Growing out in a planted tank - my 120g project

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, I know I'm really late getting this journal up and running. What can I say, it was summer time and the weather was too good for staying indoors - family to see, beaches to sit on...you get the picture.

To recap, I started with a group of 4 3.5" - 4" discus from Kenny back in late May. I choose to try growing them out in a semi-planted 120g tank simply because well, because I was curious! It was a challenge and I couldn't resist it.

Once I had some initial success in growing them, I added 5 more discus from Kenny in the first week of July. This time they were 2.5" - 3" and they were going into the same tank, which already had 1 8" discus and 4 6" discus in it. So it was a whole new challenge (the size difference) along with the planted tank challenge.

Between July and September I lost 2 of my discus. One just plain failed to thrive and was prone to illness as time went on. I chose to cull her rather than take a chance that eventually one of her illnesses would infect the rest of the tank.
The second discus had a run in with the glass one night when my husband walked by and banged into the tank with his backpack - with bear bells on it. He was more upset than I was when the fish fluttered to the bottom and died 2 hours later. I LOVED that little guy- he was part of my pair of golden lollipops. Waaah.

So I currently have 8 discus in my 120g along with 50+ cardinal tetras and 4 cories. I've never had a corydora elegans before and he's grown into a cute little guy. The other 3 corys are my ancient corydora sterbai's. I've them for what seems like forever, but it's actually only been since 2010.

So here are pics of the first group of discus when they arrived back in May.

90891

90892

90893

90894

90895

90896

The four new discus are the 2 Eruption Leopards, the Red Cover and the Rafflesia Throwback. The Raffie is the one I chose to cull.

Next post I'll add pics of the second group of discus.

[strawberryblonde]

Welp, I just went through all of my photo's from July and the ones that are the best/most usable are from the middle of July, so by then I'd had my little juvies for 2 weeks. They'd already grown over a 1/2" by then, but the pics will still give you a general idea of how small they were compared to the 6" older group.

Oh and I removed some of the plants and driftwood just before these pics were taken. They needed a good cleaning and stayed in a QT tank for a few days till I could get around to do that.

90897

90898

90899

90900

90901

Growth rates on both batches of discus have been right on par for all the groups I've grown out in the past 5 years. I average about 1" per month till they reach 5", then 1/2" per month till they reach 7", then they add another inch or two over the course of the next year of life.

[strawberryblonde]

Now that I've documented the 2 groups with pics, here's the basic feeding and water change schedule I've been using on this tank.

Feedings: 1 large flake feeding in the morning, 4 FDBW feedings (3 cubes each time) during the day, 2 frozen beefheart cubes and 1 variety Prime Reef cube at dinner.

Water Changes: 1 90% water change 1 hour after the beefheart feeding. Each night I vacuum the sand and shake the plants to loosen any food stuck in the them. Once a week on Sunday I do a deep clean, including a rinse of filter media in one of my filters.

I've had one fish who failed to thrive, the Raffie, so she was culled. I also had one incident where one of the Eruption Leopards got badly beaten up by the Red Cover and Golden Sunshine(the 8" male) because he got too curious while they were laying eggs. He had to be removed from the tank to heal up for a few days.

Other than that there haven't been any illnesses or problems with the grow out. They're all voracious eaters, though some are picky about what they like. The Eruption Leopards love flakes, hate beefheart. The Red Snakeskins hate flakes, tolerate worms and LOVE beefheart. LOL

[Filip]

What a colourfull strains you got there , they are beautiful.
I wish you good luck on raising them planted all the way.
What is your filtration and Wc regiment for this project ?
If you have some other tips or tricks for us to consider when growing in planted please share them too. :)

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Filip and thanks for the good wishes. So far it's going quite well, so I'm hopeful that both groups will grow out to their full potential. Still have several months to go though.

My filtration was 2 75g Aqueon HOB filters. I don't believe in that it's possible to over filter a tank as some here do, so I just stick with enough filtration to handle my bio-load. Inside the HOB filters I use poret foam.

Things have changed slightly in the last month because I made the decision to replace one of my HOB filters with 2 Hydro 5 sponge filters. I felt like the strong current at the top of the water was making 3 of my discus skittish during feeding times. Sure enough, once the HOB filter on the right side of the tank was removed, the 3 skittish discus began hanging out and eating with the rest of the group rather than hiding and eating food that fell to the bottom of the tank.

I also had a problem when the second HOB filter started to leak last week. I pulled it out and considered buying a new one, but found the crack in the bottom and sealed it with silicone and a piece of acrylic. The patch seems to be holding nicely and the filter is back in the tank now.

