Beware of Pigeon Strains from Hans

[David Bishop]

Hans silver pigeon blood discus will not look the same in a tank with dark substrate as it looks on his website. His pictures show beautiful fish without any peppering or freckling.

When I ordered I told Hans I did not want fish with freckling. He said Pigeons could have some freckling, but he would pic some good fish for me.

The longer I have this fish, the worse the freckling becomes. I hope you can click and see the picture. This fish is worse than the culls sold to LFS. I thought Hans was the premier breeder/dealer. I asked for a refund because I requested fish without freckling, but Hans refused. I will not order from Hans again.

[DLFL]

Here is a strain of pigeon blood from Hans called fire Red. I got it around a year ago.

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z97/DLFL/Discus/1a03baf1-a46e-4d37-9c00-dac1e7180748_zps8b64b06c.jpg (http://s191.photobucket.com/user/DLFL/media/Discus/1a03baf1-a46e-4d37-9c00-dac1e7180748_zps8b64b06c.jpg.html)

[SMB2]

Funny thing is, I have been to Hans "fish room" and seen every tank, with all ages/sizes and strains of discus. I never saw one fish that was peppered... curious.

[Elliots]

I have been to Hans and I think I saw very slight peppering on some fish, a few dots. It was not extensive or distasteful, I considered it normal for pigeons. Also my memory could be faulty because when I selected my fish I did not consider peppering at all.
I was more concerned with the blue stripes and body color. My pigeon derived fish all have slight peppering, it is OK with me I have not been to any other breeders or sponsors and I would not hesitate to buy fish there again with or without peppering.
I looked at the orig. posters photo and it did look like "Freckles" but it was on the body sides and the head area when my fish have some dots. That could be extensive peppering but the photo really looks like freckles.
I did not see any fish at Hans that looked like that photo and I think if Hans had a fish that looked like that he would not ship it. If that fish really came from Hans it went far downhill.

[Chicago Discus]

Silver Pigeons are a great strain these are some babies that spawned from Stendker Parents that I purchased from Hans a while ago the quality is amazing and the man just knows his $hit LOL......Josie



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poCuFXDE7wI

[Rudustin]

I have six silver pigeons from Hans and they are coloring up brilliantly! They are getting so silvery white. I have a BB sixty five gallon. How old is your fish and does it have any other companions? I have had them for almost two months now and they are growing rapidly and very healthy and very good eaters. I do water changes almost every day. I got them when they were 2.5 inches each. They are well over 3' now and I feed them four to five times a day. Hans is great and has continued to produce great fish and his customer service has been wonderful for me. I even got some Fire Reds from him about two weeks ago and they are even more beautiful than they are pictured on his site. I'm new but have read up on these fish before I got them. I also have some White Butterflies from Chicago Discus and they are not showing any peppering at all but they are now about 4 inches. I think the people that have suggested that you substrate is too dark are wise to tell you to get rid of it.

[Discus-Hans]

Thanks everybody for chiming in.

Trying to help somebody is in my nature and I try to solve problems and answer questions as fast as possible.

But if I get emails like:

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Bishop" <davidbishopsbc@yahoo.com>
To: <discus-hans@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 1:46 PM
Subject: Refund


Hans

I am going to euthanize this fish so it doesn't reproduce. You assured me that any freckling on your fish would be minor. I expect a refund of $50 for this fish. If you refuse I will post this picture online and warn people what your fish look like. I will also ask my credit card co to take back the funds.

David Bishop

While I told him:

From: Discus Hans
Sent: ‎Sunday‎, ‎September‎ ‎1‎, ‎2013 ‎6‎:‎09‎ ‎PM
To: DAVID BISHOP

Hi David


All pigeon type Discus can show some speckles or freckles, special in a tank with dark bottom and black back ground. It's just adjusting of them to their surrounding.
Stendker Discus are know to be very clean.


The Tefe's are not pigeon so will never show those speckles or freckles.


Tefe are something Stendker worked on for more as 20 years to create a Discus that looks close to a wild Tefe.
They are bred from selected Stendker Discus not wilds


Hope this helps


Hans
Discus Hans USA

Sent from my iPhone


I don't fall for blackmail and if you want to make a fool of yourself, go ahead, but don't ask me for help anymore.


Funny thing is that I made a movie from the tank with brothers and sisters where David's Silver Pigeon came from. Because he special requested no "freckels" I picked the best from this tank for him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_XcUsGWmoo

And this is all the time I want to spend on it, I got better things to do.

And Terps, I know deep in your hart you love me lol lol

[Second Hand Pat]

I have restored the livestock review of this thread. First hand experience posts only.

[DonMD]

Yep. All pigeons are susceptible to peppering. Even so, I had pigeons from Hans that had almost zero peppering, while their shape, color and size were fabulous. I now have Stendker Tefes reproducing like hotcakes, and as Hans said, zero peppering while lots of red and orange are showing. There will always be disgruntled buyers who expect something other than what they get, and are unwilling to look in the mirror for the reasons.

