ph levels.

[princess]

Hello, I have set up a tank for discus, I have three. I was wondering what the ph levels, ideally should be? Thanks

[musicmarn1]

PH needs to be constant, so ageing the water with an air stone or water pump helps it off gas and stabilise. What you should do is test your pH out of the tap and then after ageing/agitating overnight and post the results. Can you get a TDS reading or conductivity? I have ph 8.2 and TDS of 500 so as long as its constant your good. Just dont use any pH up or down "shudder" they need it to stay constant.

Younger discus need more minerals and older discus are fine and probably happier in lower but it seems these days domestic, not wild discus can be in anything and thrive! How old are yours? Where did you get them? What size tank do you have? What kind are they?

[troysdiiscus]

aslong as it is consistant, meaning does your ph swing up or down after you age it? If you keep it consistant that is key. It could be 6 to 8.4 but has to be the same. If you have not got them yet ask the breeder what there water levels are and you will know how to acclimate them when its time. I am also guessing there not wilds...

[Gorf]

3 Discus is not really enough.

What is your tank size & could you post your full water test results?

Can we see a pic? :)

[princess]

Wow, everyone here is so friendly, thank you for responding so fast. O.k so I have a small 15 gallon hexagon tank, I purchased my discus from a friend in the area. I am not sure what type they are to be honest. However, we have lost one already, :( yesterday. The other three are now exhibiting the same behavior, not eating, hiding, they use to come right out when I came over, and ate bloodworms from my hand, etc... full of life, curious, and fun to watch. Today, they are hiding, and look very unhappy. I do have an air stone running for aeration. Not sure what I can do for them, but thought maybe the water levels were not good. Here are my results, GH 120, KH 40-80, PH 6.0-6.5, NO2 0, and NO3 is 40. Not really sure what all of this means. I would love to send pics, not sure how. I should also mention, we have had them now for about 3 to 4 wks or longer, and they have been doing amazing, the little one that died, seemed to be unwell about a wk after we got him. The other three almost overnight.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi there! =)

In a tank that small you'll need to change the water twice a day to keep them healthy and lively.

How big are they?

How often do you feed them?

How often were you changing water?

If you're using tap water, what's the pH of the tap water?

[Gorf]

Hi again

Have you ever kept fish before? Do you understand the need to treat tap water? Also do you understand why water changes are done & how to water change?

Thank you for the test results. Were these done with test strips or liquid? Did you do the tests yourself?

I would like to add that we are here to help you & have the best interest of your fish at heart. A Nitrate figure of 40ppm is a little too high for Discus. You reduce this figure by increasing your water change frequency/percentage. How much & how often are you changing at the moment? What sort of filter do you have in your tank?

Discus are a fish that like to be in groups. The reason for this is that they can argue with each other & a larger number of Discus means that there's not just one fish that gets picked-on. Generally the minimum is about 6. The larger the tank the easier it is to maintain because if anything goes wrong with the water, it goes wrong more slowly. We can give you lots of tips on how to water change.

[princess]

Hi there, yes we have another 55 gallon tank full of cichlids that are doing amazing. We have had tanks many yrs ago but have forgotten some details I am sure. I have been on the hunt for a bigger tank. The tap water is from our River, and there is no chlorine in it at all. Yes, we are familiar with water changes. These tests were done with strips. We have only had the tank up and running for a short time, so have not done a water change yet. I take it we should. :) The filter is a aqua clear mini. So even in a small tank, I should have more fish?

[strawberryblonde]

Before you start adding more discus, can you answer my questions from my previous post? It's important to know the answers so that we can give you proper information. =)

In addition to those questions, how did you cycle your filter to prepare it for the new discus?

[princess]

Two of them are small, and one is fairly big, have not changed water yet, and I dont know what you mean by how did we cycle the filter, I cannot believe I need to change the entire tank water twice a day, thats crazy. I feed them depending on there enthusiasm, they were eating really well, and at that point we were feeding them small amounts 3 or 4 times a day, making sure not to overfeed, now they are barely touching anything.

