Do you need to add traces?

[tat]

Hello,

I have a 330L aquarium with the following conditions:

330Liters (120cms x 55cm x 50cm)
PH=6.8
KH=2
GH=3
TDS=110 (not sure if pen is calibrated)
NO3=10
NO2=0
T=28ºC
Weekly 50% WC (rested tap water)
Feed 2x per day.

My discus are growing very very slow.
My LFS suggested me to try Seachem Discus trace. According to him, my water might not have enough minerals to let my discus grow well.

What is your opinion?

Thanks

[Chicago Discus]

No up your water changes and they will grow ....Josie

[Chicago Discus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_W8pxlqtcPo

Do this everyday

[Chicago Discus]

And you will get this....No secrets....JOSIE



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFyUEzfW1fk

[discuspaul]

No up your water changes and they will grow ....Josie

Absolutely - that's the ticket.

[joanstone]

Along with doing more water changes, what are you feeding them? I would make sure they are getting a good variety of food more than two times per day.

[tat]

I am feeding dry food on the morning (granulate or flakes) and frozen food at night (artemia or special discus food from stendker).

I understand, there is no point adding the traces to the water, basically what I need is to do more frequent water changes, even if my tap water is a little soft.
That is a pitty, because I really do not have conditions to make more water changes, I have no time and money available to increase WCs.

[Gorf]

How are you protecting against Chlorine & Chloramines?

[tat]

My water is rested 7 days.
Isn't enough?

Thanks

[lipadj46]

My water is rested 7 days.
Isn't enough?

Thanks

That's too long, 24 hours is long enough

sent from an undisclosed location using morse code

[tat]

But there is any problem using 7 days water? Can water be to old for discus?

I have a 200L container, that I refill just after I make the WC.

[Nu2Discus]

I think if you wait 7 days, and your water only has chlorine, the chlorine will dissipate. But then with no chlorine, you are letting bacteria build up in there before you use the water. If you have chloramines, you can wait forever and most of the chloramine will still be there. On top of that, if some of the chloramine does break down, it will release ammonia.

You'd probably be better served to age the water for a day, add prime, and then do your water change. Can you at least do two water changes a week rather than one?

[lipadj46]

But there is any problem using 7 days water? Can water be to old for discus?

I have a 200L container, that I refill just after I make the WC.

I would be afraid that bacteria would build up in the water and you would get ammonia in the water. Test it for ammonia. are you agitating the water in any way during this time or is the water sitting still for 7 days?

[Bill63SG]

I am feeding dry food on the morning (granulate or flakes) and frozen food at night (artemia or special discus food from stendker).

I understand, there is no point adding the traces to the water, basically what I need is to do more frequent water changes, even if my tap water is a little soft.
That is a pitty, because I really do not have conditions to make more water changes, I have no time and money available to increase WCs.

I understand the time,but not the money factor in water changes.At once a week,youll have to be satisfied with slow growing,not reach thier full size discus.If your only doing it on the weekend,try changing water on both days.With an airstone,24hrs is long enough to age your water.

[tat]

I would be afraid that bacteria would build up in the water and you would get ammonia in the water. Test it for ammonia. are you agitating the water in any way during this time or is the water sitting still for 7 days?

Yes, I have a small pump inside the container. I will test it for ammonia.

[tat]

I understand the time,but not the money factor in water changes.At once a week,youll have to be satisfied with slow growing,not reach thier full size discus.If your only doing it on the weekend,try changing water on both days.With an airstone,24hrs is long enough to age your water.

Tap water is around 20ºC, while aquarium water is 28ºC.
I don't have exact figures, but I would say you need a 100W heater turned on 6/8 hours to heat 150L of water. And there is also the cost of water (let's forget dechlorinator and traces)

From the answers I get, it seems increasing water changes is the solution for everything. And I guess it is!
But we all live in different contexts, and what seems easy for one persons, is just not feasible for another.
Being clever is finding alternative ways to reach the same goal.

Cheers.

[Bill63SG]

Lots of clean water can fix alot of problems with discus.See what you can do.sounds like your fish are doing "ok".If you can only do it once a week,change as much as you can.

