Are my babies stunted?

[jamonbutter]

Hi guys, a newbie in discus keeping and am glad that I found SD. Tons of infor for great read up and get a better understanding of this fish. So and I went to get three of them (juv about 2-2.5in) from LSF, however I believe that one of them, 'the orange boy' looks stunted. Hence would like to consult experts here for opinion if the other two were too stunted?
As I can't post any pic yet, I have them uploaded in another website, here's the link http://s899.photobucket.com/user/Jamonbutter/library/?sort=3&page=1

[rdiscus]

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac194/Jamonbutter/image_zps09c59196.jpg

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac194/Jamonbutter/image_zps46263122.jpg

http://i899.photobucket.com/albums/ac194/Jamonbutter/image_zps1b6ca023.jpg

[rdiscus]

Yes they are all stunted, eyes are too big

[jamonbutter]

Thanks Ryan for the pics! Just as much as I guess, my next qns is would it affect new discus if I were to add more?

[Keith Perkins]

No, stunting is absolutely nothing that is contagious or even something that is passed on if stunted fish spawn. It's caused by fish not being taken care of well at some point when they were younger.

[jamonbutter]

I see, and from what I read there's nothing can be done and it just affect the growth only?

[Nick Klimkowski]

I see, and from what I read there's nothing can be done and it just affect the growth only?

yes, unfortionaly nothing can be done to reverse the fish from being stunted.

-Nick

[Keith Perkins]

The fish will still continue to grow, just won't ever be what it could have been.

[jamonbutter]

Really appreciate you guys here for sharing! Think will source for some quality ones to add

[Tazalanche]

I'd recommend starting with the sponsors & breeders on this site.

[Keith Perkins]

I'd recommend starting with the sponsors & breeders on this site.

+1

[Nick Klimkowski]

I'd recommend starting with the sponsors & breeders on this site.

+2

[Michigan Discus]

+1

[NAB]

My wife bought her first discus from the lfs and one was stunted. The other two look ok but are not nearly the pedigree of the ones you can get from the local sponsors here. We have Forrest discus now (bought through CAF) and are very happy with them.

[wolfel]

Just saw this post.... I bought 2 similar ones from LFS and could not be more regretful... at the time when I didn't know what not to buy... fortunately they didn't cost me too much.

will buy more from kenny in his next shipment.

[aggriffin3]

I have a question to throw out at the experts or so called experts on here.
Yes, it is nice to advertise the sponsers and breeders on here if someone is thinking of buying Discus, but the way it comes across a lot of the time, is that's basically the only way to get a quality Discus and that a trusted LFS like I have in town would not have anything worth owning? Also, who cares if a Discus is stunted a little, how many on here are trying to spawn, raise, sell discus of perfect quality? Why can't we just enjoy fish keeping without knit picking a fish apart if they so happen to have larger than desired eyes, or the body shape isnt the perfect shape. My opinion only, and yes by all means, buy high quality Discus from the sponsers if thats what you want and have the money for. But for some newbies, there is nothing wrong with having less than perfect specimens to enjoy.
My opinion of course. I have 4 very nice discus, are they perfect? No, but I enjoy them because they are still very beautiful fish, and I could afford them enough to get into discus keeping.

Art

[OC Discus]

Though they are somewhat stunted, it is not too late to start following a recommended program of feeding, water changes, and tank setup. How old are they? They might still have a window of growth.

[OC Discus]

Art,

I'm not one of the experts here, but I've spent enough time with them to understand them. To answer some of your questions, they've learned from many years experience what is required to grow a juvenile discus to a healthy adult shape and size. It is a program that starts from birth and lasts at least a year. The experts here know that most local fish stores don't provide the kind of care needed to promote maximum health and growth. If they are not cared for properly in the first 3-6 months, the window of opportunity to have a healthy adult size and shape are missed. I know more about discus than anyone at the local fish stores near me, because I have invested many hours of research that they haven't.

Also, in fairness to everyone, the poster set himself up for criticism by asking for it. The title of the post is "are my babies stunted?" Members are just giving honest responses. You shouldn't take personal offense to what is stated on this post.


