Discus staring at surface ?

[aseph]

Hi all,

Newb to discus here, My tank is 200 liter(50 Gal) moderately densely planted tank.
I have 5 discus , 1 is the remaining of my first attempt of keeping discus a stunted 3.5 inch , the 4 other are recent addition 2 is 5 inch and the other 2 is 6 inch.

I have been noticing that the larger 6 inch discus are often near water surface tilted upward, the 5 inch and my 7 rummy nose tetra swims at the bottom part , i wonder weather the fish are suffocating or are just looking for food, the 6 inch discus has been in the tank for almost two weeks , fin erect not much stress bar. the 5 inch discus has been in the tank for 1 week and still abit shy, and gets bullied by the bigger ones(they are all eating but the 5 inch discus are not as ravenous eater as the bigger ones). I have been training them to eat from feeding cone, can the fish possibly just looking for food ?

temperature is 28 C /82.4 F (controlled by temperature controller)
Tank has been running for 3 years
Gravel, quite moderately planted
Dosing EI (nitrate is around 25 ppm, nitrite 0, amonia 0 )

Thx in advance

[discusmat]

Do they go back to normal swimming behavior after looking at the surface? I think if the breathing pattern is normal and no signs of white poop
or anything I think,yes they are just looking for food. I would keep an eye out for other odd behavior like flashing.

[aseph]

no sign of white poop, not sure about flashing , flashing means rubbing to decor or...?? the bigger ones are quite a bully and what gets me worried is when the lights is out they are more likely to do the behaviour , they are about 1 inch from surface mouth not taking any air at all.....

[strawberryblonde]

It's generally a sign that they are uncomfortable. Something in the tank, or in the water, is causing the behavior.

I'd recommend going to the Disease/Sickness section of the forums for help.

When you get there you'll see a link to a questionnaire at the top of the page. It's in big bold red lettering. Click on that, copy and then paste it into a new thread. Be sure to fill everything out as completely as you can and attach a picture or link to a photo if possible.

The good folks in that section will do their best to sort out your problem.

[aseph]

i had 4 juvenile discus for almost 1.5 years, they were all stunted, 1 died and I cull 2, I have 1 left , i added 4 adult discus recently (I was reading 5 is the minimum number so i thought with 1 stunted discus it would lessen the Bioload),
so 2 6 inch discus, 2 5 inch discus , 7 neon tetra, few ottos, and 5-6 kuhli , i m wlling to do 2-3 WC weekly where as i was doing weekly WC

the stunted discus was really colored when i bought them i think they were hormon injected, after 1 month the color faded, i feed them twice aday, and 1 WC per week, now i know i m not supposed to do all that(been passively reading)

[Gene]

When in doubt, time for a water change. Even if the water doesn't look dirty.

[camuth8]

Welcome to Simply!:)

I don't know what EI is, but it's probably not very reliable. Try dosing with Prime or Safe. I agree with Gene on doing a water change. How big and how often are your water changes? Another thing is that gravel is the worst possible substrate you can have. It traps tons of poop and uneaten food under it and even when you siphon out the gravel, tons of things are still left. All in all, gravel isn't a good substrate for a delicate fish like a discus. One last thing, where do you get your discus? You may have not gotten them from a reliable source and that is a reason for the 6 inchers to do this.

[lipadj46]

EI is estimative index plant fert dosing regime. It is essentially over dosing ferts to avoid defficiencies and then resetting with large weekly water changes.

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[troysdiiscus]

+1 and which is why your nitrate readings are high..
EI is estimative index plant fert dosing regime. It is essentially over dosing ferts to avoid defficiencies and then resetting with large weekly water changes.

