Setting up my Return -- Need Advice

[Twistofer]

I'm going to attempt to drill my aquarium. I picked up the 1500 gph kit from glass-holes.com along with a Sicce Syncra Silent 5.0 1321gph Pump (which was recommended for the kit). The return is a 3/4" set. To help with power outages I am planning to put in a 1" check valve, which should negate the back pressure of the check valve. The valve is placed at the pump, vertically as the instructions say. Do I then reduce the system to 3/4" or should I just keep the 1" and drill the tank accordingly for a 1" return?The drains via a weir setup are a dual 1 1/2" outflow.

[rickztahone]

I'm going to attempt to drill my aquarium. I picked up the 1500 gph kit from glass-holes.com along with a Sicce Syncra Silent 5.0 1321gph Pump (which was recommended for the kit). The return is a 3/4" set. To help with power outages I am planning to put in a 1" check valve, which should negate the back pressure of the check valve. The valve is placed at the pump, vertically as the instructions say. Do I then reduce the system to 3/4" or should I just keep the 1" and drill the tank accordingly for a 1" return?The drains via a weir setup are a dual 1 1/2" outflow.

I have done A LOT of research for overflow and return systems lately, and I do mean a lot, and the general consensus is that a check valve WILL fail sooner rather than later. I would avoid a check valve at all costs, unless you are talking about the $100+ ones in which case, those have also been known to fail. What I would advise, is to add back siphon holes in your returns. In order to achieve this though, you would have to go over the back with your returns. That is actually what I am going to do with my current build as well and then make a spray bar with pvc. However, if you are drilling straight to the tank back and adding loc line or something similar, then I'd advise you to look at some other form of controlling back siphoning. Up and over doesn't have to look ugly. I plan on buying 1.25" 80 Schedule PVC (black color) and it shouldn't be too noticeable. No more so than a regular spray bar from any of your regular filters.

Additionally, pushing 1321gph may require larger diameter than 3/4" I believe. Again, the most common advice I have seen given with return sizes is to go at least double the size of the output size. For instance, my 3/4" return hole on top of my Eheim 1260 will be bushed up to 1.25 or I may even have to go up to 1.5" (doubtful, but maybe). How much surface area are you getting on the overflow. Do you have teeth in the overflow?

[Twistofer]

Ricardo,
Thanks for the help. The surface area is around 18 - 20 sq in. The box has teeth.

[rickztahone]

Ricardo,
Thanks for the help. The surface area is around 18 - 20 sq in. The box has teeth.

Be aware that an overflow claiming to do a certain amount of gph is hindered by the teeth. It hinders it exactly by half actually. The best surface skimming you can do with an overflow is a flat weir. I know this doesn't seem logical since many will say that fish will go over to the overflow area, but that is the best way to get the maximized surface area. For example, I am doing a partial C2C overflow that is 38" long. It will actually skim 42 inches since it will have 2 inches in depth in each side. If I had teeth on this C2C weir, I would only be doing 21" of skimming. Make sense?

The reason I bring this up is because I have read of people making calculations on manufacteres claims on gph through their overflow, but the estimate it as if it was a straigh weir, which obviously they are not. Just take that in to account is all I'm saying.

[Twistofer]

"Tanks" It makes sense, but this guy says the setup is supposed to be "balanced." The "box" measures 24 X 2 X 6 with an internal baffle. I'm debating installing at least one if not two gate valves on the overflow side.

[rickztahone]

"Tanks" It makes sense, but this guy says the setup is supposed to be "balanced." The "box" measures 24 X 2 X 6 with an internal baffle. I'm debating installing at least one if not two gate valves on the overflow side.

Is it a straight overflow setup or is it siphon based? Where would you add the gate valves? Is this a herbie setup? The box has good measurements, but remember, you will only use half of the measurements for the surface area as only the bottom portion of the "teeth" will be able to overflow to your sump. By internal baffle, what do you mean? Do you have pics?

[Twistofer]

It would have been a straight overflow. The gate valves would have been placed right under the 90° elbow coming off the tank, ie on the outside. I don't have pics right now, since I'm on my break at work. You can see the setup at glass-holes.com.

