Wild Trombeta x Wild Cuipeua

[Second Hand Pat]

I have been watching this fish for a couple of months. It is a Cuipeua and at first I thought female. Over the last year it has gotten pretty big and pretty. It is very red and mostly striated. Due to it's size I was thinking maybe male instead. Over the last couple of days I have noticed this fish staring at wood and also noted it has been chasing the other fish from it's spot. I know I have one male in the Cuipeua group which shows no interest.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4261_zpsbbef7572.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4261_zpsbbef7572.jpg.html)

So I added the Trombeta who is a male this afternoon.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4259_zps71247bb5.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4259_zps71247bb5.jpg.html)

and we already have some shimmying with the Cuipeua.

[Second Hand Pat]

If the Cuipeua is female....she is ready to rock and roll. Now for the Trombeta to get in the act. He is in the lower left of the video.


http://youtu.be/2OKhZLxTwGA

[dirtyplants]

that is some very nice looking fish in that tank. I really hope this works!

[Bill63SG]

Good luck Pat,your going up the first hill of the discus roller-coaster,and the anticipation is building.

[rdiscus]

Nice halo, should be the female ... very nice big girl. Good luck Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Good luck Pat,your going up the first hill of the discus roller-coaster,and the anticipation is building.

Thanks Bill, I am just happy the wilds seem to be breeding fairly consistently. The next couple of days should tell us if the male will commit. I suspect he will. He was doing a little chasing with the Cuipeua last night.

[Second Hand Pat]

Nice halo, should be the female ... very nice big girl. Good luck Pat

Thanks Ryan, besides the halo the Cuipeua is redder and has a slight high finned look which tends to indicate female.

Some other observations from last night while the Cuipeua was shimmying the other two females (one confirmed) were swarming above her like bees. It almost seemed like they were watching/interested.

Also the one Cuipeua male who seems are uninterested in breeding was hanging around the Cuipeua with a darker then normal tail. I think a little competition in a group of wilds help to promote spawning behaviors.

[dirtyplants]

That is awesome Pat, where did you get your fish all are just grand looking. That trombete is sure nice.

[Second Hand Pat]

These two guys came from Mark Coree.

[Second Hand Pat]

So it is the third day after adding the Trombeta to the 230 with the randy Cuipeua. The Cuipeua shimmys at the Trombeta when he swims by. I also see some of the other Cuipeua females bowing at him too. I have observed before that the Alenquer region males are slow to pickup their side of the breeding end but once committed they are solid.

Definitely still in the maybe part of this but hopefully time will move this into the definite state...we shall see.

[MKD]

They are very nice, my fingers cross for you. Good luck Pat

««««««««««« please excuse smart phone poster error »»»»»»»»»»

[Second Hand Pat]

They are very nice, my fingers cross for you. Good luck Pat

««««««««««« please excuse smart phone poster error »»»»»»»»»»

Thanks Tony, I think it is only a matter of time. :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Here is a little wild wooing. The male swims towards the camera in the beginning and faces the wood with his tail towards the camera. The female does all the work...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DY2PAgL_GOM

[rdiscus]

Nice female, take little more time for big boy get in the game :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Ryan, my guess is three days. They will get a nice cold WC in the morning. As you can see the female is more than ready. She is waiting for him to catch up. I will say this male is the same one who paired with with the other male earlier...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?110519-And-I-Thought-Wild-Fish-Knew-Better&highlight=wilds+knew+better But I am sure he is really for a change. :D

[dirtyplants]

They are thinking about it.

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup, getting closer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cs8nAFmDMu8

[dirtyplants]

Is it my imagination or are they both getting darker.

[Second Hand Pat]

He is for sure.

[rdiscus]

Take time for him to forget his boy :o

[Second Hand Pat]

Take time for him to forget his boy :o

Lol Ryan :)

[Keith Perkins]

Body parts crossed for you Pat.

[Second Hand Pat]

Body parts crossed for you Pat.

Thanks Keith, might be able to uncross those body parts.

[Second Hand Pat]

Look how dark she is.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4285_zpsb5ac2c8b.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4285_zpsb5ac2c8b.jpg.html)

She has been wooing this male for the last several days and he finally returned her shimmy tonight. He is also getting more protective of their area.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4284_zps6e96c340.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4284_zps6e96c340.jpg.html)

They are starting to act like a couple. Hanging out...staring at wood and a little pecking. Soon I will be able to change the title of this thread I think.

[dirtyplants]

:drummer: :drummer: :drummer: and ?????

[Second Hand Pat]

:drummer: :drummer: :drummer: and ?????

Soon Coree...soon. Maybe tomorrow with a front moving through...BUT I will not separate until they make it to wiggler state. Wilds to need a little practice.

[dirtyplants]

This is great Pat, I am hoping for soon.

[rdiscus]

Soon Coree...soon. Maybe tomorrow with a front moving through...BUT I will not separate until they make it to wiggler state. Wilds to need a little practice.

