Sponge Filter Question & My filter system..Long but need answers Please!

[Snow]

After reading & rereading the "stickies" and many post on here, I want to make sure that I am understanding something correctly.

I am using an Aquartop AF-400 in my 75 gallon with a power head on 1 side & spray bar across the back. My first question regarding this is, should the spray bar to be pointed out into the water, upwards towards to top or down toward the bottom. I'm asking so that I will know which is best for aerating the tank. Or does this even matter?

Next, I have seen where many put a sponge filter of sorts on the intake part of their filters. When I cleaned out my filter today it was pretty gunked up and needed a good rinsing. Would it help If I found a sponge filter to put over my intake as well to help keep some of this gunk out of my filters that are then putting water back in my tank. If so, any suggestions as to what kind or pore size of these filters. I don't mind having to modify them a bit to fit or anything.

I check my water almost daily and my ammonia has been 0, my nitrites have been 0 & my ph has not changed from tap to tank 7. However, every so often I have been getting small ammonia spikes but 0 nitrites. Today at work my daughter called and the fish just wasn't acting normal. Kind of turning on their sides (but not laying on the bottom or top) and then they would quickly right them selves. I had her do an ammonia test that was off the charts green (dark green) but 0 nitrites. I'm a bit confused on all of this. I do water changes every Sunday & siphon up the poop & food & what not. Every time I do that my water turns cloudy & the ammonia goes up. I did a little research and was told that I should only deep clean the bottom on 1 side while doing the WC & then next week deep clean the other side with the WC. This is so that I wouldn't be depleting all the good bacteria. At 1 time. Is this true?

I guess my question(s) are should I be doing more WC's, more WC's with deep cleaning (I have a very thin layer of sand in my tank & no live plants, or could all of this be because my filter got all nasty & placing a sponge filter on it may help.

[Len]

After reading & rereading the "stickies" and many post on here, I want to make sure that I am understanding something correctly.

I am using an Aquartop AF-400 in my 75 gallon with a power head on 1 side & spray bar across the back. My first question regarding this is, should the spray bar to be pointed out into the water, upwards towards to top or down toward the bottom. I'm asking so that I will know which is best for aerating the tank. Or does this even matter? (If you want aeration aim the spray to the surface of the water. This will also minimize the current in the tank)

Next, I have seen where many put a sponge filter of sorts on the intake part of their filters. When I cleaned out my filter today it was pretty gunked up and needed a good rinsing. Would it help If I found a sponge filter to put over my intake as well to help keep some of this gunk out of my filters that are then putting water back in my tank. If so, any suggestions as to what kind or pore size of these filters. I don't mind having to modify them a bit to fit or anything.
(What you are seeing is a sponge prefilter made to fit the intake tubes of canisters and HOBs , and yes they do make a big differnce in the amount of gunk that builds up in your canister filter)
I check my water almost daily and my ammonia has been 0, my nitrites have been 0 & my ph has not changed from tap to tank 7. However, every so often I have been getting small ammonia spikes but 0 nitrites. Today at work my daughter called and the fish just wasn't acting normal. Kind of turning on their sides (but not laying on the bottom or top) and then they would quickly right them selves. I had her do an ammonia test that was off the charts green (dark green) but 0 nitrites. I'm a bit confused on all of this. I do water changes every Sunday & siphon up the poop & food & what not. Every time I do that my water turns cloudy & the ammonia goes up. I did a little research and was told that I should only deep clean the bottom on 1 side while doing the WC & then next week deep clean the other side with the WC. This is so that I wouldn't be depleting all the good bacteria. At 1 time. Is this true? (no, it isnèt true. The beneficial bacteria will mostly reside in your filter media. If you have a substrate and aren't cleaning it thoroughly, you are getting a lot of built up waste and this will lead to problems with water quality.)

I guess my question(s) are should I be doing more WC's, more WC's with deep cleaning (I have a very thin layer of sand in my tank & no live plants, or could all of this be because my filter got all nasty & placing a sponge filter on it may help. (You haven't said how much water you are changing, but you should definitely be cleaning the sand well each time, preferably daily)

[rickztahone]

Lets answer each question one at a time here:


I am using an Aquartop AF-400 in my 75 gallon with a power head on 1 side & spray bar across the back. My first question regarding this is, should the spray bar to be pointed out into the water, upwards towards to top or down toward the bottom. I'm asking so that I will know which is best for aerating the tank. Or does this even matter?

