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DiscusJimmy
04-03-2015, 09:52 AM
Hello Simply members!
Sorry I do not post that much, but I am an avid reader in the forum and have learned so much through this website. I thought it was time to stop taking and give a little for once.
I have been keeping discus now for 3 years now and wanted to share some of my experiences and major mistakes over the years leading up to now.
Firstly I have been keeping fish all of my life; starting with goldfish, then tropical community, Malawi cichlids and finally Discus. All of this prior experience, I do not think, really prepares you for discus though. These fish are much less forgiving and soon tell you when you’re screwing with their home too much!
So what have I learned over the last 3 years that is worth passing on...

1. Water is your friend...change it often, test it often but don’t screw with it!

The water I have here in Spain is very changeable. When it rains the pH can fluctuate wildly. For this reason and because I want to breed I bought a RO system. Plus I wanted to create the perfect water...or the myth of the perfect water.

My water from the RO unit comes out at pH6.6, KH 0, GH 0, TDS 9. This is great and I thought to myself I can chase the pH of 6.8 and set the KH and GH to whatever I want. This is true to some extent, but the moment you think about buffering the pH will have to increase accordingly. This cost me a fish by increasing the KH and adding acid to lower the pH afterwards. The pH “bounced” and one fish turned into a missile and terminated itself.

Now I add enough KH to my storage bucket to increase it to KH2.5 – 3 which will bring the pH up to 7.2 and just leave it well alone at that. I know I can use branded buffers, but to be honest the more things you add the greater the margin for error.

2. Quarantine your fish or roll the dice...

It is discussed here so much and like many new comers I thought it won’t happen to me. Well it did and I wiped out a whole tank except the 2 new Discus I added.

My mantra now is if you buy discus that’s great, if you want to buy more...and you will! get another tank first. It is FAR cheaper in the long run! I have a dedicated tank in another room all by itself for future new arrivals.

3. Fish at the LFS are the harbingers of death.

It’s a hard lesson that I do not wish on anyone but trying to “rescue” or “nurse” back to health one lonely discus is not worth your entire tank. Leave it well alone and say a prayer for it if it makes you feel better!

I now mail order all my fish from a reputable discus importer, yes it costs more but is far less costly.

4. Gravel or bare bottom...personally in my opinion, it’s about the fish not what you like.

I have had both but will never use gravel again. It is just too hard to keep clean, no matter how hard you try. IMO it was only stubbornness that kept gravel (pool filter sand) in the tank but after I finally removed it life became so much easier.

I love plants and planted driftwood is just as nice and cleaning is not a laborious task. Just a quick vacuum and all nice a clean!

5. Equipment...more is MORE!

When I started out with discus I already had the basics: Tank, heater, air pump and filter. Then when you start keeping them you soon learn that you just do not have enough.

I would recommend having spares of everything, especially heaters! I also love electronic thermostats.

6. Sick fish...it’s always you that caused it!

Discus tell you when they are not happy, look for the signs. However in every case I have dealt with thus far it is always me to blame. I mentioned quarantining, but if you have otherwise healthy fish and suddenly something happens. Look no further than the water they are in / you’re adding. 9 times out of 10 you’ve screwed something up either by not changing enough or by not checking the water you’re adding.

Many times I blamed the fish for my mistakes, you run to a forum looking for people that have had fish with the same symptoms. Before you know it you treating them with something they don’t need and compounding the problem.

My advice is buy good test kits and don’t be shy with them!

So three years on and I’m by no means an expert, just a little bit more clued up. I now have 2 x 55 tanks, 1 x 20 gallon hospital tank, and 1 x 150 gallon...and no fish of any type in any of them!

Yes that’s right, no fish at all! It has been my ambition to setup a large display tank and over the last 18 months I have been saving to be able to have my “dream” tank. The 150 gallon has finally cycled and my 6 x 15cm Ricky Lim Leopards and 6 x 17cm Ricky Lim Turquoise Brilliants are arriving in 5 days!

I had the tank and sump built to my specifications and have built the stand and plumbed it all in myself. It will change 200 litres of water automatically every day and there is not a single piece of equipment in the main tank. Just some pieces of planted driftwood!
The other tanks are still cycling and it is my intention to start breeding them. The reason for no fish is I sold all my adult fish so I could sterilize everything and start again with new fish.

