200Gal Empty Tank - suggestions

[SwissMiss]

Hi everyone,
I am new here. I have come for some advice to see if discus fish are for me.
I have an empty 200gal tank with a nice sump filtration system and was thinking of turning it into a discus tank. I have always admired these fish.
I am close to germany so have various good breeders available. What I wanted to know is a little about keeping these fish. What are your daily, weekly care regimens. How is their personality? What is the best food/s and how much do you feed? any info is welcome!

I was also wondering if you suggest starting with young fish or already adult fish. I am worried that I might not be able to get young fish to reach the same potential as a seasoned breeder.

thanx!

[Elliots]

Spend some time reading SD especially the Beginners section. Discus eat flake foods but you have to do a lot of large water changes, depending on what you want at least 20% three times weekly. Larger and more frequent changes are better for adults. They also need warm water, at least 82 degrees fahrenheit, a little warmer is better. Less and smaller changes for adults as opposed to smaller fish. I never had smaller fish so I do not know what exactly they require.

[timmy82]

New to discus you are better with adults. Keep them in a bare bottom adults should be fine with every second day 25% water change the more frequent the better though. Beef heart mix and FDBW are a good start for food and only a little dry feed here and there. Majority of your answers will be in threads in begginers section.

[SwissMiss]

Thank you.
Do you guys have Discus imported from Asia? Or from local breeders? I ask because the breeders I talked to say Asian fish need a lot of water changes as that is what they are used to. However, for their adult fish they recommend 30%weekly. Just trying to get all the facts before getting into this.

Also, would I be able to keep a pleco with them? If so, which type.

Thanks, I will look through the other treads here also...

[alexsano]

welcome to simply and no need for plecos.

[Gorf]

You are at the start of your Discus keeping, it can a long learning curve, but you are going about it the right way.

If you have breeders near to you, you may want to check them out. The advantages are that they will be used to your local water conditions. I mean breeders, not a fish store that bought them in from Asia. I personally prefer natural looking fish, but look around yourself at the variety of colours & choose what you like best. Discus can be skittish, they get scared easily, especially when young. One moment they will be gracefully swimming in your tank, the next moment they'll be fighting. The mating rituals are beautiful to watch.

Discus like rich foods such as bloodworm & beefheart. They are also messy eaters, they take a bite & the food gets everywhere. This makes for a grubby tank. This is the issue that you want to consider about tank decor. The more in your tank, the harder it will be to keep it clean. At one end, a tank can be complete bare which makes it very easy to clean, the other end would be fully planted & you need to decide how much time a week you want to put into looking after your tank.

My own tank has a sand substrate, lightly planted. I had initially intended to do a weekly water change, but saw what state my tank got into so I now do 3x 50% changes per week. During the water change, I wipe down the glass, clean up the plants & clean the pre filter part of both my filters. The whole job take no more than an hour each time, which I find acceptable.

The next step would be to post your full water test results to check if anything needs to be done with your water.

Stendker are quiet a well known German breeder.

[SwissMiss]

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer.
Yes indeed, I was talking about Stendker. They seem very serious and fond of their fish. I am looking for someone who wants to sell me a group of fish for the long run (and therefor is interested in my tank and upkeep) compared to someone who is looking to make money off a beginner.
I would also be close enough to pick the fish up myself therefore preventing shipping stress. I will email them later. From what I read it seems they prefer to sell groups of 12+ fish. I think 12-14 would work well in my 200Gal.

I am just a little worried about the power of my filter. It creates quite a lot of current when on full blast. How are they with current? I am already going to add a spray bar at the output as I always thought that needed to be done.

The tank used to be for show fancy goldfish from japan. I lost my favorite one of 8years recently so I am giving up goldfish and also wanted to pause on the imported fish. I think it really stresses them out. Too much of a heartache! I am therefore used to the bare-bottom with a few anubias on rocks look. I wanted to try lightly planted with a very light gravel coating. But I am always afraid of bacteria (which is why I went bare-bottom in the first place). How do you organise the floor syphoning? Do you do parts at a time?

Would getting some bottom feeders help with the mess? Or is it better to just not mix the discus to make sure nothing gets introduced into the tank?

I am moving in a few weeks so will be sanitising the entire tank, doing some maintenance work and then starting a fishless cycle. So the fish will be only in a few months.

I was thinking of going up to visit the breeder to see how they are in 'real'. Do they interact with the 'outside world' or are they more to themselves? I am used to my goldfish who are very much into following you around the tank constantly begging for more food.

