New 150gal and the substrate question.

[Yashua]

I got myself a new 150 gal tall (48w 24d 35TALL!!)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/azupyse8.jpg
I was hoping to get help/input on a direction I was "thinking" of going with my substrate.
This is my tank now
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/a7ubuvu5.jpg
I have a well established eco complete substrate in my tank (1.5yrs) and I wanted to keep the eco complete because of the fantastic job it's done for my plants and water balance, but after scouting the forums I was noticing sand or bare bottom was a lot of people choices.
So the question is can I use the substrate I have now as a layer across my 150 and a 2-3 in sand layer on top? If yes the what would be the best way to remove substrate from my 40 tall while still leaving my fish in it. Reason is I'm not jumping into this setup... I want to plan it well and cycle it correctly.

Would I run into any compaction issues by topping eco complete with sand?

Thank you for reading this far have a couple of nice photos to look at ;)
(I am no breeder so these guys are strictly hobby)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/aqudyhun.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/yzaqe9ub.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/20/7u3amaru.jpg

[du3ce]

id ditch the eco:complere and use sand with root tabs

[Yashua]

Could you elaborate on why not? This is a deep tank and I really don't feel like using root tabs.

[du3ce]

it doesnt look like u have a lot of plants so thats why I suggested root tabs what kind of sand color are u going to top it off with? sometimes the sand will seep through exposing the bottom layer overtime

[Yashua]

I haven't decided yet :) that's what this whole process is for.
You kinda made me chuckle... Thou I don't have many plants now I should of made it clear I plan to have many in my 150g... Sorry I didn't say that.
I was thinking white sand... And if the eco layer gets exposed a little couldn't I just add a bit more sand in those exposed places? Just thinking out loud here, and thanks ;)

[Frankr409]

I use a roughly 2 inch bottom of Flourite, topped by 2 inches of pool filter sand. Excellent compaction for removal of waste by using a blower twice daily due to the nature of the sand. Excellent rooting media, and nutrient source for plants.

[Yashua]

I use a roughly 2 inch bottom of Flourite, topped by 2 inches of pool filter sand. Excellent compaction for removal of waste by using a blower twice daily due to the nature of the sand. Excellent rooting media, and nutrient source for plants.

Your setup is what I was thinking.. My established eco on bottom for roots and sand on top for looks and ease of maintenance.
Thanks for the info!

[Frankr409]

Your setup is what I was thinking.. My established eco on bottom for roots and sand on top for looks and ease of maintenance.
Thanks for the info!Your welcome. I have perfected this in my 110 tank and will be using the same model for my new 280g Discus tank.

[Yashua]

Could You show a few pics of the ground level and division of substrates.. I was wondering how that looked.
I get the added benefit with eco that if any waste makes it past sand the eco will break it down and make it nutrients for plants

[Frankr409]

Yahsua,

Try this thread. I posted a picture there. I can't do much more from my iPad this evening. Second to last message should show the picture. So to make it clear, I use a Hydor pump, nearly at substrate level. Twice a day, for thirty minutes a day, it blows like hell, and puts debris into the water column, where it is removed by filters. Nothing penetrates sand layer.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?108797-Midwest-Custom-Aquarium/page2

[Yashua]

Thanks. I like the picture! I want to have plants like that so it can provide natural cover... My plan is to make my tank an island and have it viewable all around.. So no back as it were for the tank... Every side is going to be viewable.

[Frankr409]

I like that idea of a viewable tank from all angles. Especially if you are able to hide equipment in a sump, and have the plumbing drilled in the bottom into a sump so you can minimize the hardware visible. Keep us posted!

[musicmarn1]

Since I have now filled all space in my small log cabin with tanks, I was going to do the same thing, island tank - so also want everything in a sump underneath, I was thinking of making the plants in an island in the middle too and get some good height in the middle, tallest plants and then down to smallest with outer layer of substrate, probably sand. So starting to think what equipment too. Love the Hydor pump idea on a timer to blow int water column between changes. Hope I can go get the 250 I saw used tomorrow. OwY over budget for fish but in my area cheap large tanks have been very rare on CL

[Frankr409]

Since I have now filled all space in my small log cabin with tanks, I was going to do the same thing, island tank - so also want everything in a sump underneath, I was thinking of making the plants in an island in the middle too and get some good height in the middle, tallest plants and then down to smallest with outer layer of substrate, probably sand. So starting to think what equipment too. Love the Hydor pump idea on a timer to blow int water column between changes. Hope I can go get the 250 I saw used tomorrow. OwY over budget for fish but in my area cheap large tanks have been very rare on CL. Love to see that 250, my 280 is in process as we speak!

