Fishless Cycle * wrong ammonia !

[Ruell310]

Hello folks , Well..... I have gone and done something wrong again....

please advise any way to correct this....

I have a 100 gal tank that I just got back.

brief story of my Discus journey so far :

got new tank for Christmas...wanted to keep discus because they looked soooooo nice.
filled tank and started adding fish ( different LFS's )....disucs..tetras spent a lot is $$$$.
Then all fish got sick and died , day after day something was dying or dead.
tried to diagnose and save fish got all kids of meds and used YouTube but to no avail.
saved 2 algae eaters ( pleceos ) and 2 rams.

Found this website and started reading and researching on discus.

Decided to try again.....I like the challenge and the learning involved in looking after discus.

Emptied my tank to go BB at which point the tank started to leak....no not kidding..seriously.
Apparently somehow a magical leak happened once I emptied the tank and refilled it.

Took the tank to manufacture and had to explain the leaking, to which they said has never happened to their tanks (NEVER)..seriously!
Apparently there was a crack on the bottom which didn't appear until one month after having water in it.
I never moved the tank in that time , wife and kids won't touch it so...yeah, well, that's how that went.

SO..got a replacement new tank. Cleaned and Filled it up as soon as we came home to make sure everything was OK.

Now the main point of this post...

I am doing a fishless cycle and had added Ammonia which I got from walmart.
Read to make sure it was what I thought would be correct for Ammonia..no scents etc....
Yesterday I found out that I used the wrong ammonia because it has foam.
The right ammonia shouldn't have foam right!..just a clear liquid after you shake it.

This ammonia has been cycling in my tank with the bacteria starter stuff for like 2 days now.

I tested the water and there is like 4ppm of ammonia and also nitrites and nitrates are present.

please tell me what I should do to fix this.....

Was planning to empty about half the water and refill maybe every Saturday.
Since the tank is cycling I don't want to stop the cycle process and start all over again.
I was planning to cycle for about 1 month or until all water parameter were situated.

Also I have bought a QT tank ( 10 gallon ) and a grow out tank (20 gallon ) for about 2-3 discus at a time.

thanks for taking the time to read and I would appreciate any advise.

[Second Hand Pat]

If the ammonia you bought foams there is a good chance it has surfactants which I understand is toxic to fish. If I were in your shoes I would break down the tank, thoroughly clean it and start afresh. I would strongly suggest doing some serious research and slowdown so you do not end up with another disaster.

[Ruell310]

Hello Pat , thanks for your feedback.

I am guessing through my post you could feel the frustrations coming through.

I have kept many a fish tanks before when I was in my twenties.
Kept a community tank which was 40 gal. and 2 cichlid tanks at 60 and 80 gallons.
Never did I have such a rollercoaster ride.

I will take your advice and clean out tank this weekend.

I have seen a hardware store near my house and will see if they carry
the correct ammonia....will shake and check for foam :).

will restart all over again and do it right! Thanks again.

[blueluv]

http://i357.photobucket.com/albums/oo12/espiritudentrimi80/Mobile%20Uploads/F57B09F3-2426-491C-8142-7925F90CF110_zpspapeeiyj.jpg (http://s357.photobucket.com/user/espiritudentrimi80/media/Mobile%20Uploads/F57B09F3-2426-491C-8142-7925F90CF110_zpspapeeiyj.jpg.html)

Hey Ruell310. This is what you'll need to perform a fishless cycle

[Andy27012]

i just finished doing a fish less cycle and used this ammonia product made for aquarium (http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B006MP4QG6/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new) use from Amazon. I used two drops a gallons and got roughly 3 ppm ammonia. It's cheap and I was afraid that I would wind up buying the wrong thing from the store. All fish are doing well and they caused zero cycle in the tank.

[limige]

great topic, i'm about to try my first fishless cycle.
I have some ammonia I bought from the dollar store I think. no listed as added, shook it and no foam so hopefully its good to go.

I still need to pickup something to test the ammonia level and wait for my new filters to arrive. hopefully i'll have a breeding pair going within a month!

[MendoMan]

The Ace brand ( as suggested ) will work great for you. I can't emphasize enough to BE PATIENT and study up. It took my tank, a 140 gal. five weeks. And it worked great. One of the tutorials I studied did come from this site.

