Need discus breeding help, just got a pair that laid eggs

[NanzB]

Okay so I have a planted discus tank with 8 discus. We did have more two or three have died over a long period of time. Anyways, they are different colors. One snow white, three blue ones. I don't remember all the names but I have old pictures I can add. Two of the blue ones lay3d eggs on a amazon sword leaf and I need to know what to do ASAP. There is other fish besides discus in the tank. Some cory's, rummy nose tetras, and gold snail, and maybe another fish or two I believe a couple zebra long fins.

I know I need to move the breeding pair to a seperately tank. I was going to move the pair to a 20 high or 29 gallon barebottom tank as soon as possible. I'm going to get a breeding cone asap as well. I saw articles or threads on here explaining the gh and ph and temp so I will be using those that I see. Anyone that can provide me with more information would be helping so much. For example if you do not think I should do barebottom please let me know.

I need to know should I seperately the pair as soon as possible?
Should I try to save those eggs? (But I read they hatch in 55 hours I just noticed Th3 eggs earlier today)

[Ardan]

Sometimes it's best the let the pair with others so they learn to guard the eggs first before putting them in their own tank.
A 29 is a good size.
Bare bottom is best to keep clean imo.
Also it may be hard to tell at first if it is a male and female. Time will tell if the eggs hatch.

hth
Ardan

[John_Nicholson]

First you do not know if you have a pair or not. Could be 2 females. Second just relax the fate of the discus world does not rest on whether or not this spawn is successful. Third obviously I have not seen your fish but is the pair good enough to make a breeding pair. i.e. what quality are they? Also sounds like you really are not setup to raise fry. If you start having success with them you will need at least 4 more 75 gallon tanks for growouts. You will also need to be able to age enough water to do daily 50%+ water changes a day on them. I suggest you just relax and enjoy your fish for now.

-john

[DISCUS STU]

Probably a good idea to let them get the hang of it before moving to the 29 gal. I've had wigglers in a community Discus tank but eventually you'l want to move them to let it play out.

If this is your first shot, I'd just be happy to have a breeding pair, assuming they're not two females. Good luck!

[NanzB]

Sometimes it's best the let the pair with others so they learn to guard the eggs first before putting them in their own tank.
A 29 is a good size.
Bare bottom is best to keep clean imo.
Also it may be hard to tell at first if it is a male and female. Time will tell if the eggs hatch.

hth
Ardan

okay, I see. sounds great. thanks alot! yeah substrate sucks. i always feel i need it though. my first barebottom is for my amano shrimp. or however you spell it.

[NanzB]

First you do not know if you have a pair or not. Could be 2 females. Second just relax the fate of the discus world does not rest on whether or not this spawn is successful. Third obviously I have not seen your fish but is the pair good enough to make a breeding pair. i.e. what quality are they? Also sounds like you really are not setup to raise fry. If you start having success with them you will need at least 4 more 75 gallon tanks for growouts. You will also need to be able to age enough water to do daily 50%+ water changes a day on them. I suggest you just relax and enjoy your fish for now.

-john

Okay, i didnt know it could be two females. of all the discus breeding stuff i have read, which is a lot. but now a whole lot odviously. i havent read that before so any little bit of information helps. If everything goes well i would love to stay in this forum and help anyone else i can. Being into fish, being an aquarist, or whatever is great. Discus are my number one fish. i love freshwater planted tanks. I will post pictures somewhere soon. I have to transfer from my phone and stuff. yeah okay i see also. I need to get a couple big tanks. so 75 gallon minimum?

and also what do you mean aged water? like condition some tap water and let it sit for a couple of days?
i have 6 5 gallon buckets i use for wc's for my 55 and 16 bow front saltwater tanks. i have to mix the water, etc. And i also have alot alot more buckets laying around. i love the 5 gallon buckets more though.
I can definitely do 50+ water changes a day that is not a big deal. i like doing water changes, it isnt a big deal.

and the quality, they are all great looking discus. i will show you soon. should i pm you them? or where should i post them?

[NanzB]

Probably a good idea to let them get the hang of it before moving to the 29 gal. I've had wigglers in a community Discus tank but eventually you'l want to move them to let it play out.