I’ll keep everyone posted on how this is going and I’m sure I will be picking some brains along the way!

Solid
04-03-2015, 02:29 PM
Good advice. Sounds like you have an impressive tank in the works. I would like to see your sump plumbing and water change system. Sounds cool.

DiscusRob
04-05-2015, 09:38 AM
Excellent Post

Second Hand Pat
04-05-2015, 10:55 AM
Hi Jimmy,

Many valid points in your first post :D and your new group of fish should be very nice. I have seen Ricky Lim fish in person and they are very, nice fish. Now we need pictures :D:D

Pat

DiscusJimmy
04-05-2015, 04:06 PM
Hey guys thanks for the encouragement! I can do better than pictures and share a video of the fish the supplier sent me of all my fish in holding tank while my tank is cycling!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dsR2NWPC0A&feature=youtu.be

It's not like having them here though! But I must confess I have been watching it whilst talking to the bacteria in the sump and asking them nicely to hurry up and multiply!

I'll get some picture up soon of the setup, but i'm still debugging the system. I had a nitrite spike today, thankfully no fish here yet but they arrive on Wednesday 8th (I can't stop them arriving), so I am in full panic mode at the moment.

The tank will process 4ppm ammonia in 24 hrs and I did have zero nitrites. I added some extra media, which I thought would have no impact on the filter and have been doing WC's but the nitrites are up at 0.8...needless to say I am concerned!

I have 2 x 55's at my disposal but they are not cycled at all. They have been sterilized and could be filled up to house 6 discus each. But I would have to be changing large quantities of water in both every night....

I am just praying at the moment! That's all I can do!

DiscusJimmy
04-06-2015, 05:29 AM
Quick update:

The tank has been cycling since the end of January. The nitrite is still as of today 0.8 and I have been adding ammonia daily up to 2ppm.

I have managed to defer the fishes arrival until this tank is back to normal and this "mini cycle" has rectified, which is good news.

Here's some pictures of the setup:
8622286223

The aquarium is going to remain BB and the drift wood will be the only decorations, but I may add to it over time. I love having the sump as all the equipment can go into it and the tank is free from everything.

The sump's first section is filled up with pot scrubbies and is a wet dry filter. There are 2 large air stones at the under the scrubbies powered by a Hailea Air Compressor (which also feeds all my other tanks) for extra aeration. 4l of ceramic media under this.

Next section foam...lots of foam with some Ehiem media sandwiched into it. Large section is empty at the moment apart from the 2 heaters (Ehiem Jager 250's). May convert that into a refugium...but still researching it. next 2 sections filled with ehiem mech and tetra bioballs for fluidised media filter followed by more foams

The return is powered by a Boyu pump that will deliver 5000l /hr but I have fitted a ball valve to control the flow and can adjust as necessary. The water change system is powered by 2 x Eheim pumps (one in the sump the other in the storage container. The pump in the storage container is controlled by a Eco HL-233T with 2 float switches in the sump, the return line is into the aquarium. The pump in the sump is on a digital timer and runs for 45mins. I fitted a tap onto it to adjust the water leaving the sump to balance it with the returning "clean" water.

DiscusRob
04-06-2015, 10:03 AM
The nitrite is a stumper, I don't see how adding media would cause it, you were reading zero before, and now .8 so I'm going to say the test kit is accurate. I do have a couple thoughts, you mentioned in your first post here that the water in spain is very changeable. Could that be part of the current issue, because you mention doing wc's?? Also, what condition are your membranes on your RO system in, they might be getting plugged and leaching back into your water. Just a couple thoughts to think about.

DiscusJimmy
04-06-2015, 10:19 AM
It is one of life's mysteries.

I thought it might be the test kit but I used three of different brands (tetra, salfert and JBL) they all test the same 0.8 reading.

I tested the TDS from the RO membrane (product water) quite recently and it is the same as it's always been. Just tested the nitrite level in the storage container...that's 0.0

I only mentioned the media as I added new scrubbies into the 1st section and pushed down the ones that were in there. Some of those were the ones that were previously exposed to the dripping from the wet/dry filter...It's a total guess though.

