Apistogramma Agassizi Pair

[Second Hand Pat]

I recently acquired an pair of Apistogramma agassizi "Cuipeua" from Mark (DiscusOrigins) and currently have them in a QT with only a few caves and IALs. It only took a few days for the female to select one of the caves as her own and then she started to active chase the male and wiggling her little tail at him. At first he seemed unsettled but the last day or so he has been occupying the cave with her so feel they could be close to a spawn. Here's a picture of the pair.

88903

As you can see the female is quite yellow which I understand means she is ready to spawn. I do not believe they have spawned yet but any information on what to expect once they spawn would be helpful especially requiring separating one or more of the parents, parental fry care etc.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Also I have been feeding live red wigglers and live white worms to help condition them and the TDS is a bit high at 95. I can easily drop down to the 60s which is what Mark recommended for breeding.
Pat

[rickztahone]

I don't have an answer to your question, but nice looking pair you have there.

[richgrenfell]

Hi Pat! Lovely fish you have there. I bought some apistos from Mark last year myself! Here is a link to an article on apistos that I wrote quite some time ago: http://aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Grenfell_Apistogramma.html give it a look, as it is what I generally do with most apisto species. I have been working with them for a long time, they are my passion! Any questions you may have just ask!

[Second Hand Pat]

I don't have an answer to your question, but nice looking pair you have there.

Thanks Ricardo :)

[richgrenfell]

Being that your female is actively coloring up, and engaging the male. I'd leave em' be. Aggies are one of the easy spawners in my experience. One thing about aggie females, is that they can be real terrors once they have eggs, so keep an eye one her! Good food and good water, the fish will do the rest!

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Pat! Lovely fish you have there. I bought some apistos from Mark last year myself! Here is a link to an article on apistos that I wrote quite some time ago: http://aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Grenfell_Apistogramma.html give it a look, as it is what I generally do with most apisto species. I have been working with them for a long time, they are my passion! Any questions you may have just ask!

Hi Rich and thank you. I will definitely read your article and will post questions here if you do not mind.:D I will take a little video of the pair to see if I am interpreting the behaviors correct.
Pat

[richgrenfell]

Hi Rich and thank you. I will definitely read your article and will post questions here if you do not mind.:D I will take a little video of the pair to see if I am interpreting the behaviors correct.
Pat

Definitely post anything you like! I'll be watching! Be sure and let me know when you have fry, i'll do the same. I have some njisseni set up at the moment.

[Second Hand Pat]

Rich, I looked up the njisseni and they are quite attactive, care to post some pictures? You will be the first to know when I have fry LOL. I am uploading some videos now.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Rich, I am reading your article and these guys currently in a 10 gallon tank. The pair for the most part seem to be fairly compatible with no real aggression. You mention that a 10 may work for some pairs. What signs should I watch for to indicate the 10 maybe too small? Also are plants needed or is a simple bio-tope (sand with a bit of wood, leaves etc) ok?
Pat

[richgrenfell]

I have found that a 10 is a bit too small. The territory is just too small, and the females tend to get aggressive with aggies. What you can do, is take the male out when you are sure you have a spawn. Or you you can move them to a larger tank, as it shouldn't take too long to get them interested again. Your water parameters seem fine to me. The TDS isn't really that high. Anything less than 100 has always been OK for me with a few species as exceptions. Java moss and water sprite is something I have always used in my apisto tanks. If your fish are not skittish, and are secure in the environment that you have provided, then I wouldn't change it. There are apisto keepers out there that don't even use sand. At this point, let's just see what happens.

[richgrenfell]

Here is my njisseni male

[richgrenfell]

The female files are too large for the forum. I forget what the max size is.

[Second Hand Pat]

The female files are too large for the forum. I forget what the max size is.

He is a beauty Rich, size is 2MB on the file uploads.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

The female is rather interested in the top of the sponge filter. I hope she is not considering that for a spawning site. So I think the female is ready and the male is not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTVJY-9zgeQ&feature=youtu.be

[richgrenfell]

You are correct. The male isn't interested an the moment! No ceiling on the inside of the filter, so probably not, but you never know!

[Second Hand Pat]

You are correct. The male isn't interested an the moment! No ceiling on the inside of the filter, so probably not, but you never know!

Thanks Rich and this vid just confirms it more so we wait.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4MQGV8nGkE4

[richgrenfell]

LOL!, yeah he's definitely not interested!

[Second Hand Pat]

LOL!, yeah he's definitely not interested!

Rich, in the time Mark had these two he mentioned the male grew alot so makes me think the male could still be young. Now I do have a male from the Alenquer pair. I lost the female on that pair to the overflow :(
Pat

[richgrenfell]

Rich, in the time Mark had these two he mentioned the male grew alot so makes me think the male could still be young. Now I do have a male from the Alenquer pair. I lost the female on that pair to the overflow :(
Pat

That sucks! Sucks to lose the fish, and apistos are not cheap either!

