Getting Into Discus,

[AquaAlex]

Hello. I am thinking about converting my 120 gallon Oscar tank into a 120 gallon Discus tank. I've been in the hobby for over 13 years and always wanted discus but was too intimidated to try them but a friend of mine got them and is doing fine with them. So, I'm really think I am going to make my 120 gallon display into discus with driftwood and plastic plants.
First question: How many discus can I fit in a 120 with a small school of rummynose tetras or some sort of tetra and a few fancy plecos? What are some good tetra ideas? Are hatchet fish good discus tankmates?
Second question: A person from a facebook group said 4'' or bigger is the best size to start with. is this true?
Third Question: Is it true that the tank raised varieties can adapt to water of 78-82 and ph in the 6.8-7.4 range?
I am going to be getting my discus from Discus Hans and am thinking about getting some nice ones. What are some good reccomendations? I like the turquoise, and pigeon blood, but I want one that resembles wild but is tank raised.
My friend said my 120 would make a nice discus tank and I think it could too.

[ESXiGuy]

1.) With your load, I am thinking 8.
2.) Best size is go all in with 6". Unless you are extremely diligent with water changes and feeding it will be hard to get the 4" up to that point.
3.) Yes, the main idea is to keep it stable with whatever your tap is. Don't try to fix the tap water with chemicals unless its just to get rid of chlorine. Temp wise, Kenny from Kenny's Discus recommends 86-87. I would not try to accommodate other fish's range. Discus first and always especially if you will be close to spending 1 grand from a reputable SimplyDiscus sponsor. If you parameters are significantly different in the PH side, you need to slow acclimate.

[Quintin]

AquaAlex send your message as it stands to hans he will be more than willing to give you advice with his fish regarding the questions asked as all breeders raise their discus in differant setups.Hans is a friendly guy always willing to help

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Alex and welcome to Simply. We generally recommend 10 gallons per discus but less if other tankmates are present. Personally I do not stock my tanks to the max but prefer to give the fish a little wiggle room. For someone starting new with discus it is generally best to start with sub adults or larger in the 4/5 inch or larger size. You will find domestic discus are adaptable to a wide range of water conditions so I would not be to concerned about that.

I would suggest doing some reading in the beginner section of the forum starting with this guide Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus).
Pat

[AquaAlex]

1.) With your load, I am thinking 8.
2.) Best size is go all in with 6". Unless you are extremely diligent with water changes and feeding it will be hard to get the 4" up to that point.
3.) Yes, the main idea is to keep it stable with whatever your tap is. Don't try to fix the tap water with chemicals unless its just to get rid of chlorine. Temp wise, Kenny from Kenny's Discus recommends 86-87. I would not try to accommodate other fish's range. Discus first and always especially if you will be close to spending 1 grand from a reputable SimplyDiscus sponsor. If you parameters are significantly different in the PH side, you need to slow acclimate.
Thank you for your information. I do plan on doing 2-3 water changes a week. Feeding I will be making homemade food for a fellow discus breeder I become friends with.


AquaAlex send your message as it stands to hans he will be more than willing to give you advice with his fish regarding the questions asked as all breeders raise their discus in differant setups.Hans is a friendly guy always willing to help
Awesome I will ask questions to him too.


Hi Alex and welcome to Simply. We generally recommend 10 gallons per discus but less if other tankmates are present. Personally I do not stock my tanks to the max but prefer to give the fish a little wiggle room. For someone starting new with discus it is generally best to start with sub adults or larger in the 4/5 inch or larger size. You will find domestic discus are adaptable to a wide range of water conditions so I would not be to concerned about that.

I would suggest doing some reading in the beginner section of the forum starting with this guide Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus).
Pat
Thank you so much! The information was awesome!!!!
Now, I have a few questions.
1.) Are HOB filters good for discus? I have 2 right now and want to add maybe a canister.
2.) What are some of the most colorful discus?

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Alex,

A 120 is pretty awesome for a discus tank! Then again, I might be biased. LOL (I have a 120 tall)

I can tell you that 9 discus in a 120 definitely works, even with a fairly large school of tetra's and some sterbai cories, but it does require more water changes. I aim for LARGE daily water changes when I'm growing them out and then cut back to every other day once they reach 6-7". They continue growing for about 18 months.

How to grow out and maintain discus in a 120 tank with the greatest chance of success. (and the greatest chance of growing some jumbo discus - bonus!)

1) Temps at 82F

2) Either paint the bottom of the tank white and don't add sand (easiest method) or add a small layer of pool sand and only one or two small, easy to move, pieces of driftwood. No plants! This is for the first 18 months.

3) Make it easy to change 80-90% of the water once a day. Tap water is fine so long as the pH is between 6.0 - 8.4. Just keep it consistent and they'll do fine. I use a Python siphon and run it out to my garden to drain the tank, then refill from my tap and add a 1/2 teaspoon of Safe directly to the tank as the water refills. Quick, easy, efficient.

4) Buy 4" discus in one group, all at the same time. For a tank that large, you might be able to get away with 3" discus, but it's going to be much riskier as far as growth goes.