My water change schedule is the same as it's been for every group I've grown out. I do a 90% daily water change straight from my tap (Adjusted to the tank temp). I also vacuum the tank daily and wipe down the sides of the tank every other day. On the weekend I do a super clean which includes washing driftwood, cleaning any dirty plants and plant pots and rinsing the filter media on one filter per week.

As far as tips and tricks, the only thing I can say is that if you're new to discus, I do NOT recommend growing them out in a planted tank. I'm only trying this because I've been growing discus out in bare bottom tanks for a long time and know the ins and outs of raising them to their full potential. Since they're expensive fish, it's best to play it safe with them and use bare bottom tanks unless you're sure you know what you're doing.

Having said that, I've changed the way I planted my tank and found the newer method works much better. I have about 1 inch of sand on the bottom of the tank. I placed all of my plants into homemade soft plant holders with gravel in them, then placed those little soft pots into my glass containers and filled with more gravel. For plants that need to spread their roots, I simply placed the soft pots right on top of the sand so that the roots can sprout out of the squishy pot and into the sandy bottom.

Doing my plants that way makes it super easy to move them around during cleaning and to lift them out for maintenance when needed.

I do NOT add ferts or CO2. I use all low light plants and they suffer a bit because of the lack of fertilizers and CO2, but still grow nicely and the important thing is that my discus grow well.

I used to have much larger pieces of driftwood in the tank, but found that the constant feedings in the tank led to the driftwood becoming a home for rotting, slimy food bits - ew! Now I just have one smallish piece of driftwood in the tank and it gets cleaned once a week.

I think that's it for now - I can't think of anything else special that I do.

[strawberryblonde]

These are pics from the end of July when the youngest group reached one full month in my tank. They had grown a full inch each and were 3.5"-4.5".

90902

90903

90904

90905

And yup, these were taken with a different camera! I bought a point and click that received excellent ratings for it's ability to photograph in odd lighting conditions. The ratings were dead on, and for the first time I managed to get great pictures of my discus. =)

[strawberryblonde]

And here are current pics of my tank.

Other than changing how I plant my plants, how much driftwood is in the tank, and what filtration methods I'm using, the only other big change is the addition of rooibos tea extract.

I learned about it through Pat here on the boards and through research on the internet. I particularly liked it's anti-viral and anti-fungal properties and also liked the price and the fact that, unlike other extracts, it doens't lower pH. Oh and I like the tea stained color of the water! LOL

So in these pics you'll see that not only have my juvies caught up to the older group in size, but the tank water is tinted yellow.

90906

90907

90908

90909

90910

90911

90912

90913

[rickztahone]

Very nice Toni. Some big boys in there!

[strawberryblonde]

Awww, thanks Ricardo. So far I'm really pleased with how fast they've grown. The yellows seem to be lagging a bit behind the reds, but in the last 2 weeks they've been catching up a bit. Then again, the reds were the larger of the juvies and the yellow were just teensy lil things in July. LOL

If these guys reach 7" I'll consider the project a complete success. If they reach 8" I'll be jumping with joy.

[Chad Hughes]

I love the project and the fish look GREAT!

Well done!

[strawberryblonde]

Thank you Chad! That's high praise coming from you, since as I recall you've raised an entire batch of fry in a planted tank with great results, right?

I'm a total newbie compared to you. =)

I was hoping to get some pics of my guys this morning for documentation purposes, but the poor things are all stressed out because we had a power outage during the night and when the power kicked back on so did my LED lights, on bright white and full wattage.

I took pity on them when it became obvious that they weren't going to just get over it and eat breakfast like normal. Now they are happily sleeping in an unlighted tank and thank goodness that the reason for the outage was severe storms because it means that it's overcast and there's no sunlight streaming into the tank.

[Chad Hughes]

Toni,

Sorry to hear about your power outage. Those unexpected surprises are never pleasant.

Yes, I participated in one of the discus grow out challenges using a planted tank with tremendous results. I demonstrated that it could be done and you're doing the same!

I'm looking forward to any updates.

[pamdb33]

Great looking tank! The discus are beautiful.

[walt]

Great looking tank I have a planted tank started in November coming up on one year started with 3" discus my largest are 6" inches all above 5". Been a fishkeeper my whole life but never discus. Didn't listen to people like yourself in the beginning now wc regimen is up to par, also what kind of camera are you using pics are great. Again love your tank!

[strawberryblonde]

Thanks Walt,

My new camera is a Canon Powershot ELPH 130 is. You can read about it here http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_elph_130_is

It's particularly good in low lighting, which is what I needed since the best time of day for me to take pics is at night and by then the lighting is on low for the discus. It also seems to handle bright light fairly well, though I still have to put up with a lot of reflections during the day shots.

