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Aeon
01-08-2014, 11:34 PM
Hello everybody this is my first post on here, even though I've been reading a lot of the threads over the last few months. I'm glad such a great forum exists for keeping discus. I've been keeping fish and amphibians since I was small, exclusively in low tech planted tanks, and I've gotten the hang of maintaining healthy plants and animals.

So I'm going to set up my first discus tank and I have a few questions. I've done a lot of reading and I hopefully got the basics down, but experience is always better so I hope you guys can chime in :)

Right now the tank is already up and running, it's a 50 gallon tank, with about 75% of it planted with various swords, vals, and stem plants that have proven to grow well in my water conditions. They are planted in a laterite and sand substrate. The plants and filter came from established tanks so as soon as the tank was set up I put in my breeding pair of blue rams, along with 5 young rams (2male, 2female, 1 electric blue which I can't quite sex yet.). I also put in about 20 assorted guppy and molly fry. The tank has been running for less than a week, but the rams are active and coloring up well, and my pair has already claimed the rear left corner of the tank and are cleaning out a spawning spot as I type this. I'm going to wait for the plants to establish and root before adding any other fish, and wait about a month after that before adding discus.

Right now the tank is running on two large established sponge filters, and a new HOB filter. Before introducing the discus I plan to install a 15 gallon sump made from one of my old tanks so the total water volume should be nearly 60 gallons. I will also install a heater (not such an issue for my other fish cos the philippines is warm, but I want to be sure for the discus) and slowly increase the heat making sure everything adapts well.

So here are my questions:

1) What would be the stocking level for such a set-up? I intend to remove all fry eventually, but I want to keep some rams in (maybe 2 pairs +my electric blue). I also intend to put in a school or two of tetra, either glowlights, or rummy nose, or a mix of both. There's also the matter of my clean up crew. I usually use corys but I've been toying with the idea of kuhli loaches because I've never had them before. Also might buy an albino BN plec if algae problems ever arise (or just draft some of my otos from another tank, although I love the way the albino BN looks!) So here's a tentative stocking list:

4-6 Discus (will probably buy six smaller ones and choose 4 to keep)
4-6 rams
6 kuhli loaches/corys
15-20 tetras (either 10 of each or 15 of one type)
1 BN pleco
some snails and shrimp
Would that be ok or is it too much?

2) Are 4 adult discus going to be able to live in peace? I'd really like to keep it to that number to keep stocking low, but I keep reading 6 is the magic number. I'm not intending to grow them out past 6" anyways, since I'm aware growth rates are much slower in planted tanks. So while I'd really prefer to go with just 4 (3 even but I know that can be disastrous with cichlids), would 5 or even 6 be more ideal?

3) Are earthworms a suitable grow out food instead of beefheart? I have my own culture going to feed my tanks, and they are very nutritious. They are also quite clean foods since fish tend to swallow them whole. (my culture has worms of all sizes, even small enough for a tetra to eat whole)

4) Is there anything I might've missed?

I'm going to try and grow them out in a planted tank. Please don't react badly, I've done days of reading on this forum and on others about the pros and cons and I've decided to try it out. I don't mean to act as though they are expendable, but a 2-3 inch discus here costs the equivalent of $5-6 and so I can buy about 6 without spending too much. I also really enjoy watching them grow and I wouldn't get that from an adult fish. I understand growing discus require 5 feedings and 50% water changes daily. I know plants make it harder to clean waste but I'm quite used to cleaning planted tanks, in fact I've never kept a bare bottomed one. So while some of you might not agree with my choice to try this difficult endeavor, please respect that it's something I'd really like to try. I'm not going for huge fish, as long as they are healthy, active and colorful, I wouldnt mind them maxing out at 5-6", in fact they'd scale better to my tank size. So if we can focus on the my questions on stocking, feeding, and set-up rather than the planted aspect I'd really appreciate it! Cheers and thanks in advance for any answers! :D

Aeon
01-08-2014, 11:47 PM
Also forgot to mention I will buy the discus from a specialty LFS that specializes in cichlids. I've gotten every fish I've bought in the past 3 years from there, and the discus are well formed, come in all sizes, and although have a communal water system, it's limited to the discus tanks. They also observe proper quarantine etc. Another choice is a local breeder though I've only contacted him through the net and never seen his stock.

myofibroblast
01-09-2014, 04:58 AM
With the plants and the substrate do you think you're looking at 60 gal water volume? I would be curious to know what the experienced hobbyists think here. Good luck with your community planning!

