Advise regarding using river water as tank water? Australia based River

[Kerrie]

Hi everyone,
I am thinking of buying an acreage property that has full access to the Burnett river near Gin Gin, Queensland. I was thinking of using the river water, looks good (waiting on environ. report), pH and gH are good.
My thoughts are to pump to the holding tanks in the shed then use the water directly for continual water changes using an overflow type set up, with the waste being channeled along a concrete open culvert back into a nearby dam which will be used as toilet water and watering the grass, and maybe stock occasionally in the home paddock.

Firstly Does anyone currently use a simple system like this for raising fish?
Can anyone give me any advise on treating the water before it goes into the tanks, especially concerning parasites.
Does this look like it will be effective and cost efficient way to raise discus and L numbers?
What would be the best way to heat the water up to temp? Inside tank heating or having the tanks in a heated room?
Any other ways to do this differently, more effectively?
Thanks in advance,
Kerrie

[timmy82]

Kerrie I wouldn't use the river water without the use of ozone treatment and filtration. There are laws you will have watch out for too in pumping out of a river. As for heating I would run a heap of black polly pipe on the roof and have a thermostat controled circulation pump. I am in Townsville and getting closer to finishing the construction on my fish room it is insulated and I will run a reverse cycle split to climate cobtrol the room.

[John_Nicholson]

The trouble that I see is you have no clue what kind of illness you might introduce to your system. You would probably need to look into something to sterilize the water coming in. Maybe use ozone or UV. I would consult some sort of water purification expert before starting this task.

Good luck.

-john

[nc0gnet0]

It could be done, sterilzation would be an issue, but could be overcome. After all is said and done, well water might be a better option, but I am not familuar with the economics of water as it applies to Australia. The legality of what you propose would be what I first checked into before I went any farther with it.

[pastry]

Not trying to be a smart@$$ but how funny would it be if cops came to arrest you, then you ask what for, and they try to tell you while choking down chuckles, "For taking water from the river"

That aside, if you have some full-up and going permanent contraption going from the water to the house then I'm sure that wouldn't look good to authorities. Otherwise, if no ones looking and it's not permanent... might be a fun experiement. Might also be a costly experiment if you don't have many discus to use for said experiment...

Now, one last thing... I have to confess that I got my substrate from a nearby beach (well maybe I did... maybe I didn't ;) ). I later found out that it was illegal to steal sand from the beach! I could only imagine my wife & I telling our friends how we got arrested stealing sand from the beach :p (well, we'd probably get a citation but arrested would make for a better story)

[Skip]

There are some Asian breeders that take water from streams for tanks.. and the dump the water back into the streams.. Good Golly!. Can you imagine ..
Not only what you bring in.. but what you could send back out..

[Second Hand Pat]

Here in Florida I am on a lake and we are allowed to pump from the lake for irrigation use. So there could be "allowed" uses for river water for farm related purposes. Something to perhaps check into if this is the route you choose to take, but all honestly, the tap is just so much easier to use.

[nc0gnet0]

Diversion of river waters is generally not looked upon favorably for commercial and or personal use. I am sure some exceptions do apply based on where you live and what type of permit you will need, but the fines can be quite substantial. Especially when the diversion is for use on a non-native fish operation. Granted there is little chance of your discus escaping and populating the river, but agencies tend to error on the side of caution in these regards do to the numerous tragedys and ecological disasters of the past. I am almost certain that legal use of the river water would require permits as well as inspections. Using lake water to irragate your lawn is one thing, but river water to supply a fish farm ( I only say that as most likely that is how "they" will look at it) quite another.

It is this very thing that led to the flying asain carp fiasco we are now experiancing in the states.

[pastry]

Diversion of river waters is generally not looked upon favorably for commercial and or personal use. I am sure some exceptions do apply based on where you live and what type of permit you will need, but the fines can be quite substantial. Especially when the diversion is for use on a non-native fish operation. Granted there is little chance of your discus escaping and populating the river, but agencies tend to error on the side of caution in these regards do to the numerous tragedys and ecological disasters of the past. I am almost certain that legal use of the river water would require permits as well as inspections. Using lake water to irragate your lawn is one thing, but river water to supply a fish farm ( I only say that as most likely that is how "they" will look at it) quite another.