Many, including me, would say that it does matter where your spray bar is pointing, especially if you do not have a sponge filter or an airation stone in the tank. I typically always point my flow upwards to the water line. This creates a bit of turbulence at the surface but it isn't ridiculously strong. If your flow is too strong, you can always point it further away but still aiming towards the top. If you have a sponge filter, I suppose you can point the spray bar anywhere.


Next, I have seen where many put a sponge filter of sorts on the intake part of their filters. When I cleaned out my filter today it was pretty gunked up and needed a good rinsing. Would it help If I found a sponge filter to put over my intake as well to help keep some of this gunk out of my filters that are then putting water back in my tank. If so, any suggestions as to what kind or pore size of these filters. I don't mind having to modify them a bit to fit or anything.

Yes, these are called pre-filters. Many of us fashion them in our tanks because discus tend to be messy eaters. I personally hate having them in my tank because they kill the look of the tank, but it is a necessary evil. I can get away with feeding Forrests' pellets because they sink so quickly, but things like flakes, FDBW and other like foods will eventually end up in your filter. This isn't necessarily a horrible thing, it only means you must clean your filter more often.


I check my water almost daily and my ammonia has been 0, my nitrites have been 0 & my ph has not changed from tap to tank 7. However, every so often I have been getting small ammonia spikes but 0 nitrites. Today at work my daughter called and the fish just wasn't acting normal. Kind of turning on their sides (but not laying on the bottom or top) and then they would quickly right them selves. I had her do an ammonia test that was off the charts green (dark green) but 0 nitrites. I'm a bit confused on all of this. I do water changes every Sunday & siphon up the poop & food & what not. Every time I do that my water turns cloudy & the ammonia goes up. I did a little research and was told that I should only deep clean the bottom on 1 side while doing the WC & then next week deep clean the other side with the WC. This is so that I wouldn't be depleting all the good bacteria. At 1 time. Is this true?

For this one you will have to tell us in which way you started your cycle. How long has this tank been running. It sounds like your beneficial bacteria is still not mature enough. If you have seeded media from another tank, you can always place some in with this tank to help the bio-load and speed up the cycle process. Additionally, I noticed that you won a couple auctions from Kenny. I strongly recommend asking Kenny to sell you a couple of seeded sponge filters to send with the discus. In this way, it will help seed your filter faster, or almost instantly.


I guess my question(s) are should I be doing more WC's, more WC's with deep cleaning (I have a very thin layer of sand in my tank & no live plants, or could all of this be because my filter got all nasty & placing a sponge filter on it may help

How thick is your sand bed? Some times the sand can cause problems if it is too thick and you move it around to expose pockets. I've always said more WC's are a good thing. If you were to do 100% WC's every day, you wouldn't really be relying on filter media. However, WC's shouldn't hurt your filter media, unless you forget to plug a filter back in or something and leave it off for a very long time.

I hope some of this helped. Good luck, and please keep us updated.

I would recommend filling out the sickness form just to be sure about all of your parameters.

[Snow]

As far as the fish I'm getting from Kenny they are going into my other tank that has been up and running for years now. It house only 4 cardinal tetra's. So that's not an issue right now.

When I cycled my tank I did a fishles one. I first had the ammonia spike and let it run it course quickly after that I had the niTRIE spike and let it run it's course. After everything was showing 0 for a week or so I added 5 small red fin tetra's & 5 lemon tetra's. They have been in the tank since then. Everything stayed at o so I got some 4 inch Discus from Hans. It wasn't until I started doing the water changes that my tank clouded up a white milky color. You could still see through it & pretty much looked clear from the front but looking from end to end you could really tell it was cloudy. I then Checked the water and had an ammonia spike. I thought maybe I had just cleaned to much since I did the sand and glass. I changed 15 gallons of water that time. And do that weekly.

My sand on the bottom is an inch or less thick. I used pool sand that was inert. It was a 50lb bag and some of that has been removed.

I do have media on hand right now that I could put in the tank to help it if you think that would be a good idea. Should I use a filter or rock from the bottom of the tank in a mesh bag? Or I could do both. My fish look good at this point swimming, no clamped fins, color is good and no more leaning. But I want to end this ammonia issue.

