discus and lighting ?

[candymancan]

Question for you guys. I was wondering.. My discus during the day are usually all over my tank but mostly in the back of the tank.. My 2 sunset orange discus are all over.. front back whatever.. So is my Leopard snakeskin.. but my Blue snakeskin and one of my blue turquoise always sit in one spot in the tank.. One hides under the rock cave in the complete blackness.. the other is usually by the heater all the time in the corner..

If I shut the lights off and keep just a 13 inch T8 in the back corner of my tank so its very dark but still dim in the tank.. Then they all come out.. they school together and are always in the front of the tank away from the 13 inch t8 in the back... Its like my discus don't like light at all..

When I feed them.. they come out and eat.. They don't like anything but freeze dried blood worms.. Ive tried 4 different types of foods so I mix the freeze dried bloodworms with tetramin flakes for my neons. Once the feeding is done they go back to what they were doing.. 1 hides 24/7 under the dark rock cave,, the other goes back to the heater in the corner.. and the other 3-4 swim around the entire tank but usually are in the back .

Nitrates are around 10.. Ammonia and nitrite 0.. its a 44g pentagon. they are only about 2-3 inches in size currently. Its got 3 inches of gravel and its a planted tank.. I don't dose ferts or co2.. I use Purigen tied to my spray bar extention (I entended the stock spray bar) and I have a Eheim 2217 canister.. Temps are 86f, and there is very little water current in the tank, just enough to move food around and that's it (hense my spray bar extention to lower flow and I drilled the holes in the eheim bar a tad bigger)..

The lighting im using a older Orbit duel 65w Power compact light.. It has a custom reflector I made so each bulb has its own reflector.. you know like a ^^ and not a /----\ type reflector.. Im using a 6700/6700k light and a 420/460 actinic, and a 13 inch T8 Full spectrim for the back corner of the tank (its impossible to light the entire tank with 1 fixture) .. I like the actinic because it pops the color in the Neons/cardinals and my discus.. But if I turn off the actinic and just keep the 6700 PC bulb on they still act like this.. and only when I turn off both PC lights they starts to swim around together in the front of the tank


A pic of the tank.. Oh and it looks normal in the pics.. but they only come to the front of the tank when Im looking at them.. or if I have the camera out lol.. They are very curious.

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/20141228_205725_zps0f157e2a.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/20141228_204602_zps7e04b339.jpg

[Surfnturf]

Maybe try rearranging your tank. I have 2 and they swim everywhere. No aversion to my finnex planted plus light either. I have read they like lower lighting but that's not what I have experienced.

[Surfnturf]

Nice tank btw.

[dghby]

well my first question would be how long have they been in there, have they had time to settle in yet??

in the wild,Discus come from area's that are shaded a good bit. under over hanging banks, tree stumps and roots with vegetation over the water in a lot of situations.
not saying they don't like the light just takes them some time to adapt.

[candymancan]

Well they have been in this tank for about 2 months now. I did just rearrange the tank about 2 weeks ago though... Originally I had a large stump in it with roots and stuff.. but I took it out as it was too overpowering for the tank and took up a lot of volume.


The main discus im questioning is one of blue turquoise the smaller one hes about 2 1/2 inches, the larger one the alpha is about 3 1/2 now. The smaller one doesn't get picked on. no one bothers him and he always hides in that rock cave.. You can see him in there in my pictures. See the dark shadow ? He isn't dark though hes normal colors when he does come out.. he isn't breathing heavy.. I rarely see him eating though.. But he must be eating otherwise im sure hed be dead by now lol. Then the other discus is this one.. Its my blue Snakeskin.. he always hangs out by the heater.. Its actually my prettiest looking one but the damn thing hides lol..

I dunno, seems the most active ones are the stunted sunset I have im sure you can see that one in the first pic.. I got him from a guy on CL who was tearing down his tank.. Bought both for $40 the bigger one is fine and is about 2 1/2 inches almost 3.. but the stunted one seem like hes barely 2 inches.. But anyway lol the stunted one eats like a pig.. and actually is the second in charge believe it or not he picks on the bigger ones lol..