[Yashua]

So here is another question because you got me thinking... As it sits right now it's empty and easy to drill holes... Should I go that route?

Here is a few good shots
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/22/qysyhaje.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/22/juveza8y.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/22/emezute6.jpg

[450rdawg]

That looks like the same topfin aquarium I have. The bottom of mine is tempered and I don't think you can drill through that. Not sure but that's what I've heard.

[Yashua]

Your correct it is a top fin... And I have also heard that u canter drill through tempered glass... I wonder how you can tell or does top fin do that to all their tanks?

[Ryan]

I have no idea if this is true or not, but your question made me curious and so I did some Googling to find this: http://www.salt-city.org/showthread.php?9542-How-to-tell-if-glass-is-tempered

If this is true, it's not only simple but pretty nifty. :D

[Yashua]

Came across same thing but I don't have polarized glasses ATM...
But doing research it seems that the larger tanks are almost guaranteed to have tempered bottoms for sheer weight factor..
One thing I'm curious is this line can come with corner drilled... So is that done before they temper you think or what..? I'm still hunting the answer down :)

[musicmarn1]

. Love to see that 250, my 280 is in process as we speak!

Just got it today! It's for sure 29 deep and 32 tall and 72 long so that's 280 right or no? Anyway it's not pretty and new but I'm going to take my time, buff it out make custom lights and its drilled for sump (not sure i understand how that works, it's drilled at the bottom and the black covers go all the way to the top. Anyway I'm going to look for you guys for ideas! Would love to have input it's dark right now but I will post the ugly but large thing tomorrow! My husband will make a stand for me and now I need to think sumps, my local fish guy has two HUGE reef sumps are a bit worse for wear they are drilled too whatever that means, I'm new but ready to learn. Following your posts avidly

[Yashua]

Just got it today! It's for sure 29 deep and 32 tall and 72 long so that's 280 right or no? Anyway it's not pretty and new but I'm going to take my time, buff it out make custom lights and its drilled for sump (not sure i understand how that works, it's drilled at the bottom and the black covers go all the way to the top. Anyway I'm going to look for you guys for ideas! Would love to have input it's dark right now but I will post the ugly but large thing tomorrow! My husband will make a stand for me and now I need to think sumps, my local fish guy has two HUGE reef sumps are a bit worse for wear they are drilled too whatever that means, I'm new but ready to learn. Following your posts avidly

What are you planning, fresh or saltwater?
I'm doing fresh so I am throwing around the idea of a wet sump (new balls that float around a full sump tank... I guess you could say it's more of a refugium.

Or with a plant sump and go more natural filtration... Ideas are fun :)

To start out thou I'm prob going to get an ugly hang on coupled with my fluval and manage coords neatly. I'm thinking I won't be able to drill but I'm not certain yet.

[Frankr409]

Just got it today! It's for sure 29 deep and 32 tall and 72 long so that's 280 right or no? Anyway it's not pretty and new but I'm going to take my time, buff it out make custom lights and its drilled for sump (not sure i understand how that works, it's drilled at the bottom and the black covers go all the way to the top. Anyway I'm going to look for you guys for ideas! Would love to have input it's dark right now but I will post the ugly but large thing tomorrow! My husband will make a stand for me and now I need to think sumps, my local fish guy has two HUGE reef sumps are a bit worse for wear they are drilled too whatever that means, I'm new but ready to learn. Following your posts avidly
Nice! 290 gallons almost. Mine is probably a month away, or so. I went with 96 long, 24 deep, 28 tall. I considered a sump, but I am going with twin FX6 filters. I have sourced a nice background from Ultimate Rocks llc, that will help me hide the equipment, like I am doing now on my 110 Angel tank. Just curious, how much did the tank go for?

[flutterbug]

Hi, I am also setting up a new tank and already have an established tank with eco complete. I wanted to reuse my eco complete as well. Then read all the suggestions of sand bottom. I just wanted to say that I found a thread somewhere on the planted tank forums and someone said that if you try capping the eco with sand, eventually all the sand will find it's way to the bottom since it is finer. That made me remember how eco-complete has it on the bag, that it creates a layer over time with finest particles sinking to bottom and larger particles on top. So I decide it made sense that this would happen. I have a small tank that I used sand and put a small layer of peat on the bottom. I didn't like how you could see a layer of black just under the top of the sand. It made it look dirty, I imagine that will be the effect if you just keep adding sand over the top. Plus I had to add some extra eco after my plants were planted and it is a pain. Now I am considering using Kitty Litter! I know it sounds crazy but I have found some good examples of it. The color is very similar to the sand so I feel like if it does mix in a little you probably won't notice any where near as much. I am just scared it might have a negative effect on water quality. Trying to find out if I can confirm it is totally safe. Here is the thread about the litter. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/showthread.php?t=169649