sholvey
01-09-2014, 09:13 AM
Looking at the tank itself, it's only 50 gal. By adding substrate and plants, I would say that you are cutting down that tank volume to at least 45 gallons if not more. IMO that tank will be to small to do both a planted with discus and all the other fish you want to add, because of overcrowding. If you don't plan on growing out the discus past 3-4 inches than it may work. I guess to answer your question you may only be able to keep 3 discus tops in that tank when they are grown. It is your tank and what you want to do with it is up to you. But, I Personally wouldn't do anything smaller than a 75 gal planted with discus. Good luck

John_Nicholson
01-09-2014, 09:53 AM
Not a plant guy but you are not really setup to do what you want to do. If you want discus either get a significantly larger tank or go bare bottom. I also know that you will ignore me so I will wish youluck.

-john

sholvey
01-09-2014, 10:01 AM
I also know that you will ignore me so I will wish youluck.

-john

agreed. Like they say John, you can lead the horse to water.

Second Hand Pat
01-09-2014, 10:23 AM
Now guys, lets give Aeon a chance and welcome to Simply. Regarding your tank there are a few things which have been mentioned by John and others which you should readdress in your research; one is the water requirement per discus, ie one discus per 10 gallons, the recommended size of a group, generally six and the nuances of discus and a planted tank.

While you seem to be well versed on the needs of a planted tank I would suggest you start off with a larger tank with no plants as your first discus tank. Keep the discus well for the first three to six months and then add plants. Many members new to discus find that plants with the substrate needed holds to much junk to keep discus healthy and the water clean. They will end up going bare bottom and discover they do not miss the plants and the discus become the main attraction of the tank. Wishing you the best with your new discus tank whichever path you choose.

Pat

timmy82
01-09-2014, 11:13 AM
Yes Pat is correct and it looks like you already have the picture painted....... Don't get small discus and try and grow them in that. They wont end up in the painted picture. Buy big spend the money or buy another big tank BB and put the water and feed into the young for 12 months and then they be ok. You will blow a lot of $$$ if you persue trying to grow them in a full tank.

Trevor W
01-09-2014, 01:00 PM
Alot of great advice has already been given, but have you maybe thought of doing a more biotope styled tank with a sand bottom some driftwood and a few scattered river stones maybe even a couple Anubias. Even though they are not a biotope style plant it can give you some greenery with being hardy and not having to have a full on planted tank i.e substrate, fertz, lighting, water parameters. Just a suggestion, seems like a good compromise between planted tanks and bare bottom discus only tanks. Either way try and go for adult fish as stated above, you will typically be fighting a losing battle with limited success trying to raise small juvenilles in a planted tank environment due to the conflict between the requirements of the growing juvies vs the requirements and environment of a planted tank.

wolfel
01-09-2014, 02:52 PM
I bought two discus one month ago from LFS, without knowing how hard it is to keep them. My idea was trying to confirm I can keep them well before invested for a group of discus. They were not cheap, $40 each, around 2.5-3 inch. I threw them into my 55 gal planted tank, with tank mates being 5 adult angelfish, 5 tetra, 1 red tail shark and 2 clown loaches. The tank is matured since it has run more than a year. I never thought water quality could be a problem because "plants can purify water"! The fact is, the two discus were always dark, hiding and harassed by my angelfish and redtail shark. Their fins were not erected and they could not eat well because all other fish were quick eaters. Later I was aware of the problem of water quality due to their poor health and reading from the forum, so I began to do 50% WC every other day but the plants were unhappy with it. After every WC I had to rearranged the disturbed plants because of the exhaustive substrate vacuum...

Finally I gave up due to this horrible experience and moved them to a 40 gal grow out BB tank. They lit up shortly after they came to the BB tank, showing the beautiful colors which I have never seen at all in planted tank. Their behavior was normal now, began to eat well. WC was a lot easier. But due to such a small group (only 2), one is constantly bullied and the other eats a lot better. I have just ordered another 5 from kenny to make them a group of proper size.

Although they were all stunted and badly shaped, I believe they deserve proper living environment, as they were lives and cute animals that brought us happiness. I cannot tolerate the idea that they don't need to be properly cared as long as they were not terribly expensive and they satisfied our desire of keeping discus.

If you want to do the same, good luck with you and if you are successful, come back and share your experience.

My two cents.

Aeon
01-09-2014, 04:03 PM
hey guys thank you for your replies, and Pat for the welcome :) .

Now I don't mean to be rude, but please read my original post thoroughly because there are some things I feel may have been overlooked when you gave your advice.

The reason I said I'd have nearly 60 gallons of water volume is because I am going to add a 15 gallon sump. I know my tank is holding less than 50 gallons accounting for substrate and plants, but the sump will increase water volume, though not necessarily the swimming space.

