Tazalanche
08-10-2013, 02:57 PM
A comment was made by a new member in another thread about wanting to help out their local LFS. I was originally going to post a response there, but thought it would be more useful as its own thread in the beginner section of the forums so it could possibly become a compilation of our experiences over the years that were not as specific as is required for the Livestock and Product Reviews (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?106-Livestock-and-Product-Reviews) subforum.
PLEASE NOTE:
This is intended as a generic "Pros & Cons" for discus purchases. If you want to mention good or bad experiences with a specific store or sponsor name, please place your review in the above mentioned forum, or in the appropriate sponsor's subforum.
Thank you.
This is the quote that I was responding to:
I'm currently torn on where to buy from. There are a few stores locally who carry them and can custom order. There are a few others in driving distance. I'm all about helping out the local fish guy, but I'm also looking for the best fish for the best price.I completely understand. As a former small business owner, I'm all about helping the local guy too. Here are a few of my experiences.
THE GOOD LFS:
We have a very good friend that runs the local exotic pet shop. Our friend is very trustworthy & tries to provide the best product for the lowest price she can. Some of the questionable breeders out in the world have been known to include what should have been a cull in their wholesaler/pet shop stock. She knows that and expects to lose about 10% of the pets ordered from her wholesale distributors due to death or her own culling because they were sick &/or deformed. She knows that she cannot compete with the big stores on price consistently, so she tries her best to make up for it in customer service & the quality of her animals that are for sale. Part of her goal in improving the quality of her stock is to get local, high quality breeders of her more popular pets. Because of this, we buy our supplies from her (or a sponsor here) & provide her with our excess plants & fish stock for her store (currently mollies, guppies, endlers, plecs and cories).
We still order stock of many types of fish from her (cardinal tetras, lemon tetras, mollies, plecs, cories, etc.), but to compensate for the quality issues she currently experiences, we usually buy a dozen of the fish we want, grow them out, keep the best 2-4 of the school, resell the rest (plus any fry) through her & repeat the process with the profits until we get some good breeding pairs. She loves it because she builds up a loyal customer base for supplies and ultimately ends up selling bigger & healthier stock than her distributor can provide. All of her tanks are currently on individual filters and heaters. She does plan on having some centralized filtration systems for some of her fish stock in the future, but intends on those only being 2-10 tanks per filter to help reduce power expenses, while keeping some isolation between most of her tanks in case of an outbreak. She's only been doing this for 11 months & already moved to a larger storefront 3 months after opening. She's currently hoping to move to a 4500 sq ft location this winter.
Anyway, because of the quality of the fish she gets from her distributor, plus the expense involved in buying discus for resale, she is not willing to stock discus or salt water animals unless she can be certain she's getting the highest quality & knows they will not have a negative impact on her return policies or customer loyalty.
She's one of the good pet shop owners. Most that I have experienced over the years are just out to turn a quick profit, no matter the quality of the pet or customer loyalty. Most of those are no longer in business.
THE SOMETIMES GOOD LFS I BOUGHT DISCUS FROM:
When we decided to get Discus in October 2012 (my first time with discus, but my wife had some in the 1990s), I came to this forum. I had dealt with a different LFS in a nearby city off & on for years with other fish. I had minimal issues over a few decades. His prices were a bit high on a few items, but I knew that he was a better choice than the big box pet chains. Because of that (& the closest sponsor being a 5+ hour drive each way), I ignored the comments about buying from sponsors because I didn't want the added expense of shipping. I went ahead & purchased at least a dozen 3.5"-4" discus from that LFS over a 2 month period for $40-$65 each.
Of that group of 3.5"-4" LFS discus I started with, only 3 were still alive 6 months later. We went through a bout with ich. We went through a bout with internal parasites. We went through a lot of headaches & grief. Those 3 discus are still alive, but 2 of them are the runts in my tanks & have had more money spent on meds for them than I originally paid for each fish. Will I buy another discus from that LFS? Well... would you?
