Recommend some plants please

[a.person61]

I'm looking to add some more plants other then java moss, java fern and anubias. Can you please recermend any.
Thanks in advance

[Filip]

If you have a decend light and a bit of prior planting experience you will be suprised how many plant species can survive in discus temperatures.
Some of my recent plants on 30-31C with no co2 nor ferts ,include:
Bacopa caroliniana
Bacopa compact
Rotala rotundofolia
Althernanthera reineckii
Althernantn.r. Sp. Mini
Hygrophillia: diformis,corymbosa,pollysperma
Ludwigia
Hemianthus micrantemoides- aka H.M.
Cerathophyllum demersum.
Sagitaria sibullata
Echinodorus bleheri .....

If you adding co2 and bit of ferts this list is enormous.

[a.person61]

Thanks filip i should of added more information i add fertilizer daily with low light, im wanting to get a co2 system but the damn dollar is horrible

[Filip]

Low light narrows down your plant list but you can still try :
hygrophilla species
Valissneria species
Echinodorus species
Ceeathophyllum demersum
Salvinia -floating
Ludwigia .
Try to pot them in some quallity fertile substrate to compensate their harsh conditions.

[rickztahone]

I would avoid most red plants as in non co2 tanks, they tend to not thrive well and lose much of their red color, such as the Althernanthera reineckii

[Filip]

I would avoid most red plants as in non co2 tanks, they tend to not thrive well and lose much of their red color, such as the Althernanthera reineckii

Yes,red plants are considered to be more demanding, yet im suprised to see that in my tank its still growing after 3 weeks with no co2 and ferts.
Def. Not thriving rather surviving but ill be happy if it stays this way.
Ill report my results after a while ,again.

[rickztahone]

Yes,red plants are considered to be more demanding, yet im suprised to see that in my tank its still growing after 3 weeks with no co2 and ferts.
Def. Not thriving rather surviving but ill be happy if it stays this way.
Ill report my results after a while ,again.

I had much success with staurogyne repens with no co2 when I had 2 10g tanks.

[a.person61]

Thanks guys didn't know red plants need co2, I'll have to get one soon. I am going to follow your advice on the pots. How deep should the pots be?
Thanks

[Filip]

I wont recomend co2 cause it shifts water PH in a way that is very expensive and hard to control, and ph shifts bothers discus and triggers diseases on the long run.

As for the pots. I use the cheapest market PVC opaque/ translucent 200 gram. glasses,they are least visible.
I cut them at 2-3 inch hight ,drill some holes at botom and fill them 2/3 with profi substrate and 1/3 cap with the same sand or substrate you have on tank bottom.
Once they grow roots in rich substrate, it will be easier for them to survive.
Big plus is ,you can move them around during vacuuming.

[cellingson]

You should have no problem with CO2 causing pH shifts if you aren't using RO water, or if you are using ROM then you are buffering your water.
Low light, low CO2 plants. Ive had success with the crypts, dwarf lilly and rotala indica.

[cellingson]

I had much success with staurogyne repens with no co2 when I had 2 10g tanks.

Rick, does this plant attach to rock/wood?

[rickztahone]

Rick, does this plant attach to rock/wood?

no, it is a root feeder. It actually normally grows vertically but I "trained" it enough to actually shoot runners and I used it as a foreground plant for quite some time. It was an amazing 10g CRS tank.

[a.person61]

KH is 50 and GH didn't even turn orange with a API test kit. Ph is around 7.5 would this mix well with a co2 system?

[cellingson]

Your GH didn't change, meaning your water is hard. Do you get "calcium deposits" on your tank when water evaporates?

Calcium bicarbonate is often found in tap water, generally the harder the water the more calcium bicarbonate. Bicarbonate acts to buffer pH. As CO2 builds up into the tank it combines with water to form acid, however higher levels of bicarbonate can bind to the acid ions and neutralize it.

You may remember from your chemistry days. H20 + C02 -> H (acid) + HCO3 (bicarbonate) -> H2HCO3.

So given your parameters adding CO2 would be no problem. It will cause small changes in pH, such as small rise at night when your CO2 is turned off, and small drops in the day as your Co2 levels climb while it is on. But the changes will be small and more importantly gradual. Gradual decrease with turning it on, and gradually increase with turning it off. Animals are naturally designed to adjust to small swings in pH.

[a.person61]

I tested the GH wrong sorry. It took 5 drops to turn green so about 50 to 100PPM

[Filip]

Your GH didn't change, meaning your water is hard. Do you get "calcium deposits" on your tank when water evaporates?

Calcium bicarbonate is often found in tap water, generally the harder the water the more calcium bicarbonate. Bicarbonate acts to buffer pH. As CO2 builds up into the tank it combines with water to form acid, however higher levels of bicarbonate can bind to the acid ions and neutralize it.

