Water Changes

[LisaT]

As I've mentioned I'm within days of getting my first discus. The thing that intimidates me most is water changes. Going through this website I see elaborate water changing setups with barrels, tubes, wires, etc. My tank is in my small "sun room". Not only do I have absolutely no place to put barrels, but I also think that all stuff takes away from the beauty of the tank (and makes the room look like a mess). I understand the need to let the water stand for a day. At best, I guess I could age water in a few buckets in my bathroom. Still, I don't understand how I'd get the water from the bucket, which I'd have to put on the floor, up into my tank...I'm assuming I'd need some type of pump. Also, is it necessary to agitate the water? If so, how do I do that? I'm also assuming I'll need another heater... UGGG. There has to be an easy way.

In the past I've always changed water in my tanks by connecting a pet store-bought siphon to my faucet....Out with the old, in with the new. I guess this will not work with discus.

[sdrexler078]

I use that sometimes. You may not need to age. Put water in a bucket and put an air stone in there to agitate the water. Then check and see if the pH has changed after 24 hours if not you could be OK with your old way as long as you use a dechlorinator

[Trubble]

Lisa, it all depends on your water. If you have a big pH swing after a 24 hour period, then aging is recommended. Otherwise, you do not need to age your water. You can run it straight from the tap to the tank. Hope this helps. Good luck.

[LisaT]

Wonderful....so at what intervals do I test my water to see if I have pH swings?

[White Worm]

Straight tap is fine. Stick to 50% every other day and don't get wrapped around all those barrels, tubes and wires. A simple hose in and out will be fine. I would also skip all the tests for now until you get the basics down. Too many people get bogged down with chasing numbers. Let's keep it simple to start with and then grow from there. More discus are killed from trying to adjust chemistry than simple water changes from tap. It is good to have a test kit for nitrite, ammonia and nitrates.

[Trubble]

Wonderful....so at what intervals do I test my water to see if I have pH swings?

If you want to see if you have a pH swing, do as sdrexler078 suggested and put some in a bucket. Test it's pH when you put it in the bucket, and test it again 24 hours later. If the results of the 2 tests are different, then you have a swing.

Once you do that, you can then ask the one here more knowledgeable than I if your swing is big enough to warrant aging. Good luck.

[Tazalanche]

First off, congratulations on your decision to care for discus & researching at a site as informative as this one before making your first purchase.

Since you're just starting out, another thing I would recommend when you're testing the PH in your tap water is to also test it for ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. It's really a good idea to test your source water regularly because you never know what the water company is putting in the water to compensate for changes in the season or whatever other variances they discover in their testing "for human consumption".

When we first started out with discus, we couldn't understand why our nitrates were staying so much higher than everyone here recommends. It turns out the issue was high nitrates in our source water, so the more water changes we did "to correct the high nitrates" was making things worse. Now we have our adult discus in planted tanks (swords, crypts, anubis & valisneria in the pool filter sand substrate & pothos on the back of the top of the tank with their roots in the water) to help reduce the nitrates and we do smaller water changes (40% max) more often to keep the TDS low. Our TDS is usually 150-180 on the discus tanks before daily water changes & 200-220 on the non-discus tanks before weekly water changes. Checking weekly since October, our TDS has been 140-175 straight out of the tap, into a cup (163 today).

[OC Discus]

I may have missed this in another thread, but a few questions:

1) What size is your tank and what filtration?
2) How many discus are you getting and what is already in the tank?
3) What size/age fish are you getting?
4) Is your tank cycled? What is your plan for cycling the tank?
5) When do you plan to get your fish? Have they been ordered?

Most on SD would agree that a group of 5-6 minimum is needed to spread out aggression
A minimum 55 gallon tank is needed to house 5-6 adult discus (ten gallons each)
To grow out small fish to their potential, you need to feed 4-6 times per day
Heavy feeding necessitates frequent water changes- most would argue daily 50% or more while some do every 2-3 days
Some successfully use a Python without aging water by adding dechlorinator to the tank before adding heated water

Grown discus- 6-8" and over a year old, can be fed less- once or twice per day
Water changes can be reduced to weekly if Nitrate is not rising above 20 or so

Bottom line. Its a lot of work. A single discus or group might live in a community tank at 70 degrees and treated as other fish, but they will be stunted in growth and long term life expectancy is uncertain. You can do a google search on stunted discus fish to see how they look without the proper care.