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[aseph]

Welcome to Simply!:)

I don't know what EI is, but it's probably not very reliable. Try dosing with Prime or Safe. I agree with Gene on doing a water change. How big and how often are your water changes? Another thing is that gravel is the worst possible substrate you can have. It traps tons of poop and uneaten food under it and even when you siphon out the gravel, tons of things are still left. All in all, gravel isn't a good substrate for a delicate fish like a discus. One last thing, where do you get your discus? You may have not gotten them from a reliable source and that is a reason for the 6 inchers to do this.

okay i finally aerate the tank and the fish breathe so much better, i m quite baffled that either something wrong with my water or discus just used up alot of oxygen.

EI is dosing with dry fert, i premade my solution, and its the most precise method out there because u can micro adjust your dosage , well i m aiming 20-25 nitrate, will try to put up picture later on tonight
3 of the 4 discus are doing great, 1 has cloudy eye when i got them then after 2 days its gone, after a recent WC which is 2 days ago it re appears, i m quite baffled now any idea what causing it???
WC is tap water treated with dechlorinator

Yes i know Gravel isnt the best substrate i m feeding with cone feeder tetra bit and bloodworm , small amount of food do fall to the bottom and i have my bottom feeder plus my nerite and quite afew pest snail....

I got my discus at single LFS source, they re not the best but i think they look good enough for me,LFS here (South east asia) its much cheaper probably these are the left over fish reject from export to western countries.

@ lipadj46 n troydiscus
yes i m always been a planted tank guy, but i m doing alot of compromise with this tank because i cant resist discus, my tank is non co2 injected, aeerated (only started yesterday), reduce EI dosing(my other tank nitirite probably 50) , higher temp, change more heat resistant plants, more WC, Vacuum recently (i never vacuum, the tank has not been vacuum for as long as over a year), please do comment on the cloudy eye ,one of the discus has cloudy eye as soon as i put them in tank(drip method), cleared out after 2 - 3 days, after recent WC the cloudy eye return this fish is still sulking behind my driftwood , eating but not ferociously, fin abit clamped, color abit dark, occasional bar

TIA

Joseph

[strawberryblonde]

It's going to be hard to find a good balance between nice looking plants and healthy discus.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the cloudy eye after a water change is because you stirred up gunk from the gravel. Gravel can contain some nasty stuff that irritates discus.

If you want to keep the tank planted, try this and see if it helps the discus.

1) Remove the discus. Put them into a bucket with fresh water, a heater and an air stone.

2) Take your time and thoroughly vacuum the gravel. It's going to take a LOT of vacuuming to get all the detritus out of there, so be patient and keep working at it.

3) Once the gravel is really clean, drain some of the tank water into another bucket and use that to rinse out all of your filter media. Then reassemble the filter.

4) Put a pre-filter sponge on the intake of your filter, and plan to rinse it in tap water every day to get the food and feces out of it.

5) Drain your tank and refill it, then test the nitrates. You are aiming for 10ppm. Plants will grow just fine in that. If nitrates are still higher than that, do another gravel vacuuming and then another water change.

6) Once nitrates are at 10ppm, go ahead and put the discus back into the tank.

7) Do a 50% water change every other day till the discus with the cloudy eye is healed up. After that, do a water change every third day to maintain your nice clean water.

[aseph]

thx strawberryblonde, i will do that in one of the weekend.... is it possible if i kept up with WC but never gravel vac and discus still be healthy?i m not sure constantly opening the can of snakes is good for my tank rather just leave the can closed and prayed my best.....

ps: i m changing more of my carpet plants to anubias tied to rock so i can easily gravel vac, this way around 50-60 of my tank will be bare/ or "bare-able"

[strawberryblonde]

Changing your plants to make it easier to clean is a good idea.

I know that you don't want to mess with the gravel and I understand your concern, but that's why you would take the discus out of the tank while you are cleaning it. It's the only way to eliminate the buildup in the gravel.

Discus won't be able to handle high nitrates...ever. They WILL get sick and die, it's just a simple fact.

Please think of them first and do what you need to do to create a healthy environment for them to live in, ok?