So my proposed stocking is too much, thanks for the heads up! So what would be an appropriate stocking for a 50 gallon planted tank with a 15 gallon sump? for example will the following stocking list be ok?
4 discus
4 rams
10 glowlight tetra
6 kuhli loaches

Also, I'd be completely fine with keeping 3 discus, my question is will 3 discus be able to co-exist peacefully? I've never been able to keep cichlids in numbers less than 4.

About the whole planted/grow-out thing, please bear with me as it's really something I'd like to try. I can get 5 2" discus for about $20 and I'd like to try growing them out in my currently planted tank. I know it will be hard, and if I'm destined for failure then so be it (though I hope I'm not of course) and I really wont lose too much money. Not to say that they are expendable, I'll really do my best to get these guys good and healthy. I really dont have space for another tank. If my baby discus all die, I'll save up for an adult breeding pair. That should be a good fit for my tank wouldn't you think?

@wolfel I think the issue with your tank might have been keeping the discus with extremely aggressive feeders as tank mates. All those fish you named will definitely dominate a discus come feeding time.

John_Nicholson
01-09-2014, 04:40 PM
I think we read your post correct but I don't think you are reading ours. First a 50 gallon tank hold less than 50 gallons. To make a long story short 50 gallons is its outside displacement and not the inside. Then when you take into consideration everything else in the tank the volume continues to decrease. Your tank with plants and gravel may very well hold 40 gallons of water. Then your 15 gallon sump is probably going to hold 10 gallons. Also loaches are normally poor tankmates for discus. If you have any hope for success then start with adult discus. Putting small discus in that tank is just gong to lead to very, very poor results. If you can't do it right then why do it? There are literally hundreds of threads on here from people that have tried to do the this. It just does not work well.

-john

myofibroblast
01-09-2014, 04:43 PM
Hey Aeon, just want to wish you the best of luck! I had four 1.5 to 2" baby discus fish in a 40g planted tank for a while. Seems like you have a realistic expectation of how small/large you want your fish to be. I did gravel vacuuming and 50% wc every day to every other day (even went on vacation for a couple weeks out of the country) and they seemed just fine (though hungry). I didn't feed things like beefheart though, because I didn't want to foul the water. I just fed flakes, pellets, and frozen bloodworm, and only 2-3 times a day, and on weekends I did 5-6x smaller portions. (I also wasn't looking to get grow giant fish, just happy, interactive ones...)

Re: you're stock list. I feel like discus, rams and loaches are all pretty full-bodied, and was wondering what your thoughts are on the bioload for that setup.

Re: # of discus. I think it depends on the personality of the fish. If there is a bully, it doesn't matter whether it's 3 fish or 6 fish. It seems like a bully always knows which one fish to target. But other people here have commented on spreading the aggression out with at least 5 or 6 fish, and I'm sure it comes from many years of experience. I guess you can always upgrade to a bigger tank if your community needs to grow in numbers. hehe.

Trevor W
01-09-2014, 04:59 PM
I also can only wish you the best of luck in your endeavour and put out my own personal middle ground compromise with the suggestion I gave in my previous comment.
However I personally feel that it just simply comes down to the environments. Typically a true planted tanks demands offer a very different environment than what discus have been known to thrive in. It (to me) seems like a tug of war in which one tends to lose out. Whether it is the plants due to trying to provide a more discus friendly environment or the discus due to trying to provide a more planted tank friendly environment.
All in all best of luck in trying to find a middle ground that is beneficial for both of the very different demands. Some may judge success in different degrees, and if you will judge the success of this project as just simply being able to keep the discus alive and relatively disease free than I have no doubt that you will be successful.
Please don't take any of these suggestions or opinions as backlash from straying from the "norm" , people just know what tends to work from years of experience in the hobby and what tends not to work. But one thing shouldn't be ignored and that is that a planted tanks environment and demands are very different from the demands of discus. Once again its all in how you measure success.
I won't touch on the topic of stocking or water volume because I feel it has been well covered by many of the previous posts.

