Hello everyone Please make sure that I am on track

[grabberorangestang]

Hello Everyone! First off let me give you my background. I have been keeping fish tanks for 10 years now. I have had freshwater fish before, including african cichlids, but 8 of those years have been saltwater including reefs. This will be the first time I haven't had a saltwater tank since I started. BUT I have become very fond of discus. I think that they are a great looking fish and are quite stunning. I currently have a 75 gallon saltwater aquarium. I am breaking it down tomorrow and converting it to freshwater this weekend. Here is where I broke a couple rules, I think. Earlier this week I set up a brand new brute trashcan with tap water. I added prime and stability, a heater, a sponge filter, and denitrate in a reactor. I also took some matrix, 5 gallons of water, and the filter pads out of another freshwater tank that has been established for years. I have added some flake food, just a little, daily along with stability and I have yet to see Ammonia Nitrite or Nitrate. I am hoping that this means that the biological filtration is doing its job.

My plan is to get the tank running as freshwater on Sunday. I would like to let it run until Thursday and after making sure that a cycle didn't start add some fish. What do you guys think? I have read a lot on this forum and online and I think I have everything. Feel free to ask questions or for more info.

[astrochick00]

Do you have something in there that is producing ammonia? Be careful seeding a biofilter from an established tank, particularly if it's not a discus tank; sometimes bad bugs hitch a ride in there as well as the good/nitrifying bugs (I am an expert in this field as I have nearly killed a tank of discus by doing this very thing).

Great idea overall, though…to get your biofilter growing even before you have your tank running freshwater. Let the experts on here help you with the timeline because adding discus after just a few days might be a little ambitious. Good luck!

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Welcome to SD.

You should wait at least another couple weeks for the tank to cycle. You do not want to jump the gun and add discus and find out later you have not cycled the tank.

The key here is patients grasshopper. If you look in the beginners section of the forum, you will find plenty of threads on cycling tanks. Use the search feature as well.

[Cichlidcraze]

Hi and welcome to SD.

If this were my tank, i would remove the denitrate and dose with pure ammonia to 5 ppm. Then test after 24 hrs. If the filters are cycled, the test results should be: ammonia 0 , Nitrite 0 and there should then be a nitrate reading. And then i would do as Jeff said and wait a couple of weeks just to be 100% sure, before adding any Discus.

Cass

[grabberorangestang]

Hi and welcome to SD.

If this were my tank, i would remove the denitrate and dose with pure ammonia to 5 ppm. Then test after 24 hrs. If the filters are cycled, the test results should be: ammonia 0 , Nitrite 0 and there should then be a nitrate reading. And then i would do as Jeff said and wait a couple of weeks just to be 100% sure, before adding any Discus.

Cass

Sorry for the late response everyone. I have been busy, luckily part of the busyness has been with the tank. Why would I remove the denitrate? That is my biological filter. I have been adding a few pellets here and there as well as some stability and I still have yet to see a spike. I transferred the water with the bacteria and such into the tank today. I guess we will see where it goes from there.

[Cichlidcraze]

The reason i suggested taking out the denitrate, is that a nitrate reading would be positive proof that the filters are cycled. Denitrate might skew the nitrate test. Once sure, it can then be put back. I hope that is clearer.

Cass

[John_Nicholson]

A couple of questions.....Bare bottom or planted? What is your water change plan? If you are BB and change the proper amount of water I would not worry so much about the cycle. If you are trying to go planted with minimal water changes them wait for the cycle to finish. I will wish you luck and will try to help when you start posting in the disease section.....LOL.

-john

[grabberorangestang]

A couple of questions.....Bare bottom or planted? What is your water change plan? If you are BB and change the proper amount of water I would not worry so much about the cycle. If you are trying to go planted with minimal water changes them wait for the cycle to finish. I will wish you luck and will try to help when you start posting in the disease section.....LOL.

-john

I'm going to start out with a very light substrate and a few pieces of wood(stuff that can easily be moved when I clean) as they near. 5 inches I will lightly plant the tank and back down on water changes. I am getting them from Hans at 3inches and hopefully you won't see me in the disease section. There are basically 4 days a week that I can do water changes and I will do at least. 50%. On the other days I will try to do some form of a water change, but I'm not sure due to my schedule. They will be feed Hans food recipe, cobalt discus flakes on an auto feeder 3x daily, ALS black worm cubes, and frozen bloodworms and Mysis shrimp.

[Cabe]

I agree totally with John. If you go bb and change about 80% of the water every day, the cycling is way less important as you are constantly changing the water.




