Medicine Cabinet - What should you have on hand.

[Tankster]

I have to assume this question has been asked and answered but I can't find a thread on it. This would be a great "sticky" if there is already a thread on this subject.

I am a few weeks away from starting my grow out and want to make sure I am not scrambling should something go wrong over the next 8 to 10 months. I also believe in the long term, it would be good to have these things on hand.

I will be picking up 10-15, 3+" from Hans up in Baltimore and starting the grow out in a 40, transitioning to a 55, and if all goes well, a new 75 the wife does not know about yet. Once they have reached 5" - 6", I will be transferring them to a 240 gallon with PFS substrate, driftwood, and just a few, very few broad leafed plants. (keeping my head low as the BB crowd scares me)


I know I am starting with good stock from Hans but I want to be ready should I need to take action. Rather waiting 4 or 5 days for something to ship, or paying $50 for overnight service, I am thinking it would be good to have a medicine cabinet ready and stocked.

So my question to you, the experts, what should I have in my medicine cabinet?

[pcsb23]

There will be some smart alec answers that go along the lines of "clean water" - and in the main I'd agree (does that make me a smart alec too?). Many meds have a shelf life so you have to weigh up the cost of keeping meds that you hopefully will never use only to throw them away or worse still when you come to use them they are ineffective because they have expired.

Generally I have PP crystals on hand and chloramine-t. Antibiotics I get as and when needed, that way they are fresh. I get wormers as needed too. I will sometimes have F&MG on hand, but usually end up throwing it as it does lose it's potency once opened, btw never keep formalin products in a fridge in case you think it may prolong it - it won't - it will create a toxin called paraformaldehyde.

[John_Nicholson]

I am the smart arse in question...LOL. I feel that more fish have been killed with meds then with disease. If someone is serious about using meds then they need to take their least favorite fish and send it to a fish pathologist. They will tell you what the fish had and how to treat it. Most people guess at the disease, they guess wrong, and then they treat wrong, which just compounds the problem in many cases.

-john

[Tankster]

Thanks Paul,

No, not a smart alec, just emphasising the importance of this as it is, from what I have researched, the number one cause for problems... next to planted tanks (as they relate to juvenile fish). So yes, clean water will be my numero uno priority. I will be doing 100% daily changes with tap water that has been aged, aerated (I have Ph swing), dechlorinated and heated.

I am a bit of a newbie (total) so not sure what PP crystals are - potassium permanganate granules? (Google search) My search on F@MG came up with Malachite Green & Formalin.. correct?

I am in the states so access to meds should not be a big issue. I would assume since there is a limited shelf life on some meds, those most likely would not be carried by the big box stores. I will have to swing my my LFS and see what they keep on hand.

Thanks again for all you do here at Simply!!!


There will be some smart alec answers that go along the lines of "clean water" - and in the main I'd agree (does that make me a smart alec too?). Many meds have a shelf life so you have to weigh up the cost of keeping meds that you hopefully will never use only to throw them away or worse still when you come to use them they are ineffective because they have expired.

Generally I have PP crystals on hand and chloramine-t. Antibiotics I get as and when needed, that way they are fresh. I get wormers as needed too. I will sometimes have F&MG on hand, but usually end up throwing it as it does lose it's potency once opened, btw never keep formalin products in a fridge in case you think it may prolong it - it won't - it will create a toxin called paraformaldehyde.

[Tankster]

I was thinking of picking up a microscope but I like the "least favorite fish" idea too.


I am the smart arse in question...LOL. I feel that more fish have been killed with meds then with disease. If someone is serious about using meds then they need to take their least favorite fish and send it to a fish pathologist. They will tell you what the fish had and how to treat it. Most people guess at the disease, they guess wrong, and then they treat wrong, which just compounds the problem in many cases.

-john

[pcsb23]

Yes PP = potassium permanganate
F&MG = formalin and malachite green.

Microscopes are great - IF you spend the time and learn how to use them and are prepared to do some research into what you are looking at.

[pcsb23]

I am the smart arse in question...LOL. I feel that more fish have been killed with meds then with disease. If someone is serious about using meds then they need to take their least favorite fish and send it to a fish pathologist. They will tell you what the fish had and how to treat it. Most people guess at the disease, they guess wrong, and then they treat wrong, which just compounds the problem in many cases.

-john:evilgrin:

[Tankster]

Research is my middle name. I have been planning and researching this for, oh, going on a year now.:book::computer::gossip:


Microscopes are great - IF you spend the time and learn how to use them and are prepared to do some research into what you are looking at.