Im not sure what to do with the one who hides and the one who sits by the heater 24/7... They only come out if I turn all the lights off Here is a picture of the Blue Snakeskin who always hangs out by the heater and Eheim pipe Sorry I couldn't get that great of a shot.. but he looks visually fine to me. The 2nd pic is what my tank was like a few weeks ago.. Obviously the watersprite was a bit overgrown lol.. but when it was like that blocking the lights they ALL came out.. They liked the caves in that wood too but as you can see it just took up the entire tank.. I think it displaced about 4 gallons of water in its own lol

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/20150102_123301_zps6e6566b8.jpg

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/20141214_221757_zps59a01111.jpg

[brady]

IMO that tank is too bright and too open. By that I mean there is glass on all sides. I don't think they feel very secure.
AS I said just my opinion.
JAy

[candymancan]

Well the blue light makes it look bright, as for open you could be right. but all tanks have glass on all sides im a little confused what do you mean by that ? What should I do to make it less open but not so crammed ? I was thinking of maybe getting more slate from the flower bed boiling it and making some more caves and stuff..

I also think the rocks make it look brighter too.. White reflects light since they are tanish color it probably doesn't help.. I have been debating moving to more of a floramax substrate for my plants that way I don't have to add ferts.. and I love the way floramax looks in my 27g hexagon.

Im just worried removing all these rocks will kill my BIO filter... Ive removed rocks before and ammonia blew up in the tank I did it in.. When I removed that big piece of driftwood in the picture above my ammonia and nitrites went up to around 1-2ppm I was really suprised

[brady]

I was going to say paint the back 3 or 4 sides but then you mention it's only a 27 gal tank. You are headed for failure. Those fish will never grow to a reasonable size if at all. Compounding the problem is your substrate which will eventually get polluted with food ect.
Get a new tank, preferably a 50 0r 75 Gal go bare bottom and maybe some drift wood and you should be alright. Otherwise get rid of the discus and get guppies.
Well the blue light makes it look bright, as for open you could be right. but all tanks have glass on all sides im a little confused what do you mean by that ? What should I do to make it less open but not so crammed ? I was thinking of maybe getting more slate from the flower bed boiling it and making some more caves and stuff..

I also think the rocks make it look brighter too.. White reflects light since they are tanish color it probably doesn't help.. I have been debating moving to more of a floramax substrate for my plants that way I don't have to add ferts.. and I love the way floramax looks in my 27g hexagon.

Im just worried removing all these rocks will kill my BIO filter... Ive removed rocks before and ammonia blew up in the tank I did it in.. When I removed that big piece of driftwood in the picture above my ammonia and nitrites went up to around 1-2ppm I was really suprised

[gardengoats]

I just started with discus. I'm not going to give advice, but an observation. My discus are more active when the tank light is off. They are becoming more active during the day with the light on. It is obvious they are aware of their surroundings as a larger movement in the room sends them to The other side of the tank.

Remember as someone already posted that their natural habitat isn't brightly lighted.

[candymancan]

I was going to say paint the back 3 or 4 sides but then you mention it's only a 27 gal tank. You are headed for failure. Those fish will never grow to a reasonable size if at all. Compounding the problem is your substrate which will eventually get polluted with food ect.
Get a new tank, preferably a 50 0r 75 Gal go bare bottom and maybe some drift wood and you should be alright. Otherwise get rid of the discus and get guppies.



You need to fully read what people write.. not skim through man... I said I was thinking of putting Floramax in the tank.. because that way I don't have to add ferts.. I don't add them right now but my plants are kind ehh they need iron and stuff but I cant dose because the discus get weird when I do... Then I mentioned I liked the way floramax looked in my 27g hexagon. I have 8 Tanks, a 55g, 44g pentagon, 30g, 27g hex, and various smaller tanks... I mentioned I Liked the floramax in my 27g hex so I was thinking of putting it in the discus tank.... Come on man..