Tankster
01-09-2014, 05:21 PM
First let me say, I'm new here too and a rookie to boot so take what I say with a grain of salt. Your a fish tank guy, right? How about challenging yourself with an Amazonian biotope. They look beautiful, the discus love them and it would be a new challenge for you. You can pick up a 75g on craigslist cheap. I saw one today for $60. After all, who wouldn't want one more tank? :)

Skip
01-09-2014, 05:22 PM
get a bigger thank

Aeon
01-10-2014, 05:49 AM
@John,I did read the given advice. Thanks for pointing out that I only have 50 gallons to work with. However a lot of the advice is along the lines of buy a bigger tank, and go bare bottomed. First of all I don't have the space for another tank. I live in a small condo and this tank for me is THE TANK. I bought it to keep a planted discus tank which has always been my greatest fantasy. I know you all mean well with your advice, and trust me i've done the research as well. I am considering starting with 3"fish now, since there will be less chances of stunting them. Now I'd appreciate some advice on my current plan rather then being suggested to do something else.




About the loaches, why are they unsuitable tank mates? I'm looking at kuhli loaches, these are small worm like fish that only reach 3"and are very slender. Also would 4 3"discus be ok for stocking? How many rams and tetras can I add on top of that?

Aeon
01-11-2014, 05:00 AM
Ok guys I hear you, so we've established I've got about 50-55 gallons of water volume including the sump, and that it's quite difficult to raise discus in a planted tank as small as that, considering it would take daily 50% water changes at least. I really can't get a bigger tank though. This is the largest tank I can fit in my condo and I cant fit another near it's size. This for me is THE TANK for now, and I got it with the hope of keeping a planted discus tank, something that was always one of my greatest goals. So help me make this work, by letting me know what would be the acceptable number of discus in such a tank, with a few tankmates, also what would be a good maintenance routine?

So with what we know about my tank, I'd maybe like to stock it with 4 discus. I am thinking about getting some in the 3-4" range so that they will be developed past some of the more critical growth stages, yet I'll still be able to see them grow to a good 6-7" and color up with proper maintenance.

Would 4 such discus be ok in a tank my size? Also I was hoping to stock these as well:
4 Blue rams (2 mated pairs)
6 kuhli loaches (there had been talk of loaches being too heavy bodied, but kuhli loaches are slender worm like fish that grow to max 3")
10 glowlight tetra
10 rummy nose
OR should I only keep one tetra school?

Let me know your thoughts!

DiscusLoverJeff
01-11-2014, 09:06 AM
Again welcome Aeon.

I think what you are missing is the idea that your main tank (not including the sump) is too small for adult discus, plants and other fish (especially the loaches). It is a good size tank for a smaller community tank but not a discus tank.

The idea of having discus for many after they see them in other peoples tanks or here in the forum looks great, but you will not get the proper growth in a 50 gal tank. Also think about this; you have a substrate (I assume for plants you need at least a 3" base), you have plants. So right there you have cut down on the volume of the tank. Now you are considering growing out 4 discus. You can't do the proper water changes for these fish in a planted tank because you are taking away the necessary nutrients that the plants need by doing daily water changes.

A suggestion would be (as mentioned above), can you replace the 50 gal with a 75 gal tank? If so, do that first and go bare-bottom until the discus you bought are adults. Then if you want, you can convert that over to a planted tank.

Remember Aeon you are fighting with daily water changes and risk killing your plants, or you risk stunted discus because of improper care and less water changes due to having plants.

Figure out what you want more, the discus or the plants.

Skip
01-11-2014, 09:29 AM
U don't even have space for qt all these fish.. u are heading for trouble. .

U have also been advised. . Skip all the other junk.. go barebottom and get 5 discus only

Aeon
01-11-2014, 02:28 PM
No space for a bigger tank. Alright then lets make it clear I am going to keep the tank I have, and planted as it is, and I choose not to go barebottom, so as much as i know you mean well telling me to upsize and go bb, pls advise me on how to stock my tank, not what to do with it. I want to keep discus in my 50 gallon planted. I won't even try and push for raising them in the planted tank anymore.

How many adult discus can be stocked in my tank? I'd assume that's 3-4 with my tank size. Will that leave any room for any sort of tank mates? i'd like a clean up crew of sorts. How about 4 adult discus and 10 ghost shrimp, or what about a breeding pair, and my breeding rams, and 6 corys?

Skip
01-11-2014, 02:32 PM
No space for a bigger tank. Alright then lets make it clear I am going to keep the tank I have, and planted as it is, and I choose not to go barebottom, so as much as i know you mean well telling me to upsize and go bb, pls advise me on how to stock my tank, not what to do with it. I want to keep discus in my 50 gallon planted. I won't even try and push for raising them in the planted tank anymore.

the advice you asked for.. i gave..
my answers do not change..

good luck

sholvey
01-11-2014, 02:39 PM
Ghost shrimp will be a snack for the discus.

a volar
01-11-2014, 07:18 PM
No space for a bigger tank. Alright then lets make it clear I am going to keep the tank I have, and planted as it is, and I choose not to go barebottom, so as much as i know you mean well telling me to upsize and go bb, pls advise me on how to stock my tank, not what to do with it. I want to keep discus in my 50 gallon planted. I won't even try and push for raising them in the planted tank anymore.