Hope to see you change title soon ...

I separated my pair too soon, after first time lay egg ... They haven't done a thing after got their own tank

[Second Hand Pat]

Ryan, they seem to need the competition of a group (guessing here). I will wait until I get wigglers and then may separate. My prior pairs got it right on the third spawn and they were solid after that.

[Second Hand Pat]

This is great Pat, I am hoping for soon.

Coree, that is that on your avatar?...a mole rat?

[Nick Klimkowski]

I think i see some rigglers in the future, good luck Pat.:D

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Nick, this is the third wild pair I have worked with and I am feeling pretty confident with them.

[dirtyplants]

LOL no it is a real picture of a parasite, a rag worm. I have been looking at for to many worms of late!

[Pardal]

Pat
I just came by to see what you are up to lately, Looks like you have another great pair to work with.
Will keep my finger cross.

Julian.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Julian, I think this pair will go all the way. The male's tail was dark last night so believe we are getting closer. :D I have recently retired so can spend more time with the fish and other things. Also growing out a small group of heckels and will try my hand with them in the future. They have some growing/maturing to do. How the heck are you?
Pat

[Pardal]

Doing great Pat , one more year for me to retire but ending with a bang "deployed on May for a year to Bahrain" . I already making my plans for a fish room garage. everyday resisting the temptation of getting fish. special with Hans and Caroline Discus relative close.
Although you know my real passion these days are wilds, I want to breed them with certainty like you. domestic I love it but not that much of the challenge any more.

[musicmarn1]

Excited to hear updates on this couple ! Still got my wild fever just learning as much as I can and love seeing your hopefully pair...pair up!

[Second Hand Pat]

Doing great Pat , one more year for me to retire but ending with a bang "deployed on May for a year to Bahrain" . I already making my plans for a fish room garage. everyday resisting the temptation of getting fish. special with Hans and Caroline Discus relative close.
Although you know my real passion these days are wilds, I want to breed them with certainty like you. domestic I love it but not that much of the challenge any more.

Julian, you still retiring to Florida?..retirement is so close for you :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Excited to hear updates on this couple ! Still got my wild fever just learning as much as I can and love seeing your hopefully pair...pair up!

Me too Marnie, I think they will.

[Ardan]

Beautiful discus Pat! I hope they get going soon for you

Ardan

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Ardan, I think they will. The female is more then ready. The male is still catching up.

[Second Hand Pat]

As you can see the male is getting into the act but she is so ready.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SNC5us76cOw

[myofibroblast]

Thanks for sharing that video! So interesting! Best of luck!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks for sharing that video! So interesting! Best of luck!

You are more than welcome. I tend to share with photos and videos as the pair progress. :)

[rdiscus]

Yes he shows great color now ...

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes he shows great color now ...

He is Ryan and he is also making run drys today.....finally :D

[Nick Klimkowski]

He is Ryan and he is also making run drys today.....finally :D

Glad to here they are so close to spawning Pat, I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

[Pardal]

I hope you can catch the real thing on video Pat plus wrigglers to put the icing on the cake.

[Second Hand Pat]

Me too Julian. Since I am home most days I am sure that is possible.

[Keith Perkins]

Gee, after being gone for two days I expected more posted here by now. :)

Guess I'll have to settle for having heard today that my wife's oldest child is pregnant again.

[dirtyplants]

I'll have to settle for having heard today that my wife's oldest child is pregnant again.
Cozy, I sure hope that means all are looking on with excitement and joy. :) I think spawns are far more interesting:). How many sets of twins in a spawn?

[Second Hand Pat]

Gee, after being gone for two days I expected more posted here by now. :)

Guess I'll have to settle for having heard today that my wife's oldest child is pregnant again.

Does that make you a step grandpa Keith? :D

The male is way more committed but as a pair they can not still to settle on a spot. I hope they do soon.

[Second Hand Pat]

Here is where the pair is now. I thought they were going to commit but it did not happen. She was shaking and pecking, breeding tube out. He was making dry runs. Please excuse the dirty glass. The sun shows all the warts.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNaYDiy9rOg&feature=youtu.be

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, they are spawning and it is going to be a huge spawn.

[Len]

awesome Pat. Congrats!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Len, well post some video later.

[Second Hand Pat]

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4308_zps65f03684.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4308_zps65f03684.jpg.html)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EDjGRq3DZE

[Allwin]

Finally, good luck on wrigglers..

[joanstone]

Very exciting, looking forward to more good news!

[Nick Klimkowski]

A round of applause to you Pat. Hope to see the next video with wriggler in it.

[RLF]

They are definitely beautiful, good luck.

[Keith Perkins]

Biggest spawn you've had to date Pat? My memory isn't any too good, but I sure don't remember any that size.

[Second Hand Pat]

Finally, good luck on wrigglers..

Thanks Allwin, I have a feeling these two might get it the first time.


Very exciting, looking forward to more good news!

