Parasites found. Can anyone identify from a poor micrsoscope picture?

[DONTKNOWYET]

Hi all,

I hope someone could help. Although it's not about discus.

I got a microscope temporarily and took a poop sample from one of my live bearers straight from it's behind so to speak in order not to contaminate it.

And I found tiny little oval shaped things swarming like flies inside the poop. The microscope wouldn't magnify close enough to see any proper shape. I took a video but somehow it only saved 0 bytes of it so I am left with one picture.

The fish have white stringy poop occassionally, typical for hexamita but they've been treated for hexamita without results.
They are also flashing from time to time. Other than that there are no external visible signs. They look healthy and they are eating. This has been going on for a while now.
I haven't added any new fish in 3 years in this tank. But a few months ago I started feeding frozen food, including prawns and some dedicated fish food like blood worms and such. I don't know where the fish got the stuff from.

Here is a picture of what I found. It's the tiny elongated flecks which are "buzzing" around so to speak when viewed live. The fish from which I took the sample appears healthy and is an adult that was born and grew inside the tank.

I know it's hard diagnosing from such a poor picture. But any pointers which I can research would be great. I think the magnification used was 100x


http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p706/Snezz/Hexamita_zpsmwqmwxka.jpg

87067

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
I wish I could help here, but the image just isn't giving enough detail...could try to help based on symptom though.. when you say you were treating for Hexamita? What did you try? Please be specific .

al

[DONTKNOWYET]

Thanks Al.

Yes, I know, the picture isn't showing anything much.
I treated with medicated food for 5 days. New life spectrum hex shield. I've had fish with hexamita before over the years and I sort of know how it develops in the fish I have and have treated it successfully with just Epsom salt soaked food even in very emaciated fish but can't remember any fish flashing like this before when they had hex.

There are clown loaches, corys and livebearers in the tank and a few ottos. They all appear healthy but I know something isn't on because they never flashed before. And the stringy poop from the livebearers can't be normal for such a long time.

The poop is not always white and stringy. Sometimes it's half normal, half white. Sometimes I've seen a very thin hair like poop from a fish almost transparent with round egg like things a few mm apart attached to it looking like a pearl necklace. All from the livebearers as I can't see the bottom feeder's poop at all. I don't think they have stringy poop.
But the bottom feeders are the ones flashing occassionally, not the livebearers. I've had most of these fish for several years except for a few otocinclus I've added a couple of years ago but they are all alive and seemingly healthy though they flashed too recently.

After the medicated food I also treated with fluke solve for two full weeks in case it's flukes or some gill parasite prazi could help with and only because it's safe for the bunch, but then again where would they get flukes from considering there are no new fish....So I think it must be a pathogenic parasite that lives in the tank or something they got from the frozen food and I can almost put the time frame for the symptoms since I started feeding those 2-3 months ago.

I've been doing large water changes in the hope it's something with the water quality but this is not helping either with the flashing or the white poop. I've always done regular large water changes on the tank, about 2x60% weekly as it's easy via a python. Unless there's something in the tap water lately....

My other thought is to treat with something like kusuri wormer plus for nematodes or similar but I don't know if it's safe for my fish as right now it's not urgent, and the stuff in the poop doesn't look like worms at all that I've seen online at least. The parasites from the picture are small, elongated sort of like oval shape, and it's buzzing around like many of the common microscope videos I've seen for hexamita but not exactly. I don't think it was spiriling either when moving. But then again the microscope couldn't make up the shape of them at all.

I also tested the water, it's the usual 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites. The nitrates I can't tell because the tests are unreliable. I am pretty certain they are low considering the amount of water changes I do, and have done so diligently for years. Plus I know by my plants as I have had to add nitrates for deficiencies. I haven't had disease outbreaks in this tank before. The occasional livebearer have perished here and there but I didn't take any notice if it's a single death without symptoms. Otherwise majority of fish are the original stocking.

The tank has sand bottom, a bit of driftwood, a few plants and a few emergent plants to help with water quality additionally, and is well overfiltered. For a long time I thought the fish were happy in there but maybe not.....

[brewmaster15]

Tough call, assuming the metro in the hex shield was good...5 days if they are eating should have at least knocked out symptoms of Hex,.. same for your treatment of Flukes with the flashing. .I'm wondering if your problem in that tank is bacterial. It could account for both the feces issues and the flashing.

Substrate tank?

what have you been feeding since the issues started?

al

[DONTKNOWYET]

I normally feed just dry food which consists of New life spectrum pellets, spirulina pellets, algae wafers, etc..
Then I thought I was depriving my fish from the real thing so I got frozen prawns, blood worms, mussels, red plankton and that's all the changes I've done.
Maybe it's bacterial but they really aren't having any external symptoms and I thought bacteria would act faster.