[richgrenfell]

And yeah, the male is probably just young. Good food, and good water, and they will spawn for you. Again, keep me in mind, the blue aggies are my faves!

[brewmaster15]

Pat,
What ever Rich says with Apistos is gospel in my book.:)

al

[richgrenfell]

Pat,
What ever Rich says with Apistos is gospel in my book.:)

al

Awwwww....ya big sweet talker! LOL!

[Second Hand Pat]

Agreed Al, Rich is definitely very helpful and I appreciate that. :D

and Rich, you are welcome to all the fry you want if I can get there. But I am confident that I will.

[richgrenfell]

You are a successful discus keeper sweetheart. Which means that you are particular about your fish's water quality and diet. You will be just fine.

[Second Hand Pat]

You are a successful discus keeper sweetheart. Which means that you are particular about your fish's water quality and diet. You will be just fine.

Agreed Rich, if the wild discus breed for me the apistos don't stand a chance :D

[richgrenfell]

Agreed Rich, if the wild discus breed for me the apistos don't stand a chance :D

atta girl!

[Second Hand Pat]

atta girl!

:thumbsup:

[Ryan]

Considering they weren't imported too long ago it may just be taking him a little bit to settle in. It's good that the female seems comfortable.

I'd say you know you have eggs when she doesn't venture too far from the cave. ;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Considering they weren't imported too long ago it may just be taking him a little bit to settle in. It's good that the female seems comfortable.

I'd say you know you have eggs when she doesn't venture too far from the cave. ;)

The female is a little character and rather bossy with the male. She counts him and he ignores her so she nips him. Funny but hope it is not causing him any stress. The small tank might be a factor in this also. And you are right Ryan, Rich's article mentioned that being the case.

[Ryan]

Get them in that 20 long or 40 breeder. It'll help a bit with the bossiness. She may not be less bossy, but he'll have somewhere to take cover if she's pestering him.

[Second Hand Pat]

Get them in that 20 long or 40 breeder. It'll help a bit with the bossiness. She may not be less bossy, but he'll have somewhere to take cover if she's pestering him.

Yea I will be making that happen pretty soon.

[richgrenfell]

I didn't know you had bigger quarters available. I agree, the 40B would do wonders. I have my njisseni in a 40 long

[Second Hand Pat]

I didn't know you had bigger quarters available. I agree, the 40B would do wonders. I have my njisseni in a 40 long

I will have a 40b available but need to move some fish around. I will make that happen soon. :)

[richgrenfell]

Being that you are changing the tank, some fine sand on the bottom would be good too!

[Second Hand Pat]

Being that you are changing the tank, some fine sand on the bottom would be good too!

I was planning on that Rich and will add some wood and leaf litter. Do you find that there is a cave preferance?

[richgrenfell]

I tend to give them several to choose from, and let them figure it out themselves.

[Second Hand Pat]

Rich, we have fry...uploading video now. What's next? BBS?

[Second Hand Pat]

Seems like they are about to go free swimming?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27tuiHmWY0E

[rickztahone]

So if you are an amazing gardener, they refer to you as a "green thumb". What would they call you with your ability to pretty much raise/breed ANY type of fish Pat? Wet thumb? :)

So awesome. Good luck with the spawn.

[Second Hand Pat]

So if you are an amazing gardener, they refer to you as a "green thumb". What would they call you with your ability to pretty much raise/breed ANY type of fish Pat? Wet thumb? :)

So awesome. Good luck with the spawn.

We are getting ahead of ourselves Ricardo. This was totally unexpected. :o

[rickztahone]

We are getting ahead of ourselves Ricardo. This was totally unexpected. :o

still, they spawned! Not many can say that right off the bat like you! You have that magic touch!

[Second Hand Pat]

still, they spawned! Not many can say that right off the bat like you! You have that magic touch!

Thanks Ricardo, I think Ryan has pretty good luck with this sort of thing but I am still pretty excited :D
Pat

[Pardal]

Pat
I guess this proves that when fish are provide with optimal conditions they thrive and course reproduce.
And that is what your TLC gave them:o.
Keep us posted.
Julian

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat
I guess this proves that when fish are provide with optimal conditions they thrive and course reproduce.
And that is what your TLC gave them:o.
Keep us posted.
Julian

Thanks Julian and well do. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I have been target feeding these little guys today small amounts of live BBS. The fry seem to have nice, round bellies but not sure if that is yolk or BBS.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXp8m1C4WLY&feature=youtu.be

[jmf3460]

wow pat you are the fish whisperer, you need your own tv show. congrats, will you be selling these once they grow out? if so I would love a pair.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Jacklyn but really the fish get all the credit. :) Mark was holding them for me while I was on my Maryland trip and Mark said they were ready to spawn. He was right!
Pat

[Kirbs]

How exciting! Congrats Pat!