Thanks Joan, body parts crossed.


A round of applause to you Pat. Hope to see the next video with wriggler in it.

Me too Nick :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Biggest spawn you've had to date Pat? My memory isn't any too good, but I sure don't remember any that size.

Not sure Keith, I can not see the whole spawn.

[Second Hand Pat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqtIuRQQAk0

[Keith Perkins]

Not sure Keith, I can not see the whole spawn.

Sounds like another discus patience lesson. Hoping it has a good success rate regardless.

[Second Hand Pat]

LOL, pretty much Keith...me too.

[dirtyplants]

Way to go! Well Pat you still got that old magic going for you. Now we need wigglers.

[Second Hand Pat]

Stay tuned Coree :)

[Carolina discus]

Really awesome Pat....you have a gift with wilds...
I need to come see you on my next trip to Orlando :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Please do Eric, I would love to meet you. :)

[YSS]

Congrats, Pat.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Yun :)

[rdiscus]

I'm so behind on this since you changed the title :)

They look great, look huge too, guess they're 6-6.5"?

Hope to hear good news soon for sure ...

[Second Hand Pat]

Ryan, the male is at least six inches and he makes all my other wilds look so small. I know he is at least six inches. I know this as he was in the same tank as the heckel cross I got from Kraig a while back and that fish was six inches. Yes, I netted and measured it. This male could be a bit larger but not sure. I have learned (at least for me) that eyeball guesses are very subjective.

[rdiscus]

Talking about eyeball guessing ... we were at John house and he asked everyone $1 for the eyeball guessing game, who have close eyeballguess will win all the money ... Everyone guessed were less then the actual fish size ...

Back to your fish, I guessed he's 6-6.5" (post #74) from video, with your information ... now i think he's at least 6.5" ... female looks big too that why she had lot of egg

[Second Hand Pat]

Ryan, I would have expected the opposite. I see many here who claim to have eight inch fish but I am doubtful with many of these claims (except for Toni's). Bet that was a fun game.

If the Trombeta is 6.5 then he has grown a half inch in the time I have had him. One day I will measure him so we will know and yes, the female is the largest female I have. She has grown a lot since I have had her also.

[rdiscus]

Ryan, I would have expected the opposite. I see many here who claim to have eight inch fish but I am doubtful with many of these claims (except for Toni's). Bet that was a fun game.


Yes I have seen same thing ... but everything's bigger in texas :) Toni's is TX too :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Toni is Idaho but I understand where you are coming from Ryan :D

[Len]

any wigglers yet? Everything's bigger in Texas, but faster at Pat's

[rdiscus]

True ...

Love your pair too Len, how are they?

[Len]

Thanks Ryan. They're doing well. I'm raising a group of about 70 fry from them now that are 36 days old. The pair spawned again yesterday the day after I moved them back to my 77 with another pair.

[Second Hand Pat]

any wigglers yet? Everything's bigger in Texas, but faster at Pat's

Not sure about the faster....so do three white eggs count Len. Pair have adjusted well and are figuring out that they both do not want to leave the spawn when I drop food so neither end up eating. If the eggs make it to tomorrow I may need to decide if I want to give them a chance at raising them. This will entail adding wood to the opposite end of the tank from the spawn so the other fish have a place to go when I add the divider to the tank.

[Len]

Pat "if you want to give them a chance at raising them" is just crazy talk. Of course you do :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Well Len, I sort of intended let them spawn a couple of times to strengthen the pair bond and prove themselves. If this spawn goes to wigglers I suspect it will I be lynched if I do not give them a chance.

[Len]

Pretty much Pat. Let the parents decide what happens :)

[Keith Perkins]

Geez, both guarding the eggs and refusing food, how much stronger of a bond do you want??? :mad:

[Second Hand Pat]

Geez, both guarding the eggs and refusing food, how much stronger of a bond do you want??? :mad:

See Len, told you ^^ :o

[Second Hand Pat]

Dad egg tending

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/Dad_zpse37d98a2.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/Dad_zpse37d98a2.jpg.html)

[rdiscus]

Cool picture

[Nick Klimkowski]

Beautiful! Good dad so far?

[Second Hand Pat]

Cool picture

Thanks Ryan :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Beautiful! Good dad so far?

So far both parents are steller Nick :) both are very attentive to the eggs.

[Second Hand Pat]

Mom tending her brood.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/Mom_2_zps7e972e8e.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/Mom_2_zps7e972e8e.jpg.html)

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/Mom_1_zps4ade6e1e.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/Mom_1_zps4ade6e1e.jpg.html)

[dirtyplants]

Nice documenting Pat, pictures wonderful!

[Second Hand Pat]

Coree, if I could catch a picture of the entire spawn...you would go OMG.

[dirtyplants]

You are absolutely right!

[Nick Klimkowski]

So far both parents are steller Nick :) both are very attentive to the eggs.

Good to here Pat.

[Pardal]

Wow, Awesome Pat.