5) No matter how tempted you are to add plants and lots of cool decor, resist the urge. Your new discus will have been born and raised in bare tanks and will not care about decor. In fact, they will probably hide behind it and take a long time to get comfortable being around you. With a bare bottom or nearly bare tank, they will quickly adjust to you, your movements around them and all the water changes and soon will be eating out of your hand!

6) Buy a wide variety of high quality, high protein foods for them. When they are 4" - 6" I like feeding them frozen beefheart twice a day, Al's FDBW's 2-3 times per day and a mix of Discus Flakes (OSI, Cobalt and some Spirulina Flakes - all mixed together in a big jar) twice a day.

7) Use pre-filters on the intakes of your filters! Rinse them in tap water during each water change. They will stop food from rotting in your filters and your discus will thank you for it.

8) Don't add a lot of filter "extras" to the filtration system. Simple is best! You can use a couple of large sponge filters, use HOB filters with simple foam or bio-ball type media, or even use a canister filter with lots of bio media and a layer of foam. Though canisters are harder to keep clean in my experience. Sumps are pretty great too!

9) No need for carbon, peat moss, uv sterilizers or any of the other stuff that you see advertised everywhere. Keep it simple and easy to maintain.

10) If you decide to feed them beefheart (only for young discus, not needed for adults) be sure to only feed it an hour or two before your daily water change. I fed mine at 5pm and a second feeding at 7pm, then did my water change at 8pm, making sure to thoroughly vacuum up any leftover bits of beefheart from the bottom. And that's why you don't want plants or lots of driftwood! The beefheart and other foods will hide under the decor and in the plants and will rot and foul the water very quickly.


That's a long list of stuff, but when you break it down it really consists of just 3 things: Lots of clean water, lots of good foods and consistency throughout the growth period.

Most people don't like the idea of a bare bottom tank, but remember that it's only while you are growing out your discus. Once they've reached adult sizes you can rescape the tank! I've never had pleco's in my tank. There's never any algae for them to eat. Corydora catfish are awesome though and fun to watch. They'll eat most of the bit of food that drift to the bottom, so they help in keeping the tank clean between water changes.

If you want to make things as easy as possible on yourself, plan to only buy eight 4" discus, a school of up to 30 tetras and 6 cories. If you buy from different sources you'll need to QT the tetra's and cories!

You can find in depth info on how to test your tap water, how to QT and much much more by clicking on the link that Pat Husband provided.

Hope all this helps and doesn't scare you away. I was a total newbie to discus 5 years ago and scared to take the plunge but SO happy that I did!

[discuspaul]

Toni's advice above is exceptionally sound - you'd do well to follow it closely.

[AquaAlex]

Hi Alex,

A 120 is pretty awesome for a discus tank! Then again, I might be biased. LOL (I have a 120 tall)

I can tell you that 9 discus in a 120 definitely works, even with a fairly large school of tetra's and some sterbai cories, but it does require more water changes. I aim for LARGE daily water changes when I'm growing them out and then cut back to every other day once they reach 6-7". They continue growing for about 18 months.

How to grow out and maintain discus in a 120 tank with the greatest chance of success. (and the greatest chance of growing some jumbo discus - bonus!)

1) Temps at 82F

2) Either paint the bottom of the tank white and don't add sand (easiest method) or add a small layer of pool sand and only one or two small, easy to move, pieces of driftwood. No plants! This is for the first 18 months.

3) Make it easy to change 80-90% of the water once a day. Tap water is fine so long as the pH is between 6.0 - 8.4. Just keep it consistent and they'll do fine. I use a Python siphon and run it out to my garden to drain the tank, then refill from my tap and add a 1/2 teaspoon of Safe directly to the tank as the water refills. Quick, easy, efficient.

4) Buy 4" discus in one group, all at the same time. For a tank that large, you might be able to get away with 3" discus, but it's going to be much riskier as far as growth goes.

5) No matter how tempted you are to add plants and lots of cool decor, resist the urge. Your new discus will have been born and raised in bare tanks and will not care about decor. In fact, they will probably hide behind it and take a long time to get comfortable being around you. With a bare bottom or nearly bare tank, they will quickly adjust to you, your movements around them and all the water changes and soon will be eating out of your hand!

6) Buy a wide variety of high quality, high protein foods for them. When they are 4" - 6" I like feeding them frozen beefheart twice a day, Al's FDBW's 2-3 times per day and a mix of Discus Flakes (OSI, Cobalt and some Spirulina Flakes - all mixed together in a big jar) twice a day.

7) Use pre-filters on the intakes of your filters! Rinse them in tap water during each water change. They will stop food from rotting in your filters and your discus will thank you for it.

8) Don't add a lot of filter "extras" to the filtration system. Simple is best! You can use a couple of large sponge filters, use HOB filters with simple foam or bio-ball type media, or even use a canister filter with lots of bio media and a layer of foam. Though canisters are harder to keep clean in my experience. Sumps are pretty great too!

9) No need for carbon, peat moss, uv sterilizers or any of the other stuff that you see advertised everywhere. Keep it simple and easy to maintain.