[Skip]

in my first hand experience from buying pb from hans..

out of the 5 i bought.. only peppering i saw was very minimal on one.. the fish were in a white bottom/back the entire time.

i also know that pb in a dark environment can help to progress peppering.. so i avoid it. stenkler fish are excellent..
i would never doubt HANS customer service nor his character..

[troysdiiscus]

My first hand experience from Hans.
I bought several from Hans, I bought a fire red about 3 inches he is now 5 to 5.5 and still growing. He had a few little specks on the front head which has cleared up.
Hans has always been a class act, calling me when my shipment arrived and always available if I had any questions. Grade A person and fish!!!!!

[John_Nicholson]

I have had numerous fish from Hans in the past and they have all been nice. I have probably had every color other than the Tefe and have never had any issues with any of them.

-john

[William Palumbo]

I have bought from Hans MANY times. Some of my BEST Discus came from him, hell, my best pairs came from him, or turned out to be from him. But realistically a bad fish can slip through. It happens...Bill

[Discus-Hans]

A bad fish shouldn't slip through but if it happens I will always take care of my customers. But not if I ship a good Discus that get messed up by the customer because he doesn't know what he's doing.

Hans

[Second Hand Pat]

First hand experience posts only please.

[mshen11]

to give hans credit... i was at his place when his supplies were low - he actually told me not to buy some of his stock because they had peppering. you dont get that often: "dont buy from me because the quality is not good". so he is not going to knowingly push something bad to you - especially if you made a point of your high expectation

[Discusdude7]

I bought a silver pigeon from hans a while back (avatar fish). It was my first time buying from a reliable person after having a TERRIBLE experience with an ex-sponsor. I called hans and asked if he could give me a fish with minimal to no peppering. He said he would pick a nice one for me, and that he did. I was shocked to see the amazing condition of this fish...it was Eating 5 minutes after being tanked. It was my first "nice" discus. A few minutes later Hans called to make sure everything was OK. AMAZING costumer service.I Would definitely buy from Hans again without hesitation.

[Discus-Hans]

Boys and girls (and John)

Thanks

Hans

More about this: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?109310-Beware-of-Pigeon-Strains

[nc0gnet0]

I have never recieved anything but quality fish from Han's. Suffice it to say that nobody cares more about the hobby than him. That being said, I would like to touch on something that has not yet been brought up:

Pigeon bloods all develop differently. Trust me on this, I have raised more than my fair share and have watched first hand how, and more importantly when, pepper can develop. I have seen fish that at 2" are quite peppered, turn into beutiful adults with very little peppering when full grown. I have also witnessed totally clean pigeon bloods at three inches develop pepper at 4". It happens. Great strides have been taken to insure this happens infrequently, but no one can totally gurantee a young juvenile pigeon blood will grow into a pepper free adult. IMO it just isn't possible. There will always be a small element of risk involved when buying juveniles. So what do you do? Either you take that risk, or buy an adult. As many before me have already suggested, there are do's and don'ts that will allow your pigeon blood to be the best it can be. So far you have failed miserably in providing it the proper environment to do so. To add to this problem your intial email to Hans started out trying to blackmail/extort the good man. My hat off to Hans, he handled it much better than I would have.


-Rick

[troysdiiscus]

Want to share one more first hand experience with Hans. When I was a newbie, I called Hans and sure that I bugged him to death and I KNOW he was a very busy man but he always took time out to talk to me and answer questions He offered suggestions on how to better prepare and what to expect with my first order. When Fed ex was late due to weather issues, he contacted them and then me to let me know what was going on. I have been in retail for 23 years and this is an example of going above and beyond customer service!!! Because this is in the thread its in, dont want to cross the line with Pat, Ryan and others if you want to open another thread can explain it better. Not to bash you but to let you know why and where it went totally wrong for you if you dont know.

[Chicago Discus]

I have purchased many Discus from Hans and have had fun hanging out with him and forming a great friendship with the man. I would definitely call him one of my good friends and a very trustworthy person.
Mr. Bishop to sit here and attack the Forum because you were not happy with the way your Discus is growing is not the Forums fault. There is a review section on the Forum that people have posted great things about other suppliers not connected with this Forum. But to sit here and say that Sponsors are protected from negative feedback because we are sponsors is extremely offensive and not what this Forum is all about. There have been many Sponsors that have sold less that adequate discus that are no longer on this Forum because they didn't make the cut. We Sponsors on this Forum go over and beyond the call of customer service and make sure that people are happy with are fish they purchase. ENOUGH
Josie

[yim11]

Love the fish I get from Hans, and I have gotten many!!!

[David Bishop]

BTW- The shipping, handling, and health of Han's fish on arrival were outstanding!