Kordon ich rid plus - discus dosage

[Jack L]

hi,
for any that have used this, did you dose at the full amount, or at 1/2 amount that many posts on web suggest?

thanks

[pitdogg2]

For ich I use nothing but heat....safe fast effective

[Jack L]

Well I had another thread on that. I thought I was successful with heat alone, but I think that was a false conclusion as it returned after they were stressed. And though I saw no more spot, I did see intermittent flashing and high breathing rate.

I have a 500 watt heater, but I can't get the tank over 90 with that, that is measured in the sump so the display is giving to be lower.

I'm going to have to watch my breaker if I add more on that outlet.

What is your heat protocol?

This ich rid at half dose is making them breath like they are being chased by an otter

[pitdogg2]

88-90* for 10-12 days then return to normal over 3 days never any problems. I also use a high dose of salt whether it helps is up for debate. I would put a heater in both sump and tank if you're finding a big difference. Read below if you haven't already

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php

read the last comment, I never measure salt just dump cups of it in at a time in my 75 have never killed a fish from salt ... plants yep fish no.

[strawberryblonde]

How big is that tank you're heating? I run a 120 with a 500w titanium heater and have no problem getting temps over 100 (nope, didn't WANT it that high, it just did it when my controller went wonky).

How about adding a second heater to the tank? And a third if you need to!

To treat my one and only ich outbreak I slowly raised the temps to 86, held that for 3 days, then raised it slowly again to 91F. Held that for 8 days, then backed it down to 86 for 3 more days. Haven't had any more ich - ever.

I did add a lot of extra oxygen with 2 big hydro sponges just to be on the safe side.

[jmf3460]

jack, ick is not a disease we see much in the discus world, mainly because of the temperatures that we keep the fish at. are you sure the white dots you are seeing are ich? could they maybe just be the white pimples that we sometimes see as a lack of water cleanliness. Ich is also a disease a healthy fish can fight off on its own. Maybe you should be asking yourself if your fish are truly healthy. My suggestion is to do some big waterchanges like 2 a day for a few days and see how it goes. Personally I think heat and big waterchanges will get rid of this nuisance.

[Jack L]

88-90* for 10-12 days then return to normal over 3 days never any problems. I also use a high dose of salt whether it helps is up for debate. I would put a heater in both sump and tank if you're finding a big difference. Read below if you haven't already

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_ich2.php

read the last comment, I never measure salt just dump cups of it in at a time in my 75 have never killed a fish from salt ... plants yep fish no.

i should probably put one in main tank too you are right. that is a good idea.

i had started with ich rid protocol (not kordons protocol, some biologist info i found)

i read that article and about 50 others. from universities, state fisheries and hobbyists i could soon do a Ted talk on it, but only fish geeks would show : )

[Jack L]

How big is that tank you're heating? I run a 120 with a 500w titanium heater and have no problem getting temps over 100 (nope, didn't WANT it that high, it just did it when my controller went wonky).

How about adding a second heater to the tank? And a third if you need to!

To treat my one and only ich outbreak I slowly raised the temps to 86, held that for 3 days, then raised it slowly again to 91F. Held that for 8 days, then backed it down to 86 for 3 more days. Haven't had any more ich - ever.

I did add a lot of extra oxygen with 2 big hydro sponges just to be on the safe side.

Its a 140, with 30 gal sump, but by my actual math its about 160.
heater i use
http://www.amazon.com/Catalina-Titanium-Heater-500-Watt/dp/B000PNCFK0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1442626282&sr=8-1&keywords=catalina+heater

i only have 15amp breaker....with the light..well that is LED so only 60 watts, but two heaters, and the mag 12...could get trippy. i'll have to see what amps the pump is consuming.

i think what happened is that there are cold pockets in tank, with all the wood and plants, there are plenty of "dead" zone, even w/ 4 returns.

and actually, i raised heat again (but not as much) when i do that it messes with the balance of the tank, new algea show that weren't there before, melts plants, that created a bacteria bloom! it if was a q tank or bb like most on here, it expect it would work better. in my 10 gal qtank, heat did work on the those fish.

thanks for the ideas though

[Jack L]

jack, ick is not a disease we see much in the discus world, mainly because of the temperatures that we keep the fish at. are you sure the white dots you are seeing are ich? could they maybe just be the white pimples that we sometimes see as a lack of water cleanliness. Ich is also a disease a healthy fish can fight off on its own. Maybe you should be asking yourself if your fish are truly healthy. My suggestion is to do some big waterchanges like 2 a day for a few days and see how it goes. Personally I think heat and big waterchanges will get rid of this nuisance.