Julian

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, the pair ate their eggs but I suspect they will lay again. Since this happened I will take the opportunity to add wood to the tank for the purpose of giving the rest of the fish a place to go to and placing the wood so that a divider can easily be added at the right time.

[Keith Perkins]

:(

[Nick Klimkowski]

to bad Pat.:( I am sure that they will get the hang of it soon.

[Second Hand Pat]

No worries guys, it took my other wild pairs a couple of times to get it right. Third times a charm.

[Allwin]

Hmmm!!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Hmmm!!!

You will see :)

[Allwin]

Hope to see soon and good luck :)


You will see :)

[lofstrog]

Sorry to hear Pat. I'm sure they spawn soon again.


Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk 2

[dirtyplants]

:( :(

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, no worries...this is part of the process.

[boscobear]

Pat,
We have been following your breeding, and other videos for a few years now. I must say, you have really improved in your motion picture technic , and the video quality, terrific. The story line, or your fishy screen play is as always, entrancing, but now the sound track, LOL, and HD video recording is one of the best around. I'm still figuring out how I can post a photograph LOL
Great to see the true coloration on these marvelous wild Discus. They all have that Wild Eye look, which I find so intriguing. So different than the others.

Ron

[dirtyplants]

I am not worried, Pat, just hopped that these guys would have wigglers. I am following you, your posts are giving me with the tools needed to keep an breed wilds. Your ups and downs are mine too.:)

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat,
We have been following your breeding, and other videos for a few years now. I must say, you have really improved in your motion picture technic , and the video quality, terrific. The story line, or your fishy screen play is as always, entrancing, but now the sound track, LOL, and HD video recording is one of the best around. I'm still figuring out how I can post a photograph LOL
Great to see the true coloration on these marvelous wild Discus. They all have that Wild Eye look, which I find so intriguing. So different than the others.

Ron

Hi Ron, my nikon really helps with the HD video. I need to manually focus the lens and when in focus the video is awesome. The music is a recent addition too. :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I am not worried, Pat, just hopped that these guys would have wigglers. I am following you, your posts are giving me with the tools needed to keep an breed wilds. Your ups and downs are mine too.:)

Thanks Coree, the female is already shimmying and pecking at the wood. So it is only a matter of time.

[boscobear]

I was reading in the old forums, and someone posted 10 years ago, that it took their pair 20 spawns before they finally got it right.

[Second Hand Pat]

A wild pair Ron? My prior two wild pairs had wigglers and attachment on the third spawn.

[Pardal]

Next time for sure Pat

Julian

[Second Hand Pat]

You got it Julian

[Second Hand Pat]

So added some wood to the tank and expect a spawn very soon. Also a heckel is now bowing with the girls and being a pushy little dude.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCh6twFOqIc

[dirtyplants]

Ok I am ready.

[rdiscus]

look like heckel is looking for her mate ...

[Second Hand Pat]

Ryan, the Heckel was bowing at the females so suspect it is a young male but time with tell. It is a pushy little fish.

[joanstone]

The timing of the last spawn is the same as some curipera Xs that I have. Mine laid again last evening, so maybe any time for yours? I hope I have better luck than last time as well, but I'm not hopeful.

[Second Hand Pat]

Joan, these guys laid this past Monday so if they lay today or tomorrow that will be a seven day cycle. There is a fair chance they might eat their eggs again. Wishing you luck with the next spawn.

[joanstone]

Thanks, I'm not very hopeful. They have laid eggs many times, but the female lays them in a very spread out pattern on the side of the aquarium even though I have provided them with a nice flat surface. I would think that that would make fertilizing them a bit challenging. She doesn't lay many eggs either- maybe 75?. I might go back to an RO mix with them and give them more laying surface options, I'd like to give it a go with them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Joan, what is your GH? Also I had a couple of the Cuipeua X from Kenny when they first came out. They were both female and each paired with wild males. It took about six months for them to get to wiggler state. I lost interest in them as that was around the time the Tefe's started spawning.

[joanstone]

My gh is around 9 or 10. I would like to eliminate that as a possible reason for non hatching. I don't know if they aren't fertilized for various reasons or just can't hatch due to the water.

[Second Hand Pat]

Two things Joan, lower the GH to around 4 if you can. Also lower your temp to about 82. According to John the higher temps reduces the fertility of the male.

[joanstone]

Thanks, I'll try that.

[Second Hand Pat]

May have the second spawn tonight. Lots of shimmying, pecking and dry runs.

[joanstone]

Good luck! That's about right then. My fools laid eggs today--this time on the Cobalt Neotherm heater. That's a drawback of that heater. They're flat and you can't lay them totally horizontal or on the bottom of the tank. Eggs are fried.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Joan, this is actually 13 days since the last spawn. I am uploading a video now. Bummer on them laying on the heater.