Interesting enough the nitrite is not rising above 0.8 even though I am still feeding ammonia. The nitrate is increasing to indicate that the whole cycling process is working...

I am just going to have to be patient... But i really want my fish!!

DiscusRob
04-06-2015, 10:30 AM
I agree, be patient, same brand of scrubbies as previously used or ???????

DiscusJimmy
04-06-2015, 11:32 AM
No same brand. Can't really rule that out as an option.

rickztahone
04-06-2015, 12:07 PM
Is that a green mesh you see inside of the tank or on the bottom of it?

Have you had a problem with placing the heaters the way you do? I am in the building stages of my sump and will have to give up good real estate to have them horizontal at the bottom floor. Doesn't the heater having direct contact with the tank bottom worry you?

I really like your foam section though. I may incorporate something like that myself.

DiscusJimmy
04-06-2015, 12:43 PM
The "green mesh" is between the tank and the table. It's like memory foam but (and correct me if I wrong) will save me painting the bottom of the tank.

i have not had any problems with the heaters in that configuration and they are quite secure. You can always buy more smaller heaters to manage the load. I still may relocate them yet if that section turns into a refugium. so 3 smaller heaters might be used.

I did not want to put them into the last section as the water level there can change (especially if a pump craps out) whereas the other sections remain at the same level.

rickztahone
04-06-2015, 05:01 PM
The "green mesh" is between the tank and the table. It's like memory foam but (and correct me if I wrong) will save me painting the bottom of the tank.

i have not had any problems with the heaters in that configuration and they are quite secure. You can always buy more smaller heaters to manage the load. I still may relocate them yet if that section turns into a refugium. so 3 smaller heaters might be used.

I did not want to put them into the last section as the water level there can change (especially if a pump craps out) whereas the other sections remain at the same level.

I considered this as well but made it (will make it) so that it has enough water to keep the pump from running dry. I also plan on using an ATO to combat this.

Here is my sketch up of the 40g breeder sump if you don't mind me posting it here in your thread that is:

8625086251

DiscusJimmy
04-07-2015, 09:09 AM
Looks good.

My only comments would be that the filter sock would be submerged in the water. Most are about 10cm long. You can get a clip with them and attach them to the side of the tank

rickztahone
04-07-2015, 05:53 PM
Looks good.

My only comments would be that the filter sock would be submerged in the water. Most are about 10cm long. You can get a clip with them and attach them to the side of the tank

That is a good point I hadn't thought of. I could theoretically raise that particular section of the sump so that the filter sock isn't submerged in so much water. The last thing I would want is for the filter sock to be floating around in too much water.

DiscusJimmy
04-10-2015, 05:39 AM
Just to give an update. The nitrites finally went to 0 and the fish arrived today! It's been a LONG wait and a very lonely one.
86349

Five minutes after "drop and plop" all active and swimming. Did 50% water change at the same time.

Now the water monitoring begins.....

Shall I feed them tonight? They look as though they would eat....

DiscusRob
04-10-2015, 07:47 AM
Looking Good Jimmy, really good.

DiscusJimmy
04-10-2015, 03:48 PM
Cheers Rob, appreciate the comment.

I decided to offer them some frozen blood worms and they ate that right up. Just given them some more now and they all ate it from my hand.

Think I may have a pair, they're cleaning an area and chasing others away...fingers crossed!

alron2
04-10-2015, 05:17 PM
Great looking fish. Where did you find them?
Ron

DiscusJimmy
04-10-2015, 05:31 PM
Hi Ron,

They're Ricky Lim discus which were supplied by an importer / breeder here in Spain.

cellingson
04-11-2015, 11:43 PM
Looks good.

My only comments would be that the filter sock would be submerged in the water. Most are about 10cm long. You can get a clip with them and attach them to the side of the tank

Does it matter if the filter sock is submerged in the water? As long as the water doesn't flow over the edge of the sock-then it must flow through the sock.

What is going to be your media in chamber 2?

DiscusJimmy
04-12-2015, 06:31 AM
Well my thoughts on the filter sock question are that water will always travel the path of least resistance.

As the filter socks are100/200 microns, water IMO will not flow through them as fast if the filter is partially submerged and thus some will pass through the filter and the rest will overflow from it.

I would need to test this theory though...