[Tankster]

Funny thing... I immediately thought of you when he said this.

I am the smart arse in question...LOL.

-john

[GeauxDiscus]

I am the smart arse in question...LOL. I feel that more fish have been killed with meds then with disease. If someone is serious about using meds then they need to take their least favorite fish and send it to a fish pathologist. They will tell you what the fish had and how to treat it. Most people guess at the disease, they guess wrong, and then they treat wrong, which just compounds the problem in many cases.

-john
So how do you find a fish pathologist around here? I've had two fish I've been struggling to keep healthy, and I'm getting tired of the quarantine routine. I'd like to know what I'm dealing with.

[John_Nicholson]

I do not know of any around here. The last time I used one it was the U of F. but you have to be a breeder. They will not do it for a hobbyist. I think there was one in North Carolina. Hopefully someone here can give you some direction.

-john

[Ardan]

Epsom salt comes in handy if the discus bloat up, stomach swelling.
Table salt can help if the nitrites are up.
Ardan

[nc0gnet0]

All these old timers and no one has touched on the most important tool of all.

First and foremost, you need to make sure you have a spare, unused QT tank. sounds simple enough, but amazingly, they always seem to end up already having fish in them already just when you need them most.

I keep more meds on hand than most, but what you keep on hand can be directly proportional to how many fish you have, and what you have available in your immediate area.

This is what I keep on hand:

PP
furan-2 ( it is significantly cheaper when purchased in bulk as opposed to the dinky packets at the lfs)
metro
kanamycin
levansol
acriflavin
meth blue


-Rick

[Tankster]

All these old timers and no one has touched on the most important tool of all.

First and foremost, you need to make sure you have a spare, unused QT tank. sounds simple enough, but amazingly, they always seem to end up already having fish in them already just when you need them most.

I keep more meds on hand than most, but what you keep on hand can be directly proportional to how many fish you have, and what you have available in your immediate area.

This is what I keep on hand:

PP
furan-2 ( it is significantly cheaper when purchased in bulk as opposed to the dinky packets at the lfs)
metro
kanamycin
levansol
acriflavin
meth blue


-Rick

Thanks for the info Rick,

Quick question for you. I will be visiting Hans up in Baltimore and will come home with ten 3+ inch and start the grow out in a 40. Should I be prepared with a QT even though I am getting all of my fish from the same source at the same time? Maybe a silly question but for some reason I was thinking since I am getting all of my fish from the same source at the same time, if I have any issues, I would need to treat the whole tank rather than just one fish. I have the tanks on hand for QT but am questioning my thought process at this point.

[nc0gnet0]

If you take 10 fish from the same source and drop them into any tank collectively, but with no other fish, this is still considered QT in my book. Just be careful not to cross contaminate from your other tanks when doing water changes.

As a matter of fact, for any first timers about to purchase discus, this is the perfect way to get started.

FWIW, in my experience, when Asian and German fish are mixed together, it is almost always (actually always for me) the German fish that get sick. It's usually temporary, and they do recover relatively quickly, but it is something to watch when/if you decide to mix them with your existing stock. I am not trying to open a can of worms with the "which one is healthier" debate, but I do think in general terms, Asian fish have been subjected to a few pathogens that German fish have not.

[Tankster]

Great to know as my next purchase, after I get me feet wet with the German stock, will be from Kenny. I'll have a separate QT grow out for those.


Here is the tank :)

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/08/09/ehu7udep.jpg

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[eaglesfan3000]

I have noticed that as well, I thought it was just me.

[GeauxDiscus]

If you take 10 fish from the same source and drop them into any tank collectively, but with no other fish, this is still considered QT in my book. Just be careful not to cross contaminate from your other tanks when doing water changes.

As a matter of fact, for any first timers about to purchase discus, this is the perfect way to get started.

FWIW, in my experience, when Asian and German fish are mixed together, it is almost always (actually always for me) the German fish that get sick. It's usually temporary, and they do recover relatively quickly, but it is something to watch when/if you decide to mix them with your existing stock. I am not trying to open a can of worms with the "which one is healthier" debate, but I do think in general terms, Asian fish have been subjected to a few pathogens that German fish have not.