[Second Hand Pat]

Here's the video. Not a great one as the light was not great. Music will be added later.


http://youtu.be/GVLjDO5xAXI

[joanstone]

Oh yeah, sorry missed a week. Mine can't seem to get it right. No matter what I give them to lay on, they make a different odd choice. I'm up to my eyeballs with acara eggs and fry right now anyway. Three spawns each a day apart. I've no idea what I'll do with them all. Hope you wake up to eggs tomorrow!

[joanstone]

Perfect, that's exciting!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Joan, hope they get it right soon.

[musicmarn1]

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 1 :p

Thanks Joan, hope they get it right soon.

[Second Hand Pat]

Again not great but they have a good sized spawn....

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4376_zps8b41f069.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4376_zps8b41f069.jpg.html)

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4380_zpscbfcf2e9.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4380_zpscbfcf2e9.jpg.html)

[nevsfish]

nice spawn,from one wild discus collector to another good luck hope they hatch and attach.always have had a soft spot for wild discus.lovely colours and shape.regards lawrence

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Lawrence :)

[Second Hand Pat]

This is a very large spawn. :noway:

[Kirbs]

Hope all goes well! Anxiously waiting!

[Second Hand Pat]

Hope all goes well! Anxiously waiting!

Me too...stay tuned :D

[rdiscus]

Hope to see wrigglers soon ...

[Keith Perkins]

Body parts crossed.

[dirtyplants]

Sounds like a winner to me.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hope to see wrigglers soon ...


Body parts crossed.

Thanks Ryan and Keith, me too. I am ready for some fry :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Sounds like a winner to me.

Lets hope Coree.

[Second Hand Pat]

This looks like a huge spawn to me. Anyone care to count :p

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4384_zpsc6d168de.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4384_zpsc6d168de.jpg.html)

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4381_zps2cd4f223.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4381_zps2cd4f223.jpg.html)

[joanstone]

I come up with huge by my count too.

[Larry Bugg]

Dang Pat, that is a huge spawn.

[Second Hand Pat]

Larry, I colored coded the very bottom fourth of the spawn. Six colors with 30 eggs per color is 180 eggs and stopped there. I guessing between 700 to 800 eggs.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4382-Copy_zps419d6482.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4382-Copy_zps419d6482.jpg.html)

[dirtyplants]

I was going to say Pat how can you count them out.
Well if they hatch and survive you will have your hands full. You going to be one busy lady.:)

[Second Hand Pat]

Coree, lets get these guys to wiggler stage before we start to worry.

[dirtyplants]

Sorry Pat I keep looking at your pics and wondering how the wigglers when they hatch and not get eaten, will find the parents with dark wood, so I am demanding your little male not to eat those fry, just to see how they find the parents.:)

[marinum]

Full panoramic photo .... :-)

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry Pat I keep looking at your pics and wondering how the wigglers when they hatch and not get eaten, will find the parents with dark wood, so I am demanding your little male not to eat those fry, just to see how they find the parents.:)

Coree, this is the third pair which has formed in this tank and I have pulled four batches of fry to date. If the eggs go to mid tomorrow afternoon I will insert a large foam divider between the pair and the rest of the tank.

[Second Hand Pat]

Full panoramic photo .... :-)

I will tonight when this is not reflection. The tank does not really look at much. Every time I go to add wood the darn fish decide it is spawning time.

[marinum]

Fantastic ... thanks!

[wild-blue-discus]

dammm they are some nice discus, awesome colors! Its a pity i dont see too many of this variant in Australia!

[jaykne]

Sorry Pat I keep looking at your pics and wondering how the wigglers when they hatch and not get eaten, will find the parents with dark wood, so I am demanding your little male not to eat those fry, just to see how they find the parents.:)

Coree they will have no problem, you run into problems when the parents can't get dark like albino's or pigeon's. How do you think they do it in the wild.

[jaykne]

Very nice Pat I hope the parents have learned a little since the last spawn :).

[Len]

Larry, I colored coded the very bottom fourth of the spawn. Six colors with 30 eggs per color is 180 eggs and stopped there. I guessing between 700 to 800 eggs.



Could be 2 females maybe? That seems like a lot of eggs for one fish to lay. If they are a true pair then it will certainly be happy day when the spawn hatches.

[Pardal]

Pat , I don't want to jinx it, just crossing the finger for wigglers.


Julian.

[dirtyplants]

Coree they will have no problem, you run into problems when the parents can't get dark like albino's or pigeon's. How do you think they do it in the wild.

I thought they placed their eggs on plant leaves, and you are right it's dark for the most part in their environment, so how do fry know their parents compared to a dark tree trunk?

[Keith Perkins]

I would have liked a better picture to work with, but I'm thinking...

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x418/CozyKeith/pat_zpse4d87fdd.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/CozyKeith/media/pat_zpse4d87fdd.jpg.html)

1060

[rdiscus]

Really cool picture Pat ...

[jaykne]

Could be 2 females maybe? That seems like a lot of eggs for one fish to lay. If they are a true pair then it will certainly be happy day when the spawn hatches.