I have a question to throw out at the experts or so called experts on here.
Yes, it is nice to advertise the sponsers and breeders on here if someone is thinking of buying Discus, but the way it comes across a lot of the time, is that's basically the only way to get a quality Discus and that a trusted LFS like I have in town would not have anything worth owning? Also, who cares if a Discus is stunted a little, how many on here are trying to spawn, raise, sell discus of perfect quality? Why can't we just enjoy fish keeping without knit picking a fish apart if they so happen to have larger than desired eyes, or the body shape isnt the perfect shape. My opinion only, and yes by all means, buy high quality Discus from the sponsers if thats what you want and have the money for. But for some newbies, there is nothing wrong with having less than perfect specimens to enjoy.
My opinion of course. I have 4 very nice discus, are they perfect? No, but I enjoy them because they are still very beautiful fish, and I could afford them enough to get into discus keeping.

Art

[aggriffin3]

I hope it didnt sound like a personal offense, and I do know the poster asked the question. So let me start over.
Its basically the same thing I read on almost every post from a newbie about when and where they should buy their discus, or whats your opinion of the discus they have bought. To me it sounds like we should only buy discus from one of the high price, high quality breeders either on here, or from a high price high quality breeder on line that doesnt advertise on here. I think its fine for people to push or mention the breeders that earn respect on this site as they probably have earned it. But their are lots of good quality (maybe not perfect) discus to be had through non professionals, tropical fish classifieds and yes even the LFS who purchase theirs from quality local breeders like mine does. Why the big deal about whether a discus is absolutley perfect or not unless its a profession and you want to sell them or their fry off for profit? I feel discus fish keeping has come down to only keeping the goods ones, and kulling the not so perfect ones.
And yes, I do know that young discus need the WC's and feedings, that is not in question. We should all do that, no matter where we get our discus, and give them a chance to turn out the best that they can be, and enjoy them even if they arent show quality. Thats what I have done.

Art

P.S. I knew this post would get some attention, just an opinion of mine that I have notice in a short time of being a member.
I am still for the WC's, quality food, and lots of good feeding for the young ones no matter where you buy the fish. I also like to support local industries, which means a good LFS and their breeder programs like I have.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Art, members are free to acquire their discus from where ever they wish. However we get many new members who bought discus from unreliable sources and those members come here with sick or subpar discus. We try to help them with varying levels of success. Also those sick and subpar discus tend to cost as much as buying healthy discus from our sponsors and hobbyists on this site.

Since we are trying to promote the hobby and set people up for success it is our responsibility to recommend sources for healthy, reasonablely priced fish. Also most of us have bought fish from the sponsors here. When you consider the cost and upkeep of these fish I believe most folks want fish they can be proud of. Again it is the members choice.
Pat

[OC Discus]

Art,

Most of the SD members who devote the most time to helping members solve problems are breeders who sell for a profit, or they are their disciples trying to learn to breed/raise high quality fish. It's like going to a pulmonologist and arguing the benefits of smoking cigarettes. He knows what he's talking about, but the smoker doesn't always want to hear or take the advice. A smoker has a right to keep smoking, but the pulmonologist is never going to agree with him that he is right. And the help the pulmonologist can give is very limited as long as the smoker keeps smoking.


Why the big deal about whether a discus is absolutley perfect or not unless its a profession and you want to sell them or their fry off for profit?

[GeauxDiscus]

To me it sounds like we should only buy discus from one of the high price, high quality breeders either on here, or from a high price high quality breeder on line that doesn't advertise on here.

Hi Art-

I've done a lot of shopping for discus, and most of the sponsors on Simply sell much higher quality, much larger discus for significantly less than what you would pay at the LFS for a sub-par fish. I'm sure there are exceptions to this statement, and this is just from my experience. All of the fish I've seen at the LFS's have been stunted, sick, and over-priced. Also, I agree that you can get good quality fish from non-Simply breeders, local breeders, and/or hobbyists. I personally obtained two of my fish from local breeders, and a few more from non-Simply breeders. But you need to be careful and know what you're looking for when you do purchase.

