about nitrate levels

[Miamiheat]

Hello,
Beginner here really enjoying reading loads of threads on this forum.
I have a 240 litre tank (63 US GAL) that has sand on half the bottom and is BB in the other half. I have live plants as well.
Filtration is a Fluval FX5 and EHEIM 2217 loaded with biomedia. I have 9 hungry fellows in there and would say 5-6 are not adults yet and the 3-4 remaining ones are adult. Smallest one is about 4 inch (lenght) and biggest one is around 6.5 inches: all of the others are in between.
Api test kit reveals 0 amonia, 0 nitrite and always 40ppm to 80ppm and sometimes more nitrates. Temp was 31C for a few days but dropped it at 28C.
I change water everyday (20-30 percent) and about once a week 50%.
I am aware that its a bit crowded but given the overkill on filtration i thought this would compensate somehow.
I do feed them once or twice with pellets in the AM before work and a few times with pellets in the evening, with usually one or two cubes of beef heart.
I thought jeez I am overfeeding but at the same time there are no leftovers within seconds. And when I do a WC i syphon the sh-t from the bottom as well so that happens daily.
Any ideas?

[TheBigB]

I would feed less and up your daily water change schedule to 50% and do a 75% once a week.

[Cichlidcraze]

Hi Miamiheat.

Your test results show that your filtration is doing exactly what it should. Its handling the bio load of an overstocked tank. Have you tested your tap water for nitrates? My tap water sometimes has a nitrate reading of 5. Having said that, i feel that you should increase your water change volume per water change to a minimum of 50 percent. Anything less than 50 percent is just not going to have a dramatic effect on the nitrate level IME. Hth

Cass

[Second Hand Pat]

Generally filters do not remove nitrates and testing your source water is a great idea. If nitrates measure zero to low in your source water I would seriously consider upping the percentage of your daily WCs.

[Miamiheat]

Hi Miamiheat.

Your test results show that your filtration is doing exactly what it should. Its handling the bio load of an overstocked tank. Have you tested your tap water for nitrates? My tap water sometimes has a nitrate reading of 5. Having said that, i feel that you should increase your water change volume per water change to a minimum of 50 percent. Anything less than 50 percent is just not going to have a dramatic effect on the nitrate level IME. Hth

Cass

Thank you for the answer. I have tested my tap water a couple of times and no nitrates. I have another tank with 68gal bare bottom, 2 filters and a sponge, a breeding pair, 6 juvies and 3 babies (1.5 inch) => 5 to 10ppm
will try to get the 50% WC going but its a pain as i am trying to age my water and currently i use a 96L aquarium to stock water for 24h

[Cichlidcraze]

I too use an aquarium (130l) to age my water. I am getting a food grade drum (200l), in which to age my water. That might be an idea for you to try. Otherwise i think you are going to be constantly losing ground to a rising nitrate level.

Cass

[LFCYNWA]

add some zeolite to your filter media, that will keep nitrates down. Seachem Matrix that will do the job!

[Ryan]

Biological filtration doesn't break down nitrates. There are two types of beneficial bacteria living in your filters. The first converts ammonia excreted by the fish into nitrite, and the second converts that nitrite into nitrate. The only ways to remove nitrates are to absorb them with special filter pads/resins or plants, or do water changes. The good news, as Cass points out, is that it means your filters are functioning properly.

Remember, the more you feed your fish, the more waste they will produce. The more waste they produce, the more nitrate you'll have as an end product of the nitrogen cycle. The more fish you have, and the higher your fish stocking density, the faster it builds up. What you're seeing is nitrate building up too fast for your current percentage of water changes to keep up.

The quickest, easiest solution is larger water changes. You can also increase the tank size so that the volume of water is greater and therefore the nitrates don't build up quite as fast, assuming you keep the same number of fish and the same number of feedings. The water changes will still be important.

Remember, growing discus also use the available minerals/trace elements in the water for proper fin/bone/body development. Water changes not only reduce bad things like nitrate and other dissolved organic waste, but also replenish the minerals that your discus have absorbed. This is why water changes are so important to growing fish, and a fact that people who dismiss frequent water changes seem to neglect.

[OC Discus]

If you can use a pump for your water, changing 50 gallons is just as easy as 5. A couple of 75% water changes should get the nitrate down, then daily 50%+ should keep it down. With the right pump and right size hose you can move 50 gallons of new water in about 10 minutes. If you are removing water with a pump, or siphoning to the outside or a drain, removing 50 gallons is about as easy as removing 5.

What system are you using for water changes?

[Ryan]

If you can use a pump for your water, changing 50 gallons is just as easy as 5. A couple of 75% water changes should get the nitrate down, then daily 50%+ should keep it down. With the right pump and right size hose you can move 50 gallons of new water in about 10 minutes. If you are removing water with a pump, or siphoning to the outside or a drain, removing 50 gallons is about as easy as removing 5.