How many adult discus can be stocked in my tank? I'd assume that's 3-4 with my tank size. Will that leave any room for any sort of tank mates? i'd like a clean up crew of sorts. How about 4 adult discus and 10 ghost shrimp, or what about a breeding pair, and my breeding rams, and 6 corys?

Why you keep asking if you don't like the anwers you have received?
if you want to hear something different answer them yourself.

you already get a great responses

navydiscus
01-11-2014, 08:14 PM
AEON, I'm sure you are probably getting frustrated with the same answers over and over. I promise you everyone here means well, and wants you to succeed in keeping discus. The fact is that you really shouldn't keep discus in a tank your size with what you have already established. For now I would stick with rams corys and tetras in an awesome looking 50g planted tank. Then either when you have some extra room, or want to change your existing tank do what these guys are telling you and go bare bottom and grow out a beautiful school of 5 or 6 discus the way some of these guys have mastered. For your sake don't make the same mistake I have and many others have here. You will save a lot of money and frustration if you wait and get these beautiful fish when the time is right. Just my 2 cents.

wolfel
01-11-2014, 09:59 PM
I think according to the replies here, the answer to "How many adult discus can be stocked in my tank?" is 0. The majority advised that you shouldn't do that...

Aeon
01-11-2014, 11:00 PM
Well when i started out asking if I can grow out discus in my tank everyone said no. Go with adult discus, go bare bottom or get a bigger tank. I'm saying now that I am willing to start with adult discus.

So what I hear now is that my tank is completely inappropriate for any discus? Yet if I go bare bottom I can keep 5-6? If my tank can support and grow out 5-6 discus as a bb tank, can't it at least support a few discus the way it is? Not even a breeding pair and no tank mates? I remember the stocking level for discus being 10 gallons per fish, are you saying my 45 gallons of water capacity can't even support 2 just because it's planted? And yet the 50 gallon capacity can support 6? I understand I you're saying I can keep 6 bare bottom because I can clean up after them properly but 2 in a planted won't work at all? I've been keeping many planted tanks, even kept 2 rams breeding in a planted 2.5 gallon. I know how to clean a planted tank very thoroughly.

I know I sound stubborn and unchangeable but I'm asking these questions BEFORE I get the discus so I can make the right decision aren't I? Not like I just went ahead and grabbed them. So now you're telling me I can't house any discus, adult or juvenile, in my 50 gallon planted. Is this really the final verdict?

dirtyplants
01-11-2014, 11:04 PM
OK you are going to go with your heart on this and not your head, so what do you want for substrate? What do you want to use for plants? You will need fast growing plants to zap up the nutrients, I suggest floating plants like hygro, these plants look like the tops of trees if placed over a piece of drift wood. I also suggest if you plant place them in sections leaving open areas for discus to swim. Consider using plants in a different way to achieve the look that is both visual for you but also practical for your fish. Cut the extra fish out keep the small pleco. Consider vals, like a forest as a look, they can be dense yet spaced apart to allow discus to swim freely. Vals can hold up to the heat although they don't like it. Go with low light plants. Remember you have a narrow tank which limits the discus's swimming space. You will have to demineralize your substrate before the discus are added. Once your tank is fully cycled you can change water everyday by third and you will not kill your plants. They will just grow more slowly. You can go with 3 adult discus but make sure there are hiding places and safe areas for the discus to hide if necessary. I have a friend who has three adults, a giant pleco, and three cardinals and all seems well in that 55 gal. (This is not optimal but since you are going to do this anyway.)

Aeon
01-11-2014, 11:22 PM
Hey dirty plants, thanks for the advice. In my first post I mentioned that I've already planted the tank, in fact I've actually demineralized the laterite substrate already, planted it with several fast growing species such as hygro, hornwort and cabomba quite heavily in the back. I also have a whole lot of vals bordering the sides, along with taller swords. Smaller sword varieties are in the mid ground and the front is empty swimming space with the substrate sloped down to 1/2" only. I'm not one of those who fill up every inch of the substrate with plants. I have only chosen low-light hardy plants that have been growing well in my water for several years. I am going to give the tank 3 months so that the plants can all grow in properly and be absorbing nutrients quite efficiently. In my 5 gallon where my rams paired up, I changed the water 50% every two days. I found that the rooted plants grew quite well despite this thanks to the rich substrate, while the stem plants grow slowed yet they didn't die at all. Water volume minus plants and substrate + sump is probably at about 50 gallons if not a little less I would say, so I think 3 adults or a breeding pair would do good in such a set up, if your friend could keep 3 with a giant pleco. I probably won't even go for the BN pleco to reduce bio load and just grab 1 SAE or put in my 2 otos.