[aseph]

My post went missing after i edited them..... wierd.. anyway i was asking why is one of my discus gotten cloudy eye when first introduce gotten better after 2 days, cloudy eyes re appread after WC erlier this week, today did another round of wc looks slightly better(could be imagining it) anyway WC regime is
50% 3 times a week dosing Ferts after WC, Liquid carbon daily

okay here are the picture of the tank

[aseph]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-HpWR_-Aakmg/UhTN-QGhh9I/AAAAAAAAAG8/rWdhN7XdLCU/s640/P8210286.JPG

this one i m concerned about :
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-IDs5r9JpK_0/UhTN6LCARJI/AAAAAAAAAGs/H0jXQXV5s70/s640/P8210285.JPG
looks abit darker maybe due to adjusting to nearest surrounding

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-bnC4MJ1xLv4/UhTNLmsffyI/AAAAAAAAAF0/DGTo9yGnj9g/s640/P8210280.JPG
he guards this spots , unless faced with the 2 big discus he often takes a stand

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-7TaEgH8Z388/UhTMaJC-auI/AAAAAAAAAFo/EGzzVjgDEhQ/s512/P8210275.JPG
close up hopefully clearer picture of the eye here

The Rest of the gang order by hieracy

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RPJJnKCtCdQ/UhTNOX3zzjI/AAAAAAAAAF8/i-buYzzxiaY/s640/P8210282.JPG
alpha

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-7E-UuSQWoIo/UhTMaTE0-2I/AAAAAAAAAFs/5WeGHQWus6o/s640/P8210277.JPG
rank 2

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-blUAZGwHjws/UhTMZUSb4JI/AAAAAAAAAFk/_mxaEcEodgs/s640/P8210276.JPG
rank 3


Please comment how do they look, they breathe okay now with the introduction of aeration
they are all eating from feeding cup 2-3 times daily, tetra bits in the morning fbw at night the amount fall to the substrate is handled by 7 rummy nose, 6 kuhli , numrous of nerite snail and pest snail

I usually am a planted guy and my priority has always been plant first, now with discus i m trying to prioritze them, although by what i ve been scouring i can never achieve the same level of care of the standard here

please advise

TIA

Joseph

[du3ce]

the first one looks like his stomach is pinched

[aseph]

yep all of them were pinched when i first got them except the big one, after frequent feeding 2 gotten better, i think the lfs is not feeding them enough...
crossing my finger that they are not ridden with parasite, i have not noticing any food being spitted out nor white stringy poop

ps: should i be worried?

[troysdiiscus]

No not right now just clean tank really good, big WC , clean water is best for now.

[Discus415]

What is the name of the discus in picture #5 "Alpha"?
Thanks.

[aseph]

Hes supposedly a Leopard Snakeskin discus, personally i think hes a failed strain due to incomplete pattern near his tail, the lfs guy said given good food he'll color up in no time(he recommended tetra bits) thoughts on this anyone?, i picked him because hes the thickest and most healthy looking of the bunch

[strawberryblonde]

Tetra bits are an ok food if you feed a variety of foods, but mostly discus need a higher protein diet. They are meat eaters. You can purchase discus flakes, marine reef flakes, beefheart flakes, frozen beefheart, frozen seafood mix, freeze dried blackworms and freeze dried bloodworms. Be careful with the bloodworms though, some people develop a severe allergy to them. You'll know you're becoming sensitive to them if you start getting a red rash on your hands as your putting them into the tank.

As far as coloring up goes, he's either going to do that as he ages, or he won't. It's all genetics at this point and there aren't any foods that will help him.

[camuth8]

Tetra bits are one of the flakes that doesn't help your fish as much, unless they're tetras.:p I agree with Toni that discus eat a lot of meat although I do have a vegetarian in my group. I feed them so veggies, too. So maybe you can make your own food mix with a mix of beefheart, some veggies, bloodworms maybe. My fish attack mine. Just try to feed your fish the good flakes and meat, not any small stuff.