[rickztahone]

You can get the correct ammonia product from your local Ace hardware as well if you have one close to you.

OP, I would do as Pat suggested and completely break the tank down. You lose the money you invested in the bacteria booster, but you save yourself some money from not killing your fish down the line.

[limige]

so, you add enough ammonia to attain 5ppm. add that amount per day until the nitrite spikes then reduce to half the original amount....
but for how long do you continue?

[rickztahone]

As long as you would like for the bacteria to be present. That is their food source. You can not remove that until you introduce another food source, in this case, new discus :)

[limige]

so once the nitrates and nitrites level out your good for fish?

[Tankster]

so once the nitrates and nitrites level out your good for fish? ... after a 100% water change? I ask because I will be doing this in the not too distant future.

[limige]

just found a different article and its says to wait until the nitrite spikes and goes down to zero and the ammonia should be gone the next day. at this point the filters should be cycled. once the fish are ready do a water change to remove the nitrates and put your fish in.
until the fish go in you need to keep adding ammonia to feed the bacteria.

will give it a shot!

[Larry Grenier]

Ammonia diminishes 1st, NitrItes 2nd, and NitrAtes are kept to a minimum with good tank maintenance, the 1st being water changes.

I have been keeping fish since the 70s and I've never used liquid ammonia to cycle a tank and still don't understand why folks do but I guess that's just me.

I just start my filters, add a generous amount of water from an established tank and maybe a cup of gravel from an established tank and throw a generous portion of fish food in the tank. As the food decomposes, ammonia is released feeding the nitrifying bacteria and allowing them to colonize the bio-section of the filter.

I've also used a cocktail shrimp from last-night leftovers.

Even better, get an established filter sponge from an established tank and add the fish food immediately. You may not see the ammonia-spike even-though the transferred filter-sponge may be very dirty and you're adding fish food, because the good bacteria is already consuming(converting) ammonia to nitrIte and nitrIte to NitrAte.

[limige]

because not everyone has established tanks to steal from, and/or want to rush the cycle.

personally I only have an angel pair and no substrate. I don't even have an extra filter. I ordered filters and hope they will be here by Thursday. I purchased a pair of fish but have to wait to get the tank cycled before they are shipped. I don't want to wait if I can safely speed up the whole process.

besides it eliminates possible spread of disease or parasites from other tanks if you are starting everything from scratch.

besides, I've never tried before..

[rickztahone]

Ammonia diminishes 1st, NitrItes 2nd, and NitrAtes are kept to a minimum with good tank maintenance, the 1st being water changes.

I have been keeping fish since the 70s and I've never used liquid ammonia to cycle a tank and still don't understand why folks do but I guess that's just me.

I just start my filters, add a generous amount of water from an established tank and maybe a cup of gravel from an established tank and throw a generous portion of fish food in the tank. As the food decomposes, ammonia is released feeding the nitrifying bacteria and allowing them to colonize the bio-section of the filter.

I've also used a cocktail shrimp from last-night leftovers.

Even better, get an established filter sponge from an established tank and add the fish food immediately. You may not see the ammonia-spike even-though the transferred filter-sponge may be very dirty and you're adding fish food, because the good bacteria is already consuming(converting) ammonia to nitrIte and nitrIte to NitrAte.

While I saw your point, I have wanted to start tanks in the past where I wanted to be sure that I was contaminating in any way possible. If you get media from another tank, you can not make that claim.

[Larry Grenier]

"Rush the cycle"? Like I said, must be just me. I prefer to kick-start the nitrogen cycle naturally. Fish respiration and defeation and decomposing uneaten food are what keep the nitrifying bacteria going, not a chemical coming from a bottle.

Another thought, fish disease and/or parasites have a short life-span in a tank with no fish and just un-eaten fish food. A parasite requires a host.

Personally, I'd clean the filter from the angel tank right in the tank you're trying to cycle rather than chemicals from a bottle. Your filter will begin colonizing right away.

If you're concerned about cross-contamination, keep feeding the tank without the fish added yet for a month.

[limige]

I have wondered how it would work to try and seed a filter that way. anybody try rinsing a cycled filter in an uncycled tank and kept track of the time required?

I look at it as broadening my horizens. I just want to be absolutely sure it'll be safe for my fish. that's my only concern at this point.