[Filip]

Thanks for the advices Toni.
Again, i really like your mixed selection of strains and colours and the discus lookin great.
I liked your first setup better and from photos here it also appears much wider.
Maybe its that huge Echinodorus that narrows it a bit.
Lookin forward to track your project/progres.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Filip,

I liked the first setup better too as far as looks go, but the second one makes it a whole lot easier to keep the tank pristine and healthy for my growing babies.

That huge Sword plant was sent to me for free, so I'm tolerating it in the tank for now. Wish I could get my bigger driftwood back in there, but can't so it's sword plants all the way. LOL

[Jack L]

they are crazy bursting with color! nice pics

glad to see i'm not the only crazy one that grew in planted tank.

i have a question though, once the tank is established, and as long as you do NOT add new fish...how would have a virus problem?

[Jack L]

Now that I've documented the 2 groups with pics, here's the basic feeding and water change schedule I've been using on this tank.

Feedings: 1 large flake feeding in the morning, 4 FDBW feedings (3 cubes each time) during the day, 2 frozen beefheart cubes and 1 variety Prime Reef cube at dinner.

Water Changes: 1 90% water change 1 hour after the beefheart feeding. Each night I vacuum the sand and shake the plants to loosen any food stuck in the them. Once a week on Sunday I do a deep clean, including a rinse of filter media in one of my filters.

I've had one fish who failed to thrive, the Raffie, so she was culled. I also had one incident where one of the Eruption Leopards got badly beaten up by the Red Cover and Golden Sunshine(the 8" male) because he got too curious while they were laying eggs. He had to be removed from the tank to heal up for a few days.

Other than that there haven't been any illnesses or problems with the grow out. They're all voracious eaters, though some are picky about what they like. The Eruption Leopards love flakes, hate beefheart. The Red Snakeskins hate flakes, tolerate worms and LOVE beefheart. LOL

how do you vacuum you sand?

[strawberryblonde]

they are crazy bursting with color! nice pics

glad to see i'm not the only crazy one that grew in planted tank.

i have a question though, once the tank is established, and as long as you do NOT add new fish...how would have a virus problem?

My tank is never truly static, and my hands are never totally free of pathogens when I put them in the tank, so if I can add the rooibos tea extract and maintain a nice level of algicide, anti-fungal and anti-viral compounds in it, I'm happy.

You asked about vacuuming the sand, right? It's pretty easy. I use a python siphon, so I just sweep it gently over the top of the sand and it picks up all the detritus. Since my plants aren't totally dependent on mulm in the sand for nutrients, it works out well for me.

I've been watching your journal for pics of the growth of your discus. You have a gorgeous tank! How's the lighting working out for you? Mine is still doing well and even the vals seem to like it.

[Jack L]

My tank is never truly static, and my hands are never totally free of pathogens when I put them in the tank, so if I can add the rooibos tea extract and maintain a nice level of algicide, anti-fungal and anti-viral compounds in it, I'm happy.

You asked about vacuuming the sand, right? It's pretty easy. I use a python siphon, so I just sweep it gently over the top of the sand and it picks up all the detritus. Since my plants aren't totally dependent on mulm in the sand for nutrients, it works out well for me.

I've been watching your journal for pics of the growth of your discus. You have a gorgeous tank! How's the lighting working out for you? Mine is still doing well and even the vals seem to like it.

germs: i'm careful when i got between q tank and display tank. i didn't used to be, but after so much ich i've gotten a LOT more conscientious. i didn't think about bringing germs in from non aquarium sources though.


thanks for complement on tank!

sand, okay...well i can't use the phyton end because i can't maneuver it around the the wood/rock/plant.
i'm testing out some aqua media as a sand replacement. the plants should be doing better then they are, i think the sand is the reason.
the aquatic media claims it doesn't affect water, however not the case, its lowers the pH and adds a smidge of ammonia, but i think the plants will benefit from that

light is working fine. i've been contemplating buying another one to get more light in front and back of tank, but i don't want an algea problem.

[pastry]

how do you vacuum you sand?

Her secret is that while vacuuming her boobs are in the tank. Pat does the same. Really sucks for us guys unless we have man-boobs. She'll laugh but that's the secret. Makes you wonder why they get so big... And it's not the potatoes.... I tried

[strawberryblonde]

germs: i'm careful when i got between q tank and display tank. i didn't used to be, but after so much ich i've gotten a LOT more conscientious. i didn't think about bringing germs in from non aquarium sources though.


thanks for complement on tank!

sand, okay...well i can't use the phyton end because i can't maneuver it around the the wood/rock/plant.
i'm testing out some aqua media as a sand replacement. the plants should be doing better then they are, i think the sand is the reason.
the aquatic media claims it doesn't affect water, however not the case, its lowers the pH and adds a smidge of ammonia, but i think the plants will benefit from that

light is working fine. i've been contemplating buying another one to get more light in front and back of tank, but i don't want an algea problem.