[Quintin]

Discus are great fish.they will probably be skitish if they dnt know you but shold soon be eating out of ur hand.some pots are better as you can move them around while vacuuming the tank and do water change same time.Hope yoou decide to keep discus they realy nice.Im in south africa and we order our frozen food from germany SV2000 and royal discus mix are tops.dont order from the east as there isnt much quality controll.You are in a good place to get ur fish and food.PS if you feed frozen food too often you will find they refuse to eat flakes

[Elliots]

Quintin, it seems that if you feed Discus only one food regularly they refuse change but if you only feed the new food they will eventually eat it. That is one of the reasons a varied diet is best for Discus.

[SwissMiss]

Oh yes, I read that their food was really good. What about gel foods? That is what I used to feed my goldfish. It was from the brand repashy, really good quality IMO.

For stocking the tank. If I go with, let's say 12 discus of already adult size. How does it work in terms of pairs? Since they are adult some will already be in breeding pairs right? How does that work? Or is it possible to get 12 'bachelors and bachelorettes'?

[Gorf]

Are you able to visit Stendker themselves? if so, I expect that you would find the visit very interesting & useful.

I'm sure that 12 Discus would be very happy in a 200 gal tank. Note that adult or sub-adult fish would be easier to keep than juveniles.

For bottom feeders, you may want to consider Sterbai Corry - but they are not necessary as cleaners because most of the bottom dirt will be Discus poop.

I use 2 filters & they both have spray bars. Discus are good swimmers, but in general, they like a medium flow. Maybe a short video showing your flow would be useful?

My wife keeps Orandas, so I would be pleased to offer any comparisons keeping the two types of fish.

I agree about collecting the fish directly from a breeder. We collected both our fishes.

I have a sand substrate & as part of my water change routine, I use the syphon to vacuum the surface of the sand & then use a tool to stir the sand. My wife has gravel for her Orandas which she keeps very clean by using a gravel clean to clean all the gravel every water change. Note that Cory would prefer a sand substrate. Sand will compact & therefore the dirt will stay on the surface. With gravel dirt will filter down between the gravel - but gravel is much easier to keep clean.

As we have Orandas, I can tell you that the character of the two types of fish is very different. Orandas are constantly hungry & will follow you around the tank, they will come to the surface for cuddles & will nip your fingers like puppies. Orandas are cute in the way that they swim, but are quite poor swimmers & also quite slow. Although they don't shoal, they are friendly to their other tank mates, unless one is ill. Their spawning behaviour however is very violent.
Discus are almost opposite. They have a stronger self-preservation & will be wary much of the time. They will rise to the surface of the water when it is food time & if you sit at the tank talking to them, they will all come to watch you. They will often take food from your hands, but not take cuddles. When they are younger & before they are used to you, they will be very timid indeed. The slightest movement can scare them & they will swim to their hiding places- usually a corner so fast that they will all bang the side glass. I have had mine now for 10 weeks & my fish have stopped doing this now. When they are scared, they will remain scared for some time & will not eat. For instance, mine are still scared by the water change & will not eat afterwards. (The Orandas play in the water change & try to go up the syphon!). The Discus will fight each other to establish position in the group & also the females will fight each other to gain position to spawn. I only have one confirmed male at the moment, but I suspect that males would also fight. Although there is fighting, the Discus spend most of their time looking beautiful & gently swimming around. Their spawning dancing is a beauty to see.
Two different types of fish, water puppies or ballet dancers. :)

[SwissMiss]

This is the place
http://diskus-direkt.de/index.php?XTCsid=4e000b895e8c02fa83efb2374b0dc17e

I definitely am looking at larger than 12cm which I guess is adult?
In terms of dirt they are similar to the goldfish then? Great to have someone who can compare them! I love orandas, I have butterfly tailed ryukins. So cute and smart. In terms of health my goldfish were very sensitive. What have you noticed in the discus health vs goldfish health?

What attracts me to the discus is their awesome colors.

[Gorf]

Very nice Discus fish at that website.

The poop is different between fancy goldfish & Discus. The Oranda poop seems to stay in the water for longer & gets sucked up by our filter intakes, or it's easy to pick up with a poop sucker. This means that there is very little poop in the tank to clean during the water changes. The Discus poop seems to stay in the tank & is more difficult to get with the poop sucker - I can never really get all of it.

Discus do seem to be healthier than the Orandas. I'm sure with your fish that you are always looking at them carefully to check if anything is wrong with them. The Discus, I suppose because they are a more natural fish, seem to be more healthy in general.

The Discus colours can be incredible. 12cm is around the same size as mine - sub-adult.