[aggriffin3]

I dont debate that the fish the sponsers sell/breed are probably higher quality. Matter of fact, I hope they are. I am just saying, the first thing that comes out of peoples mouths on this site, is to buy from one of the SD sponsers.
I have looked at the prices, I know that in general, they are higher, and then you add shipping to the mix, much higher than a local breeder where the money stays in your area, and helps supports the the local economy.
My opinion of course. I have what I call nice discus, and I only paid 10.00 a piece for them. (3-3.5") so I know it can be done.

Art

[sholvey]

Hello Art, it's nice to see that you want to stimulate the economy in your area. Some people may not have that access in there area to get a decent local breeder and get what they pay for. I buy all my other fish and supplies at my LFS, but not discus anymore. I have in the past when I first started discus and it backfired. I paid a $40.00 a piece for 6 2.5-3in fish and they were stunted (didn't know back then). I still to this day see stunted discus there, but now have the knowledge to see that they are stunted. I personally don't want a 3 in discus over its lifespan. I wanted to grow them out to their potential, and that's what I thought I was paying for when I bought them locally. Of course that's my opinion for wanting a 6-7 in discus. Some people may not care if there discus ever reach 4 in and I respect that too. No offence, but if I were to pay $10.00 a discus, I really wouldn't care if it "grew out" per se. I felt I wasted a couple hundred dollars on searching for quality discus. I then bought online for the first time and was skeptic about that too. And as it turns out, I got burnt yet again. I bought from Somethingsphishy and their discus were worse than my LFS. I saw the reviews on here after the fact and couldn't agree more. I then gave it one last shot and chose what they recommended on here. I bought from Hans and couldn't be happier, because I got what I paid for. I bought 3'' discus back in November and now they are around 4.5- 5". I am going to try Kenny out this month. I personally appreciate the recommendations and reviews on here, because I didn't waste another $400.00. In do respect your argument and see where you're coming from. But, there are many on here like me who want to get recommendation on here to get a quality fish. And if I could get a quality fish that can grow to 7in like you can for $10.00, then I would be all over that. I consider you lucky.

[White Worm]

Hi Art, most people do as you describe...they start out with interest in discus but don't do their research and drive on down to the local fish store and grab them a couple discus. 90% of the time, the person will not understand why they are dark, thin, hiding in the corner and have frayed fins but they will buy them anyway at a ridiculous price. They get them home in the hopes of enjoying their new found hobby only to see their newly acquired discus get ill and THEN they do some research and find a site like Simply. With all their wisdom, they will argue, question and refuse to follow what works which has been proven by those experts or those so-called experts. After numerous failures and wasted money, the light bulb will click on and they will REALLY want to enjoy this hobby which means starting with top quality discus and armed with information regarding the basics of discus care. By the way, sponsors are no more expensive than a LFS including shipping and they have way more variety. There are way more success stories from those who started off with quality discus from sponsors vs those who picked up a couple stunted discus from the LFS. I know, I have done both.

[Tazalanche]

Art,

Your opinion is similar to mine when I first came here. Please read this thread for my experiences when I first started (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?108181-Buying-discus-from-LFS-versus-using-Simply-Sponsors-Member-Experiences) and you can get a better understanding why so many here push quality over quantity.

[aggriffin3]

I bought mine from a good friend who did happen to buy them from a very well known breeder here in Michigan. Unfortuntly, he only did 2 WC's a week, hence a little stunted in growth. But I love them still, and if I ever decide to try to breed them, at least I have good stock to start with.
My question is, are we all trying to breed them, or can't we just enjoy them as they are? (slightly stunted or not) I can honestly enjoy them as they are.

Art

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m506/aggriffin3/Discus/November122013279_zps710e643d.jpg (http://s1129.photobucket.com/user/aggriffin3/media/Discus/November122013279_zps710e643d.jpg.html)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Art, you can do either or both. Fish which are stunted are still normal fish in the sense if you breed them they will make perfectly normal babies.

[White Worm]

Really appreciate you guys here for sharing! Think will source for some quality ones to add


I'd recommend starting with the sponsors & breeders on this site.


My question is, are we all trying to breed them, or can't we just enjoy them as they are? (slightly stunted or not) I can honestly enjoy them as they are.