Yep, I'm as careful as I can be about not cross contaminating when I have fish in QT, so I hear you on that one.

For getting around the rocks, driftwood and plants, I just arranged them carefully and left just enough space between them so that I can maneuver the python. It's really tight at the left end now that I have that huge sword in there. The heater is hiding behind it and tends to trap bits of crud. I'm thinking about moving the heater to the other side just to make it easier on myself. I guess that's the thing when you have plants, driftwood, rocks AND discus. You have to sacrifice a bit of the natural beauty in order to make it simpler to clean.

[Jack L]

Yep, I'm as careful as I can be about not cross contaminating when I have fish in QT, so I hear you on that one.

For getting around the rocks, driftwood and plants, I just arranged them carefully and left just enough space between them so that I can maneuver the python. It's really tight at the left end now that I have that huge sword in there. The heater is hiding behind it and tends to trap bits of crud. I'm thinking about moving the heater to the other side just to make it easier on myself. I guess that's the thing when you have plants, driftwood, rocks AND discus. You have to sacrifice a bit of the natural beauty in order to make it simpler to clean.

yeah well i removed about 5 pieces of wood and 5 stones a while back for same reason. i just use the hose, zip tied to a dowel rod, the hose works, but if i get it to the sand, it pulls the sand straight out, no chance to churn in the python tube

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, I had originally planned to update the progress of my growing little buggers about just once a month, but today when I went to feed them I realized that the red snakeskins have gotten huge and I just had to snap some quick pics of them swimming around with my 8" golden sunshine.

So these red guys were 3" in July. And the Lollipop in the pics was about 2.75" if I crossed my eyes and pulled on his tail a bit. (He was the smallest of the entire group) Ok ok, he was closer to 2.5" than 2.75".

Now the older group of grow outs is officially 6" and 2 are 6.5". They still have another year of growing to do, so they hopefully will make it to at least 7". Only one of the older group wanted to pose for pics today. The female RC, one of the leopards and the yellow checkerboard were all foraging in the sword plant for leftover blackworms.

Excuse the mess in the tank. I pulled EVERYTHING yesterday in order to do my weekly huge scrub down and I was too tired to be bothered with arranging things nicely when I plopped the plants and driftwood back in. Oh and I usually hide the airline tubing, or at least straighten it out and move it to the corners so that it doesn't show. Uh huh, might get the tank looking pretty again before scrub down day next Sunday. LOL

The discus. I'm thinking the red snakeskins must be pushing 7", which means that they grew an inch in under a month! You can measure them by comparing to the 6" leopard in the pics. And the Lollipop is definitely well over 6" now.

91438

91439

91440

91441

91442

I'm pretty excited to see the sudden growth spurt! These guys are still SO young and have a lot more growing to do.

[pastry]

Toni, where's the RC? All are looking great by the way!

[strawberryblonde]

LOL, she's IN the sword plant Elliot! She and one of the leopards, plus the yellow checkerboard all head in there to find leftover blackworms after every feeding. And that thing is so big and dense that I have a hard time spotting them at all!

[Jack L]

Ok, I had originally planned to update the progress of my growing little buggers about just once a month, but today when I went to feed them I realized that the red snakeskins have gotten huge and I just had to snap some quick pics of them swimming around with my 8" golden sunshine.

So these red guys were 3" in July. And the Lollipop in the pics was about 2.75" if I crossed my eyes and pulled on his tail a bit. (He was the smallest of the entire group) Ok ok, he was closer to 2.5" than 2.75".

Now the older group of grow outs is officially 6" and 2 are 6.5". They still have another year of growing to do, so they hopefully will make it to at least 7". Only one of the older group wanted to pose for pics today. The female RC, one of the leopards and the yellow checkerboard were all foraging in the sword plant for leftover blackworms.

Excuse the mess in the tank. I pulled EVERYTHING yesterday in order to do my weekly huge scrub down and I was too tired to be bothered with arranging things nicely when I plopped the plants and driftwood back in. Oh and I usually hide the airline tubing, or at least straighten it out and move it to the corners so that it doesn't show. Uh huh, might get the tank looking pretty again before scrub down day next Sunday. LOL

The discus. I'm thinking the red snakeskins must be pushing 7", which means that they grew an inch in under a month! You can measure them by comparing to the 6" leopard in the pics. And the Lollipop is definitely well over 6" now.

91438

91439

91440

91441

91442

I'm pretty excited to see the sudden growth spurt! These guys are still SO young and have a lot more growing to do.

the white ones face looks different than other Ds....is that something with that strain?

[strawberryblonde]

I'm not sure what you mean by different. Maybe because it's much fatter? He's an older discus - nearly 6 years old now. The others are all less than a year old and basically still sub-adults. They'll get fat heads like him in another year or so. (he's so fat that his eyes actually stick out a bit on the sides of his head...hehehe)

If you look at the bottom pic you can see just how fat his entire body is. He's a pretty normal mature male I think. At least, all of my other males that age look like that.

[Jack L]

I'm not sure what you mean by different. Maybe because it's much fatter? He's an older discus - nearly 6 years old now. The others are all less than a year old and basically still sub-adults. They'll get fat heads like him in another year or so. (he's so fat that his eyes actually stick out a bit on the sides of his head...hehehe)

If you look at the bottom pic you can see just how fat his entire body is. He's a pretty normal mature male I think. At least, all of my other males that age look like that.

yeah, the orange bulge....so that comes w/ age...thanks.

[strawberryblonde]

Just as a comparison, I went and dug up a pic of the golden sunshine along side one of the snakeskins from 3 weeks ago.

91443

I should have added it to the original post today to show more clearly just how big the growth spurt has been this month.

[strawberryblonde]

yeah, the orange bulge....so that comes w/ age...thanks.

Yep, the bulge comes with age, but the orange color is his own "special" thing. LOL

He was sent to me as a Golden Sunshine. They have a mottled appearance, white and orange on a yellow background. But this guy decided he didn't want to be a spotty yellow fish. So the only orange is on his nose and he's pale pink instead of yellow. He often gets mistaken for a silver pigeon, but the orange nose is a dead giveaway that he's not a silver.

[pastry]

LOL, she's IN the sword plant Elliot! She and one of the leopards, plus the yellow checkerboard all head in there to find leftover blackworms after every feeding. And that thing is so big and dense that I have a hard time spotting them at all!

:p

...and how do you know it's a she?

[strawberryblonde]

Ohhhh, well, because she's already laid several clutches of eggs and the last 2 went free swimming. But that was over a month ago and since then she's been totally ignoring the GS in favor of eating out of the sword plant. LOL

[pastry]

That's because she's still waiting on you to buy here a big brown-based red stud ;). And me and her know you have the tank space!

[Siddhartha Saive]

90% wc every day:D
I'm sure your discus will turn out great Toni :) They already look amazing.
One suggestion I'd like to give is you don't need to use gravel for the plants. You can grow any plant in sand just fine.. even most of the high tech plants with enough CO2 and EI fertiliser dosing.
Changing so much water frequently is good for the plants too as it brings in dissolved CO2 in the fresh water. So you don't need CO2 dosing... but need to dose ferts for better growth. I'm sure your discus will do fine with low tech EI dosing (at 1/3rd or 1/4th of recommened dose for your tank size per week) but you need to dose that amount daily since you change so much water everyday. You can look into using DIY fertilisers instead of branded ones( at least 10 x cheaper)

I use sand in all my planted tanks. I never vacum the substrate.
Use a thick layer of sand.. 2.5" minimum as this depth is necessary for plants to root properly and it looks better :)
All the detritus will only collect on top of the fine sand and nothing seeps into it( unlike coarse gravel... waste gets into it and is a pain in the a** to clean). You will never need to clean the sand.
Have enough flow in the tank (or aim your flow towards the sand) so that this detritus doesn't settle on the sand and stays in the water column. This will then be removed from the water by your filter... sump or canister or HOB etc.. if you have a big enough filter you will only need to clean them occasionally... since you change so much water daily.

[strawberryblonde]

One suggestion I'd like to give is you don't need to use gravel for the plants. You can grow any plant in sand just fine.. even most of the high tech plants with enough CO2 and EI fertiliser dosing.
Changing so much water frequently is good for the plants too as it brings in dissolved CO2 in the fresh water. So you don't need CO2 dosing... but need to dose ferts for better growth. I'm sure your discus will do fine with low tech EI dosing (at 1/3rd or 1/4th of recommened dose for your tank size per week) but you need to dose that amount daily since you change so much water everyday. You can look into using DIY fertilisers instead of branded ones( at least 10 x cheaper)

I use sand in all my planted tanks. I never vacum the substrate.
Use a thick layer of sand.. 2.5" minimum as this depth is necessary for plants to root properly and it looks better :)
All the detritus will only collect on top of the fine sand and nothing seeps into it( unlike coarse gravel... waste gets into it and is a pain in the a** to clean). You will never need to clean the sand.
Have enough flow in the tank (or aim your flow towards the sand) so that this detritus doesn't settle on the sand and stays in the water column. This will then be removed from the water by your filter... sump or canister or HOB etc.. if you have a big enough filter you will only need to clean them occasionally... since you change so much water daily.

Thanks for the ideas. I'm not sure why you thought I have a gravel substrate, but it's sand. The only gravel in the tank is in the squishy pots and that's because it's easier to manipulate than sand in those pots.

Your suggestions for growing plants is great, I just have no interest in growing plants. =)

My discus come first and the plants were just a challenge for me to see if I could grow discus in a lightly planted tank with a sand substrate. I do enjoy sword plants, but beyond that, plants are just a big pita to me.LOL

Ohhhhhh, I should also mention that I tried deep sand and plants once - just once. This tank is 32" tall, which means that I can't reach the bottom. So, I used plant anchors to try to made it easier to get them to stay firmly planted till their root systems took hold. And every day I'd be chest deep in the water replanting the ones that my cories and discus uprooted during the night. It was maddening and I don't do maddening very well. I like it simple, clean and as easy as possible. If this was a standard tank (longer than it is tall) I might try it again with something other than discus, but it's not, so that will never happen.

[Siddhartha Saive]

Your suggestions for growing plants is great, I just have no interest in growing plants. =)


Enough said lol :D

I was trying to say you could do with much less maintenance than what you are doing currently(weekly scrub down? I'd never even dream of doin it;) ).. even if you want to try a fully planted tank in the future.

You sure do love your discus to put in so much effort. Bravo

[strawberryblonde]

LOL, I am a bit of a discus fanatic! But then again, once I saw the results of growing them out in optimal conditions I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.

And I swear that one of these days I'm going to take pics of my tank just before my weekly scrub down and then pics after I do the scrub and before I siphon out all the crud. Because I do a thorough siphon job on my tank every day during my 90% WC's and my tank looks spotless all week long. You'd never dream that there's a ton of crud hidden in it! Till I do the scrub down that is.

I drain about a foot of water out, turn off the siphon and then scrub the bottom, stir the sand, remove the sponge filters and heater to clean them, take out the driftwood and then scrub the sides down. And the water is GROSS! It's full of floating gunk. I then let it all sit for 15 minutes till it settles onto the bottom, then siphon it out and continue with the water change.

So why do I do it this way? (I do this even when I have a bare bottom tank with no plants)

Because you can grow discus from these little 4" guys:

91453

To this - in just 18 months:

91454

91455

91456

91457

[Skip]

So why do I do it this way? (I do this even when I have a bare bottom tank with no plants)

Because you can grow discus from these little 4" guys:

91453

To this - in just 18 months:

91454

91455

91456

91457

YET PEOPLE STILL WANT TO DO IT OTHER WAYS!! Smh

[strawberryblonde]

Yep Skip, and I'm actually doing it another way this time around, but with lots of experience and dedication to clean water. And this is the ONLY time I'll ever grow out discus with plants - ugh!!! LOL

I actually had to grin and roll my eyes when I saw that first pic of my little 4" stendkers from so many years ago. Plants and sand in that tiny little tank - what WAS I thinking???

Thank goodness I came to my senses and yanked it all out of there, huh? It was pretty, but goodness, trying to do 2 daily water changes with all that stuff in there was such a pain in the butt.

[rickztahone]

Toni, as you know I commented on another thread about your huge amazon covering the sponge filter. May I make a suggestion? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in the suggestion, but have you considered using the black air line tubing? That would blend so well with your background and it is actually a little more rigid and you can use the little suction cups and pin it to the back. They would basically dissapear in your tank. Just a friendly suggestion :)

Your measurement pics are awesome. I hope to get at least 1x 8"+ discus out of my group :)

[strawberryblonde]

Toni, as you know I commented on another thread about your huge amazon covering the sponge filter. May I make a suggestion? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in the suggestion, but have you considered using the black air line tubing? That would blend so well with your background and it is actually a little more rigid and you can use the little suction cups and pin it to the back. They would basically dissapear in your tank. Just a friendly suggestion :)

Your measurement pics are awesome. I hope to get at least 1x 8"+ discus out of my group :)

YES!!! Every time I look at those air lines I think to myself that I really need to go order some black tubing. LOL

I had tons and tons of the clear stuff from back when the background was that pale greenish color and I'm too scottish to go buy new black tubing if I have perfectly good clear stuff. But yes, I totally agree that it would look a heck of a lot better. Oh and you aren't being presumptuous at all! =)

I've been watching your grow out thread and I'd bet that you'll get several 8"+ discus out of that group. You're doing an awesome job of raising them!