[aalbina]

I have worked with a Biology professor on my campus and he has studied freshwater born parasites that go dormant without the presence of a host and come out of dormancy based on chemical ques released in the water when a host is present - so I would be careful with the statement that a parasite needs a host. That statement is perfectly true - Just like Larry says below - but some of them can apparently live for quite a while without a host in the water.

This professor was actually interested in doing some research on the topic with gill flukes - as it "seems" that they never go away. Literature review of past and current research suggest that gill flukes don't have this ability but he is interested in doing a controlled lab experiment.

This might be another thing to consider when deciding whether to break down, clean and start from scratch.

Adam


"Rush the cycle"? Like I said, must be just me. I prefer to kick-start the nitrogen cycle naturally. Fish respiration and defeation and decomposing uneaten food are what keep the nitrifying bacteria going, not a chemical coming from a bottle.

Another thought, fish disease and/or parasites have a short life-span in a tank with no fish and just un-eaten fish food. A parasite requires a host.

Personally, I'd clean the filter from the angel tank right in the tank you're trying to cycle rather than chemicals from a bottle. Your filter will begin colonizing right away.

If you're concerned about cross-contamination, keep feeding the tank without the fish added yet for a month.

[limige]

Here's what I bought

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/20150121_041944_zpsfxkaxlb5.jpg

[limige]

]http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e256/limige/20150121_041958_zpsvdcnopbk.jpg

[Ruell310]

Besides the ammonia , Larry had mentioned adding fish food. This is could be very easily since we all have fish food or it is readily available.
The question is that there are several post which mention not getting fish food into the filters. there's mention of a cover sock on intakes to keep food out.
From my reading the food stays inside the filters and pollutes the water constantly.
Could using the fish food option be explained a little more. Thanks,

[Kingdom Come Discus]

Started many tanks using this product. I prefer the pure pond. You can find it here.http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?96202-PURE-AQUARIUM-bacteria-is-here

Bill is great to deal with.

[blueluv]

Started many tanks using this product. I prefer the pure pond. You can find it here.http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?96202-PURE-AQUARIUM-bacteria-is-here

Bill is great to deal with.
Did you use ammonia to feed the BB ?

[Kingdom Come Discus]

I just put the pure pond in a mesh bag or a live blackworm feeder and add fish. You will see the balls reduce in size the first day or so at which time I add abut half of the original amount. I would keep testing the water for ammonia and nitrite. There used to be a link on Bill's sponsor page where a simply member documented the whole process. I will try to find the link for you.

[Kingdom Come Discus]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?99490-Cycling-with-Pure-Aquarium-and-Pure-Pond-Balls

[limige]

well it seems i'm seeding with the already cycled tank, actually stole the sponge and half the water and put a new sponge in that tank. pair showed up ahead of schedule and are now getting used to their new digs

[barkmanusd]

I love this site cause the vast majority of folks are so nice! Unfortunately, sometimes 'nice' doesn't get the major point(s) emphasized appropriately. Amongst nothing but good info. two posts have asked the OP to 'SLOW DOWN"! My emphasis - not his. :o) I couldn't agree more!

You literally leaped into a new tank with multiple discus 'cause they look so nice...', killed multiple fish, cracked a new aquarium, aquired a new tank, bought a QT and grow out tank within a months time! You've got to tap the brakes. This is a process which requires some research & understanding before you entertain live fish.....
I see you finished up by saying you were gonna cycle for a month before re-introducing fish - stick to that! That's made me feel better after reading your post.
Like most of us you will pick up the ins and outs quickly. None of this is rocket science! but you do have to patiently do somethings right. Good luck! Hopefully didnt come down too hard on you but wanted to break your excitement bubble and ensure you heard the important things.

[Capecrusher]

Hello All!

I just joined this forum and thought this would be a good topic to make my first post. First, let me say that I am a Wastewater Plant Operator and have been for almost twenty years. Think of the aquarium as a mini wastewater system. The nitrogen cycle is a natural cycle and the necessary bacteria are everywhere and pretty much on anything you find in nature. All you need is a source of ammonia to start the cycle. It doesen't matter where the ammonia comes from, a bottle, old filter sludge, or water from another aquarium. Ammonia is ammonia and it will start the process. Once you see nitrates, the cycle has been established and when ammonia and nitrite drop to zero after an addition of more ammonia, you should be good to go.:coffee: