300g heavy planted tank... kh question.

[cb684]

Hey all,
I got about 18 different discus (over 1yo) in a hi tech, stablished (1.5 years), 300g, heavy planted tank (see pics). I use to have algae in control until my fish realized how tasty the Amano shrimp were. They ate all 40 of them. Since them I've had more algae mainly on the delicate leafs plants (anubias, rocks and glass algae are controlled by 300 olive nerite). I believe this is in part caused by the growth of the plants that slowed down due to constant water changes (7% daily), that do control the phosphates, but caused the kh to be <1. Without buffering system, my pH is usually ,<6.0 fluctuating from 5.5 to 6.2 during the day. My C02 system is barely turning on, since I have it set to disable if the pH is lower than 6.2.
I am planning to increase the alkalinity with a dosing pump, and would like to keep it around 4. How many of you have a stablished tank with healthy discus and kh higher than 4?

Here some pictures...

Picture 1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sfxr73ppiyn0k6/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-09%20at%204.34.09%20PM.jpg)

Picture 2 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/js9wd4gdu2l926t/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-09%20at%204.34.29%20PM.jpg)

Picture 3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6nl8tof2v8jyihi/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-09%20at%204.34.47%20PM.jpg)

[rbarn]

Discus dont mind harder water. It just messes with breeding and egg development. Just keeping it consistent is the key.

[cb684]

Well, I don't plan to add multivalent cations, just Sodium Carbonate. But yes, I'll be careful so changes will be made slowly (not more than 1 dKh / day) and once reached 4 dKh I will keep it dosing Sodium Carbonate (baked baking soda) multiple times a day.

[cb684]

Hey all,
I got about 18 different discus (over 1yo) in a hi tech, stablished (1.5 years), 300g, heavy planted tank (see pics). I use to have algae in control until my fish realized how tasty the Amano shrimp were. They ate all 40 of them. Since them I've had more algae mainly on the delicate leafs plants (anubias, rocks and glass algae are controlled by 300 olive nerite). I believe this is in part caused by the growth of the plants that slowed down due to constant water changes (7% daily), that do control the phosphates, but caused the kh to be <1. Without buffering system, my pH is usually ,<6.0 fluctuating from 5.5 to 6.2 during the day. My C02 system is barely turning on, since I have it set to disable if the pH is lower than 6.2.
I am planning to increase the alkalinity with a dosing pump, and would like to keep it around 4. How many of you have a stablished tank with healthy discus and kh higher than 4?

Here some pictures...

Picture 1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/5sfxr73ppiyn0k6/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-09%20at%204.34.09%20PM.jpg)

Picture 2 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/js9wd4gdu2l926t/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-09%20at%204.34.29%20PM.jpg)

Picture 3 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6nl8tof2v8jyihi/Screen%20Shot%202014-06-09%20at%204.34.47%20PM.jpg)

[jmf3460]

that is a beautiful tank. Do you have any full tank shots??

[musicmarn1]

beautiful tank !!my 90g is giving me the WORST time with algae, i messed up the soil (too much fert in there) and ive done everything with the lights and algae eaters and no dosing since, etc but im just struglling myself will be following this with interest.

really really stunning tank, much better than my efforts lol !!

[cb684]

Hi Jacklyn,
This is not a great picture, but is from yesterday...

300g full.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yo0e7koxbf7jgm2/300g.jpg)

[cb684]

Hi Marnie,
Here is a picture of the full tank from yesterday...

300g full.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yo0e7koxbf7jgm2/300g.jpg)

Ok. So here is the plan:
Yesterday I started adding Sodium Carbonate enough to add 1 dKh / day (165 mL of a solution of about 1,900 meq/L of alkalinity) without discounting the losses from my daily water changes. Later today I will reassess the alkalinity and adjust the peristaltic pump. I will continue this until the alkalinity reaches 4 dKh, when then I will adjust to maintain the levels. I hope to see plants growing faster soon.
I will try to keep this thread updated on a weekly basis.

Camilo.

[pcsb23]

I've merged the two thread on this topic you had running concurrently, please only post one thread per topic, thanks.

Seems like you have too much science and not enough knowledge going on re your plants. The biggest causes of algae is too much light and fluctuating CO2 (carbon) - put them both together and you algae will have a file day. pH controllers should be re-named to algae producers imo/e, because they inevitably lead to algae growing!

In a high tech tank (with or without discus) I add NO3 and PO4, so don't know why you are trying to "control" it. There are lots of numbers thrown around regarding what there should be of this that and the other fertiliser, best bet is to forget about all of it for now.

Lets be clear, discus will do fine in water with high KH, and by high I mean 10 or more!