A couple of questions.....Bare bottom or planted? What is your water change plan? If you are BB and change the proper amount of water I would not worry so much about the cycle. If you are trying to go planted with minimal water changes them wait for the cycle to finish. I will wish you luck and will try to help when you start posting in the disease section.....LOL.

-john

[John_Nicholson]

Sounds like you have a plan. Coming from Hans I know the fish will be healthy. I am sure that a BB tank is probably a odd thought for you but it sure makes it easier for you and because of that normally leads to a better outcome in the end.

Good luck.

-john


I'm going to start out with a very light substrate and a few pieces of wood(stuff that can easily be moved when I clean) as they near. 5 inches I will lightly plant the tank and back down on water changes. I am getting them from Hans at 3inches and hopefully you won't see me in the disease section. There are basically 4 days a week that I can do water changes and I will do at least. 50%. On the other days I will try to do some form of a water change, but I'm not sure due to my schedule. They will be feed Hans food recipe, cobalt discus flakes on an auto feeder 3x daily, ALS black worm cubes, and frozen bloodworms and Mysis shrimp.

[grabberorangestang]

John-Yes I know of the bare bottom and a lot of folks push that, I agree it does make for a cleaner tank. But as long as I keep up with the water changes and keeping it lightly planted I could keep it pretty clean. I have 60lbs of sand coming for a 75 gallon so I dont think it would be too thick of a sandbed. Thanks for the input

Cabe- I suppose if I was to encounter a mini cycle I could change out even more of the water than originally planned to keep the Ammonia and Nitrite at bay. I also have prime to detoxify it.

[DC Discus]

Quick thought; if your using amquel or prime to treat tap water (sorry if I missed what type of water you were using) they can bind up ammonia and nitrite so you would be reading 0 while trying to cycle. While removing the Denitrate material as Cichlidcraze suggested will help you determine the state of your biological filter.

Cheers,
DC

[grabberorangestang]

Quick thought; if your using amquel or prime to treat tap water (sorry if I missed what type of water you were using) they can bind up ammonia and nitrite so you would be reading 0 while trying to cycle. While removing the Denitrate material as Cichlidcraze suggested will help you determine the state of your biological filter.

Cheers,
DC

I did not think about that with the prime, but I only used it on the inital fill which was well over a week ago. I still don't understand removing the denitrate. Is it so that I can see a spike in Nitrate? Denitrate is simply a highly porous rock that is my biological filter. It is similar to bio balls or ceramic discs. Also although Seachem claims denitrate will lower nitrates if ran under 50gph I do not believe that because no bacteria will convert nitrate into something else. Thanks for the ideas though.

[Cichlidcraze]

I have added some flake food, just a little, daily along with stability and I have yet to see Ammonia Nitrite or Nitrate. I am hoping that this means that the biological filtration is doing its job.

My plan is to get the tank running as freshwater on Sunday. I would like to let it run until Thursday and after making sure that a cycle didn't start add some fish.

From reading your posts i get the impression that having a cycled tank is important to you. With that being said here is a more in depth response to your original post. Adding just a little flake food daily, then testing and getting no result tells you nothing about your bio filtration. How much ammonia did you really add? Was it enough to get a measurable result? That is why i suggested using pure ammonia, and dose to 5 ppm. If this can be converted to Nitrate in 24 hrs, this will tell you that your bio filtration is working.

Denitrate works on the same principal as the inner parts of live rock in sw tanks. It requires a low oxygen environment to cultivate anaerobic bacteria, which can convert nitrate into nitrogen gas. Now, i am no expert, and have no personal experience with this product, but if i was trying to test for nitrate, i would remove denitrate just in case it skews my nitrate test. I would rather be safe than sorry. A nitrate spike is what i would be looking for.

Cass

[grabberorangestang]

From reading your posts i get the impression that having a cycled tank is important to you. With that being said here is a more in depth response to your original post. Adding just a little flake food daily, then testing and getting no result tells you nothing about your bio filtration. How much ammonia did you really add? Was it enough to get a measurable result? That is why i suggested using pure ammonia, and dose to 5 ppm. If this can be converted to Nitrate in 24 hrs, this will tell you that your bio filtration is working.

Denitrate works on the same principal as the inner parts of live rock in sw tanks. It requires a low oxygen environment to cultivate anaerobic bacteria, which can convert nitrate into nitrogen gas. Now, i am no expert, and have no personal experience with this product, but if i was trying to test for nitrate, i would remove denitrate just in case it skews my nitrate test. I would rather be safe than sorry. A nitrate spike is what i would be looking for.