Does this sound reasonable?

myofibroblast
01-11-2014, 11:40 PM
You might want to ask the experienced members here re: SAE or otos (or the once species that enjoys discus slime). I do like the idea of a breeding pair and some non-aggressive algae eater. Sounds like it'll be a pretty aquarium! Good luck!

sholvey
01-11-2014, 11:52 PM
I told you this in the fourth post and you keep asking the question. It's not probably the best idea, but it seems like this is what you want to hear. I personally would never do it, but it also isn't my tank. So, here it is again and good luck with your set up.


I guess to answer your question you may only be able to keep 3 discus tops in that tank when they are grown.

Aeon
01-11-2014, 11:56 PM
Yeah I've actually read quite a bit about algae eaters. It seems that BN plecos and SAE are the safest, and work as a clean up crew as well as the eat fish food and otos don't :P

Aeon
01-11-2014, 11:57 PM
Hi sholvey, you did say that, sorry I guess I got a little fired up by all the "get a bigger tank" and "go barebottom" comments. I've actually begun to settle on the idea of 1 breeeding pair and a few cleanup crew tank mates. That would be better don't you think? :)

sholvey
01-12-2014, 12:07 AM
Hi sholvey, you did say that, sorry I guess I got a little fired up by all the "get a bigger tank" and "go barebottom" comments. I've actually begun to settle on the idea of 1 breeeding pair and a few cleanup crew tank mates. That would be better don't you think? :)

Worth a shot if you really must. I have always kept larger schooling numbers. And I, along with everybody else, would do BB and or get a bigger tank. I understand that you are limited for space and that is unfortunate. I grow all mine out in a 40 and 55 gal BB. I actually am doing it now and getting ready to fire up a 100 gal soon. FYI it is awfully expensive for a breeding pair and this being your first attempt at discus keeping. Again, best of luck.

dirtyplants
01-12-2014, 12:11 AM
Listen up on this, your amazons will get big unless they are micro or small verity not common to most LFS. I had to remove ten amazons out of my tank to make room for the size of the discus, make sure you have a large feeding area. Your rams are going to be a problem, I have one in my 200 gal. and he has his territory and will chase the discus who come near. So a breeding pair will cause major problems, two pairs and then there will be fights. Do the wc everyday or a very large volume every two days. Land scape your plants so discus have more space. Watch snails they carry gill flukes eggs under their shells, so wc will help keep the snail population down. Clean substrate section by section with each wc. Get adults, don't over feed. Watch behavior carefully a stressed discus can go down pretty quick in a planted tank. If you get young discus, hand feed them do large wc everyday. Look at eyes, skin and fins everyday carefully. Watch for color changes, hiding, or change in eating habits. Do a head count and body check every day. Check you water quality ammonia=0 nitrates=0 and nitrates=0-5. Keep you temp up around 84 do not let it drop, lower for long periods, ich is a pain to deal with and very hard to get rid of in a planted tank. Get a 20 gallon keep it somewhere use it if necessary for a qt tank. You will have to be extra vigilant to prevent one discus from being picked on to the point of sickness. If aggression persists in tank try reshaping the environment so they have to reestablish territory, always feed in different places, so no alfa movements over food. Good Luck!

Aeon
01-12-2014, 12:12 AM
Well prices here are quite low compared to over there. A breeding pair will go for about $140. You did mention 3 adult discus, I'm just worried they might beat each other up quite thoroughly?

dirtyplants
01-12-2014, 12:17 AM
Two can beat each other up just as easily. Mating pair may work. No guarantees. You will have to do a lot of monitoring no matter what.

Aeon
01-12-2014, 12:20 AM
@dirty plants all the plants I'm using I've been growing for years so I know exactly how big they get and where to plant them. I'll probably move my rams back to a different tank. As for the feeding areas I've got that worked out as well. I have a bare spot in the front and it's bordered by wood and rocks so none of the food will make it to the rear unless the discus picks it up, and drops it in the back:P I also have a lot ofDIY siphons i made for cleaning in and around my planted areas. I am very very aware of how clean discus need the water. Will also keep a very close eye on fish conditions, I've gotten quite accustomed to looking out for fish health over the years. I've been planning this for about 2 years, it's just unfotunate that I cant keep a larger tank. Thanks for the help and very useful advice :)

sholvey
01-12-2014, 12:24 AM
Well prices here are quite low compared to over there. A breeding pair will go for about $140. You did mention 3 adult discus, I'm just worried they might beat each other up quite thoroughly?