What system are you using for water changes?

+1. This is how I do all my water changes. I siphon the bottom real quick (in a 55 gallon it takes maybe a minute), then drop a water pump into the tank and run a hose to the tub. The tank drains down until the water level is about 4", then I drop the pump into my storage barrel and put the hose back in the tank. Add some dechlorinator and refill in 10 - 15 minutes depending on the gallons per hour of your pump.

[dirtyplants]

The quickest, easiest solution is larger water changes. You can also increase the tank size so that the volume of water is greater and therefore the nitrates don't build up quite as fast, assuming you keep the same number of fish and the same number of feedings. The water changes will still be important.

Remember, growing discus also use the available minerals/trace elements in the water for proper fin/bone/body development. Water changes not only reduce bad things like nitrate and other dissolved organic waste, but also replenish the minerals that your discus have absorbed. This is why water changes are so important to growing fish, and a fact that people who dismiss frequent water changes seem to neglect.
Well said!
water changes will also keep the pathogens down which will become a problem as the nitrates climb in an over crowded tank.

[myofibroblast]

No way around it. The more you poop, the more you need to flush the toilet.

[dirtyplants]

The more you poop, the more you need to flush the toilet.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJRho_UHXsI

[OC Discus]

My lfs has a sign in the bathroom. "If you go #2 be sure to flush the toilet. If you do a large #2, flush multiple times"


No way around it. The more you poop, the more you need to flush the toilet.

[Cichlidcraze]

will try to get the 50% WC going but its a pain as i am trying to age my water and currently i use a 96L aquarium to stock water for 24h

I just wanted to offer another solution. It may sound obvious, but it wasnt to me ( until someone here on SD advised me), so i feel i should mention it just in case. I have a 247 l tank, but can only age 130 litres of water at a time. So what i am currently doing, while waiting to get a larger water ageing drum, to facilitate larger water changes, is to drain my tank of as much water as i want - refill with 130 litres of aged water - and top up with water straight from the tap.

Cass

[Miamiheat]

If you can use a pump for your water, changing 50 gallons is just as easy as 5. A couple of 75% water changes should get the nitrate down, then daily 50%+ should keep it down. With the right pump and right size hose you can move 50 gallons of new water in about 10 minutes. If you are removing water with a pump, or siphoning to the outside or a drain, removing 50 gallons is about as easy as removing 5.

What system are you using for water changes?

Hi,
I started with 20L water bottles (the big blue ones used on office water dispensers). Have 2 Discus tanks ==> 240L and 260L, so you can imagine the amounts of trips with those bottles and i had so many mishaps such as overflow on one bottle while its being filled up because i got distracted emptying the other one etc.. I have ended up so many times moping my floor its not even funny. All this is new to me got into these fish because they were pretty LOL, realised AFTER the amount of care they require so I am adjusting..
i now have pumps and started using 150L drums this weekend (one for clean water and one for waste water). Ideally both have to age water and i need to used a 5gal bucket with pump to send waste to bathtub. so i have already done 50% water changes on both tanks yesterday and today. will check my nitrates tomorrow.
I do like to feed them a lot and would like to go on doing it as most are still not at full size. Since the 240L was way overstocked I have moved the 3 smaller ones to the 260L tank where i have juvies and a breeding pair. The logic behind this is that tank is at 5-10ppm, and the breeding pair will get their own tank , so technically i should end up with roughly the same biomass.
i will monitor closely ammonia/nitrites/nitrates in 260L since i added 3 fish and the 240L is left with 6 fish so i should find it easier to catch up with the nitrates.
I do need to find a permanent solution as i usually travel and it is really lucky i have no had to move in the last 3 months, but I am due to fly to Miami end of FEB so if i could automate the procedure (at least so that my friend does get a chance to screw things up) it would be great. I used to be good at DIY when i was a teenager but it seems office life has taken its toll and i am quite clumsy ;)

[Miamiheat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJRho_UHXsI

hilarious!

[Miamiheat]

I just wanted to offer another solution. It may sound obvious, but it wasnt to me ( until someone here on SD advised me), so i feel i should mention it just in case. I have a 247 l tank, but can only age 130 litres of water at a time. So what i am currently doing, while waiting to get a larger water ageing drum, to facilitate larger water changes, is to drain my tank of as much water as i want - refill with 130 litres of aged water - and top up with water straight from the tap.

Cass

I started to use the 150l drum, will top off if needed. wasn't using it yet as it used to contain some type of varnish, its been thoroughly cleaned even with high pressure steam but i wanted to use it a few days for waste water before using it to age water.