Len I think the one is a male I saw him in person and I don't know just has that look of a male plus the size, I hope I'm right :). Plus no doubt she could lay that many eggs the way Pat feeds lol.

[Second Hand Pat]

dammm they are some nice discus, awesome colors! Its a pity i dont see too many of this variant in Australia!

Thanks, I have heard wilds are very hard to get in Australia.


Very nice Pat I hope the parents have learned a little since the last spawn :).

Thanks Larry, I hope so too :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Could be 2 females maybe? That seems like a lot of eggs for one fish to lay. If they are a true pair then it will certainly be happy day when the spawn hatches.

Len, I have seen the breeding tube on this male...see what you think.


http://youtu.be/qK6SCVMlnzs

[Len]

If they are a pair - OMG you're going to have a lot of little fish. I hope they are.

[Second Hand Pat]

I would have liked a better picture to work with, but I'm thinking...

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x418/CozyKeith/pat_zpse4d87fdd.jpg (http://s1180.photobucket.com/user/CozyKeith/media/pat_zpse4d87fdd.jpg.html)

1060

Holey moley Keith, that is a ton of eggs. What an awesome picture.

[Second Hand Pat]

Really cool picture Pat ...

Keith gets credit for that Ryan....Christmas in February. :D

[Second Hand Pat]

If they are a pair - OMG you're going to have a lot of little fish. I hope they are.

Tomorrow we should know Len. I went over to my parents today and arrived back about 9:30 and there are less eggs. :(...but still about 500 if Keith's count is good.

[Len]

Check the security cameras! Keith may have been in your fishroom swapping cones :)If you get wigglers and they turn out to be red turks or pigeon bloods of some sort you'll know for sure.

[Second Hand Pat]

Knowing Keith it will be red turks

[Second Hand Pat]

Just as a side note the Heckel X pair has a spawn just below the Trombeta x Cuipeua spawn and the tank temp is (ok, do not shoot me) 74.

[Keith Perkins]

Check the security cameras! Keith may have been in your fishroom swapping cones :)If you get wigglers and they turn out to be red turks or pigeon bloods of some sort you'll know for sure.


Knowing Keith it will be red turks

Yes, PB babies would definitely clear me. If I had to guess Pat I'd say if anything my count was low, so maybe you still have 600. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Well this morning Keith the egg count is zero. :( Big time bummer. The egg fairy is not being good to me.

In the meantime the little heckel X pair have about a half frozen whitest eggs. I think the male missed a couple. They have a good sized spawn but no way near the size of the Trombeta/Cuipeua pair.

[Keith Perkins]

That is a bummer.

[rdiscus]

They need more time ... sorry for new couple

You have picture of the little heckel Pat?

[Second Hand Pat]

That is a bummer.

That it is Keith :(

[Second Hand Pat]

They need more time ... sorry for new couple

You have picture of the little heckel Pat?

Thanks Ryan and yes I do. These guys are the heckel crosses that Tara brought in from Dex. I placed them in the big tank to try and get more size on them.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4393_zps95969200.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4393_zps95969200.jpg.html)

The little mom defending her eggs. The grey mass on the wood is her spawn.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4392_zps0a337731.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4392_zps0a337731.jpg.html)

[Second Hand Pat]

Ryan, here is a better picture of the heckel X pair...

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4102_zps0c2e72fc.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4102_zps0c2e72fc.jpg.html)

[rdiscus]

They're nice ... You try to get more size on them, but they try to get more baby for you :)

[Second Hand Pat]

They're nice ... You try to get more size on them, but they try to get more baby for you :)

Exactly the issue Ryan. I have found the best way to get size on my sub-adult wilds is to place them in the big tank and heckel crosses (there are three) have grown since added them to the big tank. I will leave them to tend the spawn and if the eggs should hatch the pair is confirmed but the wigglers will not last long.

[musicmarn1]

Pat do you mix strains of your wilds or no , if im not trying to breed, and i do well with my first 6 Tefe in the 230g (after weeks of QT in the bb im not going to put my first wilds in a planted tank i can happily tell you i only thought that would be great since its so established and the water quality is so much better in planted, for my water BUT after learning from Al's thread about threat of parasites etc from the tank mates, in there i wont do it until my feet are firmly under me with wilds but i may put anubias etc in the 230g all on driftwood so i can keep everything else clean after a few months of knowing what im doing in there)

anyway my question is once i am ready to put them in the 230g id really like to add a few cuipeua or x cuipeua as these are my number one fave wilds - will it be ok after QT of course, to mix strains or do you avoid that due to breeding is there another reason you avoid that? id hate to only have one type of wild and the 230g will be my only wild tank apart from smaller QT or grow out bb tanks.