[Chicago Discus]

Water changes are a necessary part (IMO) when trying grow out discus. You can feed crap food and still get good results. Now I'm not saying to feed bad food but the key to good growth is water changes. Believe me if there was another way to grow them out without the daily water changes then I would do it. There are many fish out there that grow and do great without water changes but Discus are not one of them......Josie

[Gorf]

Chlorine is added by the water company to kill bacteria. if you age the water for too long, the Chlorine will dissipate & you will be left with stale water that may start to develop bacteria if yo don't keep the container sterile. Also, if your water company use Chloramines (have you checked?) then these will not dissipate & you will still poison your fish.

Best to age for a day, add Prime, then use.

[nc0gnet0]

guppies.....

[tat]

guppies.....

Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer.
Muhammad Ali

[tat]

Chlorine is added by the water company to kill bacteria. if you age the water for too long, the Chlorine will dissipate & you will be left with stale water that may start to develop bacteria if yo don't keep the container sterile. Also, if your water company use Chloramines (have you checked?) then these will not dissipate & you will still poison your fish.

Best to age for a day, add Prime, then use.

I understand.
According to the water quality report, they are not using Chloramines. Anyway, I will take that in consideration, and might start using Prime.

Thanks for your help

[timmy82]

The only other thing that may improve things slightly is the use of hydrogen peroxide (health shop grade) That will boost the amount of oxygen saturtion the water can retain. I only just received my D/O meter and have been working on putting up some ratios on my thread I think I put it in the water works section. I have heard of people in filtered bore water using this as the oxygen saturation levels can be 40%. I have a PDF link on the thread of reportings of different saturation levels and correct feed ratio's vs growth and that stated that between 80% - 120% D/O has the best results. I am currently keeping a batch of 33 17 day old Alenquer fry in 85% - 90% D/O and haven't had any losses even after removing off parents 3 days ago.

[John_Nicholson]

Silence is golden when you can't think of a good answer.
Muhammad Ali


In his own way he is givnig great advice but you will have to open your ears to hear it. What he is saying is you will not get the results that you are looking for with the constraints that you are working with, You either need to find a way to change more water. Something like 50% once a day or you need to consider getting rid of your discus and getting some fish that will do well with once a week water changes.

-john

[tat]

In his own way he is givnig great advice but you will have to open your ears to hear it. What he is saying is you will not get the results that you are looking for with the constraints that you are working with, You either need to find a way to change more water. Something like 50% once a day or you need to consider getting rid of your discus and getting some fish that will do well with once a week water changes.

-john

Ok John, since I have no conditions to change 150Liters of water every day, I will just sell all my discus and buy a zillion guppies :)

Cheers

[Chicago Discus]

Ok John, since I have no conditions to change 150Liters of water every day, I will just sell all my discus and buy a zillion guppies :)

Cheers

No don't be sore, I think what people are saying is that Trace elements are useless in a Discus tank. Water changes are the most important when trying to grow out discus. daily water changes really stimulate the growth of the fish and keep them really healthy during the growth process. If you cant change the water daily in your tank then just purchase larger discus because they are not as demanding then young ones :)

[John_Nicholson]

I love it when people ask for advice, are given solid advice, and then get unhappy because it was not what they wanted to hear. You posted because your fish were not growing like you wanted them to. You were given the reason and the cure. If you do not want to do that fine. It makes no difference to me. They are your fish. If your goal is simply to keep them alive then keep doing what you are doing. If you want them to thrive you will do something different. And beside guppies are really be cool if you get quality ones....LOL.

-john

[tat]

No one is unhappy John.
I truly appreciate the great advises I have been receiving on this forum.

The basic question on this topic, was if it worth adding discus trace on a soft tap water. I conclude I should save the money.

I already accepted I have no conditions to grow juvenile discus, and for that reason, I bought the last 3 discus with 10/11 cms. Nevertheless i would love to see them grow to a fully adult sizes.
But if they don't, I perfectly accept it. I like them anyway, and from my understanding they look happy and healthy.

Cheers

[dirtyplants]

Where are you located?

[tat]

Where are you located?

I am from Portugal-Lisbon.

(I am sorry if my English is not all that good)