[rickztahone]

YES!!! Every time I look at those air lines I think to myself that I really need to go order some black tubing. LOL

I had tons and tons of the clear stuff from back when the background was that pale greenish color and I'm too scottish to go buy new black tubing if I have perfectly good clear stuff. But yes, I totally agree that it would look a heck of a lot better. Oh and you aren't being presumptuous at all! =)

I've been watching your grow out thread and I'd bet that you'll get several 8"+ discus out of that group. You're doing an awesome job of raising them!

Thanks Toni :). Luckily for me I have a large(ish) group where I can cherry pick and sell off the rest. I can only imagine a tank full of 7 to 8" monsters!

You are doing a bang up job too Toni. I know we discourage many hobbyists from planted tanks, but it does that more skill than usual to do a planted tank and grow out some nice discus like you have here. Not anyone can do that. That is why I always say it isn't impossible, but it isn't easy to do it either.

[Siddhartha Saive]

So why do I do it this way? (I do this even when I have a bare bottom tank with no plants)

Because you can grow discus from these little 4" guys:

91453

To this - in just 18 months:

91454

91455

91456

91457

Woww. Those are absolutely stunning.
I'm upping my water changes now:p

[Jack L]

LOL, I am a bit of a discus fanatic! But then again, once I saw the results of growing them out in optimal conditions I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.

And I swear that one of these days I'm going to take pics of my tank just before my weekly scrub down and then pics after I do the scrub and before I siphon out all the crud. Because I do a thorough siphon job on my tank every day during my 90% WC's and my tank looks spotless all week long. You'd never dream that there's a ton of crud hidden in it! Till I do the scrub down that is.

I drain about a foot of water out, turn off the siphon and then scrub the bottom, stir the sand, remove the sponge filters and heater to clean them, take out the driftwood and then scrub the sides down. And the water is GROSS! It's full of floating gunk. I then let it all sit for 15 minutes till it settles onto the bottom, then siphon it out and continue with the water change.

So why do I do it this way? (I do this even when I have a bare bottom tank with no plants)

Because you can grow discus from these little 4" guys:

91453

To this - in just 18 months:

91454

91455

91456

91457

they are LARGE

[pastry]

they are LARGE

Yep, Toni ain't no rookie. She's plent experienced. Handeled some pretty large ones in her day ;). All jokes aside, she'll come off humble but knows darn well what she is doing. She's one that helps me out when asked.

[fishguy456]

Welp, I just went through all of my photo's from July and the ones that are the best/most usable are from the middle of July, so by then I'd had my little juvies for 2 weeks. They'd already grown over a 1/2" by then, but the pics will still give you a general idea of how small they were compared to the 6" older group.

Oh and I removed some of the plants and driftwood just before these pics were taken. They needed a good cleaning and stayed in a QT tank for a few days till I could get around to do that.


90897

90898

90899

90900

90901

Growth rates on both batches of discus have been right on par for all the groups I've grown out in the past 5 years. I average about 1" per month till they reach 5", then 1/2" per month till they reach 7", then they add another inch or two over the course of the next year of life.
on the last picture of this post is the eruption leopard the one in the middle? Trying to figure out what mine will grow to look like :)

[strawberryblonde]

Yuppers David, the one in the middle is one of my eruption leopards.

If you look at the pictures in the very first post on this thread all of the blue fish are the eruptions too.

They've grown quite a bit since then but the colors and patterns have remained the same. Blue with spots, but when they turn just right in the light they have a yellow glow to them. They're very very pretty fish!

I only wish mine had redder eyes. The eyes ARE red, but with the black barring on the head they appear a lot darker than my other discus... more like a deep dark red and from a distance they just look black eyed.

[Jack L]

do you know the size of the parents?

[MKD]

Wow Toni!!! They are big and beautiful. You have done awesome job.
Thank you for sharing.
Tony

[strawberryblonde]

do you know the size of the parents?

Nope, no clue at all. I buy all my discus from Hans and Kenny, so I'm sure the parents are in good health and at least average in size.

[Kyla]

beautiful fish, u put my maintenance routine to shame! def gotta up my game.

u mentioned a soft-sided plant pot... i havent head of these. what r they made of? is it like a baggie? do they disintegrate over time? where did u get them?

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Kyla,

I make my little pots that I call "squishy pots".

I buy cheap pantyhose in a color to closely match the color of the sand in my tank. Then I start by cutting the feet off of them for the first 2 planters.