[Second Hand Pat]

How exciting! Congrats Pat!

Thanks Kirby :)

[richgrenfell]

I told you it wouldn't be a problem! Way to go, and put me on the fry list please!

[Second Hand Pat]

I told you it wouldn't be a problem! Way to go, and put me on the fry list please!

You got it Rich and funny that they had already spawned when we were talking about the male being immature.
Pat

[richgrenfell]

How is the male making out? is he still in there?

[Second Hand Pat]

How is the male making out? is he still in there?

Yup, he is just hanging out. The female does not want him to close but he will get between me and the female/fry when I stick a lens up to the glass so tells me he is in defending mode. I am keeping a eye of them.

[strawberryblonde]

It's so great to see pics and video's of these little bugger Pat! When you told me there were a few, I pictured 5 or 6 wee fry, not a whole group!

Good job woman - wish I had your wet thumb. =)

[Second Hand Pat]

It's so great to see pics and video's of these little bugger Pat! When you told me there were a few, I pictured 5 or 6 wee fry, not a whole group!

Good job woman - wish I had your wet thumb. =)

Thanks Toni, I think there about 20 or so fry. They seem to be eating as they swarm up a bit when I add a cloud of bbs over them. I will be glad when they are a wee bigger so the camcorder can actually pick up details.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys seem a bit bigger and definitely more active.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hH9FzXzWVLk

[Rudustin]

Pat, Wow they look great and there are so many!!!! They are growing fast!!! Congrats. Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, Wow they look great and there are so many!!!! They are growing fast!!! Congrats. Rufus

Thanks Rufus, they were probably more than I think and according to Ryan, they grow pretty darn fast. :)
Pat

[Rudustin]

It looks like there are a lot of them! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

It looks like there are a lot of them! Rufus

Here's your chance to count them Rufus. While doing WCs tonight I turned the light out over the pairs tank and mom and fry collected up headed to the top of the sponge filter. She bedded them along the top of the sponge and pretty sure that is where they will spend the night. Interesting behavior.

Bad phone picture.
88980

[Rudustin]

Here's your chance to count them Rufus. While doing WCs tonight I turned the light out over the pairs tank and mom and fry collected up headed to the top of the sponge filter. She bedded them along the top of the sponge and pretty sure that is where they will spend the night. Interesting behavior.

Bad phone picture.
88980Pat, there are at least forty in the picture. That's quite a large brood! So cool!!! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, there are at least forty in the picture. That's quite a large brood! So cool!!! Rufus

I think so too Rufus and think it's closer to 50. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I am really enjoying this pair with their fry. The parents are excellent. I have upped the WCs to daily. You can almost see the fry in the video. Maybe next time they will be big enough to see clearly in the vid. Dad is protecting his family from that nasty camera. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-0YptJtQyE

[Rudustin]

I am really enjoying this pair with their fry. The parents are excellence. I have upped the WCs to daily. You can almost see the fry in the video. Maybe next time they will be big enough to see clearly in the vid. Dad is protecting his family from that nasty camera. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-0YptJtQyEPat I can see them very well!!! Really wonderful to see. Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat I can see them very well!!! Really wonderful to see. Rufus

Agreed Rufus, pretty cool to see some details on these little ones.
Pat

[Rudustin]

Agreed Rufus, pretty cool to see some details on these little ones.
Pat

Pat, what are you going to do with fifty or so fish grand children??? I hope that a few may be for sale when they mature. I want to be on the list for adoption. I have a very good home for them. LOL! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Rufus, you are the fourth person who wants some. I have shipping bags on the way and having Ryan walk me thru the process. :)
Pat

[Rudustin]

Rufus, you are the fourth person who wants some. I have shipping bags on the way and having Ryan walk me thru the process. :)
Pat
Okay I'll be waiting. Fourth on the list isn't too bad! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Okay I'll be waiting. Fourth on the list isn't too bad! Rufus

:)

[Second Hand Pat]

Interesting little behavior...in one of the previous video I watched the female actually go down into the center of the filter. I suspected she was taking the brood in there for the night. Sure enough with the moonlights on I watched the brood follow her to the top of the filter. She caught the fry one by one and stowed them in the center of the filter. Cool stuff.
Pat

[richgrenfell]

Apistos are well known for their stellar parental behavior!

[Second Hand Pat]

Apistos are well known for their stellar parental behavior!