This tank is a 44g pentagon.. Look at the pictures.. does it look like a friggin 27g tank ? Your guppy comment was so rude !!! Im like extremely pissed off at your comment right now that I had to smoke a cig... why do you DISCUS fish people get so damn rude sometimes. I did nothing to you and yet you insult me ! This tank is nearly the length of a 30g tank and deeper then a 75g tank.. Not to mention much taller, granted its not as long as my 55g or a 75g but its a fairly big tank for 2-3 inch discus.

[brewmaster15]

You need to fully read what people write.. not skim through man... I said I was thinking of putting Floramax in the tank.. because that way I don't have to add ferts.. I don't add them right now but my plants are kind ehh they need iron and stuff but I cant dose because the discus get weird when I do... Then I mentioned I liked the way floramax looked in my 27g hexagon. I have 8 Tanks, a 55g, 44g pentagon, 30g, 27g hex, and various smaller tanks... I mentioned I Liked the floramax in my 27g hex so I was thinking of putting it in the discus tank.... Come on man..

This tank is a 44g pentagon.. Look at the pictures.. does it look like a friggin 27g tank ? Your guppy comment was so rude !!! Im like extremely pissed off at your comment right now that I had to smoke a cig... why do you DISCUS fish people get so damn rude sometimes. I did nothing to you and yet you insult me ! This tank is nearly the length of a 30g tank and deeper then a 75g tank.. Not to mention much taller


Okay...let me address this with a simple question. I've gone thru all you threads and read all you posts... Do you want help with your discus tank? Do you want your Discus to thrive...If so, read very carefully what I am going to say. Your tank set up for 6 discus, plants,tetras and substrate is not ideal. Its a problem waiting to happen. The fact that its a 44 gal tank is not really much different than a 27... 17 gals alone is not going to make it right. The tank is a pentagon. While that tank is good for some kinds of fish.. Discus are shoaling and schooling fish, they do best in long tanks... a 55-75 gal would be better. You may not want to hear this, but your tank is overstocked and not set up well for discus. Additionally that substrate is a problem...the large pores in it make for debris and bacteria buildup. If you look at your peppered pigeons tail, you can see its frayed and opaque. Its an indicator that all is not well.


Then they all come out.. they school together and are always in the front of the tank away from the 13 inch t8 in the back... Its like my discus don't like light at all..

When I feed them.. they come out and eat.. They don't like anything but freeze dried blood worms.. Ive tried 4 different types of foods so I mix the freeze dried bloodworms with tetramin flakes for my neons. Once the feeding is done they go back to what they were doing.. 1 hides 24/7 under the dark rock cave,, the other goes back to the heater in the corner.. and the other 3-4 swim around the entire tank but usually are in the back . Thats not because of the light. Its because they are stressed by the tank itself.. The tank may look appealing to you, but its really not appropriate for discus.

al

Ps.. If you want to ignore a member, you have an ignore list you can add that person to your ignore list. Its quick and easy and you will not see their posts anywhere on the forum.... but Threads on this forum are not "yours" they are public. Please remember that. I may not agree with Jay's Guppy comment, but I do agree that the tank itself has multiple issues.

[candymancan]

Okay...let me address this with a simple question. I've gone thru all you threads and read all you posts... Do you want help with your discus tank? Do you want your Discus to thrive...If so, read very carefully what I am going to say. Your tank set up for 6 discus, plants,tetras and substrate is not ideal. Its a problem waiting to happen. The fact that its a 44 gal tank is not really much different than a 27... 17 gals alone is not going to make it right. The tank is a pentagon. While that tank is good for some kinds of fish.. Discus are shoaling and schooling fish, they do best in long tanks... a 55-75 gal would be better. You may not want to hear this, but your tank is overstocked and not set up well for discus. Additionally that substrate is a problem...the large pores in it make for debris and bacteria buildup. If you look at your peppered pigeons tail, you can see its frayed and opaque. Its an indicator that all is not well.

Thats not because of the light. Its because they are stressed by the tank itself.. The tank may look appealing to you, but its really not appropriate for discus.

al

Ps.. If you want to ignore a member, you have an ignore list you can add that person to your ignore list. Its quick and easy and you will not see their posts anywhere on the forum.... but Threads on this forum are not "yours" they are public. Please remember that. I may not agree with Jay's Guppy comment, but I do agree that the tank itself has multiple issues.