Hi Jacklyn,

i have seen one of the pimples before, but it was related to wood injury, it healed/went away on its own as did the scrapes from wood.

its ICH, no doubt anymore, i'm a moron for not qtanking some farlowellas (quite a while ago now). i knew better, i was just lazy. i've been back to the LFS and seen the fish COVERED in ICH now.
when the heat is up, my observation is that it suppresses ICH enough to keep the casual observer from being aware. but they still are there itching the gills and making them flash now an then. but nothing a casual observer would notice.

but then when stressed, it can creep back up which is what i observed. i had not warmed up my water barrel enough, and it dropped the temp..stressed fish...some ich spot showed up. and yes, it went away w/ increased heat. BUT is it is still there else it could not have popped up. so it didn't really go away. and based on all i've now read, it makes sense that its hasn't gone away.

I think Discus are quite a bit tougher than other fish i've kept. Discus seem to live with ICH while others die from it. I only lost 1 D to ICH.

i have finished my protocol with rid ich, now i'm going to observe and see if it ICH is stays gone. if not, i'll either buy more heaters or do larger dose of ich rid(i only 1/2 dosed)
at this time i see the breathing rate is better and operculums aren't flared and i'm not seeing any flashing, but i'm not holding my breath.

i can say, they tolerate both heat and ICH RID, but they do better with heat. the formalin seems to deplete O2, and the med itself makes them skittish. but heat destroys plants and grows new nasty algea. what is the best answer one may ask. DON'T BE A MORON AND SKIP QTANK AND INTRODUCE ICH in the first place.

[rickmiles]

hi,
for any that have used this, did you dose at the full amount, or at 1/2 amount that many posts on web suggest?

thanks
My Discus has never had ich. Knock on wood.

For most other fish, I would use the full dose, follow the instructions on the label, when you don't see the ich anymore or you think the fish don't have ich anymore, treat for an additional 3 or 4 days.

I also raise the temp to about 86 ...It speeds up the ich's life cycle.

I also add about one tablesoon of salt (not epsom salt) per gallon of tank water.

Rick

[pastry]

better/cheaper to use heat only. get more heaters if need be. perfect situation where no meds are needed.

[Jack L]

My Discus has never had ich. Knock on wood.

For most other fish, I would use the full dose, follow the instructions on the label, when you don't see the ich anymore or you think the fish don't have ich anymore, treat for an additional 3 or 4 days.

I also raise the temp to about 86 ...It speeds up the ich's life cycle.

I also add about one tablesoon of salt (not epsom salt) per gallon of tank water.

Rick

well i went with 1/2 dose after all the reading about using 1/2 dose for sensitive fish, like tetras. well if 1/2 dose kills ICH on tetras, it should kill it on any fish. the chems are for the ich, not the fish...right?

if it doesn't work i will do full dose.

the frequency i was dosing was every 3 days for 4 treatments. following this article combined with other readings http://www.thekrib.com/Diseases/ich.html

if it works, then i've dumped a whole lot less chems in tank.

[Jack L]

better/cheaper to use heat only. get more heaters if need be. perfect situation where no meds are needed.

also easier, set it and forget it.

[Jack L]

better/cheaper to use heat only. get more heaters if need be. perfect situation where no meds are needed.

oh, i used the kordon as i had it, and it is supposed to kill more than ich, but now that i typed that i only used 1/2 dose...so duh there. i only read 1/2 dose for ich, not sure what 1/2 dose does on the other parasites

[pitdogg2]

Like any other makes them able to build tolerance to so down the road it will not work at all.
Good luck with it. I'd stop using and go just heat it has been proven over and over it works.

[Jack L]

Like any other makes them able to build tolerance to so down the road it will not work at all.
Good luck with it. I'd stop using and go just heat it has been proven over and over it works.

guess in need to start shopping for better/bigger heater

[Jack L]

Like any other makes them able to build tolerance to so down the road it will not work at all.
Good luck with it. I'd stop using and go just heat it has been proven over and over it works.

umm....not sure how i missed this fact. that catalina heater is rated for 100-130 gals. i'm heating 160 gals, no wonder it runs almost non stop can can't get temp over 90

[Jack L]

you know pitdogg2, you are right, that 1/2 dose does just help build tolerance.

using breath count and operculem range as a guide, 1/2 dose worked, but i am going to dose couple days of full dosage to be proper about it.

before the kordon, they were all puffing pretty hard, some with breath rate 150 and higher, flashing and twitching. no visible signs of ICH until i had that temp drop, and a few showed signs. i did a count tonight breathing between 60-80 (except for one).

i might be wrong, but i read this as the ich remained active in gills, and the kordon killed it. until i had this problem, and did a lot more reading, i didn't realize ich would linger in gills out of sight like this.

p.s. i still plant to buy a bigger heater, looking at a 800 watt finnex. because heat treatement in my qtnank did seem to kill ich on ottos.