I also added some prime to help cu the ammonia since it was so high. And I will be getting a filter to go over the intake tomorrow. I have just never had this kind if trouble with a HOB filter & bio wheel. I'm Seriously considering that for this tank now.

[Mikemeets]

Tap water sometimes has ammonia in, do u mature your water and condition it With good water conditioner? Up your water changes to 50%+ every 2 to 3 days... most in forum wpuld say 50%+ everyday for fussy diiscus

[Snow]

I have never really had to age my water for any other of my fish tanks. Now my husband does for his. I was doing the weekly change of 20 - 30% according to the information Hans sent me with the fish. However, since I have an issue with the water I do understand changing more & more often at this point.

I will be getting the "pre" filter today to go over my intake and I will be getting some sort of large container to age my water today as well. I will also add a heater to it so that I can keep it the same temp. And I will get a pump with an aeration stone to keep it moving. I will have to find a way to get the aged water into the tank. Carrying those 5 gallon buckets are killing my back LOL.

Things are looking much better this morning as far as clarity & the fish look happy (colorful, moving & eating). I will be testing the water again in a few min. I have also added some seeded media to my tank last night. I think part of the problem may be my own stupidity! It just dawned on me this morning that I was cleaning the poop, ans other stuff from the tank with my "weekly" water change. Hummmm duhhhh.....I feel so dumb but I guess I should be getting the poop & extra out of the tank everyday. I don't know where my mind was at. I guess because I have never had to do that with Koi & other tropical fish.

[Mikemeets]

Yup im new to discus myself and have started storing water in a 50gallon storage plastic container with heater and airstone inside, works like a bomb, test your tap water for ammonia im sure thats where its comming from but the guys in forum say 0.25ppm ammonia gets found in tap water in some areas but i cant really comment but sounds like a water quality issue and upping your water change will help loads... tough doing it so much but its a must with these fish lol

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk

[nc0gnet0]

I am using an Aquartop AF-400 in my 75 gallon with a power head on 1 side & spray bar across the back. My first question regarding this is, should the spray bar to be pointed out into the water, upwards towards to top or down toward the bottom. I'm asking so that I will know which is best for aerating the tank. Or does this even matter?

Actually, to use it as a true spray bar, the bar should be above the waters surface and spraying horizontal. This is maximize the air induced into the tank. What the others have suggested will still work, it just wont induce quite as much air. As to the difference there are a lot of factors involved.

-Rick

[nc0gnet0]

When I cleaned out my filter today it was pretty gunked up and needed a good rinsing.


Today at work my daughter called and the fish just wasn't acting normal. Kind of turning on their sides (but not laying on the bottom or top) and then they would quickly right them selves. I had her do an ammonia test that was off the charts green (dark green)

These two are most likely related. How did you rinse your filter and with what?

[nc0gnet0]

ATI Prefilters:

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=21426

I take the small sponge filter off ( I then use it as a scrubby for tank wipe downs) and replace it with a Hydor IV replacement filter.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/replacement-sponge-hydro-iv-pro?sc=10&category=2716

ps your not changing enough water

[rickztahone]

You mentioned that you only got the cloudy water after you introduced the fish in to the tank, but the tank was cycled at that point. You do know that when you add new fish, the bio-load will increase. So, whatever that beneficial bacteria was able to handle before, it can no longer cope because it is much more ammonia that it was converting prior to the introduction of new fish.

Again, I have never done an ammonia start for a tank, but I would imagine that when you are doing that, you put enough ammonia to match the end-game stock level so that you do not go through these cycle problems.

The same thing will happen with the fish you are getting from Kenny if all you have in there is currently tetras. Please tell him to send you some seeded media, the last thing we would want is for dead auction discus on your hands.

[Snow]

Thanks everyone for all of the input. I did another water change today 40%. Like I said I was told to do a weekly water change when I purchased my fish. I will most certainly be doing it more often now! I don't mind doing it at all so it's not a problem for me.

I did go and find some sponge filter & modified it to fit my intake. I was surprised at how much stuff was collecting on it. So that's taken care of now.

I got a big container with wheels, an air pump & air stone to be able to age my water from now on....so that's done.