If you are referring to me, I also said you "MAY only be able to keep." Never said that it WILL work. That's why I wouldn't do it, because of the possible aggression or bullying. You are set in you ways of wanting to get discus. So, get a breeding pair and move on. There is only one way to find out if it works the way you plan. Best regards

dirtyplants
01-12-2014, 12:27 AM
Seriously I hope all goes well you are committed and that will work in your favor.

navydiscus
01-12-2014, 12:48 AM
140 for a breeding pair!!! I'd love to get those prices. Best of luck. Keep us informed of how it goes, and post some pics!

Aeon
01-12-2014, 12:52 AM
Thanks guys I think I have all I need to know for now, I appreciate all the time and advice and I hope I didn't come off as too stubborn!

Aeon
01-20-2014, 09:38 PM
Hi everyone so I just wanted to give you a small update on my situation.

I decided to go with 1-2"discus because I realized seeing them grow is really what I was most excited about. However, I will be growing them out in a 30 gallon barebottom (maybe with a potted plant or two hehe) my friend will lend to me. I plan to raise 8 young discus there till they reach about 4-5" and then I will transfer the best 4 fish into my display tank. The other 4 I will give to my friend as thanks for letting me use his tank.

The 50 gallon planted with the 15 gallon sump will now house 4 adult discus, 10 glolight tetra and a Siamese algae eater.

Sound good?

One concern though, the 30 gallon will have to be placed on the bottom level of my stand., like I said I have no room for another tank. Will this negatively affect the personalities of the discus? Is there any way to make them fel more secure despite them being down there?

SortSay2003
01-21-2014, 01:25 AM
Hi Aeon,

Welcome to SD. Good luck with your discus tank friend:)

But I have to agree with John "I also know that you will ignore me so I will wish youluck."

Aeon
01-21-2014, 01:30 AM
Hi Aeon,

Welcome to SD. Good luck with your discus tank friend:)

But I have to agree with John "I also know that you will ignore me so I will wish youluck."

Hi sortsay! Dont know why you brought that up but I actually have decided to raise them barebottom :)

SortSay2003
01-21-2014, 01:46 AM
Hi Aeon,

Sorry. I'd just thought I'd try to help you have a positive experience with your discus, as you've stated, watching them grow:) If you over crowd them, like I have read; grow out 8 discus to 4-5" in a 30gal tank?, you might not see them grow out. Some or most might be stunted. When I first got dicus back in 1998, I'd made A LOT of mistakes, lack of information, no SD forum...and it was COSTLY.

All I'm saying is you should really listen to some of these discus veterans, they have gone through "tried and true" and are trying to help you with a positive experience. I, myself, come here to learn more and new things everyday. So in no way am I knocking you or anything like that.

With that said, I wish you lots of luck and hope you find your satisfaction level with keeping your discus:)
Who knows, maybe one day you'll be sharing/teaching all of us something new. After all, ALL pros were beginners once:)

Tazalanche
01-21-2014, 01:09 PM
Don't set your goal at 4. It sets you up for issues with bullying. A school of discus should have a minimum of 5 in order to spread out the aggression.

Aeon
01-22-2014, 12:30 AM
Hmm, so what if in the 30 gallon I get 10 1 inchers, grow them out till 2" leave 8, grow them out to 3" leave in 6 till they reach 4" and then pick my favorites to put into the display tank. I'll then play with combinations of the 6 discus till i either find a pair or a group that is even tempered enough to live with each other? It's unfortunate but the 50 gallon is the biggest I got.

Duskfire Discus
02-02-2014, 02:55 PM
hey guys thank you for your replies, and Pat for the welcome :) .

So my proposed stocking is too much, thanks for the heads up! So what would be an appropriate stocking for a 50 gallon planted tank with a 15 gallon sump? for example will the following stocking list be ok?
4 discus
4 rams
10 glowlight tetra
6 kuhli loaches



Welcome aboard :) You kind of jumped in the deep end here with this "planted vs bb" debate. It's a pretty common one and for good reason. The members here typically recommend BB because their is higher sucess rates among amatures and BB tanks. I personally keep my non for sale discus in a 75 gallon planted tank and they've done great. In fact they are much happier in the tank then in my previous grow out bb 45. I have 3 discus and they co-exsist fine, 2 6 inch clown loaches, who bump into the discus all the time, but neither the discus nor the loach seem to care. And about 20 cardinal and ember tetras.