[Second Hand Pat]

Marnie, I generally prefer to not mix different types of wilds as I prefer single "strains" tanks. However in the 230 ATM I have the heckels, heckel crosses (domestic x heckel) and the Cuipeua. Both the heckels and heckel crosses are sub-adults and I added them to grow and mature them out. The heckels I believe have reached near to full size and I am moving them soon to their own tank.

However I never mix until after a good QT period.

[jaykne]

Ryan, here is a better picture of the heckel X pair...

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4102_zps0c2e72fc.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Heckel%20Crosses/DSC_4102_zps0c2e72fc.jpg.html)

These guys are some really nice fish!!!

[jaykne]

Well this morning Keith the egg count is zero. :( Big time bummer. The egg fairy is not being good to me.

Sorry to hear Pat but like you said it took 3 times with your other wild pairs so maybe next one will be the charm :).

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are some really nice fish!!!

Thanks Larry, the male is not letting the female fan the eggs so she is doing guard duty. She is the smallest fish in the tank and size does not matter :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry to hear Pat but like you said it took 3 times with your other wild pairs so maybe next one will be the charm :).

The pair is acting much more like a pair so hopefully it will be.

[dirtyplants]

Ouch! Well maybe this next time. Each time seems to be one step forward.

[Second Hand Pat]

Ouch! Well maybe this next time. Each time seems to be one step forward.

Yes Coree and the couple dynamics just get better.

[Second Hand Pat]

Is there always this much discord between domestic pairs :( I have not had a wild pair act like this.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayVzp7IRluQ

[Keith Perkins]

No, not always. On the other hand I don't even see any scales missing on them, you call that discord? I've had pairs end up looking like leopards. Looks pretty mild to me by domestic standards.

[Len]

Looks like they're just both being very attentive. Fingers crossed for you :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Keith, guess you can tell I am not use to the pushing.

Len, he will not let her fan so she is stuck with guard duty.

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, the eggs of the heckel X are gone.

[rdiscus]

Sorry Pat ... another pair need more time to learn

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Ryan but I would rather the heckel Xs grow rather then raise little ones so not too concerned about them but interesting to watch the couple dynamics :)

[Allwin]

Any ways to cover the eggs with mesh or something, just to confirm these guys?:confused:

[Second Hand Pat]

Allwin, not in this tank and with them spawning on wood. No worries, they will figure it out. :D

[Allwin]

Gotcha :)

Allwin, not in this tank and with them spawning on wood. No worries, they will figure it out. :D

[Second Hand Pat]

It seems to be getting a little nuts on the big tank. It seems like there is another pair forming...both Cuipeua. The one Cuipeua male seems to finally be getting into the mood and his love is the female of the breeding pair from last year. Forgive me if I run for the hills :grin:

[musicmarn1]

hahaha !! oh Dear Pat !! but wooohooo ! get the honey moon suite's ready :p

[Second Hand Pat]

It's already reserved for the big pair. Guess they will have to wait their turn.

[Keith Perkins]

Just do what they do everywhere with hussies like yours, rent it by the hour.

[Second Hand Pat]

They would need it at least a month lol

[dirtyplants]

Pat you know what will happen, all of them, all at once, all wigglers swimming every where, looking for mummy and daddy, confused, latching onto the closest adult, mummy and daddy wondering why their kids don't look like them, parents looking at each other suspiciously oops time for a collective. :)

[Larry Bugg]

Dang, what I wouldn't give for your troubles, lol.

[Second Hand Pat]

Dang, what I wouldn't give for your troubles, lol.

With a little luck Larry your fish room will be exploding soon :)

[Keith Perkins]

What about mine? :mad:

[Second Hand Pat]

What about mine? :mad:

You hope to have wilds breeding to Keith??

[Larry Bugg]

With a little luck Larry your fish room will be exploding soon :)

Thanks Pat but I expect it to be a while. Just takes so darn long for wilds to really settle in.

[Keith Perkins]

You hope to have wilds breeding to Keith??

Haha

[Second Hand Pat]

Should have a spawn this weekend with a little luck. This pair is making me work for it. Timing large cool wc with passing storms plus this pair seems to be on a 14 day cycle. They are pecking, shimmying and staring at wood tonight.

I also removed the Heckel crosses from the big tank. They are going to live with Larry (Jayne) so Larry has another pair to work with.

[musicmarn1]

lucky Larry !! wooohooo more wild action tv to *watch* :D Best of luck Pat, i can't wait to be a surrogate Aunty, i want to see a batch make it all the way in your beautiful care.

[israelillo81]

In looking forward too


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[jaykne]

Yes Pat was kind enough to give me a chance to work with those Heckel crosses I love them. Pat I really have a good feeling about the next time that wild pair spawns for you I think they will get it right this time :).

[Second Hand Pat]

lucky Larry !! wooohooo more wild action tv to *watch* :D Best of luck Pat, i can't wait to be a surrogate Aunty, i want to see a batch make it all the way in your beautiful care.

Thank Marnie, I actually plan on growing out any juvies in a outdoor pool and no worries. I plan on documenting that plus will give me a chance to play with the go pro.

