help with heating discusions.

[cro117]

hi, i might be acquiring a 240 gal tank soon and discus where something i've always kind of wanted but never had a large enough tank for. i need to keep costs as low as possible though, so i was wondering if anyone could help me with the temperature aspect of the tank.

firstly a little background on me.i tend not to use heaters much, and filters almost never. instead i like to set up planted ecosystems with deep sand beds and keep tank populations on the low side.

i live in southern california, antelope valley desert, so cold has never been as much of an issue for me as heat has. the house probably never drops below 68 in the winter, and i have kept several other amazonian species at the houses room temperature before. the most delicate being neons. though i did add a heater when i did some apistogramma cacatuoides, but they probably didn't really need it. anyway, i was hoping to hear from some people in the southern ca/arizona area on how difficult it has been to keep their tank warm in the winter.

i plan on rigging up an insulated canopy to trap the heat from the lights and will have a insulated sump that will have lights on at night, along with all sides of the tank except the front. maybe that alone will be enough to keep the heat acceptable. i'd have to wait and see. my guess would be having the temp at 78-80 winter and probably mid to high 80s depending on how much insulation i remove. i don't like my tank to go much above 82 for prolonged periods because my plants tend to suffer.

either way i'll have a whole winter to play with the tank before the discus are in it, i just wanted some opinions on the temperatures people keep their discus at on the low end for stretches of say 3-4 months.

this post is getting really long for a simple discussion so i'll break up my other questions into new threads, but if there are any southern ca breeders out there reading this, please get in contact with me at cro117@msn.com i'd love to get an idea of what my options, if any, are around here for local pickups from a breeder. i never trust fish that have seen the inside of a bag for more then a few hours.

[a volar]

Welcome to Simply.

I just reply to your other thread, the only advise I can give you right now is read the beginner section for a few days, it will help you to get an idea what it takes to keep beautiful and healthy discus, it's simple you just need to read a little.......... Welcome again :)

you can start with this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus

[Elliots]

With Discus you should have heater(s). Unless you are doing large water changes, say 90% daily buy filters. They are cheaper than your water bill and you can change much less water less frequently.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Chad Hughes is in Southern CA. He may be able to help. You can send him a PM

[Tazalanche]

hi, i might be acquiring a 240 gal tank soon and discus where something i've always kind of wanted but never had a large enough tank for. i need to keep costs as low as possible though, so i was wondering if anyone could help me with the temperature aspect of the tank.

firstly a little background on me.i tend not to use heaters much, and filters almost never. instead i like to set up planted ecosystems with deep sand beds and keep tank populations on the low side.Simply put, if you intend to cut corners, do seasonal water changes & keep costs low, discus may not be the right fish for your tank.

Read the beginner guides (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?48-Discus-Basics-for-Beginners) on this site for a wealth of knowledge that may give you a better understanding of why these beautiful fish need the type of care recommended.

As to heaters and filters, better to have it & not need it, than need it & not have it. Is the expense of a $20-50 heater really a lot when it is providing for the needs for a school of fish easily worth $100 each?
We're running 6 tanks with the following heaters: 5 300watt, 1 250 watt & 1 100 watt. The temp difference between the water & room temp in our home is 10-18 degrees, dependent on which species is in the tank (78-86 degrees). We have not noticed a difference of more than $10 in our power bill, compared to the same month last year (with no tanks in our home).

Good luck!

[Poco]

Cutting corners with discus leads to only one thing.....dead fish and more money to replace them. Have you considered betas? They are beautiful fish and some members here do keep them but not with discus.

[cro117]

ok, i think some misunderstood the filter part. i don't run mechanized filtration much, meaning water planted through a media. instead i usually keep the tank as an ecosystem with a lower amount of fish, all the same aerobic bacterias are present along with anaerobes to complete the nitrogen cycle and take care of nitrates as well as a bio-wheel takes care of ammonia and nitrites. NO filter on the market, aside from maybe a proteins skimmer purely for debating purposes, does anything for your tank without the bacteria. if you don't believe me throw out your filters right now and replace them with new out of the box ones. the whole ecosystem method has been used by many none american aquarists for many years now. the only down side is you cant fill a tank. but there are so many upsides that it's well worth is in species tanks or biotopes.

as far as my discus tank, i shouldn't have made it sound like there will be zero filtration, rather picture a 50-100 gal biowheel, canister, or whatever you care to picture. there will be a tank underneath, not only adding to the water volume, but allowing for a huge stable bacterial colony in the deep sand bet. there will be undisturbed anaerobic bacteria below the first 2" of sand, and aerobics in the top 2". peat-moss will be the carbon source used for the nitrogen export in replace of oxygen and with a bit of extra peat will hlp to lower the ph a bit, though ive used peat a lot in the past and it doesn't really do much.

this tank will also help me to feed the main tank with a colony of scuds and freshwater shrimp, probably cherries from my current tanks.

i promise the water will be impeccably clean and minerals will be turned over as much as needed. this is a method that reefers have been using for a long time as well an none-american hobbyist and i promise it is magic. all of this amazing filtration though doesn't heat the tank...well, it does a little with the bumps and sump lights being on all night, but i was still a little concerned, so my go/no-go line will depend on what the lowest temp i can get away with is. 8 moths of the year i will have all the natural heat i need, and in the past have had to come up with semi complex ways to cool tanks, but there are times the house will get 68.

i was just trying to keep this thread limited to a simple question so i wouldn't have to type this much out at a time. i'm a terrible speller and hate spell checking this much all at once, lol. now it seems that this simple question has turned into 2 long threads, lol.

[Tazalanche]

i'm a terrible speller and hate spell checking this much all at once, lol. That's one of the many reasons I prefer Firefox over internet explorer. Built in spellchecker. ;)

[cro117]

oh no, it is firefox, it's just every other word is red, lol

[mmorris]

the house probably never drops below 68 in the winter, and i have kept several other amazonian species at the houses room temperature before. the most delicate being neons. .

It isn't an issue of delicate or not delicate. Neons don't need the temperatures discus do. 82 minimum for adults, 84 for juvies. If you don't want to heat the tank, discus aren't a good choice.

[GrayLadyPat]

I gave up on submersible heaters. Some of them can be inconsistent in how they heat, and cannot adjust to tempurature fluctuations.

I took a chance on a Hydor in-line external heater. It mounts on my inflow tube from my canister into the tank, and has never missed a beat. I set the temp on the thermostat, and it automatically heats the water coming in to my tank to the desired temp, and turns itself off if not needed in warmer weather. If I had known it would work so good, I would have gotten one years ago.

Not everyone has the same great results with it, but that's my experience.

oh... btw: Taz, did I ever tell you that I LOVE your signature tag line???

[Tazalanche]

oh... btw: Taz, did I ever tell you that I LOVE your signature tag line???Thank you. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v470/tazfreeatlast/stuff/Smileys/bow.gif