Oxygen injection

[timmy82]

Hi all I have heard that their are people out their using presurise oxygen / pure oxygen booster machines, injection systems in their tanks for growing young to boost the amount of disolved oxygen content. From what I gather it is more in larger breeding facilities not just a general hobbiest with a few tanks. What do you know about this method ? Is there any good links and proof on this ?
My fish room is still in construction whilst up and running and thinking of incorperating this if it is viable.

[timmy82]

Here is a PDF I just found.

http://www.unuftp.is/static/fellows/document/yovita07prf.pdf

[tolga]

Hi Timmy. I'm sure more experienced discus keepers could point you in the right direction. I was impressed with Piwowarki's method of injecting pure oxygen into his system which he explains in his website. I think he uses a medical grade oxygen bottle and various bits that are required to deliver oxygen in a controlled manner. Having checked these systems on line I did manage to get few items but they were very expensive. I'm now using a german product called Sochting oxydator on the return chamber of my sump. I've obtained the oxydator (W) which is the one designed for ponds. It is very simple and has no electrical or moving parts. It uses a hydrogen peroxide solution that dissolves into the surrounding water column and results in constant delivery of pure oxygen and activated oxygen. Hydrogen Peroxide would not get into the system only oxygen would. It has given my moving bed biological filter medium a huge boost and increased the redox values of my 1000 litres tank. You can check it on www.oxydator.de I think there is an English language option.
Tolga

[timmy82]

Hi Timmy. I'm sure more experienced discus keepers could point you in the right direction. I was impressed with Piwowarki's method of injecting pure oxygen into his system which he explains in his website. I think he uses a medical grade oxygen bottle and various bits that are required to deliver oxygen in a controlled manner. Having checked these systems on line I did manage to get few items but they were very expensive. I'm now using a german product called Sochting oxydator on the return chamber of my sump. I've obtained the oxydator (W) which is the one designed for ponds. It is very simple and has no electrical or moving parts. It uses a hydrogen peroxide solution that dissolves into the surrounding water column and results in constant delivery of pure oxygen and activated oxygen. Hydrogen Peroxide would not get into the system only oxygen would. It has given my moving bed biological filter medium a huge boost and increased the redox values of my 1000 litres tank. You can check it on www.oxydator.de I think there is an English language option.
Tolga

Good stuff tanks Tolga. I have been thinking of many different ways. I did hear that Piwowararki was using some sort of system. I do like their Discus too. I aren't running sumps but was more thinking of a difuser system ran in the corner of my growing tanks.
Thanks for your imput :D

[tolga]

No worries.

[timmy82]

I have been experimenting and seems to have increased activity and appetite. Just gone with a basic ice tea bottle because of the larger lid. A layer of ceramic noodles then rocks above that for a counter weight. An air line in through the lid via a barb to the bottom. 3/4 full of water and addition of some hydrogen poroxide. A 2nd barb in lid short air line and small air stone to defuse the O2.
Until I get an DO meter I don't want to over do it so going by observation at the minute. What do you think for the cost of very little and using an air system already running they seem to be more active than normal and food is just being smashed. I am more doing it for growth, better health and fluctations in stocking levels less effect.

[timmy82]

The difusers seem to be working well after about 7 days they loose some of the volume of water trapped in the bottle and start to float which doesn't worry me too much as I was planning on recharging them with hydrogen poroxide once a week. I have a dissolved oxygen meter coming soon so will be able to put up the % of saturation for comparison.

[nikond70s]

interesting thread. so what is the benefits of injecting pure oxgen into the tank?

is it the same as co2 that people inject into their planted tank for growing lush plants in their aquarium?

or would be having many air pumps give the same effect?

[timmy82]

interesting thread. so what is the benefits of injecting pure oxgen into the tank?

is it the same as co2 that people inject into their planted tank for growing lush plants in their aquarium?

or would be having many air pumps give the same effect?

Have a look at thread #2 PDF that was a good document I found.
In answer to your other questions Benifits of pure oxygen in the tank reduces stress of bio load better health, less inclinde to get sick more energetic thust consume more food and growth is incresed.
No not the same as Co2
Many air pumps wont have same effect it is more about the water being able to retain the oxygen rather than burst in big bubbles at the surface.

I am still doing a lot of trial on this to refine the best method that is the reason for having this thread here to gather some good input. At the minute it may have cost me no more than $40 ( $30 for the 500ml of hydrogen poroxide) no more than $10 in barbs air stones and silicon hose. The benifits I can see them more active and eatting more ! The results in theory should out weigh the cost for a year for 30 tanks or so annual cost would be no more than $50 I have 10 pairs atm and if all goes well and each have on a rough guess 100 sellable youg per year that will bring in the $$$

[nikond70s]

Have a look at thread #2 PDF that was a good document I found.
In answer to your other questions Benifits of pure oxygen in the tank reduces stress of bio load better health, less inclinde to get sick more energetic thust consume more food and growth is incresed.
No not the same as Co2
Many air pumps wont have same effect it is more about the water being able to retain the oxygen rather than burst in big bubbles at the surface.