My tank is densely planted, and I check my water params every few days. I haven't had an ammonia spike ever, and I only do a 40% water change once every couple of weeks to rid of backed of nitrates. Frankly I don't think the nitrates make a huge difference to the fish, as my fish act the same at 5 ppms, to 100ish when I change the water.

I would suggest lowering your stocking, no matter what rule you use 1 gallon per 1 inch, 1 discus per 10 gallons, ect, you're over stocked. Go for the loaches or the rams, not both. Discus can be raised in a planted tank well, everyone will attest that they've seen it done at least once. As last years discus competition winner here on the forms raised his in a planted tank... However few people will agree that discus don't need at least a 20% water change every other day.

Also a note on the sump, while it may increase your total water, giving you the capability of a bigger buffer for ammonia/nitrite, it's not going to give your fish more room to have territories, discus like other cichlids like to have space to call their own. Go with 3-4 discus, your breeding rams, and a few tetras or something. It would be a pretty tank and the smaller the load to start with the better. If you end up comfortable with your fish, grab some more.

Please don't be discouraged by the attitude of some of the forum members here. There are a lot of us who stay quiet but do things like you are suggesting with great success. We just don't like to get put in our place for telling people that community tanks are fine, plants and substrate aren't the devil, and you don't have to do a water change every day, if you test your water.

Good luck, and "welcome"
-Taylor

Just to clarify, I've grown out the 3 discus from 2.5 inch to 4.5-5 inch in the 75, and while the growth rate is a bit slower then in my bb's I'd say they're only about a month behind a similar batch in my BB's. I get to enjoy them in my room, they are happy and growing. No complaints here

Aeon
02-04-2014, 09:13 PM
Thanks for the input taylor! It's good to hear from another point of view as well. I've decided to start with 6 1.5" discus in a 30gal bare bottom tank. They'll be there till they reach 3" then I'll reduce the number to 4 or 5. Once they hit 4 inches I'll start seeing which combination of them can coexist in my display tank. The final stocking in the display tank will be:
3-4 discus
15 neon tetra (I know they like cooler temps but they have been ok at 82 for some time as that's my ambient water temp over here)
2 rams

Would it be ok to add a BN pleco? if I took out the rams?

Duskfire Discus
02-04-2014, 10:55 PM
Would it be ok to add a BN pleco? if I took out the rams?

No problem!
For sure NO PLECO's, they eat the slime coating off of the discus at night time.
Catfish are fine though, perhaps a cory cat or something would suit your taste?

musicmarn1
02-05-2014, 03:08 AM
Bn plecos have been ace for me, small and peacefu, I have one in every tank. I did a pair (discus)in a planted 55 and they spawned every couple of weeks without fail but were wbout 6" no more, I loved tbem though but I raise all the rest bb for about a year so far dreaming of a large planted tank with huge discus or wild discus. Must say in my planted 55 only a pair of 6 inchers seemed anywhere close to right. See my profile for pics of it

Aeon
02-05-2014, 03:11 AM
yeah its true some species of pleco do that but it seems Bristlenoses are standard for discus tanks as cleanup/algae eaters. Really awesome looking fish and small and peaceful too! I just scored a 1" baby albino BN with blue eyes :)

Tazalanche
02-05-2014, 08:37 AM
We have BN in all of our discus tanks too, except we went with the longfin versions (3 standard color & 2 albino). In our molly tank we have 3 blue eye lemon bristlenose, which sound like what you're describing. Ultimately, we would like to pair our male longfin albino with our female blue eye lemon & see if we ended up with some longfin blue eye lemons.

Does your albino have a pink pupil, or is it actually a blue eye lemon?

Aeon
02-05-2014, 10:03 PM
blue eyed lemon I guess. the eyes are blue with black pupils

Tazalanche
02-06-2014, 06:42 AM
Ahh... Cool. Those seem to get a lot of attention from guests and are good conversation starters.

wolfel
02-06-2014, 02:17 PM
My 1 inch BN pleco died a few days after being in my discus tank with other 7 pieces of 3-4" discus. I guess the pleco was just too stressful with those large fish... Next time should I try larger one?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aeon
02-07-2014, 02:05 AM
Wolfel, was there something for the pleco to eat? I have driftwood and made sure that I was getting algae growth before I got mine. A discus update btw, I'm going to get 6 babies next month from a local breeder and start them off in my 30 gallon. Once they reach 3" i'll move 2 to the planted tank as guinea pigs, and grow out the rest to 5" before I move them to the display. The two others i'll sell or trade. If I get a pair, I'll reduce my discus stocking to just them