You can enjoy your discus but just be aware of questioning sound advice. Sponsors are not the ONLY way to get quality discus but the BEST way. Just like any hobby...you will want to upgrade and improve one day. Another good way to find quality discus is to find someone local to you that is a hobbyist breeder and buy them young.

[aggriffin3]

You can enjoy your discus but just be aware of questioning sound advice. Sponsors are not the ONLY way to get quality discus but the BEST way. Just like any hobby...you will want to upgrade and improve one day. Another good way to find quality discus is to find someone local to you that is a hobbyist breeder and buy them young.

Questioning sound advice? Where and when? Sponsers are the BEST way? They are a good way to purchase products, but to say all sponsers are the BEST way, is just a blanket statement.
Anyways, not trying to start anything, just wanted to point out the first things that come out of peoples mouths or off of their keys.
I also wanted to point out that perfect Discus arent the only ones worth owning unless somebody is judging, breeding, selling etc.

Art

[PP_GBR]

Art

Your fish looks familiar. I thought I saw the pic here. Who's the breeder? May I ask?

[Ryan]

The bottom line is that people here recommend sponsors because they have a proven track record and so we can say with some certainty that you'll be starting with quality stock. Where it goes from there is up to you the second a fish lands in your tank. We cannot verify every fish store and pet chain in the world, and so we cannot say, "Pet Store A has good stock, but Pet Store B doesn't take care of their fish," etc. This is why we are more likely to recommend a sponsor.

Also, a lot of pet stores carry Stendker discus from Hans, so why not cut out the middle man and buy from Hans directly? Then you don't have to worry if the fish has been exposed to illness or mistreatment at an LFS.

I can tell you that in my 15+ years of keeping fish, I have never seen a pet store here sell discus for $10. Ever. Even the sickliest, blackest, most malnourished young discus I have seen here still carry a price tag of $29.99 or more. I was in Petco a few months ago and they had discus covered in ich for $59.99 at 3" in size. If you can find cheap stock in your area that you consider good quality, by all means, go for it. I've purchased the occasional discus or angelfish locally when it looks nice and the price is right. However, I also have an idea what to look for. Some new discus keepers may not.

As for the fish in the original post, yes, they are stunted. If you get them on a good balanced diet and keep their water clean, they may still turn around and become nice fish. I have seen people turn LFS discus around and end up with some great wet pets. But I do think it's important for the OP (and any newcomer) to understand that these fish may not turn out to be very nice, and this is not necessarily the fault of the hobbyist. A lot of hobbyists over the years have tried LFS discus and either ended up with sick/dead fish or fish that didn't grow properly, and the hobbyist gives up and assumes discus are difficult or fussy. The real truth is that they probably started with fish who were already a few steps behind, and sometimes there's no coming back from that.

[myofibroblast]

Also, a lot of pet stores carry Stendker discus from Hans, so why not cut out the middle man and buy from Hans directly? Then you don't have to worry if the fish has been exposed to illness or mistreatment at an LFS.

I watched a video interview with Hans on YouTube where he mentions he prefers that his customers buy from local resellers if feasible. I wonder, then, if cutting out the middle man is really an imposition or inconvenience. Just wondering, because he has some really cute discus on his website! (see around 9:30-10:00min on the following youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQ3o3QJgMrs)

Original poster: As for the stunted baby discus, I still think they look really cute! Unless you're looking for your fish to be in a show to be judged by other discus experts, as long as you like 'em I don't see the problem!

[jamonbutter]

Hi all, I'm really appreciative of all the elaborated discussion generated. I think my main take away would be so long I'm happy with what i have, who cares if they are stunt. It would really be a blind chase for perfection. I will post some photo of them soon on their progress! Cheers guys!

[Tazalanche]

I think my main take away would be so long I'm happy with what i have, who cares if they are stunt.Excellent outlook! Some times the "less than perfect" pets are the ones that we cherish the most.

We have an albino female that is one of the oldest fish in our tank at about 2.5-3 years old, but is only 5". She's well shaped, but just a lot smaller than the others. She is the most personable fish in the tank. We've watched her stop laying eggs to rush up to the front to "say hello".