They really are Rich and the fry are doing well. There's about 50.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

You can really start to see the detail in the fry.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0FRNmWU6TY

[Rudustin]

Pat, They are so cool!!! Mommy is very protective! Remember to save me some. Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, They are so cool!!! Mommy is very protective! Remember to save me some. Rufus

np Rufus :)

[Ardan]

Very Cool Pat! Congratulations. Those are beautiful, love the yellow:)
Ardan

[Second Hand Pat]

Very Cool Pat! Congratulations. Those are beautiful, love the yellow:)
Ardan

Thanks Ardan, I will admit to getting a lot of joy watching this little mom tend her brood. :D
Pat

[jmf3460]

looking good Pat. I also like the yellow of the female right now really makes her look wild, and it looks really good with the tannins. im keeping special watch on this thread. I have heard that apistos are easy to breed, and even easier than rams, but these being wild maybe they will only breed in your water that has low tds and ph??

[Second Hand Pat]

looking good Pat. I also like the yellow of the female right now really makes her look wild, and it looks really good with the tannins. im keeping special watch on this thread. I have heard that apistos are easy to breed, and even easier than rams, but these being wild maybe they will only breed in your water that has low tds and ph??

Thanks Jacklyn, not sure how easy they are to breed. I wasn't really trying at the time and they spawned before I knew it. The water has a TDS between 50 and 70 and the ph between the very low 7s to 6.8. I have not measured in a while. :o
Pat

[Ryan]

There are so many Apistos and they come from all types of water across South America. The best thing to do is research the species you're interested in to see what their spawning difficulty is like. A. agassizii are known to be one of the easiest spawners. However, the soft water definitely is a catalyst. They may not have been as willing in tap.

Next thing you know Pat will have a bunch of racks of 20 gallon tanks, breeding all sorts of Apistos.

[Second Hand Pat]

There are so many Apistos and they come from all types of water across South America. The best thing to do is research the species you're interested in to see what their spawning difficulty is like. A. agassizii are known to be one of the easiest spawners. However, the soft water definitely is a catalyst. They may not have been as willing in tap.

Next thing you know Pat will have a bunch of racks of 20 gallon tanks, breeding all sorts of Apistos.

Could be Ryan. I have seen some others that look darn cool. Just lacking in the outlet department :(
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Rich, if you see this when should I consider separating the fry? I mentioned to hubby that I would be needing another small tank and he reminded me that we have a spare 25 gallon. It's a bit tall but should work.
Pat

[richgrenfell]

I usually separate at two weeks post free swimming. it's usually easier to remove the parents to another tank.

[Second Hand Pat]

I usually separate at two weeks post free swimming. it's usually easier to remove the parents to another tank.

Thanks Rich :) and I can see why it is easier to remove the parents.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These guys are all over the place and they are big enough such you can see them.


https://www.youtube.com/audio?feature=vm&v=nnD8uzXCPDY

[jmf3460]

looking good pat, they grow so quickly. better watch out, before you know it you will have another spawn on your hands.

[Second Hand Pat]

looking good pat, they grow so quickly. better watch out, before you know it you will have another spawn on your hands.

Yea that is what's worrying me. I want the female to rest. She has been a rather busy mom but couldn't ask for a nicer pair parent wise.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Moved the whole family today and dad went right into courtship mode. I didn't realize how pretty he really is under a more natural light. He has settled since I made this video but may move him back to the old tank.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uT4hQAmsIEU

[rickztahone]

How'd you catch that whole brood?

[Second Hand Pat]

Started with a small net catching one or two at a time and then went to the big net and caught most of them. :D

[rickztahone]

Started with a small net catching one or two at a time and then went to the big net and caught most of them. :D

:laugh: I can so picture this. When Al was catching the small 1"ers from the 20g tank, it seemed a tall task, I can only imagine the fun scooping the fam out of this tank was :).

[Second Hand Pat]

:laugh: I can so picture this. When Al was catching the small 1"ers from the 20g tank, it seemed a tall task, I can only imagine the fun scooping the fam out of this tank was :).

These guys came out of a 10 gallon BB tank. They were desperately in need of larger quarters.

[jmf3460]

why did you move them Pat? male seems to be bothering female, i would split them he doesn't do much for taking care of the fry at this point. i feel like all he is worried about is the next spawn and mom wants to keep raising the current batch.

[Second Hand Pat]

Jacklyn, they were in a 10 gallon tank which I thought was getting a wee small for the growing fry. The male has settled now and he actually does guard duty. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I have taken a bunch of pictures of these guys and still not happy with the results :(

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/579/20508702439_d2c91fd687_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xfhsHV)DSC_2241 (https://flic.kr/p/xfhsHV)

[richgrenfell]

Looking good Pat. I agree with the other comments. You will have another spawn before long! In other news, both my apisto pairs have spawned. one is guarding eggs, and the other should be coming out with the herd any time now!