Just now I took the chance of a really odd looking poop one fish passed. I took a macro picture with my camera of it and there are some really strange things inside the poop. What do you think?

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p706/Snezz/Poop1_zpshn1nbjem.jpg

[DONTKNOWYET]

Here it is the same one cropped for better view. What the hell is this? The fish is a platy.

http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p706/Snezz/Poop2_zps9wzbqgu0.jpg

[DONTKNOWYET]

Substrate tank?

Yes, sand tank.

[brewmaster15]

Could be worm eggs, possibly capillaria. Under a microscope see if there looks to be barrel shaped eggs.

al

[DONTKNOWYET]

Thank you for your help. That poop looks disgusting.

I am going to have to get back the microscope. I don't have it now so this poop went into the bin.
I'll try to get a video with my camera next time of what I see.

Would the fish flash if they have capillaria worms or the likes? And is it possible they got it from food? Or could they have had it for all these years unnoticed?

[brewmaster15]

Capillaria doesnt make them flash, but bacterial can... thats why I suggested a bacterial infection as it could account for the feces and flashing. However, theres nothing we know yet that really points to the flashing and feces issues being related...They may be, but may not be also...

when you get your microscope back, maybe a look at the gills is in order...don't know if you are up sacrificing one, but you may be able to take a gill clip.

al

[100fuegos]

two and a half year ago I had a nasty capillaria outbreak coming from frozen blood worms. Confirmed with a microscope. In my own experience capillaria will put the fish out of food almost right away and waste away quick but not flashing at all, if anything the other way around they will look lifeless.

Capillaria is easily recognised by the barrel shape eggs in feces when looking under a microscope. In my case kusuri wormer plus took care of them but two fish never recovered and had to be culled.

[DONTKNOWYET]

Thanks 100fuegos.
Mine are eating just fine, like pigs and it hasn't affected their appetite. And are quite lively and normal besides flicking around.
I am sure there was no barrel shaped eggs in the sample I managed to look at. And the sample had to be magnified to find those "buzzing" tiny creatures otherwise at lower magnification you could think your eyes are playing tricks on you with the light and there was nothing else odd in there. So they are small whatever they are. But I must look again and the sample was taken after the prazi and hex treatment. The buzzing creatures were around the poop, in the clear side(possibly the stringy part) of the poop rather than in the brown part. There was nothing inside the brown poop at all. Maybe the small thing were from the tank water itself that had soaked into the poop and were some normal little things always present in tank water?....I did take the sample straight from the fish as it was trailing but obviously it still got tank water on it.
I do have kanamycin sulphate on hand but don't want to use it until I am sure it's not parasites.
Also, I read that prazi does have some effect on capillaria worm although it doesn't treat nematodes generally. Maybe it cleared some worms after the treatment but not all so I wasn't able to see anything from the poop?... They did seem livelier after the first doze and the corys spawned the next day and the clown loaches were out playing happily so I thought it did help some....but they are still flashing even after two full weeks, re-dosing each time at a water change to keep the meds and even once I overdosed by accident and only thought of it after. I even think they are flashing even more now.

If it's a bacteria infection, it's very slow to progress. Maybe the fish are fighting it off somehow for the time being.
I'll have a chance next week to look at more samples and I'll try taking more and look properly for other odd objects. If it needs be, a livebearer will be sacrificed...I hate doing this..

Also, another thought about the poop on the picture above. Is it possible the fish expelled some "fry" it couldn't give birth to, like an abortion? Maybe affected by the sickness or the prolonged treatment? These were big enough to be taken by a normal camera with a bit of zoom....

[DONTKNOWYET]

Sorry for the long posts. I am worried about them. I don't want to lose them after looking after them for so many years.

[jimg]

They swarm and jitter around very fast they are flagellates (spiro?)

[DONTKNOWYET]

I saw spironucleus videos on youtube. It looks similar but not quite. But then again, it could be as I am a complete newb in that sort of thing.
I just checked what the microscope we used was. It's a brunel SP20. We had to go higher magnification to see those things. I am not 100% sure what lense we used to finally see them better on the video. The picture is poor I know.

Today I looked at a platy and it seemed to me her back was sort of "milky" looking, just tiny bit. So I remembered about costia causing that and checked youtube videos of the parasite. My friend who saw the parasites says it looks a lot like them by the way they move. But then again why would costia be in the gut via fish poop? Can that be a possible cause?

That kind of resembles what I saw but mine couldn't be seen as clearly and wasn't so magnified. I am totally useless of using a microscope yet...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqD9F81wqdo