[SwissMiss]

Thank you for al the great info!
Yes, they have such lovely fish! I would like to get 2 fish of 6 different colors. That would be cool.
I will go visit the breeder. There is actually a fish show in a few weeks maybe I go there so I can see a bit of what they do.
Your fish is very beautiful, and looks pretty large already.

For sure the goldfish have so many issues because of the way they have been genetically changed from natural carp. The fatter they are the more beautiful but also the more swim bladder issues. Very intense. I will be happy to have fish I can just watch and enjoy instead of have to patrol for signs of illness!

[Gorf]

The breeder trip & the show will be very interesting for you.

Do you still have any of your goldfish?

[STHH]

I am keeping both discus and goldfishes too, in separate tanks of course.

Discus keeping is very similar to goldfish keeping. They stunt easily, and regular large water change will keep them trouble free.
Goldfish tank are usually bare bottom, as they eat plants, and can choke on pebbles and that will be similar to keeping juvenile discus too, bare bottom.

In terms of filtration requirements for these 2 types of fishes, stackable overhead filters is my choice. Easy to maintain, and the top layer sponge media used for mechanical filtration can be easily replaced, leaving the hardy japanese mat clean for the bio filtration.

When going near the tanks, both goldfishes and discus are very excited to greet you, esp if you throw in some tidbits for them every time you go near the tank.

Daily, weekly and monthly regiment is very similar for goldfish and discus. Water change, water change and more water change, lol.
End of the month, replace dirty sponge filter.

[SwissMiss]

I still have a smaller tank with some of the goldfish, but non of those are jumbo sized ones. They are some that I got at the beginning of the hobby. Little LFS ones who are pretty cute :)

I thought the discus would resemble the goldfish. Everyone is trying to scare me with the amount of water changes, but after having goldies that doesn't scare me!

[Gorf]

We do slightly more water changes with the Discus as the temperature is higher & they get raw meat. The discus tank gets 3x 50% changes per week & the Oranda tank gets 2x 50% changes. The Oranda tank water is crystal clear, when the Discus eat, they get food everywhere. It looks like a snowstorm in there sometimes! You won't find it more difficult though - as I think you realise. Just try to get your fish from a good source & remember to practise 100% quarantine between the two tanks.

[SwissMiss]

I have to tear down the tank now and sanitize everything. That will be fun.
Each tank has it's own hoses etc so cross contamination should be no issue.

I saw this tank which is amazing!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2dvaqeBz2E

I would like to put a thin layer of sand on the floor. Looks so pretty.

[Rudustin]

I have just started in the hobby as well and then went whole hog. Have a 120 gallon and a 65 and two 20 gallon tanks. All but one tank is filled with discus. I started with discus that were about four or five months old. They are growing very fast. Water changes are the key to healthy and growing discus. I use aged tap water in two fifty gallon containers and all tanks are bare bottomed. If you just keep in touch with this forum you will learn so much about how to deal with keeping these beautiful fresh water kings of fishes. They are majestic and actually have varied personalities starting as juveniles. Their behavior changes as they grow and they are cichlids and cichlids are territorial as adults and very offensive when eating. I have several feeding cups for blood worms in my 120 because it lowers the fighting. In a 240 gallon tank they will be stunning but I would suggest getting fish that are juveniles and if that works then go for it. If you live near a breeder that is credible then by all means go and look at the parents and the babies and decide on the color combinations you would like and bring them home. Everyone in this forum is so incredibly helpful and kind and there is no such thing as a stupid question. When in doubt ask or search for a thread in the search window at the top right of each thread and that should answer any questions you might have. I live in Miami Beach and we have exceptional water here for discus and the PH drops rather quickly so it is perfect for breeding but not good for juveniles because they need water rich in minerals and oxygen etc.. So frequent water changes are a must and the poop of discus is heavy and doesn't clear filters very well and must be constantly vacuumed up. You will perhaps make mistakes. I have made many including a recent mistake of trying to multi task and forgetting that I left water running in one of the water storage containers and left my apartment with the water over flowing until my door man called and said he had complaints that water was running down peoples windows but it wasn't raining. Luckily I got home in time and shut the water off but had to go and buy a wet/dry vacuum and clean up the mess in my bedroom! LOL! That is the least of the mistakes you will run into but many years ago we didn't have an internet when I tried to unsuccessfully to keep discus and I lived very near one of the icons of discus breeding Jack Wattley. It was so complicated then but not now. I wish you great luck in deciding that you want to keep discus. Best Regards.