[Second Hand Pat]

Congrats Rich :) What apistos comprise your pairs? Also watched the female join the male in one of the caves (only briefly) last night so will be removing the male for now so I can get some size on the current batch.
Pat

[jmf3460]

Congrats Rich :) What apistos comprise your pairs? Also watched the female join the male in one of the caves (only briefly) last night so will be removing the male for now so I can get some size on the current batch.
Pat
Pat I think it I wise to remove the male at this point and focus on the current batch. looking forward to watching these grow

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat I think it I wise to remove the male at this point and focus on the current batch. looking forward to watching these grow

That's the plan Jacklyn :)

[jmf3460]

I have taken a bunch of pictures of these guys and still not happy with the results :(

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/579/20508702439_d2c91fd687_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/xfhsHV)DSC_2241 (https://flic.kr/p/xfhsHV)

funny story, I showed this pic to a non fish person and the first thing she said was "is that a bone" did not even notice the beauty of the fish, nor the babies at all.

[Second Hand Pat]

funny story, I showed this pic to a non fish person and the first thing she said was "is that a bone" did not even notice the beauty of the fish, nor the babies at all.

I guess the cave caught the eye first and from the end it does look like a bone. Pattern recognition is funny that way. I do like this photo as it shows a nice transition from the parents to the babies.

[richgrenfell]

Congrats Rich :) What apistos comprise your pairs? Also watched the female join the male in one of the caves (only briefly) last night so will be removing the male for now so I can get some size on the current batch.
Pat

I have wild njisseni, and wild cacatuoides from the putumayo.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have wild njisseni, and wild cacatuoides from the putumayo.

Hi Rich, any pictures :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Little ones are growing. Left mom with them since the fry follow her around and she provides an anchor point for feeding. I am seeing today that the fry are becoming more independent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vpVnUWklTM

[jmf3460]

they look really good pat, I can start to see their top fin in that classis apisto shape taking form.

[Second Hand Pat]

they look really good pat, I can start to see their top fin in that classis apisto shape taking form.

They look like little fish Jacklyn :) and except for two smaller guys the group is quite uniform.
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Pat! Lovely fish you have there. I bought some apistos from Mark last year myself! Here is a link to an article on apistos that I wrote quite some time ago: http://aquarticles.com/articles/breeding/Grenfell_Apistogramma.html give it a look, as it is what I generally do with most apisto species. I have been working with them for a long time, they are my passion! Any questions you may have just ask!

Hi Rich, I moved the fry into a 50 gallon with mom and they are growing well. So far they are about a 1/2 inch and are still on live BBS. I reread your article and noted you mention a paste food. I expect these guys will be ready to go to their new homes in about three weeks or so and need to transition them to other foods. I can try flake in the small bits but looking for other foods. Any suggestions?

Also mom will be moving back in the male. She served as a central point for the fry but the fry are mostly independent now.
Pat

[CrazyAngels]

Wow Pat, I'm so excited for you. I just had a few minutes to catch up with some good old forum reading and found this Thread, I'm so glad I did. they look so awesome and you've done your usual great job.. Congrats;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Wow Pat, I'm so excited for you. I just had a few minutes to catch up with some good old forum reading and found this Thread, I'm so glad I did. they look so awesome and you've done your usual great job.. Congrats;)

Thanks Jorge, these little guys have been fun along with watching the pair. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Independent fry.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQWgLyiCveQ

[Woodduck]

Those are cool, Pat. I had to watch the video twice 'cause the first time I was dancing!

[Ryan]

It doesn't take apistos very long to look like apistos. ;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Those are cool, Pat. I had to watch the video twice 'cause the first time I was dancing!

I like that tune too Bob :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

It doesn't take apistos very long to look like apistos. ;)

Ryan, that is an understatement :D They certainly do not look like fry anymore.
Pat

[Eddie]

Super cool! Love Apistos!

[Discus-n00b]

Such a nice pair! I've always wanted to keep some Apistos. They don't take that large of tanks....HMMMMMM. I've always loved the "Inka", Panduro, bitaeniata, and Abacaxis varieties.

[Ryan]

A. hongsloi is very nice, too. I've not really ventured much into Apistos but they're certainly very showy little fish.

[Second Hand Pat]

Super cool! Love Apistos!

Thanks Eddie :D


Such a nice pair! I've always wanted to keep some Apistos. They don't take that large of tanks....HMMMMMM. I've always loved the "Inka", Panduro, bitaeniata, and Abacaxis varieties.

20 longs Matt or perhaps a split 40 breeder. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

A. hongsloi is very nice, too. I've not really ventured much into Apistos but they're certainly very showy little fish.

The A. hongsloi are gorgeous.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeBLL3eyGE4

[Ryan]

Most of the brightly-colored hongsloi are tank-bred, they've been selectively bred just like discus for years. There are a few color forms of them out there. But still a beautiful fish if you don't mind domestics.

