Setting up my first Discus tank, what do you think?

[Jason F]

I'm 32 and have had at least one tank since I was very young with the exception of the first 8 years I was in the Navy. I've always had an Angelfish/community tank and/or Oscars and Jack Dempseys, even had a Jardini Arowana right before I joined. I've been interested in Discus since my early teens but have never attempted them. I currently have a 36g bow front Angel community tank and a 29g which was going to be used for what I thought were paired Angels, turns out I have two females who are laying without a male fertilizing, one male who all I can guess is stuck in the "friend zone" with the females, and another I think male who doesn't get along with anyone. So now I'm not 100% sure what's going on with the 29g other than housing my onry Angel and a couple corries, but that's not the tank I came here to talk about. Recently I found a 75g on craigslist and got the green light from my fiancee to go ahead with my first Discus tank, I'm still not sure she's aware of what she agreed to yet. lol

So here is my setup so far:
For substrate I have 100 lbs of pool filter sand. I'm not expecting to use the entire amount which is ok since I'm redoing the 36g's substrate so I'll use any left there. I want to keep it simple with a few Amazon Swords and some drift wood. The tank itself is wood trimed however I will be painting the trim and back panel black this weekend. For heating I have an Aqueon 300 watt heater which is paired with a Finnex Max-300 controller. For filtration so far I have a Aqua Clear 110. I do have a sponge filter with a Whisper 60 air pump and battery backup air pump on order right now. Usually I wouldn't be too worried about power outages where we live but we've had two in the last year that lasted 8 hours and close to a day. As of right now my lighting is just the florescent the tank came with however I'm hoping to upgrade to a Finnex Ray 2 and possibly a Finnex Monster Ray, depends on a buyer this weekend for a radio I'm selling. I also bought a RO/DI system recently and plan to use only water from it for my tanks from now on. I know it may not be a necessity but after cleaning the filters on our Berkey water filter recently and seeing the sludge that it trapped I don't want that stuff in my tanks.
My big question right now is will this filtration be adequate for my setup or should I add additional filtration? I've been tossing around the idea of another Aqua Clear or a Fluval 306 but I'm not sure if it will be needed. I want to have a few corries for clean up and a school of Rummy Nose Tetras and either Neons or Cardinals, haven't decided, along with 6 or 7 Discus. I'm of course not going to dump all these fish in at once but gradually build up to this load. Should I look for extra filtration or should I be ok?

[John_Nicholson]

How big are the discus that you are buying? Unless you plan on buying adults I would not go with your plan. If you think your filter had a lot of undesirable stuff on it you should see what your substrate holds. If you are in the U.S. there are very few places where you need an RO unless you are trying to breed. How much water are you planning on changing?

-john

[ericNH]

Recently I found a 75g on craigslist and got the green light from my fiancee to go ahead with my first Discus tank, I'm still not sure she's aware of what she agreed to yet. lol ?

Awesome! I got my tank and Craigslist too. Don't overpay. I think I might have, a little.


For filtration so far I have a Aqua Clear 110. I do have a sponge filter with a Whisper 60 air pump and battery backup air pump on order right now. I also bought a RO/DI system recently and plan to use only water from it for my tanks from now on.

I would feel more comfortable with more filtration, personally. The benchmark I've heard tossed around most is that yoiu should shoot for 10x total tank volume flowing through your filters per hour. But this is not as important, perhaps, as setting up water changes. I would recommend developing a water change routine that is fairly easy, that allows you to do 50% (or more) water changes every day. If it's a pain then you won't want to do it, and your discus will likely suffer.


I want to have a few corries for clean up and a school of Rummy Nose Tetras and either Neons or Cardinals, haven't decided, along with 6 or 7 Discus. Should I look for extra filtration or should I be ok?

I would leave the cardinals/rummies out until the discus are fully, happily established. And if I could do it over I would have started with adult discus from one of the sponsors or veterans here on SD. Just some thoughts.

I'm a newb and I'm parroting advice given to me with my somewhat-planted tank, so take this post with a grain of salt. I've lost/stunted discus along the way due to inexperience. For me, the most important change I made based on the advice I got here was to change alot of water, because you need to feed your growing discus alot. Good luck! If your discus make you as happy as mine are making me, then you will be really glad you took the plunge into discus keeping!