As I've mentioned I'm within days of getting my first discus. The thing that intimidates me most is water changes. Going through this website I see elaborate water changing setups with barrels, tubes, wires, etc. My tank is in my small "sun room". Not only do I have absolutely no place to put barrels, but I also think that all stuff takes away from the beauty of the tank (and makes the room look like a mess). I understand the need to let the water stand for a day. At best, I guess I could age water in a few buckets in my bathroom. Still, I don't understand how I'd get the water from the bucket, which I'd have to put on the floor, up into my tank...I'm assuming I'd need some type of pump. Also, is it necessary to agitate the water? If so, how do I do that? I'm also assuming I'll need another heater... UGGG. There has to be an easy way.

In the past I've always changed water in my tanks by connecting a pet store-bought siphon to my faucet....Out with the old, in with the new. I guess this will not work with discus.

[John_Nicholson]

Agree with most of this but I have grown out discus to their potential with only 2 large BH feedings a day.

-john


I may have missed this in another thread, but a few questions:

1) What size is your tank and what filtration?
2) How many discus are you getting and what is already in the tank?
3) What size/age fish are you getting?
4) Is your tank cycled? What is your plan for cycling the tank?
5) When do you plan to get your fish? Have they been ordered?

Most on SD would agree that a group of 5-6 minimum is needed to spread out aggression
A minimum 55 gallon tank is needed to house 5-6 adult discus (ten gallons each)
To grow out small fish to their potential, you need to feed 4-6 times per day
Heavy feeding necessitates frequent water changes- most would argue daily 50% or more while some do every 2-3 days
Some successfully use a Python without aging water by adding dechlorinator to the tank before adding heated water

Grown discus- 6-8" and over a year old, can be fed less- once or twice per day
Water changes can be reduced to weekly if Nitrate is not rising above 20 or so

Bottom line. Its a lot of work. A single discus or group might live in a community tank at 70 degrees and treated as other fish, but they will be stunted in growth and long term life expectancy is uncertain. You can do a google search on stunted discus fish to see how they look without the proper care.

[LisaT]

Thank you all very much for your replies. Apparently I forgot to subscribe to the thread and I didn't realize I had so many responses.

To answer some of the questions...The tank is a 75 gallon. It is completely cycled which I did by "fishless cycling"...I've done this method multiple times, so I'm all good with that. My filtration is a "hang on back" filter. My plan is to get 6, two inch discus. I'm not sure how I came up with 6 but it sounded reasonable to me (hope I'm correct). I've learned lots of lessons over the past few years about overstocking so I'm resisting the urge to get more. I'm going to get them sometime this week.

Taz and Whiteworm, I'm happy to hear that I don't need to go as crazy with water testing as I thought. From reading on this site I was thinking I may have to go back to school for a degree in chemistry! I do have an API test kit that I use for my other tanks (and I used it for cycling this one).. I will definitely do the basics, but I'm not going to go crazy. I definitely want to check for a pH swing and I will be testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for a while when I add my new fish. I may do this a little more than necessary but the price of discus fish will motivate me.

So, to open a new can of worms...what one staple food is best for baby discus? And adult?

[Trubble]

If I had to pick just one for babies, I'd go with beefheart or freeze dried black worms. If I may suggest though, giving a variety makes for less picky, healthier fish. Taz, my other half, has a list of what we feed along with a schedule somewhere on the forums. I'm sure he'll post a link when he gets home. My fish get frozen beefheart and ciclid delight, freeze dried black worms, and a mixture of various flake foods. We find it keeps everyone healthy and looking great, as well as getting good growth and weight. We get most of our food from site sponsors for very reasonable prices.

Hope this helps.

[OC Discus]

If feeding only one food you might consider cobalt flakes. They contain beef heart as well as some vitamins and vegetation. Not saying this is the best food, but it seems like a balanced well rounded food. They would really love to get an assortment of worms and shrimp along with the beefheart and flakes.


Thank you all very much for your replies. Apparently I forgot to subscribe to the thread and I didn't realize I had so many responses.

To answer some of the questions...The tank is a 75 gallon. It is completely cycled which I did by "fishless cycling"...I've done this method multiple times, so I'm all good with that. My filtration is a "hang on back" filter. My plan is to get 6, two inch discus. I'm not sure how I came up with 6 but it sounded reasonable to me (hope I'm correct). I've learned lots of lessons over the past few years about overstocking so I'm resisting the urge to get more. I'm going to get them sometime this week.