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, here's the basics on discus care. If there are parts you already know, just nod your head and roll your eyes, but for the purposes of this post, I'm gonna lay it all out, ok? =)

Basic Discus Care:

1) You need a tank large enough to provide clean water for them for at least 12 hours at a time. Adult discus require 10 gallons of water each. With juveniles you can get away with slightly less than that, but must do more water changes in order to keep the water quality pristine for maximum growth and health.

2) A juvenile discus is any discus under the age of about 10 months and in size would be anything less than 4". Some grow faster and may reach 4" long before 10 months of age, but they are still juvies in my eyes.

3) A sub-adult discus is any discus less than 2 years old and between 4" - 9". If they have more growing to do, they aren't "adults" yet. They may start breeding much sooner than the 2 year mark, but still have the potential to grow, fill out and gain weight.

4) An adult discus is any discus over 2 years old. If raised properly they will reach anywhere from 6" - 9". If they aren't raised properly they will most likely end up stunted, with large eyes and smaller bodies.

5) ALL discus require great water quality. Much cleaner than almost any other tropical fish you've ever owned. (Rams may be the exception) Ammonia and Nitrites should be zero, and Nitrates should optimally be 5ppm - at most 10ppm. If they go higher than that, do a large water change!

Juvenile Discus Care:

1) Raise them in a bare bottom tank (painted white on the bottom to eliminate reflections) for easiest care and the cleanest water.

2) Change their water at least once a day if the tank is large enough for 10g per discus. If smaller than that, do 2 water changes per day.

3) When they are less than 4", you need to be sure to wipe down the sides and bottom of the tank at each water change (or every other change if you have a "lazy" day).

4) Rinse the filter media in a bucket of used tank water a few times a week to be sure that no food is collecting in it and rotting...which fouls the water quality.

5) Feed small amounts of high quality, high protein foods as many times a day as you can, but aim for 5-6 feedings if possible. An auto feeder to offer them flakes during the day is a great way to get in those extra feedings. They grow REALLY fast and need constant food in order to get their caloric needs met.

6) Feed a variety of foods in order to assure that they are getting all the vitamins, minerals, protein, carbs and fats that they need. You can offer discus flakes, spirulina flakes, freeze dried foods and frozen beefheart. Increase the amount you offer as they grow.

Once they reach 4+" you can move them to a display tank and add a fine layer of sand, some driftwood or potted plants for decor, etc. But just remember that with the added "stuff" in the tank there will be more places for poop and uneaten food to hide, so you need to keep up with water changes. When the water quality drops, they get sick...simple as that.

Ok, so having said all of that, there will be plenty of people who will tell you that you don't need to change that much water, or that you can get away with a fully decorated tank. There's even some disagreement on how often to feed and what to feed. I've just outlined a really basic plan that works. I've used it to raise my batches of discus and can tell you that the results you get are worth the effort you put into it.

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You asked about cycling your filter. The filter contain beneficial bacteria that converts harmful ammonia and nitrites so that they don't poison your discus. The first type of bacteria eats the ammonia and excretes nitrites. The second beneficial bacteria uses the nitrites and excretes Nitrates.

Normally you would "cycle" your filter media in order to seed it with both types of beneficial bacteria before you add fish to the tank. That's called a fishless cycle.

So we still need more info in order to figure out if your tank is cycled. Did you receive the tank, filter and discus all from the same person at the same time? Was it a new tank and filter and then you bought the discus?

And my last question (for now)...I promise... =) When you say that two are small and one is larger, can you estimate the actual length of them for me? Nickel size, quarter size, 3" long, etc.

Oh and yep, you're going to need to do 2 water changes per day for the time being. You need to get the water quality up so that they can hopefully recover on their own and not get sick.