10) If you decide to feed them beefheart (only for young discus, not needed for adults) be sure to only feed it an hour or two before your daily water change. I fed mine at 5pm and a second feeding at 7pm, then did my water change at 8pm, making sure to thoroughly vacuum up any leftover bits of beefheart from the bottom. And that's why you don't want plants or lots of driftwood! The beefheart and other foods will hide under the decor and in the plants and will rot and foul the water very quickly.


That's a long list of stuff, but when you break it down it really consists of just 3 things: Lots of clean water, lots of good foods and consistency throughout the growth period.

Most people don't like the idea of a bare bottom tank, but remember that it's only while you are growing out your discus. Once they've reached adult sizes you can rescape the tank! I've never had pleco's in my tank. There's never any algae for them to eat. Corydora catfish are awesome though and fun to watch. They'll eat most of the bit of food that drift to the bottom, so they help in keeping the tank clean between water changes.

If you want to make things as easy as possible on yourself, plan to only buy eight 4" discus, a school of up to 30 tetras and 6 cories. If you buy from different sources you'll need to QT the tetra's and cories!

You can find in depth info on how to test your tap water, how to QT and much much more by clicking on the link that Pat Husband provided.

Hope all this helps and doesn't scare you away. I was a total newbie to discus 5 years ago and scared to take the plunge but SO happy that I did!

Wow! Awesome info! It looks awesome! So I will get about 8-9 4-5'' discus and do plenty of water changes and add a few pieces of driftwood. I like doing water changes how is 2-4 30-40 percent water changes a week? Tankmates I'm thinking maybe 1 angel I have, some hatchet fish, and rummynoses and my 2 L128 plecos.

[DonMD]

There's a lot of very good advice here. You may also profit from reading www.discustoday.info, a web page built by Al, the owner of this forum. Cheers.

[strawberryblonde]

Wow! Awesome info! It looks awesome! So I will get about 8-9 4-5'' discus and do plenty of water changes and add a few pieces of driftwood. I like doing water changes how is 2-4 30-40 percent water changes a week? Tankmates I'm thinking maybe 1 angel I have, some hatchet fish, and rummynoses and my 2 L128 plecos.

The size you're planning to get is perfect and so is the number of them. Water changes - must love them more! LOL

We're talking about daily water changes till they're full grown. I aim for 90% daily till they reach 6" then back off to either a smaller change (more in the 70% range daily) or every other day 90%. It depends on my schedule which way I go with it. On Sunday I commit to doing a deep clean, including a rinse of my filter media, a total scrub of the tank walls and a thorough cleaning of any driftwood and/or sand in the tank. I also wipe down the heater and intake tubes on Sunday's.

Once they're over 7" or 18 months old, I do every other day water changes of about 60 percent and still do my big Sunday cleaning.

The angelfish might be ok, or might not be. Some manage to integrate the two species and others have issues with them. Not so sure about the hatchet fish. I owned some decades ago and it seems like they were fin nippers? Nippers aren't good mates for a discus tank - discus are slow movers and easy prey. =)

You can definitely try out the pleco's for now, but remember to feed them since they won't be finding much algae to munch on. They also are big poopers, so don't be shocked if you decide to move them to a new home after a couple of months. Or maybe they'll be awesome and work for you!

Oh and just be super careful with the QT process. You'll need to choose one hero discus who can go live with all the other tank mates that you have for 6 weeks. If he gets sick at least it will only be one discus and not the whole tank!

[Moon]

Good luck with your start up. You have some very good advice here. Just a work about tank mates. Some Tetras and Corys cannot handle the warm temps needed for discus. Do your research on this topic. For example neon tetras will not live long in a discus tank. Some corys like julies are temp sensitive. Hatchet fish are jumpers. The tank needs to be covered.

[AquaAlex]

Asian Discus vs German Discus...
What is the P.H. Range for asian discus? I have a ph of 6.8-7.2. will that work for asian?
Which should I stick with?

[discuspaul]

pH for discus-keeping is not particularly important so long as it is maintained, and remains, fairly stable ( i.e. is not subject to large, rapidly occurring swings). Discus can do well in steady pH of less than 6.0 to over 8.0.

Your stated range of between 6.8 -7.2 is excellent, and if it fluctuates between those 2 levels over the course of a day, or overnite, or with a water change, e.g. from tap to tank, you have nothing to be concerned about, and there's no need to try and alter it in any way in an effort to try to maintain it at a specific level.

[rickztahone]

Good luck with your start up. You have some very good advice here. Just a work about tank mates. Some Tetras and Corys cannot handle the warm temps needed for discus. Do your research on this topic. For example neon tetras will not live long in a discus tank. Some corys like julies are temp sensitive. Hatchet fish are jumpers. The tank needs to be covered.

Sorry to go OT OP, but great to see you back Moon :)

OP, welcome to the forum. Some great advice being given so far. As so many have been saying, water changes are crucial for discus raising. pH ranges aren't that imporant. What is more important is that your pH is stable. You check if your pH is stable by taking a sample of your local tap water. Place it in a bucket with air from an air pump and test it 24hrs later. If it is the same, you are good to go.