[ericNH]

And I wanted to add: DO get all your discus at one time if you can - I went through bullying hell in my tank not doing it that way.

[ericNH]

And another thing. From all I've read here on SD I gather that John is one of the Great Discus Masters here. Do whatever he tells you, and don't argue or show any American sass. He's a little like Pai Mei in Kill Bill - he'll teach you to become a master but he'll whack any stupidity out of you with his stick.

[Jason F]

How big are the discus that you are buying? Unless you plan on buying adults I would not go with your plan.

Why is this?

[mojosodope]

Why is this?


It's best to grow out in a bare bottom tank as it's easier maintenance and less waste build up. You'd be surprised how much waste the PFS accumulates and you'd have to siphon constantly.

[Jason F]

You'd be surprised how much waste the PFS accumulates

???

[John_Nicholson]

Raising young discus requires clean water and a high protein food. You also need to overfeed. Doing these things leads to lots of waste. The only real way to combat this it through large daily water changes. That is much, much easier in a bare bottom tank. You can raise young fish in a planted tank but your margin of error is much. much smaller. The vast majority of people that try end up with either stunted of dead discus. You have to set your goals. Do you want small crappy fish or do you want your best chances of raising large healthy fish? Like I said it can be done in a planted tank but your chances of success is much lower. When other people start chiming in remember that most have never seen a discus that has reached its full potential. One of the main reasons that we have the NADA shows is to show the world what a really nice discus really looks like. The difference between ok fish and really nice fish can sometimes be hard to tell in a picture ( depending on how good the photographer is ) but in person is undeniable.

-john

[mojosodope]

???

Pool filter sand

[Crooks]

How is keeping the discus in a planted tank stunting them?

[OC Discus]

Jason,

I would agree with the posts above. I started with gravel, then switched to sand, then removed the sand. I only have 2 large artificial stumps in my bare bottom tank and a colorful background. With this setup I can remove almost 100% of the harmful stuff (decaying food, waste, parasites, bacteria, etc.) that can settle and become encrusted even in sand as it breaks down from the tank with each water change. The required regimen will be determined somewhat by the size and age of fish you start with. Now that I've gotten accustomed to pristine water and healthy fish, I don't think I'll ever go back to a substrate. That's my preference because of weeks battling disease and parasites before attaining a tank that stays clean and healthy. Others will have a different opinion on substrate and plants. Some have learned by experience to maintain both. But my experience is the learning curve and work required to raise discus with plants or substrate is very high. And the cost can be very high in medications, test kits, fertilizers.

Discus are very hardy fish if they have a couple of basic things: 1) Pristine water, 2) Good food, 3) Not being exposed to the diseases that other species carry, but are immune to. Most discus have not been raised in community systems exposed to all kinds of parasites, viruses, bacteria, and other diseases. Every step beyond the bare bottom tank with clean water increases the chances of sickness and disease:

1) Substrates are a breeding ground for it
2) Other strains of fish are carriers of diseases
3) Plants and decorations can harbor toxins harmful to the fish
4) Chemicals and medications can be harmful

A few other ideas:
1) Discus have large eyes and don't require bright light
2) Various types of filtration combined has worked for me- 2 Hang on filters, 1 canister, 1 airstone
3) Purigen is a product that can help remove ammonia and nitrite from the water between water changes. It is not a chemical you put in the water, it actually removes toxic chemicals from the water. I've seen amazing results keeping the water pristine by using this in my canister filter, along with a micron filter.

I agree with John that daily water changes are best for discus of all ages, especially juveniles. As they get older, or if for any reason you are not doing daily water changes, you want a good filtration system to keep your water from deteriorating. You want to have test kits for ammonia, nitrite and nitrate at a minimum. The ammonia and nitrite should never be allowed to stay above 0. If nitrate approaches 20 it is time for a large water change. It should stay around 10 or less.

Best of luck. Enjoy the ride.