The wilds are more subtle but still beautiful. They have a stockier build and so they look more like an acara than a geo, IMO, which is why I'm probably drawn to them.

[richgrenfell]

Hi Rich, I moved the fry into a 50 gallon with mom and they are growing well. So far they are about a 1/2 inch and are still on live BBS. I reread your article and noted you mention a paste food. I expect these guys will be ready to go to their new homes in about three weeks or so and need to transition them to other foods. I can try flake in the small bits but looking for other foods. Any suggestions?

Also mom will be moving back in the male. She served as a central point for the fry but the fry are mostly independent now.
Pat

I have had good growth with chopped mysis, and krill. If you can get them on a good dry food that would be good. I have had past success with the egg yolk, and earthworm flakes from kensfish.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have had good growth with chopped mysis, and krill. If you can get them on a good dry food that would be good. I have had past success with the egg yolk, and earthworm flakes from kensfish.

Thanks Rich for the suggestions :) Al also suggested finely ground FDBWs and his pelleted food so I am trying both of those. They are taking the finely ground FDBWs.

I place some of the loose FDBWs into a coffee grinder and run it until I get a pretty small consistency. I add a wee bit to a small container with a lid with a bit of warm water. I shake the water with the added FDBW mix and allow it to sit for a couple minutes. Some of the FDBWs settle to the bottom of the container and I suck this out with a small syringe and add it to the water column above the babies. Works like a charm. :D The babies eat the FDBWs in the water column.

[Second Hand Pat]

Introducing FDBWs for the first time. You will see I stick a thin slice to the side of the tank.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX4KEo3eas0

[Ryan]

Make some FDBW dust in a coffee grinder ;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Make some FDBW dust in a coffee grinder ;)

I did Ryan, that is what they are eating in the video. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

A hint of color forming on the gill plates and some adult behavors. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y212AvhGe9o

[Rudustin]

Pat, Love the music on the video and they are getting feisty! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, Love the music on the video and they are getting feisty! Rufus

Thanks Rufus, they are indeed. :D
Pat

[Disgirl]

Congrats Pat! You sure do have the touch with fish breeding! They sure are cute!
Barb

[Second Hand Pat]

Congrats Pat! You sure do have the touch with fish breeding! They sure are cute!
Barb

Thanks Barb, I will be needing some more caves :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, some folks have expressed an interest in these fry. When I was at Marks yesterday he mentioned he would be willing to ship them for me. Since I have not shipped before and prefer they arrive alive I would like to do this. I will contact everyone on this manner.
pat

[rickztahone]

Cool Pat. Good luck with your little ones :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Cool Pat. Good luck with your little ones :)

Thanks Ricardo, it is going to be hard to give them up. I have really enjoyed watching them grow and develop. :)
Pat

[rickztahone]

Thanks Ricardo, it is going to be hard to give them up. I have really enjoyed watching them grow and develop. :)
Pat

I hear you on that. I got my discus when they were close to two months old. I can only imagine how attached I would have been had I seen them since baby fry!

[Rudustin]

Pat, no need to ship as you know because I am coming up to you to get my share of your endeavor with these guys! Can't wait. Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, no need to ship as you know because I am coming up to you to get my share of your endeavor with these guys! Can't wait. Rufus

Yup and looking forwarding to seeing you again Rufus :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

The fry are about one month old today and they are getting larger and more brave.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3y_BrrZ1sY

[Rudustin]

They look great Pat! Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great Pat! Rufus

Thanks Rufus :)

[pastry]

Loooooooove the updats Pat :) Can you sex them at all at that age?

[Second Hand Pat]

Loooooooove the updats Pat :) Can you sex them at all at that age?

Not that I know of Elliot, can you!! ;)

[CrazyAngels]

Oh my!!! how beautiful to see them doing so well one month later. Keep it up I'll need to catch me a trip out East..;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh my!!! how beautiful to see them doing so well one month later. Keep it up I'll need to catch me a trip out East..;)

I will and you do Jorge :D
Pat

[pastry]

Not that I know of Elliot, can you!! ;)

Damn, how did I not catch this earlier! Pat = "raunchier" then you'd expect :P

[Second Hand Pat]

Damn, how did I not catch this earlier! Pat = "raunchier" then you'd expect :P

:angel:

[Second Hand Pat]

The first batch of fry went to their new home today (local pickup). :D
Pat

[Ardan]

They have colored up nicely and grown a lot in one month!
I like the décor of the tank too, looks like a real Amazon environment! Great backround...
I must say I enjoyed reading the article that Rich Richgrenfell wrote also!
Maybe someday I will have to try some epistos, maybe a good project for retirement someday:)

Thanks for the update Pat! How many do you think are in there?