Taz and Whiteworm, I'm happy to hear that I don't need to go as crazy with water testing as I thought. From reading on this site I was thinking I may have to go back to school for a degree in chemistry! I do have an API test kit that I use for my other tanks (and I used it for cycling this one).. I will definitely do the basics, but I'm not going to go crazy. I definitely want to check for a pH swing and I will be testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for a while when I add my new fish. I may do this a little more than necessary but the price of discus fish will motivate me.

So, to open a new can of worms...what one staple food is best for baby discus? And adult?

[Discusdude7]

I wouldn't feed JUST FDBW. Been there done that. If I had to feed just one food though it would be a good BH mix.

[Tazalanche]

Thank you all very much for your replies. Apparently I forgot to subscribe to the thread and I didn't realize I had so many responses.

To answer some of the questions...The tank is a 75 gallon. It is completely cycled which I did by "fishless cycling"...I've done this method multiple times, so I'm all good with that. My filtration is a "hang on back" filter. My plan is to get 6, two inch discus. I'm not sure how I came up with 6 but it sounded reasonable to me (hope I'm correct). I've learned lots of lessons over the past few years about overstocking so I'm resisting the urge to get more. I'm going to get them sometime this week.

Taz and Whiteworm, I'm happy to hear that I don't need to go as crazy with water testing as I thought. From reading on this site I was thinking I may have to go back to school for a degree in chemistry! I do have an API test kit that I use for my other tanks (and I used it for cycling this one).. I will definitely do the basics, but I'm not going to go crazy. I definitely want to check for a pH swing and I will be testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for a while when I add my new fish. I may do this a little more than necessary but the price of discus fish will motivate me.

So, to open a new can of worms...what one staple food is best for baby discus? And adult?This thread should help with your feeding questions: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?107105-Post-Your-favorite-food-feeding-routine-for-your-fish-here!

I'd recommend more variety than a single food. If you're limited on availability in your local area, buy flake, pellets & freeze-dried blackworms online from the sponsors here.

Please do some more reading in the beginner's section before committing to six 2" discus in a 75 gallon tank with a HOB filter. They'd be so small they'd get a bit lost in a tank that size & with a HOB, you can't reduce the water level to compensate until they're bigger.

Also, were you planning on a barebottom, gravel or pool filter sand substrate for these little ones?

[LisaT]

Again, thank you all for the feeding info. I'll be doing a bit more research before buying food. My area is very limited (Petco and Pet Smart only) so I'll probably have to order online.

So, 6 is too few babies? This is the first time I've ever wanted to understock! LOL. Although I absolutely HATE the idea of a bare bottom tank, I guess that's what I'm going to do because everyone here seems to think it's best when they are small. At what size can I safely add pool filter sand?

[OC Discus]

Six is probably the minimum size group. With a 75 gallon tank you could aim for 8 grown fish. To obtain 8 that you really like, you could start with 10-12, maybe 2 each of the ones you like, realizing that some may not make it to adulthood for various unforeseen reasons, and some you just may not like. By the time they reach 4" you could sell or otherwise remove extras to get your best 8. Also, unless you have spare tanks to quarantine later additions, you would want to add the whole group at one time. If they grow up together they will get along much better. Post pics when you get them.

Kenny gets a huge new shipment every month with great variety. You can look at his November shipment and see what you might want to order. If it is not all available, order as soon as the December shipment is posted on his forum. He has one of the the largest selections of variety of any sponsor (or non-sponsor), with albinos that will not develop peppering as they grow up, and penang eruptions.

You can reduce water changes by getting all adult fish over 4-5". More costly up front, but less daily water changes and culls of undesireable fish. The price of culls and losses could be applied to the purchase of some larger fish.

Since water changes is an issue for you, this would be a recommended strategy. Young fish, especially pigeon bloods, don't always grow up to look like you hope they will. You can probably get a picture of the actual fish you want if you get 4-5" fish. Hope this helps.

"In the past I've always changed water in my tanks by connecting a pet store-bought siphon to my faucet....Out with the old, in with the new. I guess this will not work with discus."

Toni, a member and NADA vp uses this method, and as far as I know she has some of the largest fish of anyone on the site- some over 9" if I'm not mistaken.

[LisaT]

Ok, I will shoot for 8 (wont be able to afford presents for the kids this Christmas...lol). I like the idea of 10 or 12 but hate to buy fish and then not be able to keep them because the tank isn't big enough. My issue is always, what do I do with them then? Plus, I grow kind of attached.
I read through the entire feeding thread and see lots of varieties. I currently have, in my house, frozen blood worms, flake food and Spectrum New Life Ciclid pellets. Am I able to use these pellets? I'd at least like to use them up. Seems that some people have a problem with them...I've also seen some controversy about beef heart. Is beef heart something I can buy frozen at a pet store?