I'm 32 and have had at least one tank since I was very young with the exception of the first 8 years I was in the Navy. I've always had an Angelfish/community tank and/or Oscars and Jack Dempseys, even had a Jardini Arowana right before I joined. I've been interested in Discus since my early teens but have never attempted them. I currently have a 36g bow front Angel community tank and a 29g which was going to be used for what I thought were paired Angels, turns out I have two females who are laying without a male fertilizing, one male who all I can guess is stuck in the "friend zone" with the females, and another I think male who doesn't get along with anyone. So now I'm not 100% sure what's going on with the 29g other than housing my onry Angel and a couple corries, but that's not the tank I came here to talk about. Recently I found a 75g on craigslist and got the green light from my fiancee to go ahead with my first Discus tank, I'm still not sure she's aware of what she agreed to yet. lol

So here is my setup so far:
For substrate I have 100 lbs of pool filter sand. I'm not expecting to use the entire amount which is ok since I'm redoing the 36g's substrate so I'll use any left there. I want to keep it simple with a few Amazon Swords and some drift wood. The tank itself is wood trimed however I will be painting the trim and back panel black this weekend. For heating I have an Aqueon 300 watt heater which is paired with a Finnex Max-300 controller. For filtration so far I have a Aqua Clear 110. I do have a sponge filter with a Whisper 60 air pump and battery backup air pump on order right now. Usually I wouldn't be too worried about power outages where we live but we've had two in the last year that lasted 8 hours and close to a day. As of right now my lighting is just the florescent the tank came with however I'm hoping to upgrade to a Finnex Ray 2 and possibly a Finnex Monster Ray, depends on a buyer this weekend for a radio I'm selling. I also bought a RO/DI system recently and plan to use only water from it for my tanks from now on. I know it may not be a necessity but after cleaning the filters on our Berkey water filter recently and seeing the sludge that it trapped I don't want that stuff in my tanks.
My big question right now is will this filtration be adequate for my setup or should I add additional filtration? I've been tossing around the idea of another Aqua Clear or a Fluval 306 but I'm not sure if it will be needed. I want to have a few corries for clean up and a school of Rummy Nose Tetras and either Neons or Cardinals, haven't decided, along with 6 or 7 Discus. I'm of course not going to dump all these fish in at once but gradually build up to this load. Should I look for extra filtration or should I be ok?

[OC Discus]

What usually happens is new discus keepers add plants to absorb waste and cut down on maintenance. Over time, excess waste accumulates on and below the substrate. It is nearly impossible to vacuum under the roots of plants. As the months go by, water quality can decline gradually. Unhealthy bacteria and diseases can also breed and hide in the substrate. The discus are stunted because of the poor water quality that is often found in planted tanks.

There is a huge thread titled: "The forum's position on keeping discus in planted tanks". You should read that if you are wondering. You can copy and paste that title into the search bar and pull it up. Almost everything that can be said on the subject was said in that article.
Discus can be kept in planted tanks, but it is better done by advanced fish keepers who are skilled at plant care as well as discus care. Most beginners who start out keeping discus in planted tanks wind up with sick, stunted, or dead fish for the reasons stated above. Not that it can't be done, most just don't do it right the first time.

I don't want to re-open the argument here about planted tanks, but refer you to that thread.


How is keeping the discus in a planted tank stunting them?

[John_Nicholson]

How is keeping the discus in a planted tank stunting them?

No way to keep your water clean. Contrary to what some people will claim the plants will more of a hinderance then a help in keeping the water clean.

-john

[DLFL]

No way to keep your water clean. Contrary to what some people will claim the plants will more of a hinderance then a help in keeping the water clean.

-john

I have a few plants with a sand bottom and rocks and I admit after cleaning the tank and refilling it there is always more waste in the tank than when I was growing out in a bare bottom tank and cleaning and refilling it.

[adapted]

I have compromised by having a VERY thin layer of sand (less than half an inch) that is siphoned and stirred twice a day. I usually end up removing 40 gallons from a 120 gallon tank each time I do the sand cleanup, so it's a pretty thorough debris removal.

(The consensus seems to be that wild discus prefer a sand substrate over bare bottom, but I am going to see for myself since I have no been replacing sand that gets removed and before long the sand is going to be entirely gone.)

[edsye]

The problem with plants is not the plants themselves, but the difficulty in having both the plants and the fish thriving at the same time. Plants are work, not just something you throw in...dying plants affect water quality.