Day three

[bluepill]

Hi There,

It's my first post and I am a Discus noob from the UK. I imagine what I'm about to say is a very common thing but hopefully you guys can help!

I have been keeping my 60L community tank for several years with a couple of angels and dwarf gourami etc. It's been going great and I was feeling pretty confident so I decided to get a second tank.

I bought a Juwel Vision 180L, filled it with dechlorinated tap water jump started the filter media with something like nutrafin cycle (It wasn't that but similar I forget the name). 48hrs or so later as instructed by my LFS I added 5 danios to help the filter get on with creating my beneficial bacteria. After 2 weeks of testing the water every day and very stable readings I decided to do what I had always planned for the tank - get six discus. I have read up on keeping these guys before buying and I have kept it a very simple bare bottom tank. (The danios are perfectly happy swimming about in my other tank)

Before discus:
Temp 28.5
PH 6.5
Ammonia 0
Nitrate 5

I travelled to one of the best discus stockists in my area (not my LFS) and came home with six 3/3.5 inch assorted blue/red turks the choice was amazing but my budget was limited. We got home, I introduced the fish and they immediately seemed pretty skittish. They were dark and trying to hide all together in the corner of the tank most of the time. We had been given some beefheart mix and told to feed them five times a day. They had a peck at the first small cube we added but it basically sat on the bottom of the tank.

I also have some bogwood in a kinda tree shape, it won't sink and i'd tied it to a flat rock to help it stay on the floor. This accidentally slipped off while i was cleaning the gravel and the discus went nuts. Couple of them tried a vertical exit of the tank and a bit of furious swimming but they eventually calmed down. Their colour returned after about ten minutes so I switched off the light and left them to chill out.

I went to work this morning without checking on them and got a call from my girlfriend in tears because they were all gasping at the top of the tank for air. Disaster. Two died. Devastated. It's 10 am and i can't leave work to sort it out. I told my GF to get the air bubbly thingy and try to aerate the tank with an air stone. She would not really have known how to go about doing a WC but her quick actions did save four of the six. The survivors were looking alright when I got home at six. However on testing the water chemistry seemed drastically different. (These are not test strips they're relatively new bottled ones)

Temp 28.5
PH 7.0
Ammonia .25
Nitrate 25

I did a 50% WC and levels went back to normal. The discus seem very timid though and just putting the gravel cleaner in there they go dark and hide in the tree. Other than not scaring them to death did I make any other rookie mistakes?

Thanks for any advice in advance!

[troysdiiscus]

Hey bluepill and welcome to the forum from across the pond!
Looks like you got a spike with the added bio load when the discus was introduced. So do you use tap or well water? Do you use a dechlorinator like prime, safe etc... before you do a water change? What are you readings from your tap on ammonia nitrite and ammonia? Also you left out your nitrite readings. What type of filteration are you running? Now you say gravel cleaner but you are BB (bare bottom) right? also if you are is the bottom, sides and back of your tank painted?

They will be skiddish till they settle in and that can take weeks or months till the settle down. Also I would remove that tree in there if it were me, that kinda promotes them to hide. Now sudden movements and shadows on the tank will also spook them. So low lighting, slow movement will help. Also for now I would lightly feed with flake food FDBW so that it doesnt fowl up your water.

Dont know that your tank was fully cycled or its going through a mini cycle with the added discus. So staying up on large WC is going to be key...

[bluepill]

Thanks Troy!
The tank is not currently painted on the bottom or sides, it's got a 3d background. To be honest with it being a bow shape the sides are pretty small anyway.

The filter is a bioflow 3.0 (comes with the tank). I use the gravel cleaner just to get the water out for the water change plus it means i can clear the bottom of the tank of poop and excess food. I then have a eheim pump to pump the replacement water in from a bucket into the tank. (Saves lifting a bucket high up and getting it everywhere...)

I use 'interpet tapsafe' as a dechlorinator but it's just basic tap water. I will do some testing on it and post some base results tomorrow.

I will certainly keep up with the WC as I knew I would be committed to large changes before I got the discus.

[Madaboutdiscus]

Mine hide and go dark when doing a wc as well. No biggie trest them with something they like to eat after wc and theyll learn they arent so bad. Mine have almost gotten to where they swim around you when youre sucking water out.
How often are you changing water? That size should be at least 50% daily.
Id consider switching to prime for your water conditioner. The discus dont seem to do well with any other kind.
I suggest removing that gravel. No matter how much you clean its still gunky under there.
Finally...any pics? We all love seeing others fishies lol.

-Victoria

[troysdiiscus]

Ok, just want to see if there is a difference in ph swing from your tap to aged water. You can check your ph in your tank before you do a WC in your tank if its sat for about 24 hours and your ph from your tap. I paint the bottom of the tank so they dont try to swim through it and or see there reflection, it freaks them out. So when you do a big WC and can slip like a white piece of poster board or something under it would help them.
Ok just wanted to be sure you were using a dechlorinator. Now I will say some test kits will give you a false positive when a dechlorinator is used. So when you use it on your next WC check your ammonia again right before your next WC.
Your nitrates should go down alot when you do your next big WC, ideally want 5 ppm or less...