[Yashua]

Yea I still have the bag and I read that as well... But intermixing shouldn't really hinder anything (I'm only talking where the layers meet not complete mixing). Thou you got me thinking and perhaps I can make a runner of sorts to go on the bottom for the height that I want my floor bed. That might provide an interesting look :)

[Yashua]

Nice! 290 gallons almost. Mine is probably a month away, or so. I went with 96 long, 24 deep, 28 tall. I considered a sump, but I am going with twin FX6 filters. I have sourced a nice background from Ultimate Rocks llc, that will help me hide the equipment, like I am doing now on my 110 Angel tank. Just curious, how much did the tank go for?

I bought my tank at Pet Smart for 649... On sale originally 739... 30 day return policy and no sales tax :) I'm pretty happy

[flutterbug]

I don't think it will hinder anything either, I just don't want the light sand and the black eco mixing. I think it will look bad. Like the sand is dirty. I don't think your plants will have any problems, for me it's just esthetics. :)

[Yashua]

Perhaps you can make a strip along the bottom (black I would think) to hide the layers...

[Fish from Philly]

I used eco complete and then pool filter sand on top. If I did it over again, I would only use the eco complete in the back of the tank (2" deep or so) and then add 2" of pfs on top. That way, the stem plants in the back can get nutrients from eco and you won't have tio worry about it mixing where there substrate is shallower.

I think you should go with the sand as it is easier to clean but also because some of the discus (pigeon blood species) will pepper up with dark background and substrate.

[Yashua]

I used eco complete and then pool filter sand on top. If I did it over again, I would only use the eco complete in the back of the tank (2" deep or so) and then add 2" of pfs on top. That way, the stem plants in the back can get nutrients from eco and you won't have tio worry about it mixing where there substrate is shallower.

I think you should go with the sand as it is easier to clean but also because some of the discus (pigeon blood species) will pepper up with dark background and substrate.

Exactly.. I want sand because I do have peppering on one oft discus and I have already well established eco for the good substrate...
Philly can I ask you when you mixed... Could you see the mixing in the tank( like in the middle) or just on the edge of the glass where it shows the layers.

[Fish from Philly]

Yes after I vacuumed I sucked up Eco complete and it mixed which made it look pretty bad. That's why I'm saying if u do, then only use in back where sand is deeper. Check out my thread on planning my 150 gallon. Went through same thing you are and can tell you everything I learned


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[Yashua]

Awesome thanks I will... I haven't locked in to how I want it to look. I live in Oregon a few hours away from the coast. I'm hoping to find a nice piece of wood ;)

[Wanny]

I purchased a cypress wall at this site http://www.amazonmoosey.com/swampwoodcustom2.htm, scroll down page and you will see it. They will custom make one or send it to you in pieces. I got the pieces and made my wall the way I wanted it. They also have awesome driftwood pieces. I used this to keep plant substrate away from sand. Attached it to the bottom of tank empty with 100% pure silicone, let it dry per instructions, then place your substrate for plants, place plants, then sand on top, then fill the tank with water over top a plate so you don't displace the sand. I get my sand from Petco, the brand is Caribsea, it does not alter PH, but does come in more colors then just pool sand, but go with a light color as site suggests. Here is a picture of my tank to show you the cypress wall.
http://i1363.photobucket.com/albums/r703/luannerfl/001_zps07cf1266.jpg (http://s1363.photobucket.com/user/luannerfl/media/001_zps07cf1266.jpg.html)

[Wanny]

Yeah, do what makes you happy, after all how many other people are actually going to look out our fish but us, LOL.

[Yashua]

Thanks for the info wanny! That is a good source for multi level :) ... It's not quite the look I want, but ideas are thrown around daily so I can't even say I have a direction yet... I want to do this correct thou that's all I know ;)

[Yashua]

I wanted to write an update on the 150! Here are some pics
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/yby2y2y9.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/a2ypypy8.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/4asetube.jpg
And here are some individual shots :)
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/jybe2emy.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/6avyma2y.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/aterady7.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/3y2araqa.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/4udasaty.jpg
This poor guy got some transfer scratches buy darting into the ground... Dummy!
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/egera4ym.jpg
And my runt
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/yzyreju5.jpg
All huddled in corner because I was being a paparazzi lol
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/12/26/taqa3emy.jpg

What a challenge, but I'm glad I waited and got what I wanted! Now I just need to order my overflow pieces and assemble it! Plus get a couple of tanks for my sumps and I'm golden!