As far as what I rinsed my filter with....I usually use tank water to do it but I was afraid to with the ammonia in it being so high. So instead I rinsed all plastic pieces with warm water and all of my media & ect.... with water that I put some Seachem "Stability" & "Prime" in.

I am still showing no nitRITES & my PH has not changed. The Ammonia is still a little high (not like it was) but I want it to be 0!! I will recheck it in the morning and do another water change tomorrow if necessary.

The fish are eating, good in color, no clamped fins, no red gills or streaks anywhere & swimming around really well with no leaning.

If there is any thing else I should or should not be doing ......feel free to comment. That's what I'm here for..to learn.

[Snow]

You mentioned that you only got the cloudy water after you introduced the fish in to the tank, but the tank was cycled at that point. You do know that when you add new fish, the bio-load will increase. So, whatever that beneficial bacteria was able to handle before, it can no longer cope because it is much more ammonia that it was converting prior to the introduction of new fish.

Again, I have never done an ammonia start for a tank, but I would imagine that when you are doing that, you put enough ammonia to match the end-game stock level so that you do not go through these cycle problems.

The same thing will happen with the fish you are getting from Kenny if all you have in there is currently tetras. Please tell him to send you some seeded media, the last thing we would want is for dead auction discus on your hands.

Those fish (from Kenny) will be going into a tank that has been up & running for years. I will then transfer some to this tank ONLY after I get everything in good working order. I started with tetras in the new tank (after it cycled) to see how they did before adding Discus to it. I have since added Discus from Hans to the new tank and all my readings for my water was good until recently. I have also added some seeded media from my other tank last night.

[rickztahone]

Those fish (from Kenny) will be going into a tank that has been up & running for years. I will then transfer some to this tank ONLY after I get everything in good working order. I started with tetras in the new tank (after it cycled) to see how they did before adding Discus to it. I have since added Discus from Hans to the new tank and all my readings for my water was good until recently. I have also added some seeded media from my other tank last night.

Again, it doesn't matter if a tank has been running for 20yrs, if you add a very large bio-load to an established tank, your beneficial bacteria will not be able to cope with the sudden extra waste. You have to take steps in order to control this bio-load. One way, was to add a seeded media sponge like mentioned earlier.

[Snow]

Again, it doesn't matter if a tank has been running for 20yrs, if you add a very large bio-load to an established tank, your beneficial bacteria will not be able to cope with the sudden extra waste. You have to take steps in order to control this bio-load. One way, was to add a seeded media sponge like mentioned earlier.


Right ! Got it now.....it just didn't sink in at the time. I guess I will be seeing to that issue today then! I don't want to wait until the fish get here and have an issue.

Also, an update....My ammonia is back to near 0. So getting better and the cloudiness is clearing great. Nearly none. I don't know where my mind has been! But, everything you guy's have been telling "really" just all sunk in and made sense. Thank you for that. I now feel more knowledgeable about things BUT still have a lot to learn.

My son-in-law who is a marine biologist is coming this morning to check things for me & make sure it's all in order. He knows about tanks (worked at our local aquarium here) but is more into diving and tagging sharks. So, I do have a little help right here at home too.

[HeidinJohn]

For this situation, would using something like API Quick Start or Seachem Stability work for beefing up the beneficial bacteria to help with added bio load and white cloudy water?

[Snow]

Update: I have had no further issues thus far! My water is crystal clear (knock on wood)! I have been cleaning any leftover food & waste daily, water changes every other day (35 -40%).

As for the fish that went into my husbands tank.....I started treating it with prime & stability to be on the safe side before "Kenny's" fish arrived. All has been well and his water is still crystal clear and all water parameters check out good!

I did get the pre-sponge filters to go over my intakes.

[rickztahone]

Glad to hear. Have you received Kenny's fish yet? Always keep in mind that a clear looking tank, doesn't necessarily mean that everything is perfect. It is always good to check parameters daily if you can the first few days when you get your new discus (if you haven't got them that is).

[Snow]

I have gotten Kenny's fish in! They are beautiful (and that doesn't even describe them well enough). I kept 1/2 and put the other 1/2 of them in my husbands tank. I do check water every other day. 1 day I do his tank the next mine & so on. I have even started doing his water changes because he didn't realize that it needed to be done so often with the Discus. So I do his 1 day & mine the next. Sometimes mine get it everyday....just depends on whats going on.