+1

[musicmarn1]

I Loved Paul's answer to this, had specifics, i have done changes of 60%daily and still got fish sick (sponsor bought, not a dud in the house, but a rank noob in the houes)

but i do have to say i learned at NADA that the VERYnext time i have an illness im not sure the cause of, i will 100% send my weakest looking fish to the university THEYnot i will look at the microscope

Id like to see two things at the next NADA for my learning, ok three

1/. prices raised, this costs money to do and i intend to bring a fish ive raised for at least several months if i cant do it from scratch it will at least have months of my effort in there and ill be proud just to ENTER, i see the marine convention in Denver, charges a lot more, to cover the costs

2/. URJoey speaking about filtration, plumbing and DIY knowhow, not speaking a WORKSHOP, ill pay $150 for the ticket to go to that a hands on worshop with pvc and a tank, yes sir. thats the money for me because i can save so much doing some of this myself, he knows and can teach, not preach (huge difference between a speaker and a teacher, Paul was an awesome teacher btw i thought imho) things like how to calculate filtration for how much you feed and he knows his healthy discus.

3/. Medications, for real, down and dirty when you screwed up and you need to get your meds on, a practical not so much academic, how to diagnose and treat those illnesses you cause. YES clean water is Godly, there is no but.

water changes are Godly with discus. There are however, ways to use and treat and diagnose and this workshop should make it EASY, every person should go home with a box marked university to send their next sickly fish in it. if you wait till they are dead people, you waited too long BACTERIA multiply the moment death occurs obliterating a lot of evidence. send a live fish and save the next few years of learning.

ooh man that feels good to say, i have the urge to raise an NADA in Denver but id need a group and i tend to be the chick that flies solo :)



I am the smart arse in question...LOL. I feel that more fish have been killed with meds then with disease. If someone is serious about using meds then they need to take their least favorite fish and send it to a fish pathologist. They will tell you what the fish had and how to treat it. Most people guess at the disease, they guess wrong, and then they treat wrong, which just compounds the problem in many cases.

-john

[khooyang]

I think it is handy to have all med. ready for discus. I am staying in Australia and find hard to get most med. that's available in US. So, plan to get all the meds. online. Do you guys know any good site that sells meds. like: Furan-2, Kanamycin, Levamissol, acriflavin and meth blue? Thanks a lot.

[GeauxDiscus]

Does anyone know what's going on with Maracyn 2 right now? You can't get it anywhere that I can find. It's like either there's some nationwide shortage or some government entity said it can't be sold anymore. Anyone know?

[seanyuki]

You can get Maracyn Two from the sponsor here at kenfish.com

http://www.kensfish.com/aquarium-supplies/fish-medication/mardel-fw-maracyn-two-powder-24pack.html

minocycline belong to the same class of antibiotic group called tetracycline .




Does anyone know what's going on with Maracyn 2 right now? You can't get it anywhere that I can find. It's like either there's some nationwide shortage or some government entity said it can't be sold anymore. Anyone know?

[GeauxDiscus]

Check the link again. It clearly says "Out of stock", just like all of the other sellers I've seen lately. Something strange is afoot...

[oliverk]

All these old timers and no one has touched on the most important tool of all.

First and foremost, you need to make sure you have a spare, unused QT tank. sounds simple enough, but amazingly, they always seem to end up already having fish in them already just when you need them most.

I keep more meds on hand than most, but what you keep on hand can be directly proportional to how many fish you have, and what you have available in your immediate area.

This is what I keep on hand:

PP
furan-2 ( it is significantly cheaper when purchased in bulk as opposed to the dinky packets at the lfs)
metro
kanamycin
levansol
acriflavin
meth blue


-Rick

found this information really useful, (I am like the original poster setting up new and ....) your list when I did further research kept running into this article, which organizes your list of medicine cabinent items by type, discusses uses and myths, occasionally often has names of products containing the specified stuff and occasionally distinguishes between manufacturers saying some better or easier to use etc.(I think independently written by a broker of meds) Also discusses shelf life dates and etc.

BTW I found the article useful but bought several things on ebay so am not pushing the website or its products. Thanks for the post, and if you have any comments on this article http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html I'd love to hear them!

[Tankster]

found this information really useful, (I am like the original poster setting up new and ....) your list when I did further research kept running into this article, which organizes your list of medicine cabinent items by type, discusses uses and myths, occasionally often has names of products containing the specified stuff and occasionally distinguishes between manufacturers saying some better or easier to use etc.(I think independently written by a broker of meds) Also discusses shelf life dates and etc.

BTW I found the article useful but bought several things on ebay so am not pushing the website or its products. Thanks for the post, and if you have any comments on this article http://www.americanaquariumproducts.com/Aquarium_Medication.html I'd love to hear them!

Thank you Oliverk - very helpful.


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