Need suggestions on substrate for plants

[a.person61]

Hey guys,
Today I went out to order some plant substrate and the person that's been helping me set up my tank needed more info on what type. The stuff they sell is as small as sand and is hard to clean which is no good for discus. So I was wondering what plant substrate is good for plants and discus and is pea size. I don't mind if it changes the pH as long as it's not below 6.
Living in a country town in Australia it's hard to get certain things in. If I can't get the substrate in would anyone be willing to ship it over to me? I'll pay for the dirt and postage.
Thanks!-Austin

[kris2341]

sand is actually good, but it needs to be FINE sand in which nothing can really settle in, then you can just hover a siphon over it.

anything pea sized is awful for discus by design.

[a.person61]

Ok thanks for the fast response! With the aquascape I'm going for I'm not going to need sand. Would maybe your average gravel size (about 10mm long but flat) be ok?

[kris2341]

the problem with gravel, you are guaranteed gaps in which food and detritus will get stuck, unless you are extremely certain you can get ALL of that out (probably will have to stir up that gravel layer completely every time you do a water change, too tedious IMO)

Is it possible to do? yes, anything is with enough money, time, and effort.

Is it feasible? the way i see it, no.

In the end, it is your stuff and fish, so if you are trying to go for a gravel bed look with a planted tank for discus, you will need to make quite a few provisions to maintain their health. I am just letting you know that if you approach this without planning for everything, you will probably have to scrap the idea or the discus in the future.

[a.person61]

Ok I found some stuff on the Web it's about 4 mm to 8 mm is that size ok I'm only new to discus and planted tanks so idk what's good and bad. I'm going to try and carpet the tank with pigmy chain. Please don't tell me I should start in a bare bottom or the plants are hard to keep. I'll get use to the plants befor adding discus and tank will cycle for 6 months

[kris2341]

Its not really about cycling or anything so basic as that, it is about maintaining the water quality standards required for discus to be healthy. This goes beyond simply having low nitrates and more into keeping dissolved organics low, keeping the water from building up hazardous material that cannot be processed out, and eliminating all possible footholds for harmful pathogens to grow and multiply. This is most easily done in a barebottom tank, which is why this is the most recommended discus setup.

You seem to be about as new as it can get as far as plants and discus go then, if you are so determined to have a heavily planted tank with large gravel, you will be better off keeping a species of fish that is less of a hassle to keep but is overall compatible with discus. I recommend a large group of cardinal tetras and do your best (I really mean your BEST) to maintain the aquascape while keeping the water in pristine condition. Then when everything seems solid and you are ready, get 5+ adult 5 inch+ discus and quarantine them following proper procedure to make sure the tetras and discus are safe to mix.

Since you are the aquarist, all this is your call with your wallet and livestock on the line. It is your decision in the end as far as whether or not you think you are ready, we can only offer advice.


I definitely do not recommend what you want to do, but it is not like I can stop you so I am simply presenting the guidelines and the risks associated with what you are trying to do. It is well known that discus kept in a gravel based planted tank are more prone to getting sick simply due to the near impossibility of keeping the gravel substrate clean. This is why people use sand, either as the whole substrate base, or as a covering for something more suited for plants.

In the end, the goal is simple. Give your discus pristine water of the proper parameters and that is free of harmful impurities. Simple, but difficult. If the discus get sick, it usually means this one guideline has not been met. If you do choose to continue down your path, i wish you luck, and will offer what little advice as I can.

[a.person61]

The only thing that's making me worried about the finer things such as sand is that it forms pockets and when those pockets burst bubbles of harmful junk is let out in the water. I've decided I'm getting a substrate for plants but need some advise on the best stuff to get. Atm I'm starting to get driven away form discus mainly because 1 guy tells me 1 thing and another guys says that's a bad idea.

[kris2341]

When it comes down to it, you could very well just ignore any advice given and just dive in, but what I am trying to do is guide you to a path where you wont have to take a high risk and wind up throwing away your money for nothing. Do you really want to gamble like that?