Ricardo -- the more you have discussed this with me, the more research I am doing, and really, I think a Bean/Herbie setup is the way to go. It seems much more reliable, and almost independent of the return, if you plan it right. I like the idea of a third, backup overflow, because you never know ... and 125 gal +/- on the floor makes a big mess :) Custom Acrylics seems to have a nice assortment of weirs, which is all I need. I've got the rest of the plumbing parts and bits. I'd be using the setup from a plan on ReefCentral (from my reefer days).

[rickztahone]

It would have been a straight overflow. The gate valves would have been placed right under the 90° elbow coming off the tank, ie on the outside. I don't have pics right now, since I'm on my break at work. You can see the setup at glass-holes.com.

Ricardo -- the more you have discussed this with me, the more research I am doing, and really, I think a Bean/Herbie setup is the way to go. It seems much more reliable, and almost independent of the return, if you plan it right. I like the idea of a third, backup overflow, because you never know ... and 125 gal +/- on the floor makes a big mess :) Custom Acrylics seems to have a nice assortment of weirs, which is all I need. I've got the rest of the plumbing parts and bits. I'd be using the setup from a plan on ReefCentral (from my reefer days).

If you want, check out my signature, I have put a lot of leg work in to my Bean Animal setup and am still in the process of building it. I can give you measurements and all that have taken me MONTHS of research to figure out. This is from me reading close to 400 pages of the 2 split Bean Animal threads over at Reef Central.

[Twistofer]

EGAD!!!! :thumbsup:

[Twistofer]

This is the system that I was thinking of building. It doesn't have the external box which other BeanAnimal Designs have -- it looks far more adaptable to my plans. I really don't have a lot of time to spend building the external box. I work full time and kind of "want to get on with it."

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

[rickztahone]

This is the system that I was thinking of building. It doesn't have the external box which other BeanAnimal Designs have -- it looks far more adaptable to my plans. I really don't have a lot of time to spend building the external box. I work full time and kind of "want to get on with it."

http://www.beananimal.com/projects/silent-and-fail-safe-aquarium-overflow-system.aspx

Yup, I was going to go with that initially. The reason I didn't was because the inside overflow needs to be much wider in this setup for room to get the bulkheads in as well as the pvc elbows. The inside box is roughly 5" in width as opposed to the 2" width I plan to run mine at with an external overflow. I really wish I had a glass tank and glass sump. It makes silicone job much easier.

[Twistofer]

I'm going to play around with the various plumbing parts, and might be able to trim the system down to about 4" in width... BeanAnimals' plan has a lot of "stuff" on the inside of the box.

I agree with you regarding the glass tank. Even using an acrylic box, I still should be able to use aquarium silicon to attach the box on the inside of the glass tank (or at least that's what the directions say).

[Twistofer]

Hey -- Dumb Question...How far down do you put the internal box? :confused:

[rickztahone]

Hey -- Dumb Question...How far down do you put the internal box? :confused:

Anywhere from 4-6" i have seen

[Twistofer]

Anywhere from 4-6" i have seen

That seems awfully low for a show tank.

[Ken]

Here is a pic of my bean style intake, could have been smaller by using street 90s instead of the "T".

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/ken75459/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150418_152853902_zpsxlzdw9km.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/ken75459/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20150418_152853902_zpsxlzdw9km.jpg.html)

[Twistofer]

Could you upload a picture? :)

[Ken]

86594
Could you upload a picture? :)

[Twistofer]

"Tanks"

[rickztahone]

That seems awfully low for a show tank.

Sry, I believe I misunderstood your question. Were you asking how low from the top of the tank (eurobracing/trim) you can space it between it and the internal overflow? If so, that really depends on the amount of gph you plan on pushing through the system. There is a calculator that estimates how much water will go over the weir. I have as much as 1" of a sheet of water going over the overflow in a flat (no teeth) overflow. You must keep this in mind when considering the placement of the overflow.

[Twistofer]

Where to I find the calculator?

[rickztahone]

Where to I find the calculator?

sry, I looked and can't remember where I came across it. If I do, I will let you know. It is on the Bean Animal thread somewhere. Somewhere in all of those 400 pages, lol.