss as to why the breeder would be willing to let his very small discus go out to a newcomer to discus.
They're probably still on BBS.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

I would not sell fry until at least 6 to 8 weeks old (over a quarter size). I have turned down newbies sad to say because I would like to think my fish go to a good home.

I hope all goes well in his venture for the sake of the discus.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Musicmarn,

Let's see if I can't muddle things up for you even more, ok? Take deep breaths before reading the rest of this! LOL

1) If the juvies you are receiving are smaller than 2" they are going to need at least 1 and preferably 2 water changes per day. The sheer amount of water you'll be changing will negate any loss of BB in the filters. The most important thing to remember is that filters of any kind won't take the place of clean water when it comes to very young discus.

2) The Water - If it was me I wouldn't bother with RO water. Just buy a second storage container so that you can age enough water for the twice a day changes. You can buy a fairly inexpensive filter to go on your faucet via a piece of potable (approved for use with drinking water) garden hose that will clear out the iron and any other sediment. Google "garden hose iron filter" to read about them. Since it sounds like you will be receiving your discus very soon (tomorrow?), you're going to need to purchase enough RO water to do the water changes until you can get the iron filter installed and that water aged. I know it's going to be expensive to use the RO, but don't skimp on the water changes, ok? Also, be sure to test the mixed RO/well water for GH and KH to be sure that they are high enough to keep the discus healthy. There are several threads on the forums about optimal parameters for both, so you can read up on that tonight.

3) I have no idea just how small these guys are, but if they are still on BBS you'll need to either start hatching some yourself, or you'll need to purchase some frozen BBS to use for a few weeks till they are weaned onto larger foods. If they aren't on BBS, be sure to stock up on flakes, FDBW's and other high protein foods that you can grind small enough to feed them. They'll need to eat at least 6 times a day.

4) pH of the Water - Since your pH is higher than the breeders pH, you shouldn't have any real problems acclimating the juvies to your water. They can handle a jump in pH. Just use more RO in the mix for the first few days and then slowly reduce it to 30% while you are researching long term filter options for you well water. If you slowly raise the pH to 7.6 in the tank over the course of 5 or 6 days they won't even notice the difference.

I think that's everything for now. Just test the GH and KH, be sure to get those parameters within safe guidelines for young discus, research a filter for your faucet, buy a second storage barrel for the second WC of the day, slowly acclimate them to the higher pH and feed them often.

Good luck and keep us posted, ok?

[discuspaul]

Toni, I have imparted the majority of what you just said to musicmarn, in the last lengthy PM ( & the one before that), that I sent on TPT, to which I haven't yet received a response, but I'm very happy to see it re-inforced here by you & others, so that hopefully musicmarn will not only have the benefit of, but also accept, the confirmation being given here now.

[musicmarn1]

Hey guys, sorry i didn't come back to this Paul i CANT THANK YOU ALL ENOUGH !!!! for all the advice and help i did say Paul, that several places i had read about discus actually did say that smaller was better and several other places said bigger was better so it can get confusing for us newcomers to Discsus to find the right answer even with extensive research, i spend at least 3 hours a day reading up on Discus every single day, i did learn so much here that i am sure is helping my babies !!

The breeder actually said he shipped them young because they acclimate better....it was certainly the fact that they were closer to me for shipping and the breeder (using Tony Tan Bue Diamonds and Snakeskins that looked extremely happy in all pictures he sent me, to my utterly novice eyes but after extensive reading of what not to buy and please rate my discus which taught me that my LFS has stunted, unhappy or mean/stressed discus !) and i thought that way they would get used to my harder water better young.

However i understand my diligence and attention to detail is everything !
They were on Hikari bio gold and beef heart flake, he sent me a good portion of both, i wanted to get them established before i branch out to black worms or blood worms (which guy was that to hook me up with black worms Paul?) i would happily do my own live food if i can find a good source, more research needed extensively on food. Got the tips Paul gave me so ill work with those soon as im sure the little guys are ready.