Just fill them with a mix of sand and fine gravel, or just gravel, or just sand. You can add a plant tab if your plant requires more nutrients at the roots (swords in particular get their nutrients through their roots). Pull up the piece of pantyhose to settle the gravel mix at the bottom and then roll down the top till you get to the gravel. Then stuff the plant roots into the gravel mix, than use a rubberband to loosely wrap around the base of the plant, just above the roots. You can squish the pot around a bit once the rubberband is in place in order to get it nice and tight around the root system.

The last thing to do is to pull all that rolled up part of the pantyhose down over the pot you made, then tie a tight knot in it at the bottom of the pot. It creates a nice tight ball and gives it a double thickness of material so that the pot won't split open when you move it around.

As the plant grows, the roots will grow right out of the sides and bottom of the pot. Once the pot is nearly invisible because of roots everywhere, repeat the procedure with a new piece of pantyhose. Just add more gravel mix and nestle the roots, along with the first plant pot, right inside the second one you've created. There's no need to pull the plant out of the first pot. =)

Ohhhh, to make more pots, cut an 8" length of pantyhose and knot the bottom, then proceed as above for the footed sections of the pantyhose.

[Boyd Luth]

Very, very nice Toni :-) I am still learning from you. Appreciate all your help in the beginning. I enjoy planted, low light plants. Thanks again, Boyd.

[Filip]

Hi Kyla,

I make my little pots that I call "squishy pots".

I buy cheap pantyhose in a color to closely match the color of the sand in my tank. Then I start by cutting the feet off of them for the first 2 planters.

Just fill them with a mix of sand and fine gravel, or just gravel, or just sand. You can add a plant tab if your plant requires more nutrients at the roots (swords in particular get their nutrients through their roots). Pull up the piece of pantyhose to settle the gravel mix at the bottom and then roll down the top till you get to the gravel. Then stuff the plant roots into the gravel mix, than use a rubberband to loosely wrap around the base of the plant, just above the roots. You can squish the pot around a bit once the rubberband is in place in order to get it nice and tight around the root system.

The last thing to do is to pull all that rolled up part of the pantyhose down over the pot you made, then tie a tight knot in it at the bottom of the pot. It creates a nice tight ball and gives it a double thickness of material so that the pot won't split open when you move it around.

As the plant grows, the roots will grow right out of the sides and bottom of the pot. Once the pot is nearly invisible because of roots everywhere, repeat the procedure with a new piece of pantyhose. Just add more gravel mix and nestle the roots, along with the first plant pot, right inside the second one you've created. There's no need to pull the plant out of the first pot. =)

Ohhhh, to make more pots, cut an 8" length of pantyhose and knot the bottom, then proceed as above for the footed sections of the pantyhose.




Sorry to go a bit offtopic in your growout thread Toni , but im interested in this potting method you explained , but i didnt quite understand it . :confused:
I get quite frustrated when i spill the pots and gravel during my siphoning and it just happens often, so maybe your method can help me .

Do you pot the plant entirely in a sock or you just use the sock to cap the pots and prevent spilling gravel?
if you just cap and close the pots , please explain how you do it?
And what if i pot the plant entirely in just a sock and use a rubber band , have you tried this ?

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Filip,

I've never tried using a sock, simply because I'm cheap and they are expensive if you can only use one per pot. With pantyhose I can make up to 8 pots per leg of the pantyhose, so 16 total pots of varying sizes. (Did I mention that I'm Scottish? Yup, we're cheap and proud of it! lol)

I don't cap pots, I create the pot out of the piece of pantyhose. I just cut off a length of about 5 inches for small pots and 8" for big pots. Put a knot at the bottom of the length of hose, then fill it with a mix of sand and gravel. Add a plant tab if you need one, then nestle the roots of the plant into the mix. It helps if you use a damp sand/gravel mixture. Once that's done, place the rubberband around the pantyhose piece right at the base of the plant. Then pull the extra bit of pantyhose (it will be bunched up around the plant by now) down and over the pot you just made. That covers up the rubberband. Tie another knot in that piece you just pulled all the way down to the bottom of the pot. Now it's extra thick so it won't split open.

You can pick them up, shove them around and they move very easily.

If you look at some of the pics of my plants in this journal you can see the vals and a couple of other plants in the little squishy pots. My other plants are sitting in actual pots, but inside the pots are the squishy pots. And I agree, I tip over my ceramic pots ALL the time - drives me nuts! LOL

[Kyla]

that is a very cool idea!! thanks for the detailed response :) next time im potting plants im going to try this out for sure

[Filip]

Thanks for your time and patience Toni.
I've got it this time.
Next potting I'll try the pantyhose method.
Enough frustration with spilled pots and uprooted plants.

[rickztahone]

I see a video in your future Toni! The pantyhose planter!

That's what your video title should be. Bet you no one else has it! :)