And what exactly do you want for a substrate? you said you wanted gravel, gravel is gravel, period. For plants you would be somewhat served by providing a laterite substrate but that stuff is sharp and you usually would want to cover it with something, simple river stone gravel like from a quarry works to cover it but is a dirt sponge that is hard to clean.

Some of the best planted tank substrate would be ADA Aquasoil but that is not actually gravel at that point, it is hardened clay that is actually very soft in water and can turn to mush if you mess with it too much, it is naturally something you would not want to use with juvenile discus at best because cleaning it constantly will ruin the substrate. Since it cannot be cleaned constantly, special care needs to be made to even take care of robust adult discus while using it. Usually this is done by daily water changes.

If you want carpeting plants, you would want something like ADA Aquasoil, it is the best for that, but it would take a master aquascaper who is very well versed in discus to pull off using it in a discus tank... I do not know the requirements of micro swords but if they need a solid substrate, you will need a real soil based substrate that isnt conducive to cleaning. If they are a hardy plant that can grow anywhere, a laterite base with gravel or sand topped on it with root tabs MIGHT suffice.

I say might because despite having a planted tank, I know little of the requirements of plants I do not have.

And finally, the gas bubble issue you are talking about is the build up of Hydrogen Sulfide gas that occurs under anaerobic conditions. Simply put, if you plan to keep discus properly, the conditions required to form this simply will NOT occur if you are doing proper tank maintenance. Hydrogen Sulfide poisoning is also such an exceedingly rare problem in decent aquaria that almost no one really sees it.

Of course if you have a 3 inch deep sand bed that was never ever cleaned for about a year with TONS of detritus under the surface somehow, it MIGHT produce enough of the gas to harm the tank, but if you let your tanks slide that far, you need to just give it to someone who will actually care for it properly. Simple as that.

[a.person61]

I would like a ferderlized substarte but nothing special. I found one on the Web and it's as fine as normal soil. How would that do? The plant I wish to carpet is very hardy and grows quick.

[kris2341]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bT25O2hqa80

that is how you properly plant small foreground plants, you can use a fine sand/soil substrate and it will root into it in time. If the plant floats off, you simply didnt plant it properly or it does not have enough roots to keep it down. You probably wont be able to have a truly solid carpet without some kind of soil based substrate.

[a.person61]

Looks like a soil based sub is the I'm guessing that when siphoning I just put the thing over the plants?

[otpi]

The only thing that's making me worried about the finer things such as sand is that it forms pockets and when those pockets burst bubbles of harmful junk is let out in the water. I've decided I'm getting a substrate for plants but need some advise on the best stuff to get. Atm I'm starting to get driven away form discus mainly because 1 guy tells me 1 thing and another guys says that's a bad idea.

This is just silly superstition. No such thing will happen. If it did you would see massive fish death in all fresh water lakes on regular basis. If you are still afraid, just keep the sand layer thin, i.e. about 1 inch.

It really is the best easiest substrate to clean.

/otpi
yes! I have sand i my aquarium.

[a.person61]

Re insuring, but I'm not going sand as it will be coverd in pigmy chain. Idk what to be leave anymore so I'll go with something like thishttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/12/09/08b8d8b99f10860127e3d0d945f2d1af.jpg it's quiet fine about 1 or 2 mm a granite. now how would I add nutrients to gravel without needing to use those pills?

[bluelagoon]

How big is the tank and how big are the discus going in the tank?I'm thinking adults,right!!!My thinking is any discus under 5" is less than a year old and shouldn't be kept in a planted tank.But this has been mentioned on here hundreds of times,but seems to go in one ear and out the other.To be honest the pic does not look like a discus tank and I can't even see it all.By the way don't use ferts with young discus.

[a.person61]

Discus will be adults tank is 6 foot, this is a pic of my danio tank

[Piraya]

I have tropica substrate!!! relly good for plants!!!

http://tropica.com/en/plant-care/aquarium-soil/aquarium-soil/