Amount spent purchasing 12+ LFS discus = $600+ (plus tax)
Amount spent stocking medication to treat LFS discus = $100-200
Results of $700-$800 spent on 12+ LFS discus = 3 discus (1 healthy 5" blue turquoise & 2 stunted 4"-4.5" alenquer)
That doesn't include expenses that all the fish have (food/water/equipment).
SIMPLY MEMBERS:
I have bought some discus from other members here. I wholeheartedly believe that anyone that has been here a while & has decided to thin their stock, sell fry, or get out of the hobby, is not going to post questionable fish without disclaimers on any recent issues. It's still a "buyer beware" situation, but much better than considering buying off classified type "yard sale" websites. I have had a few losses of discus bought from members here at Simply, but those could easily be attributed to missing a step in isolating equipment during multiple quarantines of my sick LFS discus.
THE SPONSORS:
The sponsors are local guys (& gals) too, just not necessarily local to you. They're all small business owners with varying levels of success. As sponsors here, they are held to a higher standard or they might lose their sponsorship status. Check out the What not to buy (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?46982-What-not-to-buy) thread for guidelines on appearance. Sure, you might save a few dollars right now if you buy your discus from that LFS, but does that LFS discus have internal parasites or look as good as the pictures everyone has been posting of the discus they just received from X sponsor?
While we have only been getting discus from sponsors since February 2013, I believe our current count is 10 discus directly from sponsors. Every discus we have received directly from a sponsor is still alive & doing great.
We have only used 2 of the sponsors for discus, but have also used other sponsors for food, cones and supplies. Not one order has been bad. There was one discus order where the box was clearly bounced around more than it needed to have been, but those discus recovered from the trauma of their trip within a couple days and are some of the most beautiful fish we have.
MY CONCLUSION:
While the shipped prices might seem a bit higher than you would pay at a local LFS, take additional expenses into account too. These are not $1-$3 tetras where if you have a complete wipeout of a tank you're out less than $100. Discus are an investment of money AND time, but provide immaculate results in a proper display tank.
Learn from our experiences and mistakes. Save yourself the time, effort & expense by going through the Simply Discus Sponsors (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?42-SimplyDiscus-Sponsors) to ensure the healthiest, highest quality discus possible.
Good luck in your aquatic endeavors.
PLEASE NOTE:
This is intended as a generic "Pros & Cons" for discus purchases. If you want to mention good or bad experiences with a specific store or sponsor name, please place your review in the above mentioned forum, or in the appropriate sponsor's subforum.
Thank you.
This is the quote that I was responding to:
I'm currently torn on where to buy from. There are a few stores locally who carry them and can custom order. There are a few others in driving distance. I'm all about helping out the local fish guy, but I'm also looking for the best fish for the best price.I completely understand. As a former small business owner, I'm all about helping the local guy too. Here are a few of my experiences.
THE GOOD LFS:
We have a very good friend that runs the local exotic pet shop. Our friend is very trustworthy & tries to provide the best product for the lowest price she can. Some of the questionable breeders out in the world have been known to include what should have been a cull in their wholesaler/pet shop stock. She knows that and expects to lose about 10% of the pets ordered from her wholesale distributors due to death or her own culling because they were sick &/or deformed. She knows that she cannot compete with the big stores on price consistently, so she tries her best to make up for it in customer service & the quality of her animals that are for sale. Part of her goal in improving the quality of her stock is to get local, high quality breeders of her more popular pets. Because of this, we buy our supplies from her (or a sponsor here) & provide her with our excess plants & fish stock for her store (currently mollies, guppies, endlers, plecs and cories).
We still order stock of many types of fish from her (cardinal tetras, lemon tetras, mollies, plecs, cories, etc.), but to compensate for the quality issues she currently experiences, we usually buy a dozen of the fish we want, grow them out, keep the best 2-4 of the school, resell the rest (plus any fry) through her & repeat the process with the profits until we get some good breeding pairs. She loves it because she builds up a loyal customer base for supplies and ultimately ends up selling bigger & healthier stock than her distributor can provide. All of her tanks are currently on individual filters and heaters. She does plan on having some centralized filtration systems for some of her fish stock in the future, but intends on those only being 2-10 tanks per filter to help reduce power expenses, while keeping some isolation between most of her tanks in case of an outbreak. She's only been doing this for 11 months & already moved to a larger storefront 3 months after opening. She's currently hoping to move to a 4500 sq ft location this winter.
