Frustrated...have I totally messed up this cycle

[LisaT]

STILL trying to get my tank cycled with absolutely no progress. So, I looked at my water de-chlorinator which is actually a water conditioner...The label states' "helps reduce harmful ammonia, chloramine, and chlorine". It's been weeks. I've dumped in Tetra Quick Start twice....still no nitrite at all. Ammonia continues to be around 3. Could the water conditioner have anything to do with this?

As I've previously stated...this was a filter that I used for a ciclid tank. When I took that tank apart I cleaned everything with bleach and water and then let it all air dry thoroughly. I then refilled it, added the water conditioner and then ammonia. The only chlorine in there would have come from any residual bleach from cleaning. There is no chlorine in my tap water as I have a well. I've had lots of other tanks without difficulty, although it always seems to take me longer than average to complete a cycle...this time has been the worse, especially considering I spent all that money on quick start which I've never done before.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[OC Discus]

Did you use Tetra "Safe Start" or "Quick Start"? Safe start will work to lower your ammonia and prevent you ever seeing nitrite. You can safely use Tetra Safe start to immediately cycle your aquarium at the time of adding fish. Keep extra on hand in case you have an ammonia spike due to number of fish added.


STILL trying to get my tank cycled with absolutely no progress. So, I looked at my water de-chlorinator which is actually a water conditioner...The label states' "helps reduce harmful ammonia, chloramine, and chlorine". It's been weeks. I've dumped in Tetra Quick Start twice....still no nitrite at all. Ammonia continues to be around 3. Could the water conditioner have anything to do with this?

As I've previously stated...this was a filter that I used for a ciclid tank. When I took that tank apart I cleaned everything with bleach and water and then let it all air dry thoroughly. I then refilled it, added the water conditioner and then ammonia. The only chlorine in there would have come from any residual bleach from cleaning. There is no chlorine in my tap water as I have a well. I've had lots of other tanks without difficulty, although it always seems to take me longer than average to complete a cycle...this time has been the worse, especially considering I spent all that money on quick start which I've never done before.

Any ideas? Thanks!

[OC Discus]

Ive never done a fishless cycle and can't compare the amount of ammonia you add vs the amount from adding fish. If you are heavily dosing with ammonia, more tss may be required than is on the lable.

But Tetra safe start used in your filters at the time of adding fish and according to instructions puts the needed bacteria in immediately to cycle the tank. You should not see a spike in ammonia or nitrite with this method. Since discus are so much larger than other fish, and often heavily stocked, I would double dose with safe start at the time of adding fish then keep an extra dose on hand in case of ammonia spike.

Of course you have to do the water changes as others here will advise, but having your filter cycled will reduce the problems.

Btw. I would not add the fish until the ammonia and nitrites are down to 0.

[LisaT]

Oh no! I'm pretty sure it was quick start but I didn't realize there were two products! That's why I've always tried to stay away from these products. I'll have to go dig through my recycling. I'll let you know later. Then I have to figure out what to do from there.

[OC Discus]

Your probably right. Quick start is probably just a dechlorinator/conditioner while safe start is used to instantly cycle your tank by adding the beneficial bacteria to your filter.


Oh no! I'm pretty sure it was quick start but I didn't realize there were two products! That's why I've always tried to stay away from these products. I'll have to go dig through my recycling. I'll let you know later. Then I have to figure out what to do from there.

[lipadj46]

I've never had a problem with safestart of but any bacterial starter can be compromised many different ways before you even buy it. Keep at it your tank will cycle eventually.

[LisaT]

Ok, it was safe start. I did a few searches and it seems lots of people use it in fishless cycling. I was under the impression that it was just bacteria. I did not think it would prevent me from seeing the normal cycle...ammonia dropping, nitrite increasing, etc. So, I think I'm going to do nothing for the next few weeks other than keep testing. I kind of feel like dumping the whole thing and restarting, but not sure if that would serve any purpose.

From their website:

"SafeStart accelerates the establishment of the bio-filter in newly set-up freshwater aquariums. The live bacteria start working immediately to provide a safe and healthy environment for your fish without the long wait. Reduces ammonia and nitrite. Reduces fish loss caused from new tank cycle. Use to cycle new aquariums or replenish the good bacteria after maintenance".

Link
http://answers.tetra-fish.com/answers/0596-en_us/product/4224/tetra-safestart-questions-answers/questions.htm

[lipadj46]

Could be you started with ammonia too high and killed the bacteria. I like to keep ammonia at 1ppm, 2 at the highest at the beginning with bacterial starters. I think Tetra recommends 0.5ppm or 1ppm for ammonia to start. Your water conditioner is fine I would think. Do a water change to reduce your ammonia and either do it the old fashion way or get some more bacteria, niteout is cheaper than TSS if you want to try again.

[troysdiiscus]

Agree with Don, think your ammonia was started too high. Should be 1 ppm. I aslo have had success with seachem stability.

[LisaT]

Well, you are probably right about the ammonia being too high initially. Still, I've never heard of keeping it at 1. It seems that when you stock your tank there wouldn't be enough bacteria to handle it. The first filters I cycled (a few years ago), I kept it a 4...this time I'm around 2.