[Second Hand Pat]

In looking forward too


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Thanks Israel

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes Pat was kind enough to give me a chance to work with those Heckel crosses I love them. Pat I really have a good feeling about the next time that wild pair spawns for you I think they will get it right this time :).

Larry, I can not think of a better home than yours :) and I hope you are right.

[joanstone]

Should have a spawn this weekend with a little luck. This pair is making me work for it. Timing large cool wc with passing storms plus this pair seems to be on a 14 day cycle. They are pecking, shimmying and staring at wood tonight.

I also removed the Heckel crosses from the big tank. They are going to live with Larry (Jayne) so Larry has another pair to work with.

Mine did yesterday, so you should. (Back on the heater, even though I moved it and thought I had it as out of the way as I could. This time I saw them start and turned it off.) Good luck!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Joan, sounds like you need to add another heater. Hope this pair confirms for you if that is what you want.

[joanstone]

Yes, I added another back up heater a while ago. At this point, it would be nice to have it confirmed but it's their last chance for a while. I really need to take down some tanks to fix up/paint my fish room as we will be putting our house on the market this Spring. Gotta get rid of a bunch of fish soon.

[Second Hand Pat]

Should have spawn three tomorrow and appears another Heckel is declaring itself a male. Whole darn tanks is juiced.

[Keith Perkins]

Isn't love grand. :love:

[Second Hand Pat]

And fun :o

[Second Hand Pat]

The pair was currently spawning and they are night time spawners. They seem to be on a 13 day cycle. Pictures later.

[Second Hand Pat]

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4405_zpsed0912de.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4405_zpsed0912de.jpg.html)
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4406_zps79274f87.jpg (http://s925.photobucket.com/user/Second_Hand_Pat/media/Trombeta%20x%20Cuipeua/DSC_4406_zps79274f87.jpg.html)

[rdiscus]

She holds until she can get 1,000 egg and lay :)

Good luck this time Pat

[Keith Perkins]

I'm not looking forward to a good picture of the eggs...I've got too much to do. :)

[musicmarn1]

lol ! looking great Pat :D

[Larry Bugg]

Sweet. Fingers crossed.

[Second Hand Pat]

She holds until she can get 1,000 egg and lay :)

Good luck this time Pat

Good point :) thanks Ryan.

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm not looking forward to a good picture of the eggs...I've got too much to do. :)

I will work on that tomorrow Keith :)

[Second Hand Pat]

lol ! looking great Pat :D

Thanks Marnie :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Sweet. Fingers crossed.

Thanks Larry, I am adding the foam and hope to confirm these guys. :D

[jaykne]

Good luck Pat and from the picture you took looks like another huge spawn :).

[dirtyplants]

Holding my breath, turning blue.:)

[eranio]

Amazing pair! Good luck this time!!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Good luck Pat and from the picture you took looks like another huge spawn :).

It was Larry :(


Holding my breath, turning blue.:)

Coree, let your breath go.


Amazing pair! Good luck this time!!!

Thanks

So mom ate the eggs tonight and it was another huge spawn. So the eggs lasted about 24 hours. This pair seems to be on a 13 day spawn cycle so the next spawn will be Mar 12. The TDS is currently in the mid eighties and I am going to drop it further to see if helps with getting this pair confirmed.

[jaykne]

I would try to aim for 40 Pat. When I did use RO on my domestic fish that is what did and seemed to have better luck.

[Second Hand Pat]

I would try to aim for 40 Pat. When I did use RO on my domestic fish that is what did and seemed to have better luck.

Thanks Larry

[Second Hand Pat]

So I tried a little experiment with the temp as I have had success with maintaining a temp of 78 while the pair are spawning and raising fry. First I lowered the temp to 75 and all good. Then lowered it to 72, well not so good. The fish went off their food and got shiddish...oops. So eased the temp back to 81 and the fish are getting back to feeding and caught the female shimmying yesterday afternoon.

[winn0923]

I left the temp at 74 for a while actually pat (not on purpose, turned it off during wc). It was off for two weeks since it was the week during Xmas and we were busy w family and friends. Good thing our condo stayed pretty warm. My pair still breed at that low temp and eating normally. I did keep them for a while at 78 also following your advice and they did just fine at that temp.


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[winn0923]

What a difference 2 degree can make lol! I wonder if mine ever drop down to 72 or below during that week. When i checked during the next wc it was right at 74


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[Second Hand Pat]

Winn, if your home stayed at 74 there is a good chance the tank did to.

[Second Hand Pat]

For those of you who follow along with my silly breeding antics with the wild fish then you know I went as low as 72 and stayed there for a few days. Well, guess what. Some of the fish developed with a internal bacteria infection. Currently I am treating with a antibiotic under Al's direction and the fish are responding well to the treatment but the 10 day treatment will cost me a few days on a planned trip to see my daughter.

[winn0923]

Ouch pat :( sorry to hear


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