I am still doing a lot of trial on this to refine the best method that is the reason for having this thread here to gather some good input. At the minute it may have cost me no more than $40 ( $30 for the 500ml of hydrogen poroxide) no more than $10 in barbs air stones and silicon hose. The benifits I can see them more active and eatting more ! The results in theory should out weigh the cost for a year for 30 tanks or so annual cost would be no more than $50 I have 10 pairs atm and if all goes well and each have on a rough guess 100 sellable youg per year that will bring in the $$$

timmy, do you have any pics or vid of setups? i would be interested if the setup is easy and doesnt take up a lot of space.

[timmy82]

Not with me I get home from work Tuesday so some time this week I'll try and get a picture up. Pretty much you see how people set up the K1 in the bottles pretty well same sort of setup.

[nikond70s]

i just looked it up. an it looks so simple and easy.if somehow the glass breaks and the hydrogen peroxide leaks out into my aquarium. would that kill all my fish? and is it the same hydrogen peroxide u buy at like walmart with the brown bottle and use it for cuts and scrapes?

[timmy82]

i just looked it up. an it looks so simple and easy.if somehow the glass breaks and the hydrogen peroxide leaks out into my aquarium. would that kill all my fish? and is it the same hydrogen peroxide u buy at like walmart with the brown bottle and use it for cuts and scrapes?

I just use plastic ice tea bottles and it doesn't hurt the fish people in aquaculture use it fairly often and alot have it on hand to put directly into the water during large power outages. It needs to be the hydrogen peroxide safe for human consumption. I got mine from a health shop online at 35% and dilute it to 3.5% and use it at that ratio so the 500 ml is going to last a long time. I am waiting on my DO meter so I can up the mixture to achieve around 100 % saturation. From what I understand over 120% saturation starts to loose the advantages. The document says that between 80 % - 120% with the right feed ratio is best results.

[doivuthe]

Do you use DO meter to measure?
What result do you have?
Thanks so much

[timmy82]

Do you use DO meter to measure?
What result do you have?
Thanks so much

Hopfully my DO meter should be here next week.
I have only been going on observation and the activity, appetite and growth has increased. Once I get the meter I'll put up some results and ratio's ect. The cost to do this is less than $50 per year and I can see the difference in my Discus over the last 6 weeks since I started using it.

[yann]

Interresting!

Wait news from you !

Yann

[timmy82]

My D/O meter should hopefully be here by 15th and i can post some comparisons with some more accurate results

[timmy82]

Hi all my meter has came and I haven't had much time to play around yet. Here is one bit of info I am currently keeping a batch of 33 17 day old Alenquer fry in 85% - 90% D/O and haven't had any losses even after removing off parents 3 days ago. They are all feeding well on BH, FDBW & NRD .5 growth granuals. I don't normally pull my fry this early but they were all starting to feed well away off the parents and around 3/4". I am expecting good size out of these young the mother is around 7" - 8" and the father is only very young (maybe 18 months) and still growing.

[sheaspina]

Very cool stuff. I'm waiting anxiously to see what kind of data you'll get with the meter. I've got a fresh spawn that's about a week old now, I think I might give this a try with them. Personally I'd much prefer to go with an external setup though. Some of my discus have shattered glass thermometers in the past while rough housing, I think it'd only be a matter of time before that thing (the internal style setup) got knocked over.

[timmy82]

Very cool stuff. I'm waiting anxiously to see what kind of data you'll get with the meter. I've got a fresh spawn that's about a week old now, I think I might give this a try with them. Personally I'd much prefer to go with an external setup though. Some of my discus have shattered glass thermometers in the past while rough housing, I think it'd only be a matter of time before that thing (the internal style setup) got knocked over.

I don't seem to have any problems with things getting knocked about. I got 60 tanks running and around 8 with this difuser in them it is only a plastic bottle with rocks as a counter weight and water in it. I am at work for another 4 days so i will be able to do some more testing when I get home. I will have to include a water sample with temperature, hardness, ph and all the other normal things because unless your water matches what i'm testing D/O in that will influnce the amount of oxygen the water can hold too.

[sheaspina]

Good points. I thought about trying it out simply with 3 percent solution generally available. It seems whatever this would be capable of producing should be well within safe parameters.