[OC Discus]

It is a catch 22. Ideally you would add your fish gradually- 1/4 at a time- and allow the biological filter to catch up. With discus, you generally want to start a group out together.

You could start from scratch with 0 ammonia and nitrite. Add your fish and a dose of safe start to your filter media. Change water daily. Test after water change. If you get any measurable ammonia, dose the filters with safe start again. After doing this for a few days you should be completely cycled.


Well, you are probably right about the ammonia being too high initially. Still, I've never heard of keeping it at 1. It seems that when you stock your tank there wouldn't be enough bacteria to handle it. The first filters I cycled (a few years ago), I kept it a 4...this time I'm around 2.

[LisaT]

Quite honestly, I think I'm done with products that are supposed to speed up the cycle. I also don't like the idea of adding discus to an uncycled tank and then rely on Safe Start...it may work great, but it makes me nervous. This is the second time I've tried one of these products and the second time I've felt that I wasted my money. I think I will just try to be patient and use the tried and true (but very slow) ammonia method. I would definitely prefer to stock my tank all at once as I do not have a quarantine tank. My only question now, is will I ever get nitrite after adding Safe Start? Should I empty and refill the tank or just leave it alone and wait? Thank you so much for your help!

[Mgardner]

The best product I've used to jump start a cycle is this stuff called Special Blend. It smells rank, but it works well. Just shake and shake some more.

[OC Discus]

Can someone post the process for fishless cycle from A-Z. I see several people frustrated trying it who have added too much ammonia to start with. What is the formula for fishless cycle- 1) chemicals to use, 2) tests to run, 3) time it takes, 4) When to add fish? That question has probably been asked and answered, so a link would be ok. I've never done it, but I see a lot of people struggling with it.



Quite honestly, I think I'm done with products that are supposed to speed up the cycle. I also don't like the idea of adding discus to an uncycled tank and then rely on Safe Start...it may work great, but it makes me nervous. This is the second time I've tried one of these products and the second time I've felt that I wasted my money. I think I will just try to be patient and use the tried and true (but very slow) ammonia method. I would definitely prefer to stock my tank all at once as I do not have a quarantine tank. My only question now, is will I ever get nitrite after adding Safe Start? Should I empty and refill the tank or just leave it alone and wait? Thank you so much for your help!

[LisaT]

If you go to fishforums.net and check out the beginner's link there is a great, detailed explanation of how to fishless cycle. There is also a calculator which tells you how much ammonia to put in.

About Special Blend...if I find this stuff and put it in my tank, should I then expect to see a "normal cycle" in which you see ammonia, then nitrite?

[OC Discus]

Thanks Lisa

[Mgardner]

It's bacteria suspended in the liquid. It's like safe start (I think) but better. It tells you how often to put it in and how much. I wasn't measuring ammonia, nitrates, etc when I was cycling b/c I wasn't keeping discus.
Someone else was having cycling issues at the same time as you. You may want to read through that thread as well.

[Redmelons]

I honestly think to cycle a tank the best method is using fish rainbow fish are tough and tolerate hot water and angels are pretty tough too . I used angel fish and black phantom tetras , for my discus tank . the amonia method is full of holes. The bacteria colony will die very quickly without food ie amonia so you have to have ninja like reflexes on when to add the fish , also i dont trust what other nasty chemicals you introduce even with pure ammonia you never know what was involved in manufacture.

[LisaT]

Hi Redmelons, I respectfully disagree with fishless cycling being full of holes. In fact, I think its even less so than "fish in" because you know exactly how much ammonia to add. The only issue is daily testing once you get started but that only takes 5 minutes. However, it does require patience. And that is where my problem always starts. I begin adding stuff to speed the process because I have the patience of a toddler...this always leads me to trouble. Someone asked me for the link to fishless cycling which lays it out perfectly. It ishttp://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

You really don't have to stress that much about when to add fish. When you are fully cycled you do a water change and then drop the fish in. I'm glad you have a method that works for you, but if you are interested check out the link.

OH!!! I woke up this morning and I finally have nitrite....lots of it!!!

[lipadj46]

OH!!! I woke up this morning and I finally have nitrite....lots of it!!!

That is good, I've found the nitrite phase goes fast. How long in total have you been cycling?

[OC Discus]

Thank you lisa for the link. Looks very detailed. Hope your cycle completes soon. :o


Hi Redmelons, I respectfully disagree with fishless cycling being full of holes. In fact, I think its even less so than "fish in" because you know exactly how much ammonia to add. The only issue is daily testing once you get started but that only takes 5 minutes. However, it does require patience. And that is where my problem always starts. I begin adding stuff to speed the process because I have the patience of a toddler...this always leads me to trouble. Someone asked me for the link to fishless cycling which lays it out perfectly. It ishttp://www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/

You really don't have to stress that much about when to add fish. When you are fully cycled you do a water change and then drop the fish in. I'm glad you have a method that works for you, but if you are interested check out the link.

OH!!! I woke up this morning and I finally have nitrite....lots of it!!!