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jjb
04-28-2014, 09:40 AM
Hello all, I'm new to the forum but was happy to have found it and learned a lot from the posts and sticky threads.
I was an aquarium enthusiast years ago, and got out of it about 10 years ago. I did tropical community and a reef system, both in 40 gallon tanks. I have basic knowledge. At the time I was too poor to afford to care for the reef properly and it wasn't successful. I feel guilty for killing fish and coral and harming the reefs. This was during the 90s before coral and clowns were aquaculturable.
I want to get back into the hobby again. I'm debating between another reef, fully aquacultured livestock, or discus, captive bred. I like the captive bred stuff because I consider it to be environmentally friendly.
I think aquariums are ethical because aside from being beautiful they teach people to appreciate ecosystems and how delicate they are. I wouldn't do a FOWLR with wild caught fish. Just my personal preference.
I love discus, but I'm worried that I won't be able to do frequent enough water changes. I work long hours and commute, and this is an issue for me.
The thing that attracts me to a reef is that although the set up would be at least double in price, the thing ultimately becomes pretty low maintenance. Big skimmer, good mechanical filter, calcium reactor, automatic top offs and trace elements, only a few aquacultures clownfish on the reef, in a 180 gallon tank or so, and the bioload would be fairly small. The thing would need infrequent water changes, and I could get away with an automatic feeder and periodically emptying the skimmer. Could be maintained in 5-10 mins a day. It would be expensive.
That said, I personally love discus. Discus does it for me. Big beautiful fish, schooling in a clean tank, with a few live plants, just does it for me. It's what the aquarium hobby is all about. I would buy full grown fish.
So the issue would be water changes. I want to do as few as possible... bottom line. Once a week would be ideal.
The thing is I don't want to do a half baked thing. So I'm wondering if this is really feasible?
The problem with a big discus tank is that unlike a reef I can't skim. So water changes are a must.
My solution is simply to go big and then under stock. In a finished basement, I might do a 240 gallon setup, with another big refugium/sump, and then under stock the tank with perhaps 8 full grown discus.
I might include a small school of tetras of some variety as well just so there's some more motion in the aquarium.
Let's say money isn't an object for the sake of argument (it is really but something I've been saving for). Has anyone had success with creating a low maintenance system with a large understocked tank? Is my thinking flawed?
Or with my low maintenance requirements, am I better to go reef? I can be very happy with a nice reef as well. It's just as beautiful in a different way.
Thank you for your advice,
Joe

timmy82
04-28-2014, 09:59 AM
Mate your idea's and thoughts are on track with starting with adult discus as you would have a very hard time trying to grow out young with that kind of regimine. Have you thought of trying to automate a flood and drain kind of set up so the water gets topped up and the old overflows out to garden or drain ect? Adult discus in a low load system should be ok with a weekly change and some plants in their too will help as well.

Dkings
04-28-2014, 10:49 AM
With adult discus(8 as you stated) you should be fine. Just make sure you have a cleanup crew of small clown loaches or Cory cats a bristle nose and some dither fish like tetras your 240 with a nice piece of driftwood and a few amazon swords. Keep the temperature at 84 degrees F and learn to control ph with water your using. I use to/di water so I prevent ph crash with crushed coral bagged in one of tank's filters. Lastly, I've a uv sterilizer on each tank. I do a 30 % water change weekly and my wilds and domestic discus are doing great. Just my opinion, but I love discus over reef. Good luck

discuspaul
04-28-2014, 11:53 AM
Adult discus + very low bio-load & lightly planted tank makes once weekly wc quite acceptable.

musicmarn1
04-28-2014, 12:01 PM
You have a sound plan for both, go with your heart or you will end up with both! Lol I wanted both, I chose discus, my lfs expert on reefs says keeping the reef balance is harder but it might be untrue but it tipped me to dis us and my goodness I cant imagine anything else

jjb
04-28-2014, 01:06 PM
Thanks everyone for the fast replies! I think discus are for me.
People like different things. For some (not me) it's Arowana!
Discus are in my heart. They aren't to be underestimated, but I think tropical freshwater will always be more forgiving than marine. The guy at the fish store tells you it's easy cause he wants to sell you a ton of devices to support that reef. To me a nice big pigeon blood discus is just as beautiful as a blue tang or a clown. I personally prefer it.
And I love the fact that it's totally aquacultured fish.
The suggestion for a few bottom feeders is great. And I will set up a system to semi automate the water changes. I think I can do two most weeks, honestly. But if I go away for a few weeks and need someone to come in to take care of the fish it's important for it to be as easy as possible.
So having made that decision, I'm going to go big and under stock.
I'll dig up the thread again and post some photos as it gets rolling this summer. Thanks everyone!

CraigJ
05-02-2014, 11:03 PM
Hello Joe,

Who says you can't have both discus and a reef. Take a look at what Paul created; http://s1219.photobucket.com/user/pscramer/media/The%20Fish%20Tank%20System/The%20Aquarium/002_zps38eade69.jpg.html?sort=4&o=0. Paul was kind enough to detail and share his system starting here; http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?108768-Getting-the-WOW-Affect-with-Allot-Less-Work-Part-1-The-Aquarium

Good luck,

Craig

pastry
05-03-2014, 10:37 AM
I think you'll enjoy discus and you have a good plan. Keep a big tank understocked and you'll be able to do "low maintenance". I do twice a week (65-70% each time) WC's. Mine's low maintenance. I have a thread in the planted section (Growing out in planted tank). I would definitely say get adults or semi-adult discus so I'm not suggesting growing them out in a planted by mentioning my thread. There's more in it that you could probably see as take-aways (success & failures). Check it out and shoot me any questions if you'd like. Overall, I hope you choose discus because I like your thinking.

jsgmpv
05-05-2014, 12:03 PM
I think anyone loves a good reef, they are beautiful and very colorful, but for me discus are something very special, and the fact that such beautiful fish love to swim together and stay in groups looks even better.

jjb
05-25-2014, 12:18 PM
Thanks Craig, that's a cool fish tank. I was googling to find an example of someone who did that.
Back in the day had I known about discus I would have done discus rather than reef. For reef you need a lot of gear. For discus you need water changes and water is pretty cheap.

aquadon2222
05-29-2014, 05:32 AM
With adult discus(8 as you stated) you should be fine. Just make sure you have a cleanup crew of small clown loaches or Cory cats a bristle nose and some dither fish like tetras your 240 with a nice piece of driftwood and a few amazon swords. Keep the temperature at 84 degrees F and learn to control ph with water your using. I use to/di water so I prevent ph crash with crushed coral bagged in one of tank's filters. Lastly, I've a uv sterilizer on each tank. I do a 30 % water change weekly and my wilds and domestic discus are doing great. Just my opinion, but I love discus over reef. Good luck

+1...get adults, get a good filtration system, and 30% weekly water changes should be fine to raise healthy fish. If you're trying to max out their size, you'll have to do more WCs. It's my understanding that aquarium fish produce hormones that requlate their size according to the size of their environment, and by frequently changing the water, you remove those hormones and the fish are able to grow to their maximum potential.

aquadon2222
05-29-2014, 05:38 AM
grown inhibiting hormones in the water: from injaf.org:

Fish breeders have demonstrated that large frequent water changes can aid good growth as these dilute and/or remove some of the growth inhibiting hormones such as somatostatin. Mark Brumell (PFK interview with Jeremy Gay, 2012) recommends an unlimited supply of fresh water for optimal growth.