[Discusdude7]

Ok, I will shoot for 8 (wont be able to afford presents for the kids this Christmas...lol). I like the idea of 10 or 12 but hate to buy fish and then not be able to keep them because the tank isn't big enough. My issue is always, what do I do with them then? Plus, I grow kind of attached.
I read through the entire feeding thread and see lots of varieties. I currently have, in my house, frozen blood worms, flake food and Spectrum New Life Ciclid pellets. Am I able to use these pellets? I'd at least like to use them up. Seems that some people have a problem with them...I've also seen some controversy about beef heart. Is beef heart something I can buy frozen at a pet store?

Yeah you can use the new life spectrum cichlid Pellets..how big are the pellets? The only problem that I know of that people have with them are getting their fish to eat them. You can buy the San Francisco Bay brand frozen at a pet store in cubes or you can make your own beef heart mix. Another option is to buy the beef heart from Discus-Hans. He sells it in lbs so ask how long it will last (I think 9 months ish) and buy as much as you think you will need.

[LisaT]

The pellets are 1mm. I will look in the pet store for frozen beef heart, if not I'll order it. I think I'll skip making my own. Thanks!

[Discusdude7]

The pellets are 1mm. I will look in the pet store for frozen beef heart, if not I'll order it. I think I'll skip making my own. Thanks!

The pellets are fine then. I think petsmart sells the San Francisco Bay beefheart...a sponsor here, California black worms (Dan) also sells Freeze dried beef heart, you can also add that to their diet

[Discusdude7]

Again, thank you all for the feeding info. I'll be doing a bit more research before buying food. My area is very limited (Petco and Pet Smart only) so I'll probably have to order online.

So, 6 is too few babies? This is the first time I've ever wanted to understock! LOL. Although I absolutely HATE the idea of a bare bottom tank, I guess that's what I'm going to do because everyone here seems to think it's best when they are small. At what size can I safely add pool filter sand?

You can paint the bottom of the tank (from the outside of course) white or blue.

[Discusdude7]

Thank you all very much for your replies. Apparently I forgot to subscribe to the thread and I didn't realize I had so many responses.

To answer some of the questions...The tank is a 75 gallon. It is completely cycled which I did by "fishless cycling"...I've done this method multiple times, so I'm all good with that. My filtration is a "hang on back" filter. My plan is to get 6, two inch discus. I'm not sure how I came up with 6 but it sounded reasonable to me (hope I'm correct). I've learned lots of lessons over the past few years about overstocking so I'm resisting the urge to get more. I'm going to get them sometime this week.

Taz and Whiteworm, I'm happy to hear that I don't need to go as crazy with water testing as I thought. From reading on this site I was thinking I may have to go back to school for a degree in chemistry! I do have an API test kit that I use for my other tanks (and I used it for cycling this one).. I will definitely do the basics, but I'm not going to go crazy. I definitely want to check for a pH swing and I will be testing for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for a while when I add my new fish. I may do this a little more than necessary but the price of discus fish will motivate me.

So, to open a new can of worms...what one staple food is best for baby discus? And adult?

See if you can add a sponge filter or two..you could also make a k1 moving bed filter, they take about 15 minutes to make. Josie at Chicago discus made a great video on it and she also sells the k1 media..I also believe they are self cleaning. Are you sure you want to get 2 inch discus? Try to get the biggest size that you can afford..

[OC Discus]

Are you still going to get 2" babies? The first six months of their growth is crucial to how large and well shaped they become. You might add freeze dried brine shrimp to your mix. Most stores have it, its full of protein, and the fish love it. The hard core folks feed six times a day small meals. You could at least do four small feedings:
First one hour after the lights come on- Freeze dried brine shrimp
Second at Noon- frozen blood worms
Third before dinner- flake (something with vitamins and vegetation- spirilina, kelp, etc)
Fourth 2 hours before the lights go off/just before water change- beef heart. Most jumbo discus have been fed beef heart.

Aim for a bulk of high protein with some vitamin and vegetation daily.

Most frozen foods are also available in freeze dried which some say reduces chance of parasites in some frozen food.
Some pellets are hard for them to swallow- their throats are very small- they break down large items by taking them into their mouths and spitting them back out. Then they grab smaller pieces after they soften up and break up.

Good luck. Post pictures when you get them.