It is this very thing that led to the flying asain carp fiasco we are now experiancing in the states.

While agree with the importance of ensuring native species are protected from any instances of non-native species (i.e.-asian carp & even the snakeheads up & down the U.S. East Coast), I think that's a little extreme in this case. The carp were kept outside and flooding screwed that whole thing up. The OP is just talking about using river water. I know you state where it sounds extreme to think that way but then at the end when you bring up the asian carp example then you kind of (hate to say) contradict yourself (first saying it's extreme to think that way but then in the end using an extreme example to say that's how the very thing led to...).

[nc0gnet0]

I know you state where it sounds extreme to think that way but then at the end when you bring up the asian carp example then you kind of (hate to say) contradict yourself (first saying it's extreme to think that way but then in the end using an extreme example to say that's how the very thing led to...).

I have done no such thing, I was not saying the two were comparable, but rather how the governing agency might view it, not myself. Ie. diversion of water for non-native fish.


My thoughts are to pump to the holding tanks in the shed then use the water directly for continual water changes using an overflow type set up, with the waste being channeled along a concrete open culvert back into a nearby dam which will be used as toilet water and watering the grass, and maybe stock occasionally in the home paddock.

Maybe I am reading this wrong but to me it appears a pathway exists in which a non native fish could hypothetically escape into the river. Be it a discus, or whatever fish the OP is stocking in the home paddock? Occasionally, dams do break and or overflow.

[pastry]

"Granted there is little chance of your discus escaping and populating the river, but agencies tend to error on the side of caution...", yep, I agree with you there, but then you ended it with, "It is this very thing that led to the flying asain carp fiasco we are now experiancing in the states". It was this last part that I thought was extreme for comparisons. Anyhow, definitely don't want to debate the heck out of it but just letting you know where I was confused.

As for the second part of your last post, I definitely understand you on the second part (where you quote about the channeled water, etc.). Read that too fast earlier and agree for sure.

Overall, I think it'd be an interesting experiment to see someone use some river water just to see what happens but yeah, I wouldn't do any sort of permanent concoction or mix back in anything from the tanks to the native waters.

[John_Nicholson]

I would not worry about discus taking over the river but I would worry about them giving some sort of a non-native pathogen to the native fish.

-john

[troysdiiscus]

What?? Flying Domestic Discus??? :confused: haha guess that is what would happen if they got out.....lol.... interesting.....

[pastry]

Well I'm not trying to poke fun or frustrate nc0gnet, and definitely think similarly, but I guess what John said is closer to what I was thinking. at the same time, even non agressive species (like discus) can screw up a foreign (to discus) ecosystem.

[nc0gnet0]

I would not worry about discus taking over the river but I would worry about them giving some sort of a non-native pathogen to the native fish.

-john

Nor would I, just not so sure local officials would feel the same. If pumping water from the river to holding tanks is allowed best bet would be to run through a sediment filter then chlorinate the holding tanks, let sit for 24 hours, dechlorinate and use.

[William Palumbo]

LOL...taking water from the river...filtering it thru a sediment filter, chlorinating it, ozone, and UV...*** is actually being accomplished? What are you saving? Don't understand why people feel the need to over complicate things...Bill

[Skip]

Op.. where do u live

[Kerrie]

Hi everyone,
Sorry for not clarifying, the property I am thinking of buying has a 3megalitre water pumping entitlement for agricultural and private use. Tap water isn't an option as there is no town water available. The fish room,now will be a former insulated, closed in with openable air flow walls, packing shed used presently for fruit, and is powered by a 10kw solar system on gel batteries. Would disease be a problem if the water was pumped as Timmy said through black plastic heating the water above say 40c, then into a steel holding/ storage tank before aging/ mixing with cooler water before being gravity feed slowly through a uv light into a drip type arrangement above the tank that constantly refreshed the water 24 hours a day. Water from the overflows would be a constant trickle, not flood of water out through the over flow to a main feeder pipe, before exiting the shed. It would then travel approx 150 meters along a concrete drainage shallow culvert into a storage dam for waste water storage ( not stocked with fish) for use in irrigation of the gardens and toilet flushing. There might be livestock present at some times of the year but only in small numbers as the dam is located in a spare horse paddock. There is virtually no chance of return of the water to the river as the dam is not physically connected by any piping or at risk of any flooding bar a huge natural disaster.
Cheers and thanks so very much for the great feed back, it does help tremendously to talk through plans from others perspective, and see things you didn't think of.