You may remember from your chemistry days. H20 + C02 -> H (acid) + HCO3 (bicarbonate) -> H2HCO3.

So given your parameters adding CO2 would be no problem. It will cause small changes in pH, such as small rise at night when your CO2 is turned off, and small drops in the day as your Co2 levels climb while it is on. But the changes will be small and more importantly gradual. Gradual decrease with turning it on, and gradually increase with turning it off. Animals are naturally designed to adjust to small swings in pH.


And what about daily and large WCs?
How will you manage that in terms of stablile ph?

[a.person61]

WC will only be about 30% a day or 2nd day, im not raising or feeding beef hart. If i was to do a water change before the co2 came on woild that cause a swing?

[Filip]

WC will only be about 30% a day or 2nd day, im not raising or feeding beef hart. If i was to do a water change before the co2 came on woild that cause a swing?

If you turn off co2 at night,that would be a safest period of day to change water, before co2 turns on again.
That way co2 will have enough time to outgass over night.

[a.person61]

Wouldn't the morning before it turns on be safest then? That would also fit in with my time table. Just to add on if i was to age my water with peat moss would that alter anything else other then PH? And is it a no no to mix with co2 with my current water parameters? Thanks

[DISCUS STU]

90625 My tank with Vallisneria and Radican Swords, both good tank mates.

What's nice about the Vallisneria is that it propogates by itself and I have to weed it out when it grows in too heavily.

BTW, the Radican Sword pictured here is relatively small. They can grow very tall and majestic with long stems and broad leaves, very beautiful.

[Filip]

Wouldn't the morning before it turns on be safest then? That would also fit in with my time table. Just to add on if i was to age my water with peat moss would that alter anything else other then PH? And is it a no no to mix with co2 with my current water parameters? Thanks


1.Yes thats what i ment ,if you turn off co2 during night ,in the morning before co2 turns on is the safest time to WC becouse co2 is outgassed of the water.

2.If you were to age water with peat, that would ment lowering and stabilising Kh-carbonate hardnes,and also little lowering of Ph depending on peat.

3. Regardless of your tap water parameters, co 2 does what it does ,and that is altering/ lowering Ph due to carbic acid in water.
How much and how often does it alters it ?,how much altering and amountof co2 is safe / unsafe for fish ? That youl never know for sure. So i guess at the end its only up to your personal choise.

[a.person61]

So if i have 6 hours of co2 and it lowers the ph to say 6.5? Then i decided to add 4 more hours it could go to 5?

[Jack L]

in my tank i have val, sag, compact sword, various crypts all seem to do fine in heat, even when i jacked it up to 90

what doesn't do well in heat is javas, and myrio. java went black, myrio melted

[DJW]

Austin, if your API test for GH turned green at 5 drops then you have fairly soft water...

Here is a link to a good article on some of the things you are discussing, including the relationship between CO2 and pH:

http://www.thekrib.com/Plants/CO2/khgh.html

[Filip]

So if i have 6 hours of co2 and it lowers the ph to say 6.5? Then i decided to add 4 more hours it could go to 5?

No ,it doesent exactly work that way.
Ph crashes (thats lowering ph to dangerous points ) happens very rarely and only in aquariums with very soft water and very low KH(buffer).

In most cases like yours with hard tapwater you will lower ph to some degree ex. From 7 to 6.5 and it just will not go lower than that. So dont worry much about ph crashes .

[a.person61]

My kh is about 50 ppm is that considered hard? I also mentioned i tested the gh wrong the first time

[cellingson]

If I were you I wouldn't worry too much about it. You can check your pH in the morning, you can check it at night, and see how much of a swing the CO2 does. If it is too much for you then you can add some buffer to your water. I think too much would be a swing from 7.5 to 6.0. Add your tap water at night, add in in the morning, at 30% change I doubt it will make much difference.

[Filip]

Kh 50ppm is very low buffering capacity and that means you have to be carefull and monitor ph,kh,co2 with test.

I agree with nemonic that you should do some reading and homework on ph,kh and co 2 correlations before you start this route.info on this subject is easaly avalible on net.

With that said i also agree with cellingson that 30% W.C. Is too little to cause any problems,but still monitor and be carefull cause with discus bioload KH can easyly drop and cause ph crash if you skip some 3-4 days WC eg.during weekends off.

And for end ,my subjective opinion- with low lights and lowlight plants you dont really need co2 at the first place. Co2 is ussualy used in so called high tech tanks, where light is much higer,and light dictates everything else in this photosinthetic equillibrium of light,co2 , nutrients,flow.

[a.person61]

Thanks filip, i will have to do some research and put some buffers in my water, i didn't relize that the buffers was so low.

[Filip]

Thanks filip, i will have to do some research and put some buffers in my water, i didn't relize that the buffers was so low.

Look on the bright side mate, at least you have a perfect soft water for your discus fish.
Just buy tests and monitor for start, then you can go further experimenting co2.