[sholvey]

Art, why are you so concerned with what people suggest? I also am not trying to start anything, but reading all of these posts, it's getting a little out of hand. The OP asked if the fish was stunted not who they should buy from. Lets move on.

[Skip]

Art, why are you so concerned with what people suggest? I also am not trying to start anything, but reading all of these posts, it's getting a little out of hand. The OP asked if the fish was stunted not who they should buy from. Lets move on.

Yes they are

[DiscusOnly]

Let's go back to the basic.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?33300-Selecting-Discus

The typical LFS will carry what is consider not to buy in the above post. Believe it or not, a lot of people who go to the fist store and see discus that are football shaped, they think that is the norm. Just go over to the wild section and look at some of the wild discus pictures. Forget the colorations or the strains, just look at the shape.

[aggriffin3]

Art

Your fish looks familiar. I thought I saw the pic here. Who's the breeder? May I ask?

I bought them from a friend who bought them from Rick.

Also, I am not claiming that you can buy 10.00 fish at a LFS, just thats what I paid for these fish that I am very happy with. As for buying from a LFS over a sponser, I am also not saying that is whats best. I am saying, look at your resources, look at the fish at the LFS, Local breeders, club members, etc etc etc. They too can have what you are looking for, not just the advertised sponsers of this forum.
Hence, the most important thing is to buy fish that you are happy with at the price you are willing to pay, which arent just sponsers. (But as most have said, your chances are very high that you will be happy with the sponsers fish/products, just remembering that they arent the only ones that sell quality fish in a lot of instances)

Art


Art

[rickmiles]

Also, I am not claiming that you can buy 10.00 fish at a LFS, just thats what I paid for these fish that I am very happy with. As for buying from a LFS over a sponser, I am also not saying that is whats best. I am saying, look at your resources, look at the fish at the LFS, Local breeders, club members, etc etc etc. They too can have what you are looking for, not just the advertised sponsers of this forum.
Okay it's my turn......
I have read this thread and and dozens more like it.
I have been breeding Discus on and off for the past 45 plus years and I'm a Local Discus Breeder who bought a LFS 2 years ago.

I used to breed out of my garage, living room, basement and most other rooms like about 99% of sponsors who breed Discus do.
I have a open door policy ....no appointment needed. I don't have to worry about running around ..cleaning my tanks ..hiding certain Discus closing certain rooms before the appointment time.

Anybody that comes to my LFS will not see any stunted , sick, sickley, unhealthy Discus of any kind.. All my tanks are absolutely clean...Discus water changes at least 50 to 80 % per day, Discus fry eating off there parents fry in bowls eating my egg yoke powder mix or BBS.....fry almost ready for sale....I start off the price nickle size $10.00 ea... a week or so later if there is any left $15.00 ea then $20.00 and so on and so on ...pick up only.

The kind of store I run......a customer who has a 150 Gallon Discus tank and his Discus are always laying eggs. I told him next time bring me the eggs and we will see if I can do something with them ....The female is a Red Scribblet he bought from me a year ago ..male a red cover.

He brought in a piece of tree stump with eggs in a bucket...I was able to put it in one of my 20 gallon Discus breeding tanks...(without the fish :0))

The eggs did hatch and they are now eating BBS in one of my bowls.

Enough now....Anyone is welcome to come by and see for them self.

Rick M

[SortSay2003]

Hi Art,

You've REALLY asked for it!......j/k. LOL.

I respect and understand where you're coming from. When I'd first started out in 1998 with discus, my LFS had healthy stock and they were beautiful (fortunately). Of course I paid close to $40 a piece for a 2-2.5". I could've gotten a much bigger fish with the same health or better, if I'd known or had SD back then to help support my judgement. So ppl here are just trying to help us all and keep the hobby growing.

With that said, let me put it to you this way; If you have a choice between a clunker (with potential issues) and a nice brand new car ALL worried free, what would you choose? Common sense would lead most of us (should be all) to the new car, even if we have to spend a little more.

In the end, go with what you're happy with Art, we are free to make our own choices. Don't let it bother you...take care

[Tankster]

Excellent outlook! Some times the "less than perfect" pets are the ones that we cherish the most.

I just figured out why my wife loves me so much! :jester:

[GeauxDiscus]

LOL