Angelfish grow-outs

[Ryan]

I've had a long history with angels. They were the first fish I ever kept when my parents bought me a 10 gallon tank at 5 years old, and the first fish I successfully spawned and raised when I was 12. Over the years I've churned out thousands of them, then I burn out and work with something else for a while. Still, I almost always have one or two floating around the house. They go with virtually everything. I've kept them in 55 gallon tanks with small community fish and 200+ gallon tanks with large SA cichlids.

At the end of July I ordered an assortment from Lee Gordon @ Angelmania. They were advertised as dime-sized but most actually came in slightly smaller than that. I got three varieties -- blue marbles, pinoy paraiba (that I've wanted to work with for about six years), and some 50% wild Brazilian crosses. Here are some videos I took after I'd had them less than a week:

July 22, 2014


http://youtu.be/oIh4bbljCGk

[Ryan]

July 22, 2014


http://youtu.be/0pJuWLduJgM

[Ryan]

For those who've never seen them, pinoy paraibas are a dark colored angel, usually gray or black, with large patches of shiny blue-green iridescence on them. It takes time for the iridescence to develop. They are basically black blushing angelfish but they include a Philippine Blue gene. These were originally created by Kenneth Kennedy who isolated the blue gene and started breeding it into several angel strains. For those that were around then, you may remember that it caused an uproar in the angel community because people believed his pictures were Photoshopped and there were a lot of people claiming that there was no such thing as a blue gene. Now, several years later, they are still the hot ticket in the angel world and the blue gene has been bred into every variety of angel. The sheen is subtle in pictures but beautiful in person, especially under natural light.

Pinoy paraibas, because of their beauty, are in high demand, and therefore hard to get your hands on. I rarely see them offered. I jumped at the chance for these. As you'll see in my pictures later, the iridescent sheen is starting to come in. These are going to be very handsome fish.

The fish that have surprised me, though, are the wild crosses. They are very close to breed standard in terms of shape and finnage. They are turning into gorgeous fish. A couple are developing dark red spots on their backs (you can see it in a few pictures). I have decided to order several more of these because they'll make great crosses. The fish contain 50% wild Brazilian blood and also carry a stripeless gene, making them ghosts (hence the lack of full, dark vertical bars like silvers).

The blue marbles are wide-fin and they were the smallest of the fish I got. They were just over pea-sized when I received them. They are still the smallest and have awkward shapes right now, but I attribute that to the fact that their fins are shorter and stumpier, and it gives them the appearance of having a giant body and tiny fins. I'm sure they'll grow into them as they get older.

[Ryan]

August 13, 2014

Here we are about a month after I received them. At this point they're probably 10 - 12 weeks old and quarter sized.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0068_zpsdaa7e992.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0072_zpscc145154.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0074_zps38db2151.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0076_zpsb8b0bbf4.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0077_zpsc96a8a6d.jpg

[Ryan]

September 7, 2014

This brings us up to today. I was out of town for about seven days and left my mom in charge of a single daily feeding. They probably would look better if I'd been here for their regular feedings and water changes, but they're not too shabby, all things considered. Hopefully they'll be back on track now with the increased feeding.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0625_zpsb02362d2.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0603a_zps4fc4e024.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0621_zpse4b4429f.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0628_zps26533eea.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0648_zps02b7df52.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0623_zps964a420f.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0661_zps077c6851.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great Ryan and grew a lot. The wild crosses are my favorites that is probably not a surprise. :o What are you feeding them?

[Ryan]

Blackworm flake, FDBW, NLS Grow pellets, and occasionally frozen bloodworms. They're not too picky, but surprisingly they'd rather have flake than FDBW or bloodworms.

They only get two water changes a week, about 90% each time. There are only 14 of them in a 55. I'm hoping to eventually upgrade them to a 125 or 150 because the angels seem to grow better in larger tanks, IMO.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Ryan, the darn little altums are showing a strong preference for Al's FDBWs. Thanks for the heads up on larger tanks. I sort of suspected that.

[Ryan]

^ Even moreso with altums. They grow much larger than scalare.

[Second Hand Pat]

^ Even moreso with altums. They grow much larger than scalare.

I believe that with all that fin they carry. :D Larger tank is no problem. There is a 180 calling my name in the near future.:D

[pcsb23]

Looking good Ryan, agree about tank size, particularly height!

[John_Nicholson]

Looking good. Like you I have had angels off and on through the years. I pulled a few hundred fry from my koi pair this weekend. When you get yours up to size and start raising a few please let me know. I might want to pick up a few.

-john

[Ryan]

^ Will do. I think I turned Al on to angels several years ago, and now Pat's been bitten by the angel bug, too. I won't rest until everyone admits that angels are great. :p But really, they're so forgiving compared to discus and they really can be very attractive as adult fish, so it's a no-brainer for me. I enjoy having them around.