The sunset orange discus the pigeon your refering too I have had only a month now.. I got it like that from the previous owner heavily peppered and stunted.. I hear what your saying about the tank, I have a 55g, but its got too many fish id have to transfer them over swapping tanks

which substrate are you talking about. The current rocks or the floramax ?

[brewmaster15]

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/20141228_205725_zps0f157e2a.jpg...this pic...the substrate will trap food and debris.

On the pigeon, its good you recognize its runted..but the issue I am refering to is its tail...thats not from past care,it represents problems with current tank conditions.

I am glad you understand what I mean by the tank not being appropriate...the question now is how do you fix it? Raising discus in that tank is the root of the questions you are asking.You obviously like fish, why not give them conditions they can thrive in?
Not having the room or having too many other fish isnt going to matter to the discus and unfortunately you will keep having issues with them being stressed and with their health.
Maybe look around and look at what fish you keep...make a decision of what you really want to work with and rehome the others...thats what I would do.
hth,
al

[bluelagoon]

Rearranging things too many times may also spook your young discus and in turn takes more time for them to trust you and be comfortable in their environment.I would consider a different tank and wait on other species and plants til your discus have grown out a bit.Lets say about year at least.It will make your life and theirs a whole lot easier.

[Surfnturf]

I don't understand. I always read that discus like a taller tank. Is that just because they are taller than most fish? Mine seem to mostly swim back and forth rather than up and down.

Have you considered adding floating plants to tone down the light some?

[candymancan]

http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j385/enclave12/20141228_205725_zps0f157e2a.jpg...this pic...the substrate will trap food and debris.

On the pigeon, its good you recognize its runted..but the issue I am refering to is its tail...thats not from past care,it represents problems with current tank conditions.

I am glad you understand what I mean by the tank not being appropriate...the question now is how do you fix it? Raising discus in that tank is the root of the questions you are asking.You obviously like fish, why not give them conditions they can thrive in?
Not having the room or having too many other fish isnt going to matter to the discus and unfortunately you will keep having issues with them being stressed and with their health.
Maybe look around and look at what fish you keep...make a decision of what you really want to work with and rehome the others...thats what I would do.
hth,
al


Of yea i see what your reffering too.. thats when i just got my eheim 2217.. switching filters i had a bit of a nitrite issue for a few days.. Ill take a new pic he isnt like that anymore.. those pics are 2 weeks old.. Yea him and the other sunset i got together from a local guy tearing his tank down.. i knew he was stunted even told the guy the other one is 2x his size and thr owner claimed he got em at the same time.. He has thrm both in a 120g tank so i dunno why it got stunted but it eats fine for me poops fine.. At least hes happy i dont mind that he wont fully grow..


As for trapping food . Debris i fully understand thst but i do not want bare bottom tanks.. I wont go there.. i vacuum around my plants and every 2 days my nitrates are managable.. But if i switched substrates .. Is a darker one or lighter one preffered for discus ? My 55g for example has black in it.. vs this one that has a lighter substrate

[brewmaster15]

If you stay with substrate go with as thin as you can and sand is easiest to clean...work in a shallow area and set up filter flow to move food and debris there for easy cleaning.
Pigeon based fish like your reds will show more pepper when theres dark substrate...non pigeon is better for dark substrate.

[brewmaster15]

I don't understand. I always read that discus like a taller tank. Is that just because they are taller than most fish? Mine seem to mostly swim back and forth rather than up and down.

Have you considered adding floating plants to tone down the light some?

Discus do like a deep tank...but they need to be able to swim laterally..this is critical as they get older because it lets them put space between them and their tank mates when they want or need to....the best tanks are rectangular for groups of discus.Pairs can be housed in square or multisided tanks if bare or well maintained.My first pair of discus with fry was in a tank exactly like this 44 penta...substrate gravel plants etc..that was 20 plus years ago...And I failed miserably. So when I suggest this tank is not ideal for discus,I am really going from my experience.
hth,
al