SO he sent 11 in case any died in shipping, non did, i swear i couldn't breathe or sleep for the last two days except that the little guys are really really acting like very happy fish, they appreciate the large water changes and they are getting more and more confident, they ALL eat well and i do a careful inspection of each one i can get to hold still for a nano second (just viewing through the tank) some are huge and some are teeny tiny, but they are all eating no bullying started yet (will change scenery around to help) i thought that water changes were going to stress them out but no sign so im happy doing it now as often as needed.

you said to get an aqua clear 70 i actually had already ordered a fluval 4 HOB with the ceramic nodes, bio screen, pad and carbon and so am running two HOB (got sponges to dampen flow a bit) until the new filter gets ! got the bare bottom tank with plants tied to rocks or driftwood which they really love swimming through. Your right i didn't loose the cycle, nitrates are present in very small amounts, i do have plants in there java fern and java moss, just added a sword today that is in a pot with root tabs, they wont leave it alone they are making a Discus baby tree in that thing !

ill have to upgrade to a sump pump at some point, i did try a container for aging water and then heat it up to temp with a separate heater i bought, fully submersible, but i apparently even with a dyson i have too much cat hair and dog hair (im a dog trainer) that made it icky even with a lid !! gross. so i had to do todays water change with well water from the tap and R/O water warmed super gently on the stove. and im checking all water perimeters twice daily, ph level is staying 7.6 so far, Aging water is the thing i am most desperate to figure out, i realize STABLE conditions is the key here. (Thanks Paul)

Toni , THANK YOU !!! iron filter, garden hose, tap filter, got it ! brilliant, i think ill change my container type to a tall narrow one and just let the filters take out the hair that does get in there?

SO thank you for saying i don't have to do the RO water, to lower TDS or GH/KH not got those two exactly 100% yet, thinking about getting a tds meter !

yes long term filter options for the well water was EXACTLY what i had moved on to looking at, so this helps bunches, and now i really want to find a way to age large quantities of water without the dog hair and cat hair (how did it get IN there so fast i put the lid on right away, UGH again im gross apparently)


Guys i cant thank you enough, im learning yes but totally willing and able to do everything i can to make them happy and safe, i would love to get some larger Discus as recommended, trying to figure out the safest age i can do planted tank with them i think im reading 3-5 inches, will have to check that again.

oh and filters i found so far dont say filter out iron, back to amazon i go, lead yes iron no but got what Toni said and back to research ill go, i was just told that RO water would lower the kh/gh and the well water mix would have enough minerals etc for the growing discus, ill get an iron filter and save myself the dash to the grocery store each day ....

[musicmarn1]

if i could post the pictures of the baby i would dont see how to do that ....

[musicmarn1]

https://plus.google.com/photos/116573384297357937972/albums/5876205531280185793?authkey=CLLpou_W8cS3jQE

really bad ipad pictures but i made an album so you could see size and tank, sponge on top right is to dampen flow though they actually seem to like swimming against the current, they keep doing it over and over when i didnt have the sponge on

[musicmarn1]

ok and lastly they are not on BBS the breeder said he was feeding them what he sent me and the parents are absolutely magnificent beasts (to me) very healthy and well cared for and the breeder had them in a java fern tank like mine had well water like mine and was only a few hours away from me so they werent going to go so far or cost so much to ship. i take it that getting them this small, is a dangerous thing - when i first got Pauls reply PM about getting them bigger, i had read so much conflicting info on that, some saying Jack Wattley liked to give them out at the size of a fingernail and that no losses happened when he did that...anyway they are HERE and im dedicated, and relying on this site to help them get an educated owner quickly.:o

[yim11]

From Joe right? ;)

Please don't hesitate to post and ask when/if you get conflicting info, plenty of great folks (as you've seen) more than willing to give their personal time to help out. Better to have an informed opinion than a guess.

Best of luck with the new ones!
-jim

[mmorris]

The sort of iron filter you need depends on the type of iron you have in your water. Ferrous iron is dissolved in the water. When you first draw the water it will come out clear, then become cloudy. Ferric is not dissolved, and the water will draw cloudy or you will see bits of iron in it. If your water draws cloudy, you should assume you have both ferrous and ferric, for treatment purposes. A water softener is supposed to filter out ferrous, but not ferric. When air is pumped into the water line and mixes with ferrous water, the iron falls out of solution and becomes ferric, when it can then be filtered out. A standard iron filter set-up will have an air injector put in before the well pump to change the ferrous to ferric, and a filter set up after the well pump to filter out the ferric. Without the air injector, filters will not filter out ferrous iron. Iron in quite small quantities is deadly to discus. If you have trouble with it, you might draw your water into a barrel, aerate it well with an airstone, and filter with a diatom filter.

[Second Hand Pat]

Jim, musicmarn1 stated the breeder was a couple of hours away so not from Joe as musicmarn1 is in Co.

musicmarn1, I would suggest cyclop-eeze sold in a frozen bar. Very much like BBS without the hatchery mess.