As far as concerns regarding knock over, certainly to each their own, only my personal preference until I have a better understanding of the chemical process & what the implications of a knock over may or may not be. I am no chemist by the loosest definition.

By your understanding would a bit of unprocessed hydrogen peroxide be relatively harmless if released into the water column? I understand (I think) that the result of the oxidation process is simply O2 & h2o, but what I have safety concerns (lack of knowledge) about is the pre-processed material.

[timmy82]

From what i have found that the levels of Ho2o has to be over 15mg/l. I use it at 3.5% solution so to be harmfull to you would have to have a very high dosage. I have only been doing small trials of this as the better oxygen transfer across the gills the less energy ect is exerted to swim about and eat and there for should put more energy into good growth and health.

[timmy82]

I haven't forgoten been very busy. I have found a raio chart to calculate the dosage of Ho2o more accurately.




The following formula can be used to determine the volume (in milliliters [= ml ] of 35% Ho2o
required for a given treatment concentration and system volume.

(treatment concentration mg/l) system
_________________________ X volume (L) X 1000 = __ml of 35%

396100

Figure 1.

NOTE:There are 396,100 mg of hydrogen peroxide per L of 35% Ho2o

In Aquaculture for food fish the average concertration is 75mg/L to help with mortality and disease problems. I am at aproximately 10mg/L and notice a difference. I am still to do more testing with D/o Metre.

If you are using 3% hydrogen peroxide, each 1 ml added per 30 Litres (8 US gallons) will increase total peroxide levels by 1 mg/l. 15 mg/l per 48 hours is thought by many to be a fish safe concentration.

[DC Discus]

Update??? Interested in Do readings.
Cheers,
DC

[timmy82]

Yes I have been slow at getting back to this. Here is one trial I did. Tank is 6 x 20 x 20 so arond 500lts. PH 7.2 TDS 95. Water temp 29c stocking levels are 3 x 3.5" discus and 4 x 4.5 - 5" discus, 3 L333, 3 x L397 4 x pepermints 7 x orange chromides and 5 cherry barbs. Tank BB 4 corner boi air driven filters 1 x 5" sponge with K1. after water change added 20ml of 35% Ho2o before adding D/O was 76% 30min after 88% 6 hrs later 92% 24 hrs later was 87%. 24hr period aprox 30% water changed. I done the similar proceedure on other smaller tanks but more heavily stocked and after 24hrs the D/O was around 8 - 10% greater. I haven't kept a really strong record track got a lot of things happening and I don't use the Ho2o every day normally twice a week seems to keep them around the 80% D/O. The last lot of Altum Flora young are about 6 weeks old from FS and they were mostly 3.5 - 4cm when move the other day. They may have had 3 or 4 Ho2o doses but haven't been using it heavily. It isn't a substitute for water changes it is mearly an added benifit that i can't see any bad effects from and I only using weak dosage with an improvement in D/O. I don't aim at getting super saturation as I feel that could maybe end changing the whole out come but want to stabise D/O around 80 - 85%

[Neilinla]

Would a pump with a needle wheel impeller and a venturi attachment work? I was going to have two loops of water in/out of the tank. One loop with a canister/heater on it and the other for CO2 injection (and oxygenation with the venturi) and uv sterilizer. Reason I was thinking of doing this is because I didn't want an air stone in the tank but I read somewhere that discus need oxygen rich water. Long story short, I went with two canister filters but I've always wondered if my original plan would've worked.

New to the forum, first post in fact, but love the wealth of information and experience I am seeing.

[NeonTetra]

Hopfully my DO meter should be here next week.
I have only been going on observation and the activity, appetite and growth has increased. Once I get the meter I'll put up some results and ratio's ect. The cost to do this is less than $50 per year and I can see the difference in my Discus over the last 6 weeks since I started using it.

What were the results and conclusions of the experiment? I am curious :book:

[Larry Bugg]

This post is 3 years old and it looks like Tim hasn't had a post in 1 1/2 years now.

[LizStreithorst]

lol. I guess oxygen infusion didn't work out for him.

[DJW]

Buying that dissolved oxygen meter might have bankrupted him..lol

[pitdogg2]

maybe he smoked and it went poof.....kidding

[DJW]

I got interested in oxygen supplements a while ago when I thought about my elevation. At 3000 feet above sea level the oxygen deficit is the same as raising the temperature from 82 to 94 degrees, yet I never see elevation mentioned. If you live in a place like Denver the oxygen level is even lower. Maybe the fish adapt somehow?

Peroxide looks like the easiest way to do it, but without a DO meter its hard to know how much to use, or how long it takes to dissipate. A good DO meter is really expensive.

[pitdogg2]

that is very interesting I live at about 720' above sea level, you know I've never really gave any thought to higher elevations you bring up a very good point.