[nc0gnet0]

With proper filtration and sterilization it should'nt be a problem, the main concern as I see it is not the water you take out (it seems you already have the permits to do so) but rather any water you put back into the river (and it seems that is also a non concern, without getting into 100 year flood plains and the like).

[timmy82]

Hi everyone,
Sorry for not clarifying, the property I am thinking of buying has a 3megalitre water pumping entitlement for agricultural and private use. Tap water isn't an option as there is no town water available. The fish room,now will be a former insulated, closed in with openable air flow walls, packing shed used presently for fruit, and is powered by a 10kw solar system on gel batteries. Would disease be a problem if the water was pumped as Timmy said through black plastic heating the water above say 40c, then into a steel holding/ storage tank before aging/ mixing with cooler water before being gravity feed slowly through a uv light into a drip type arrangement above the tank that constantly refreshed the water 24 hours a day. Water from the overflows would be a constant trickle, not flood of water out through the over flow to a main feeder pipe, before exiting the shed. It would then travel approx 150 meters along a concrete drainage shallow culvert into a storage dam for waste water storage ( not stocked with fish) for use in irrigation of the gardens and toilet flushing. There might be livestock present at some times of the year but only in small numbers as the dam is located in a spare horse paddock. There is virtually no chance of return of the water to the river as the dam is not physically connected by any piping or at risk of any flooding bar a huge natural disaster.
Cheers and thanks so very much for the great feed back, it does help tremendously to talk through plans from others perspective, and see things you didn't think of.

Right now we back on track the one issue was if you had the correct permits and you do so all set. I will look further into a strong Ozone machine for the pre treatment to ansure you end up with good bugless water. I would also include a filtration set up before the water hits the tank. A course prescreen on the inlet of the pump in the river. Then some cheap 100 micron sediment followed by some 20 or less micron filters. Talk with Peter @ PSI filters they are really good and have wide range of systems. As for getting the water hot in pre treatment I wouldn't worry about that I would only pre heat to 27C for the cooler winter months where the river will be less than 20c I would guess. In townsville winter water only get down to 23c so during then I more run my system on the over flow rather than dump and fill. Just send me a PM if you want any other details or info.

[Kerrie]

Sounds like the way to go Timmy, I will look into ozone cleaners. Would have thought sediment cleaning would be easier as a back wash from the tank it self, will think about the sediment more. I thought heating the water before the tank would kill most pathogens in the piping before they get to the tank? This probably would be redundant with an ozone machine? I was thinking in by using constant water changing rather than dump and fill the water would stay a constant temp in the heated room? Will definitely get some more help in the coming months Timmy, thank for the help.
Cheers
Kerrie

[dirtyplants]

I am thinking about the ozone which kills all good and bad. Yes you need to control parasites but you could use some good bacteria. What does the local water department use for water purification? These guys could also be a good source of info regarding the parasites and pollution contained in your river. What is the river's source? Is this a fast moving river? What is the outlet of this river. Check with your neighbors, I live in WI USA and although well populated I found many who live in small towns whose property which has a stream that runs through it use it to divert their sewer wastes into it although it is illegal. As far as the piping is concerned, make sure it does not degrade with heat, and has no lead in it.
As far as the Asian Carp post, I live in the Mid West were we are trying to keep this baby out. This tends to be a problem where we import critters and get tired of them for what ever reason and dump them into to the lake assuming they will not live long. Responsible aquarists would never dump adaptable predators or plants into a local habitat. The plants tend to get into the waste water and sewers and into our waters. Many of the invasive species have come in attached to boats like the Zebra Mussel. Check your list of dos and don'ts, of what is legal and illegal to own or dump into your waters. If it can't survive in your seasonal and habitat conditions it probably will not be on the invasive list.