If this is your first shot, I'd just be happy to have a breeding pair, assuming they're not two females. Good luck!

thanks man i appreciate it alot!

[John_Nicholson]

When raising fry you will need to do large daily water changes if you hope to have any real success. I do not know what your local water is like but many people have problems with dissolved gasses. By storing the water with aeration you can drive the gasses off. The goal is to have water that is stable. Raising fry is a labor intensive experience.

-john

[NanzB]

When raising fry you will need to do large daily water changes if you hope to have any real success. I do not know what your local water is like but many people have problems with dissolved gasses. By storing the water with aeration you can drive the gasses off. The goal is to have water that is stable. Raising fry is a labor intensive experience. -john


Supposedly the water in Gwinnett county is great. Everyone says great things that I have spoken to about The ph out of the tap, etc. I use marc weizz blackwater conditioner and prime also for metals now. But yeah I definitly do not have problems with big water changes daily. Anything to breed discus lol, I'll do it :) it just takes so much time for these guys to get big I usually just buy small discus 35-40$ at the lfs. I have some pics also of the pair. Might not be a great pic

[Larry Bugg]

Yup, the water in the Metro Atlanta are is great for discus. No need for the additives other than prime.

[NanzB]

Okay, thanks again Larry. Hopefully you won't get bored of me appreciating and saying thanks lollll.

So, update - The eggs from the discus laid are white and only two of them are brown? what sign is that? Anyone have any ideas? I believe they are suppose to turn dark colored after 24 hours. The male is suppose to fertilize during the night time the night after they were laid?
googling info on it as i type lol

Also another thing they are young discus, about 4 inches. I need to measure them honestly I think they are bigger and my wife thinks they are smaller than what I think. HMMM! lol
So I am in a rush to breed discus in general, but i have been for a long time now. I know i can't rush it so yeah i will enjoy the fish and watch them carefully for sure.

[NanzB]

90479

thats the "possible" pair or two females with eggs on the leaf from two days ago. crappy pic but yeah lol


POSTED PICS IN MEDIA GALLERY check them out please. Most are old, but I will take some new ones.

Also, anyone know how to get rid of black beard algae stuff???

[Larry Bugg]

Well, since I know your water is good for breeding, the white eggs mean they weren't fertilized. Could be that you have two females who are acting like a pair which is common or you have a male that is too young or did a poor job.

Your wife is probably correct. It is very common for most to call their discus larger than they really are. Sooooo many times people post about the size of their fish and then put a ruler to them and are surprised. Maybe you said earlier in one of your post how old they actually are but I don't remember seeing it. Do you know the age? If not, how large were they when you got them and how long have you had them? If they are laying eggs then odds are that they are at least 9 months old but I suspect they are a little older. At 4" or less they are behind in growth but are very lovely.

Blackbeard algae - if it is just in selected areas of the tank, I have found the easiest way to kill it is to use Seachem Excel or Hydrogen Peroxide. Turn off your filters for about 10 to 15 minutes and use a syringe to squirt it directly on the infected area. Within a day or so you will see the algae turn a different color. It is dead.

[John_Nicholson]

Just wanted to add that the male will fertilize ( i.e. make runs ) at the same time as the female is laying eggs. Right now all you have to do is to keep taking care of the fish and let nature take its course. If they are a pair or just 2 females they will probably keep laying eggs roughly every 7 days. As long as they are healthy the egg production will continue....LOL. Also you tank looks nice and the fish look fine so do not take this the wrong way. Your fish are small. For all of the people that what to raise their fish out in a planted tank this is the size that most of them will obtain. Lets say that your fish are 4 inches. Try to imagine them at 6 to 7 inches. That is why most of us old timers raise them in a bare bottom tank and then move them to a planted tanks as adults.

Good luck.

-john

[NanzB]

Well, since I know your water is good for breeding, the white eggs mean they weren't fertilized. Could be that you have two females who are acting like a pair which is common or you have a male that is too young or did a poor job.

Your wife is probably correct. It is very common for most to call their discus larger than they really are. Sooooo many times people post about the size of their fish and then put a ruler to them and are surprised. Maybe you said earlier in one of your post how old they actually are but I don't remember seeing it. Do you know the age? If not, how large were they when you got them and how long have you had them? If they are laying eggs then odds are that they are at least 9 months old but I suspect they are a little older. At 4" or less they are behind in growth but are very lovely.