Anyway, because of the quality of the fish she gets from her distributor, plus the expense involved in buying discus for resale, she is not willing to stock discus or salt water animals unless she can be certain she's getting the highest quality & knows they will not have a negative impact on her return policies or customer loyalty.
She's one of the good pet shop owners. Most that I have experienced over the years are just out to turn a quick profit, no matter the quality of the pet or customer loyalty. Most of those are no longer in business.
THE SOMETIMES GOOD LFS I BOUGHT DISCUS FROM:
When we decided to get Discus in October 2012 (my first time with discus, but my wife had some in the 1990s), I came to this forum. I had dealt with a different LFS in a nearby city off & on for years with other fish. I had minimal issues over a few decades. His prices were a bit high on a few items, but I knew that he was a better choice than the big box pet chains. Because of that (& the closest sponsor being a 5+ hour drive each way), I ignored the comments about buying from sponsors because I didn't want the added expense of shipping. I went ahead & purchased at least a dozen 3.5"-4" discus from that LFS over a 2 month period for $40-$65 each.
Of that group of 3.5"-4" LFS discus I started with, only 3 were still alive 6 months later. We went through a bout with ich. We went through a bout with internal parasites. We went through a lot of headaches & grief. Those 3 discus are still alive, but 2 of them are the runts in my tanks & have had more money spent on meds for them than I originally paid for each fish. Will I buy another discus from that LFS? Well... would you?
Amount spent purchasing 12+ LFS discus = $600+ (plus tax)
Amount spent stocking medication to treat LFS discus = $100-200
Results of $700-$800 spent on 12+ LFS discus = 3 discus (1 healthy 5" blue turquoise & 2 stunted 4"-4.5" alenquer)
That doesn't include expenses that all the fish have (food/water/equipment).
SIMPLY MEMBERS:
I have bought some discus from other members here. I wholeheartedly believe that anyone that has been here a while & has decided to thin their stock, sell fry, or get out of the hobby, is not going to post questionable fish without disclaimers on any recent issues. It's still a "buyer beware" situation, but much better than considering buying off classified type "yard sale" websites. I have had a few losses of discus bought from members here at Simply, but those could easily be attributed to missing a step in isolating equipment during multiple quarantines of my sick LFS discus.
THE SPONSORS:
The sponsors are local guys (& gals) too, just not necessarily local to you. They're all small business owners with varying levels of success. As sponsors here, they are held to a higher standard or they might lose their sponsorship status. Check out the What not to buy (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?46982-What-not-to-buy) thread for guidelines on appearance. Sure, you might save a few dollars right now if you buy your discus from that LFS, but does that LFS discus have internal parasites or look as good as the pictures everyone has been posting of the discus they just received from X sponsor?
While we have only been getting discus from sponsors since February 2013, I believe our current count is 10 discus directly from sponsors. Every discus we have received directly from a sponsor is still alive & doing great.
We have only used 2 of the sponsors for discus, but have also used other sponsors for food, cones and supplies. Not one order has been bad. There was one discus order where the box was clearly bounced around more than it needed to have been, but those discus recovered from the trauma of their trip within a couple days and are some of the most beautiful fish we have.
MY CONCLUSION:
While the shipped prices might seem a bit higher than you would pay at a local LFS, take additional expenses into account too. These are not $1-$3 tetras where if you have a complete wipeout of a tank you're out less than $100. Discus are an investment of money AND time, but provide immaculate results in a proper display tank.
Learn from our experiences and mistakes. Save yourself the time, effort & expense by going through the Simply Discus Sponsors (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?42-SimplyDiscus-Sponsors) to ensure the healthiest, highest quality discus possible.
Good luck in your aquatic endeavors.