[troysdiiscus]

Well again Toni has detailed everything. you go girl.....Now you say changing the entire water in a 15 gallon tank is twice a day is "crazy", did you do any research on how to care for discus before you got them? If not then thats crazy only because they are not your guppy, goldfish and SA and African cichlids. I hope you follow Toni's outline and if not I am afraid the rest will follow the results of the one that didnt make it. I am pulling for you but you must have the desire and with that comes the hard work to get the great results. Not trying to be negative but it is the facts, this forum is here for you....good luck

[princess]

Wow, easy there troysdiiscus, now I remember why I dont join forums. Looking for friendly helpful advice, not condemnation. Yes, we have had discus before, many many yrs ago, just asking for some gentle reminders, thanks to Strawberryblonde and Gorf it was not a complete disappointment.

[troysdiiscus]

princess, I was not trying to be, if I came across that way I apologize. That was not my intent.

[princess]

Thank you. Apology accepted.

[princess]

so tonight, we changed the water, we noticed that when we fed them before the change, they were attacking the food like they were hungry but then spitting it out immediatley, also the one is swimming on a tilt. The sizes are, 2 of them are about 2" across, and the big one is maybe 3".

[strawberryblonde]

I've seen my discus spit food after taking a bite...happens often. They don't have teeth, so they take a big bite, spit, suck it back in, spit again, etc which breaks it into small enough pieces for them to swallow.

Now if the bits you fed were tiny, then they might be refusing food, which isn't a good thing.

Just work on water quality for a week and see if that corrects the issues you're seeing.

[zimmjeff]

Didn't see an answer to gravel or bare bottom. Jeff

[princess]

gravel bottom

[princess]

ok so two days of changing half the water each day. The three seem to be stable, they are eating as I feed them the bloodworms from my hand, but nothing that drops. They only eat for about 30 seconds, and then stop but atleast they are eating. The one does not seem to be tilted anymore. Thanks, and so appreciate this site and the input.

[troysdiiscus]

Hey princess, this may have been answered, so if so sorry, is the tank bottom painted?

[princess]

no i have gravel

[Gorf]

Toni gave you some good basic info earlier.

So you have juvenile Discus. The juvenile can be a labour of love to look after as they need perfect water with lots of big water changes. They also need good regular feedings up to 4 times per day. They are very sensitive to toxins in the water such as Ammonia & Nitrites, also things like air fresheners in the room. They also need a minimum of Nitrates in the water. It is the Nitrates that are controlled with water changes. So you adjust your water change frequency so that Nitrates are 5ppm at the worst point.

Can you let us know how often & how much water you are changing?
I have 6 sub-adult Discus in a 260 litre tank. I water change 50% 3 times a week.

How do you actually change the water, what is the method?
For myself, the day before my water change, I fill a 120 litre food safe tub with water from my HMA filter. My HMA filter removes Chlorine & heavy metals, so that I don't need to add chemicals. I then circulate the water in the barrel with a small pump. The day of the water change, I turn on a heater in the barrel & heat the water to the same level as in the tank - which is 28°C. I do the water change late afternoon & first start by wiping the top half of the inside of the glass with a mild algae pad. I then turn off the heaters & reduce the flow on the filters. I then use my water syphon gravel cleaner & hoover any poop & leftover food from the sand & plants, emptying it into a bucket. My wife then uses the buckets to water our plants as we go. I have 2 buckets, so can be filling one, while my wife is emptying the other. I have my filter inlets set to be half way down the tank, so the point when the water almost reaches the inlets, I stop syphoning. I keep the last 2 buckets of tank water nearby. I then use the algae pad & wipe the remaining 50% of the glass that is still underwater. I also stir up the sand a little & attend to the plants if needed. I then run a long hose from my water barrel to the tank & hook it over the top of the tank ready to fill it. I turn on the pump in the barrel & turn off the barrel heater. This then starts to refill my tank. While it is filling, I shut down each filter one at a time & give the mechanical media a clean in the buckets I have saved. If you have sponge mechanical media, just a swish in the water will be enough & physically pick out any bit of grubbiness in there. I have a Fluval G3 filter, so I use a brush on the filter media. I then turn back on the filters at low flow. Once the water has filled up to the heater low-water marks, I turn on the tank heaters. Then once the water has filled the tank, I turn off the barrel pump & turn my filters to full flow. This operation takes an hour from start to finish, a regular type of filter may take longer to service.