Blackbeard algae - if it is just in selected areas of the tank, I have found the easiest way to kill it is to use Seachem Excel or Hydrogen Peroxide. Turn off your filters for about 10 to 15 minutes and use a syringe to squirt it directly on the infected area. Within a day or so you will see the algae turn a different color. It is dead.

Okay i definitely understand. yeah I notice the discus have grown, but it is such a small amount over a long period of time. I was thinking the pictures i posted were from 8 to 12 months ago. BUT they are from only February, this year. so yeah, i need to change that info. I just updated there and put some new pictures. Maybe ill post a video of youtube and post a link, just so you guys can see them moving and stuff. We never go into discus because of their popularity in the aquarium world honestly and havent got into it because they are the king of the aquarium. I think we just stumbled on the fish. My wife first started loving them. Then I researched information about them and learned more and more and now i would like to breed them. I was going to buy a breeding pair one day. BUT have decided just to grow some out. i have a few questions that i will put to what John said below. So the biggest discus that is alive is 4 inches from head to fin, it is one of the blue ones for the possible pair. the rest are alot smaller. Probably closer to 3 inches. one or two might be a little smaller. i will measure the rest i was more concerned on the biggest ones earlier today LOl.....We have bought all the discus except the big pigeon blood (which died), very very small. So some of them we did pay 35$ a piece at the LFS. I think we have paid less for them i dont remember. Some small ones i paid more. "snow white more expensive" lol etc. etc. They all look good honestly. We have been to alot of the stores in Atlanta and have seen alot of price differences and different Discus with messed fins, eyes, etc. so yeah

Definitely need to buy some Excel. seems kinda hard to fine I need to go to some lfs and look honestly. It is a huge problem in two of our tanks. Need blackbeard algae help! There is alot of it in my 20H tank. the 55 discus tank is isnt as bad but you can definitely see it :(((((((. and good news i will try to get that 75 gallon with stand for 150$ ! wish me luck going to check it out. comes with hood, light, really big amount of filtration. suppose to be a great buy....wish me luck again lol.

thanks Larry sorry to bore you with text guys....

[NanzB]

Just wanted to add that the male will fertilize ( i.e. make runs ) at the same time as the female is laying eggs. Right now all you have to do is to keep taking care of the fish and let nature take its course. If they are a pair or just 2 females they will probably keep laying eggs roughly every 7 days. As long as they are healthy the egg production will continue....LOL. Also you tank looks nice and the fish look fine so do not take this the wrong way. Your fish are small. For all of the people that what to raise their fish out in a planted tank this is the size that most of them will obtain. Lets say that your fish are 4 inches. Try to imagine them at 6 to 7 inches. That is why most of us old timers raise them in a bare bottom tank and then move them to a planted tanks as adults.

Good luck.

-john

Okay John, I see. Very very good information for sure. HMMM yeah I dont know if which ever discus is producing eggs needs to so often honestly? is it bad for a discus to be producing eggs so often and them not being used? I guess have to let nature take its course like you say and watch and learn the discus in person.
Yeah the fish are small :( the biggest one died a couple months ago. youve seen it the pigeon blood in the media gallery. so saddddd. BUT good news if this lfs has a sale soon i could get two or three pigeon blood discus for 30% off the 60$ price tag. they are selling pigeon blood's 60$ each. hmm yeah i think its expensive for a very small discus. Usually we can get the small ones pretty cheap at one specific store.
So should i have been raising discus in a barebottom totally empty tank? Honestly i want to know why it would be better? I need to know please. Should I move them all carefully to a barebottom 75 gallon?
AND also what do you mean by barebottom? i think of barebottom as just filtration, heater and that is. no driftwood or substrate. is that correct? please educate me on this subject. It sounds like they might grow a little faster and they will get to their full size easier.