Ardan

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Ardan,

A rough count of 40 plus the seven which went home (local pickup) yesterday. They are a fun, non-demanding little fish Ardan and definitely worth considering. :)

Pat

[Ardan]

Hi Pat,
I will definitely keep those in mind, although right now I have been downsizing the fish room due to the worst work conditions in my 35 years there. Currently only 24 hours a week of work, threatening to go lower. No position to retire yet, so I have to see how it goes, work on my Etsy site, and hopefully not have to switch jobs. Time will tell....

Thanks for posting the video! Really interesting!:)

Ardan

[Second Hand Pat]

Hope work picks up Ardan.
Pat

[Rudustin]

The first batch of fry went to their new home today (local pickup). :D
Pat
Yes, they did! I am the happy new owner of seven of these cute little Apistos. Pat, you were so great yesterday! I swear she packed them like Kenny!!!! They settled in to a twenty gallon long with a little sand which Pat gave me because I am a strict BB tank person. You were right they immediately went to the sandy end of the tank and they are eating already this morning! They are showing some signs of their gender but it is still hard to tell. One is also living in a cave that I gave them. Thanks again Pat. Rufus

[Ardan]

Hope work picks up Ardan.
Pat

Thanks Pat!:)

47 or so fry sounds like a pretty good spawn!:)

Ardan

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes, they did! I am the happy new owner of seven of these cute little Apistos. Pat, you were so great yesterday! I swear she packed them like Kenny!!!! They settled in to a twenty gallon long with a little sand which Pat gave me because I am a strict BB tank person. You were right they immediately went to the sandy end of the tank and they are eating already this morning! They are showing some signs of their gender but it is still hard to tell. One is also living in a cave that I gave them. Thanks again Pat. Rufus

Had a blast with you Rufus and thank you for lunch :D Enjoy the little ones and as you see signs of gender please keep me posted. :)
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Pat!:)

47 or so fry sounds like a pretty good spawn!:)

Ardan

Thanks Ardan, good sized spawn for such a little fish :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

I placed the pair back together. The male is definitely happy to be back with the female. The spawn was 43 fry. Guessing that is a nice sized spawn.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU3hB-7b410

[Second Hand Pat]

Here are the fry...er not fry anymore. They are about seven weeks old.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V02eNYPKH7Q

[rickztahone]

yup, not fry any longer!

[CrazyAngels]

they look so good and uniform in size. One heck of job growing them out.. Congrats

[Second Hand Pat]

they look so good and uniform in size. One heck of job growing them out.. Congrats

Thanks Jorge, I am very happy with them. All are going to new homes soon. I get to be a first time shipper...oh boy.
Pat

[rickztahone]

Thanks Jorge, I am very happy with them. All are going to new homes soon. I get to be a first time shipper...oh boy.
Pat

such fun! Good luck Pat, the fish whisperer

[Eddie]

Really nice Pat! Wish I could have a group.

Eddie

[CrazyAngels]

Thanks Jorge, I am very happy with them. All are going to new homes soon. I get to be a first time shipper...oh boy.
Pat

Glad to hear. That way if I don't make it out to you you can send to me..:D

[Second Hand Pat]

Glad to hear. That way if I don't make it out to you you can send to me..:D

Lets see how the first one works :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Really nice Pat! Wish I could have a group.

Eddie

Thanks Eddie, will set you up when you are back in the states again.
Pat

[Eddie]

Thanks Eddie, will set you up when you are back in the states again.
Pat
Deal!

[Second Hand Pat]

Deal!

:thumbsup:

[jmf3460]

I received my apisto juvies from pat today!!!!! Two fish were doas but the other 5 are safe and sound in my tank that I had prepared for them. Tomorrow I will post pictures the two pictures I took tonight are not good. After 10 minutes in the tank, they were swimming about establishing territories and sifting through the sand searching for food. I am very happy with the 5 fish I have received, they are really cute and quite boisterous. I saw two fighting over a cavelike spot under a magnolia leaf and their fighting was quite impressive for juveniles.

They are in a 10 gallon tank with a light layer of sand, some leaf litter and manzanita wood, one potted crypt and a heater heated to 80 degrees. rooibos stained water with some biomedia from another tank.

[Second Hand Pat]

Jacklyn, so glad you like the little buggers. Sorry about the DOAs. In talking with Jacklyn one died in the bag and one bag split opened. My goal was no deaths. I was careful about fasting for 24 hours and using clean water for the bags. No sure what I will do different for next time. My one concern with the bags is having the fish get caught in a winkle in the bag and not being able to free itself. No clue on what to do different.

[rickztahone]

Jacklyn, so glad you like the little buggers. Sorry about the DOAs. In talking with Jacklyn one died in the bag and one bag split opened. My goal was no deaths. I was careful about fasting for 24 hours and using clean water for the bags. No sure what I will do different for next time. My one concern with the bags is having the fish get caught in a winkle in the bag and not being able to free itself. No clue on what to do different.