Cass

Okay thanks for the clarification. I understand now that the denitraye should be removed to get a reading on nitrate. I also understand about the fish food and I took your advice but couldn't find any pure ammonia without suds when you shake them.

[grabberorangestang]

The discus came in today and they look great. The snakeskin blue looked like he had something on him, but I don't think it is anything to worry about. I already did one water change on the tank. I fed them a cube of FDBW (THANKS AL) and they slowly picked on it for a few hours. The only thing that concerns me is that they have stayed in the back right and front corner. They are brand new to the tank, but after reading online it could mean too much light (its a 2 bulb t5) or too much flow (I turned it down for now its about 750gph for a 75). Here are some pics
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1968_zpsc17bbf19.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1968_zpsc17bbf19.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1969_zpsc52f642c.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1969_zpsc52f642c.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1970_zps82bed84e.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1970_zps82bed84e.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1973_zps526da602.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1973_zps526da602.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1974_zps1a8205a2.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1974_zps1a8205a2.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1975_zps6074a161.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1975_zps6074a161.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1976_zpsfa2a0597.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1976_zpsfa2a0597.jpg.html)

[grabberorangestang]

Discus came in today and they look good. They have been hanging out in the corner all day, but I assume its nothing to be too worried about. They ate some FDBW earlier (THANKS AL). Here are a few pics.
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1976_zpsfa2a0597.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1976_zpsfa2a0597.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1975_zps6074a161.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1975_zps6074a161.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1974_zps1a8205a2.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1974_zps1a8205a2.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1973_zps526da602.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1973_zps526da602.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1971_zps0142fa19.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1971_zps0142fa19.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1969_zpsc52f642c.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1969_zpsc52f642c.jpg.html)

[grabberorangestang]

Well the discus came in yesterday and they are doing pretty good. I fed them a FDBW cube yesterday and they ate almost all of it. They hid in the same corner all of yesterday. Today I wasn't home much, but I am told that they were swimming out and about. Sure enough when I got home at 730ish they were back in a corner again, but they did eat some frozen hans food. Maybe they are used to a certain light cycle and I run mine 11-11? Maybe they are still adjusting?

[grabberorangestang]

I was worried that the flow in the tank was too much, I would say there is probably 750gph at the tank. The pump does 900 but after head loss it probably is around 750. That is probably on the high end for discus, so I turned it down to about 60% or so. I figure once they get used to the tank and swim laps I can possibly turn it back up? I also added a bubble wand wall in the back of the aquarium for ample aeration. I did a water change last night, but didn't get around to doing one today. Tomorrow morning I will do a 50%.

[grabberorangestang]

I also tested the water today. There was no ammonia, nitrite, or nitrate. So I am crossing my fingers whether or not I will get a mini cycle. If not I will truly believe in the Nutrafin Cycle and Stability.

[grabberorangestang]

I had to get to ten posts in order to be able to post pictures, but here are some photos from yesterday. Please tell me what you think!

[grabberorangestang]

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1969_zpsc52f642c.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1969_zpsc52f642c.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1976_zpsfa2a0597.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1976_zpsfa2a0597.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1975_zps6074a161.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1975_zps6074a161.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1973_zps526da602.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1973_zps526da602.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1974_zps1a8205a2.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1974_zps1a8205a2.jpg.html)
http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q192/triga22/IMG_1971_zps0142fa19.jpg (http://s136.photobucket.com/user/triga22/media/IMG_1971_zps0142fa19.jpg.html)

[grabberorangestang]

I almost forgot, the blue snake skin is the largest and he is very dominant. He pecks at the others from time to time. Also THANKS AL FOR THE FDBW THEY ARE GREAT!!

[Melissa]

Beautiful colors you chose :) you've definitely started off on the right track by getting your discus from a SD sponsor. Looks like Hans took care of you, and The fishes do love Al's FDBW! It looks like they are definitely hiding from the light. They may get used to it with time :) keep us posted on their progress:)

[grabberorangestang]

Thank you Melissa. They are coming out more now that they have settled.

[astrochick00]

They are beautiful! Congratulations!!!

[Cichlidcraze]

They are all beautiful! Especially love the one in front in the last pic. Is it a Silver Pigeon? Best of luck with the new fish.

Cass

[grabberorangestang]

Thanks yall! The one in the last picture is actually a blue snake skin. Sorry for all the pictures, but I see that when it wouldnt let me post originally after I got to ten posts it threw them in there lol Oh well.