You have water with low KH so I'd advise raising that to at least 3 if you intend to keep using injected CO2. Start with a consistent lighting period (no siestas or anything) of around 8 hours and set the CO2 to a steady rate, don't aim for any specific target just yet, a consistent amount of CO2 is more important than x, y or z ppm. Do a search for EI dosing methods, and does ferts as appropriate, remember high light, CO2 injected tanks require high fert levels. The lights may be the issue, they may be too much or on too long (8 hours may be too long btw). It takes time and patience to get right.

Put your CO2 on a timer (if it isn't already) using a solenoid to witch on a couple of hours before the lights, and switch off a couple of hours before lights out, no need for CO2 injection at night. The photoperiod should be consistent too so the lights should be on a timer if not already.

One thing is for sure, trying to use precise measurements will end in failure. Fluctuating levels of CO2 will end in failure. Too much light will end in failure.

[cb684]

Hi Paul,
Thank you for merging the two treads! I wanted to do that but did not know how.
This is a mature tank of about 1,5 years. The reason for controlling them is because I already add a lot of nitrate and phosphate through food for the discus. This tank has a high density of fish and plants (take a look at the picture I posted). The light (10hs/day), has not been changed for at least one year and algae only became a problem on the last 3 to 4 months. I believe this was caused mostly due to the increase of fish mass in the tank (the discus grew-up) and feeding regimen, and the plant growth that slowed down due to the low pH and my settings for the CO2. CO2 is injected during the time the lights are on and the pH is above 6.2.
Anyways, thank you for your reply, it is good to know that discus are successfully being kept on high kH.
About the "not enough knowledge", isn't that why we all are here? I am always happy when I learn something new!
Thanks again.
CB.

[pcsb23]

Hi Paul,
Thank you for merging the two treads! I wanted to do that but did not know how. No probs, and you can't ;)



This is a mature tank of about 1,5 years. The reason for controlling them is because I already add a lot of nitrate and phosphate through food for the discus. This tank has a high density of fish and plants (take a look at the picture I posted). The light (10hs/day), has not been changed for at least one year and algae only became a problem on the last 3 to 4 months. I believe this was caused mostly due to the increase of fish mass in the tank (the discus grew-up) and feeding regimen, and the plant growth that slowed down due to the low pH and my settings for the CO2. CO2 is injected during the time the lights are on and the pH is above 6.2.
Anyways, thank you for your reply, it is good to know that discus are successfully being kept on high kH.
About the "not enough knowledge", isn't that why we all are here? I am always happy when I learn something new!
Thanks again.
CB.I think you are missing the points I made. The reason for algae is simple, too much light and poor CO2.

In my current tank (no discus at the moment) I add half a teaspoon of potassium nitrate a day, when I ran a high tech planted discus tank of around 75 US gals (heavily stocked too) I added a rounded teaspoon of KNO3 every other day ...if you want to dismiss the advice then fine, but I am not advising you to do anything I wouldn't or already haven't done. To be clear I add other nutrients too as well as having injected CO2.

You have algae, you had critters to "control" the algae (they may eat it, but they don't fix the underlying problems). Your plants are "slowing down", you want answers yet don't want to take advice that is offered?

[cb684]

Again thank you for your reply... I do appreciate you taking the time to share your knowledge and experience.


I think you are missing the points I made. The reason for algae is simple, too much light and poor CO2.

I think you are right, I did not understand your point on your first post. And interestingly I think we are talking about similar things. First, when I mentioned to increase kH in my first post, the whole point of it was to be able to increase the amount of CO2 I am adding to the tank. And when I said I wanted to decrease phosphates, I meant decreasing the available phosphate for the algae by increasing its use by the plants once they start to grow fast again.


You have algae, you had critters to "control" the algae (they may eat it, but they don't fix the underlying problems). Your plants are "slowing down", you want answers yet don't want to take advice that is offered?
By all means, I AM taking the advice... ;-)

[pcsb23]

The trick to beating algae generally speaking is to change one thing at a time and assess, the first thing you need to get a handle on is the kh. You need higher kh so you are able to add CO2 continuosly throughout the photoperiod - ok, technically speaking from 2 hours before lights on, to 2 before lights off. Personally I'd ditch the pH controller, more trouble than they are worth ime. From what I can see in the pics you have a couple of power heads to aid disstribution of the CO2 (and other ferts).

Getting a stable amount of CO2 will be a start, but you will need to feed the plants too. Dry powders are by far the most economical way with large tanks.

Also, phosphates don't cause algae, a lack of phosphates (technically phosphour) will be a cause of alage but too much won't. In previous tanks I have deliberately overdosed algae and had not algae issues at all. PO4 causing algae is one of those myths ;) ...

[du3ce]

wow sweeet tank