[Second Hand Pat]

Yea, it's all Ryan's fault, :evilgrin:

[rickztahone]

You can already see faint red color on the anal and dorsal fins! Very nice. Great looking babies :)

[Ryan]

Thanks, Ricardo. So far I'm really happy with them. Angels don't look like much at pea to dime size, but once they hit quarter+ you can really see the potential start to shine through.

I moved them into a 150 tonight for grow-out. I forgot how heavy that tank was!

[decoy50]

Looking great Ryan! I just can't seem to not have an angel tank. I kept wild Peruvian about a year ago & swore I'd never keep domestics again after I kept wilds. I like everything about them - the way their color & irridesence slowly came around as they settled in to their fiesty & territotorial nature. They seemed so much more alive & interactive than domestics. In March I got some F1 Brazilians from Bill @ Inland Empire at quarter size & I'm having a really good time growing them out - just as fiesty as wilds! One mistake I made was too much current in their tank. I had a AC110 HOB on their standard 90gal and thought it would be fine, but it caused a couple bent dorsals that I'm kicking myself over. Glad to see you back as active on Simply & MFK as you have been lately!

[Ardan]

Ryan, I really like those wild crosses. I bet you will have some real beauties when they are grown.

Ardan

[Ryan]

October 4, 2014

I moved the whole group into a 150 gallon grow-out. The trouble is that it has a black background which make point-and-shoot pictures nearly impossible, especially with the light coming in the window directly across from the tank.

The growth has slowed down a bit, at least in my eyes, but they are still turning out nice considering I've only had them about 2 1/2 months. I know a few of the pictures are blurry but I wanted to show off the teal iridescence that is developing on the pinoy paraibas.

The blue marbles are the smallest fish in the batch but they were also the smallest when I got them, about pea-sized.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0663_zpsf3cb0df1.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0674_zpse2905b5a.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0724_zps249f7753.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0738_zps9f1ce0a9.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0732_zps38e1ad04.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0725_zps171d51b5.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0705_zps6403ffab.jpg

[pcsb23]

Looking good Ryan, beginning to see good colour :)

[Ryan]

I'm not so thrilled with the size or the speed of growth on the blue marbles. I read that some of the blue lines are slow growing. That's disappointing because their color is actually really intense blue with black markings. They are beautiful, just small and awkwardly shaped. I am probably going to ditch them.

On the other hand, the wild crosses and the pinoys continue to impress me. They are about 4 - 5" high now, a little taller than a Hydro V sponge. If they were 5 weeks old when I got them at less than dime size, I'm estimating them to be about 4 months old. I think the size is good for 4 months old, considering I see a lot of breeders selling much smaller angels as "pre-breeders."

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/SAM_0776_zpsef8b94c4.jpg

I don't know if it's possible (I need to play with the genetics calculator) but I think the pinoy paraibas have a streaked gene. I notice lighter colored streaks on them. You can see it on the dark fish above.

[Bud Smith]

Ryan - you have some nice angels - I like the pinoys and they have a nice shape. Good Job

[tacks]

Ryan can you tell me were you got the angel thanks Ed

[Ryan]

Ed, they came from Angelmania. I got a second batch of fish from them and I was less impressed. I actually would not order from them again. People can PM me if they want to know more.

[Ardan]

Nice Job with them Ryan! They are really nice!

Ardan

[Ryan]

Unfortunately the larger angels seem to have stalled in growth. Lately there has been a dramatic uptick in aggressiveness, to the point that some of my fish are shredded. The wild crosses don't have a mark on them, but all of the pinoy paraibas have tons of bite marks on the fins and bodies. Then this afternoon I walked in and found this:

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j49/ryansmith83/IMG_6521_zpsqdggm8qk.jpg

It explains the recent attitude problems. What I'm seeing now is just how brutal wild or wild cross fish really are. I've had experience with aggressive wild angels before but I didn't realize the crosses would be just as nasty. These fish are in a 150 gallon tank and the female has claimed more than 50% of it to herself. She's guarding about a 4' section of a 6' tank, and all the other angels are piled into the opposite end. I may have to stick in some vertical driftwood or tall potted silk plants to break up her line of sight and give her tankmates a rest.

[Ardan]

. She's guarding about a 4' section of a 6' tank, and all the other angels are piled into the opposite end:shocked2:
WOW
So did you figure out a solution? That is one territorial angelfish! Talk about guarding.... did the eggs hatch? If so, is she even worse tempered?

[Ryan]

The best solution was to scrape off the eggs. ;) I don't really want to spawn them yet since they're a little less than a year old. I'd rather they put on a bit more size than spend all the energy spawning.