[OC Discus]

I think it would also be helpful to dose your filter(s) with biospira. It is the best scientifically proven form of the good nitrifying bacteria. It is sold now in fish stores as Tetra Safe Start. Just get a bottle to match the size of your tank and pour it in the filter. It will quickly begin to remove ammonia which is the source of nitrite and nitrate. Be sure it contains "biospira".

[Cullymoto]

Very sorry for your loss.
You've experienced a spike caused by the addition of the new fish. That will sort itself out soon enough.
I think the thing that caused them to die would be ph shock due to ph swing. You will most likely need to age your water. Don't go trying to adjust the ph with chemicals.... You'll modify it to one thing, then it will swing to something else.
Ageing the water means it has finished with ph swing before you add it to your tank - ph is stable. Since you wont be adding chemicals to mess with the ph the water in will match what the fish are used to.
Fill a glass of water right now and test its ph. Drop an air stone into it, wait 12 hours or so (even 24h) check ph again. There will almost always be a difference. That difference, if it happens with fish in the water is very very hard on the fish.
Hope that helps

[bluepill]

Some really interesting stuff I'm definitely in the right place.

I currently only have some small buckets to help with wc. I will invest in a bigger better cannister with a lid so I can age the water.

Victoria there is no gravel and I can already see why bb is the way to go they are so messy! I'll post some pics once I'm happy they're feeling a bit better!

[Madaboutdiscus]

Oh very sorry I thought you said gravel lol.

-Victoria

[OC Discus]

Lowes and Home Depot sell 5 gal buckets with lids. They also sell containers of different sizes up to 55 gallons.


Some really interesting stuff I'm definitely in the right place.

I currently only have some small buckets to help with wc. I will invest in a bigger better cannister with a lid so I can age the water.

Victoria there is no gravel and I can already see why bb is the way to go they are so messy! I'll post some pics once I'm happy they're feeling a bit better!

[OC Discus]

I used to age salt water in an empty 10 gallon tank with a hang on the back filter without media in it. Easy to dip out with one gallon pitcher and pour until 5 gal buckets. You can even add a heater to keep the temp right and use 20 gal if more is needed. When I had a fish room...

[Cullymoto]

Used aquariums are the way to go for storing water to age it. Hit up Craigslist, kijiji whatever you have locally. Then just get a decent submersible pump, and a length of hose to go with it, as well as a heater for the 2nd tank.
Drain your fish aquarium like normal. The use the pump and hose to refil. Very simple.

[bluepill]

Hey guys I have returned!

Well it's day five and they are much happier! On day four they were swimming around happy again, enjoying the bubbles we've added, watching TV from time to time (it's next to the tank) and showing their colours off a lot more.

After some water testing I had a nitrate reading so I did another 50% water change tonight. Could I fight this by adding a potted plant or attaching some moss to my bogwood? (it's kind of tree like so the original plan was to attach some moss to it and make it look like a real tree)

Also here is a pic of the survivors!

http://www.livejam.co.uk/IMAG0359.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

http://www.livejam.co.uk/IMAG0359.jpg

[OC Discus]

Most would say keep doing water changes until the tests are normal, and try to find the source. You could have hidden waste in your filters, floss, gravel, overfeeding, etc. Looks like a background insert. Could detritus be trapped behind it? That will keep your water fouled if its not completely sealed or unless you have strong enough flow to completely move whatever is back there. Do you take it out and clean behind it with water changes?


Hey guys I have returned!

Well it's day five and they are much happier! On day four they were swimming around happy again, enjoying the bubbles we've added, watching TV from time to time (it's next to the tank) and showing their colours off a lot more.

After some water testing I had a nitrate reading so I did another 50% water change tonight. Could I fight this by adding a potted plant or attaching some moss to my bogwood? (it's kind of tree like so the original plan was to attach some moss to it and make it look like a real tree)

Also here is a pic of the survivors!

http://www.livejam.co.uk/IMAG0359.jpg

[bluepill]

It was glued on by the shop that sold it to me. There's a bit of space underneath but it's quite easy to clear all that with the vac

There is a bit of a bacterial bloom going on at the moment I think it's gone a bit cloudy but another 50% wc tonight and I will retest.

[OC Discus]

Good bacteria increase to keep up with waste load. Bloom may not be bad. Should clear overnight.


It was glued on by the shop that sold it to me. There's a bit of space underneath but it's quite easy to clear all that with the vac

There is a bit of a bacterial bloom going on at the moment I think it's gone a bit cloudy but another 50% wc tonight and I will retest.