Thanks John look forward to hearing from you

Joey

[John_Nicholson]

For discus to reach their full potential they require a few interlocking things. They need clean warm water. I prefer 82 degrees. They need to be fed a high protein food and they need plenty of it. Because of that they produce lots of waste. This leads us to our next thing they need...lots of water changes. All of these items work together and lacking in any of the areas will affect how much of the potential is reached. The reason people go bare bottom is it makes it much easier to keep the water/tank clean. Once you have the fish in a bare bottom tank you will probably be amazed how much waste they produce. It can be eye opening. Also most of the time that you get fish from a local fish store you are facing an uphill battle. They normally deal in the cheapest fish that they can get. This means that most LFS discus will never reach their potential regardless of what you do because of their past handling. There are exceptions to this rule and I have no clue about your local store. Discus raising is both a art and a science. it is also a fun journey of growth.

-john

[NanzB]

For discus to reach their full potential they require a few interlocking things. They need clean warm water. I prefer 82 degrees. They need to be fed a high protein food and they need plenty of it. Because of that they produce lots of waste. This leads us to our next thing they need...lots of water changes. All of these items work together and lacking in any of the areas will affect how much of the potential is reached. The reason people go bare bottom is it makes it much easier to keep the water/tank clean. Once you have the fish in a bare bottom tank you will probably be amazed how much waste they produce. It can be eye opening. Also most of the time that you get fish from a local fish store you are facing an uphill battle. They normally deal in the cheapest fish that they can get. This means that most LFS discus will never reach their potential regardless of what you do because of their past handling. There are exceptions to this rule and I have no clue about your local store. Discus raising is both a art and a science. it is also a fun journey of growth.

-john

Okay. 83.7 degrees is where the tank is now.
okay so they need more than three feedings a day?
I have researched food a bit and saw that Omega One flake food is the best type of flake food for discus. And i also use bloodworms.
so is that a good mixture of food for one day? flake food two or three times a day. And bloodworms once or twice a day?
And also I feed enough food so that eat it all. i was told feed enough so they can finish it all within 45 seconds by one person at a LFS.

Okay and i totally understand about the barebottom thing and why it is important. I was confused at first. It makes alot of sense because it is easier to have the highest quality of water possible with bare bottom.

thanks alot John!!!!! sorry for the late reply I have been trying to reply/log in everyday. I have to make time, sit down and reply to everything you guys are saying because it is important to me.

and bad news btw---> I went to check out that 75 gallon today! As soon as I saw it, it was a 55 gallon with stand...... Yes it sucks. The guy thought it was a 75 gallon tank with stand. He has also had it 12+ years and wants 130$ for it. It is worth it just looking at it, but then knowing how long he has had it is a different story. I think 100$ would have been a good price. If it was a 75 I would have snatched it up. 150 bucks with stand would have been a great deal. Tank and stand looks very nice for sure. It comes with a couple things also. He said he would take 130$ minimum. We weren't interested though, but enjoyed talking to him. Very nice person, great tank even with the age. We need a 75 gallon and it is going upstairs so I believe 75 gallon will be the maximum. Soooo yeah sad story guys....almost picked up 3 tanks today. Instead only got 2. Me and my wife have been buying up these steel "double" stands! great deal. They make double stands for two 10gallons, two 20L/29G, two 40B's, two 55's. A great idea, we ran into some at a LFS and researched online. They would budge on the price at the LFS, it was rusty and horrible condition! So we went online to Amazon and followed the link directly to Petsolutions. So in the good news the fish or shrimp room is growing fast! 4 20L tanks and a couple other tanks looking great with plenty more to come :)

[NanzB]

OMGGGG Chicago discus have some GREAT Discus!!! falling in love wow, even the 35$ and 55$ ones are great looking and great price. I really want a pair though. What is the best way to buy a pair? Is it only buying 7, more or less, of the same discus and seeing if they pair?
hopefully mine are a pair....still just enjoying and loving them though. Watching their behavior is very interesting.
Anyone have any way to see if they are male and female?
I heard a few ways but dont remember much. The line thing with the back of the fish and if it touches the top fin or not? I know im getting ahead of myself because mine are small. I am sure it is not only about being male and female they still have to pair as well.

[John_Nicholson]

I feed all of my discus my homemade beef heart mix twice a day. On getting a pair a good way is to get 6 to 10 small discus and grow them out. It takes time but you get to learn at each step of the game. You can buy pairs but that does not always work out. When you buy a proven pair it means that it has spawned and produced wigglers for the breeder. It does not mean that you can also get them to spawn. It normally works out but it is not guaranteed

-john.