Do as Kenny does and use a whole box of bags on one fish, lol, j/k. When you fill the bag up with air it eliminates the wrinkles and the potential hazard. Double and triple bag for no bag tears. If you get a few popped bags feedback from buyers then you need to up the amount of bags you use.

[Second Hand Pat]

Do as Kenny does and use a whole box of bags on one fish, lol, j/k. When you fill the bag up with air it eliminates the wrinkles and the potential hazard. Double and triple bag for no bag tears. If you get a few popped bags feedback from buyers then you need to up the amount of bags you use.

I am using the breather bags Ricardo so no air. You fill the bag with water but the bag is not taut. It needs to be more like a pillow when you place a little pressure on the bag. I can double bag them however.

[Rudustin]

I received my apisto juvies from pat today!!!!! Two fish were doas but the other 5 are safe and sound in my tank that I had prepared for them. Tomorrow I will post pictures the two pictures I took tonight are not good. After 10 minutes in the tank, they were swimming about establishing territories and sifting through the sand searching for food. I am very happy with the 5 fish I have received, they are really cute and quite boisterous. I saw two fighting over a cavelike spot under a magnolia leaf and their fighting was quite impressive for juveniles.

They are in a 10 gallon tank with a light layer of sand, some leaf litter and manzanita wood, one potted crypt and a heater heated to 80 degrees. rooibos stained water with some biomedia from another tank.
Hi Jacklyn, I have the original seven Apistos that I got from Pat. They are very engaging and fun to watch. They are growing very well and they do have a bit of sand in a twenty gallon long with two little caves which they do like. Out of the seven I have five that have grown very well and two small ones that seem to be growing as well. The were the two smaller ones anyway. They love to eat! I feed them sometimes five times a day. They are on crushed FDBW's and frozen brine shrimp cubes. Enjoy. Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Pictures Rufus :D
Pat

[rickztahone]

I am using the breather bags Ricardo so no air. You fill the bag with water but the bag is not taut. It needs to be more like a pillow when you place a little pressure on the bag. I can double bag them however.

ah I see, breather bags.

[Rudustin]

Pictures Rufus :D
Pat
You know me Pat, putting pictures on this forum is too complicated for my non pragmatic mind! I will try at some point. I sent you a text message this afternoon but you never answered. Easier on my phone directly to you for pics. Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

You know me Pat, putting pictures on this forum is too complicated for my non pragmatic mind! I will try at some point. I sent you a text message this afternoon but you never answered. Easier on my phone directly to you for pics. Rufus

Rufus, I did not receive your text. Can you sent it again. Send pictures anytime. :)
Pat

[Rudustin]

Sent the message again just now via text Pat. Rufus

[Second Hand Pat]

Sent the message again just now via text Pat. Rufus

Got it Rufus :)

[jmf3460]

well here are the two pics I was originally not going to post. they are not good and I hope to get better ones tomorrow with a water change.
9072890729

[Second Hand Pat]

They are so cute Jacklyn, thanks for the pictures. :)
Pat

[rickztahone]

Cool Jacklyn!

[jmf3460]

I did get some better shots today after a 60% water change and a morning feeding of brine shrimp and a mid day feeding of Als ground up FDBW. They seem to like the FDBW better and their little bellies are rounding out. They seem very happy. Video coming soon. I will be starting my own thread on these guys to track their growout. A big thanks goes out to Pat for providing such beautiful and healthy fish!!
90745907469074790748

[Second Hand Pat]

You are more then welcome Jacklyn and best of luck with these guys. They look totally awesome and already look bigger lol. :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

These two are at it again.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjtafiraMW0

[jmf3460]

congrats Pat!! you have good luck with this pair. I see the dad is not present this time, good call. this reminds me I need to update my thread on the ones I have from your first spawn, a lot of growth has happened and a lot has changed in their little tank.

[Second Hand Pat]

congrats Pat!! you have good luck with this pair. I see the dad is not present this time, good call. this reminds me I need to update my thread on the ones I have from your first spawn, a lot of growth has happened and a lot has changed in their little tank.

Dad is in with them Jacklyn, I have never seen him go after the fry. He will usually stay between me and the fry on guard duty. Would love to see how your guys are doing. The few I have left of the first batch are starting to show some "maleness". ")
Pat

[CrazyAngels]

They truly look awesome Pat. Congrats yet one more time. you have my interest on them for sure. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

They truly look awesome Pat. Congrats yet one more time. you have my interest on them for sure. :)

Thanks Jorge, be definitely be looking for new homes for these guys. :D
Pat

[Second Hand Pat]

Fry are a week old today. They have grown a lot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld9rapFlZGc