A few questions from a first time discus keeper

[S10blazin]

Ill start by saying I have been pouring through as much of the beginner stickies as I can but still have a few questions. And would like to verify I'm setting everything up right. I have been keeping fish for many years but am new to discus and am trying to make sure I'm going in the right direction.

First ill start with my setup I have a 125 gallon aquarium
2 Eheim 2217 canister filters
2 long aerator tubes at the back of the aquarium
I will be running 2 Hydor external 300 watt heaters with a Ranco controller
I have a minimal gravel cover (you can still see glass in some spots so it should be easy to keep clean)
I also plan on using a few peices of driftwood and fake plants and river rock for decoration and to cover filter intakes etc (these and the gravel are a wife requirement)

My stocking Plan is going to be:

6 Discus (from discus Hans 2.5 or 3+")
15 harlequins
10 panda cories
4? blue rams
I'm currently doing a fish less cycle I will then add all the fish from the local fish store wait 6 weeks then order the discus

My questions are
Is my stocking ok?
Should I or can I add or remove to what I have in the stock list? I would rather maintain a lower stock rather than hurting a bunch of fish and wasting a bunch of money especially on a first attempt.
I know everyone says frequent water changes and and quality foods are key
how is everyone determining how much water to change and how often?
Am I looking for nitrates to stay low? Every other type of fish I have kept have been fine with weekly water changes (this maintains low nitrates and what would be considered a clean tank).
I'm kind of looking for why water is changed so frequently so i can check for it and maintain the tank properly.
Also when doing water changes everyone seems to be going straight from the tap are you putting in dechlorinator and then using cold tap water and letting the heaters bring it up or are you mixing in warm water from the home water heater?
Me and my wife both work so feeding multiple times a day can be difficult Discus Hans is selling a discus flake can i feed that to them in the morning and then his beef mix when i get home and then again before bed. aprox 7 am 5-630 pm and then 11 pm
What is the best way to determine how much to feed as from what I'm reading discus can be slow eaters. Does the whatever they can eat in 2 minutes still apply?

I'm sure some or all of this has been answered but I'm having trouble finding specifics.
Thank you for any help in advance
Dave

[pitdogg2]

Welcome to Simply Discus


one key ingredient is missing.....you're putting fish in from LFS then going to put Discus that are very pricey in later??? I think you have this backwards sport, nowhere did you mention any quarantine of any of the fish. IF you end up with a problem that 125 is going to be pricey to keep medications in when you have an outbreak of some parasite or other bacterial/fungus malady.

I'd get the discus then worry about all the other stuff AFTER you're sure you can manage taking care of the Discus. I change out 60-80% water daily I also age it first in another 55gal aquarium for at least 24hrs. to let the pH stabilize and use straight tap. You want you water to be no more than a few degrees different that the current tank conditions. Swings of 5degrees or so can stress your fish if on a constant basis(daily). enough temperature change can induce ICK

[S10blazin]

the fish from the local store will be in for 6 weeks before I add the discus. At least that is my current plan basically qt them together before adding the more expensive fish while keeping the tank cycled. If i have an issue I can move them to a empty 75 to treat. Normally I just fill very slowly via hose straight from the tap so the heaters can keep the temp I have very little ph bounce in my tap water. What led you to the 60-80% daily number is one of my questions is that just because its what is commonly done or is there something you can test for to see how much it needs?

[Filip]

Hi Dave and good luck with first time keeping Discus.
You should watch the 1:30 hour video from the founder of simply discus. Its very educational especially for begginers. You can find it in general discussions forum by the thread name how to keep discus...
Also you should read the second sticky from begginer section about bioload and biomass.
These two can give you a general idea on question that bothers any new discus keeper and that is why so many water changes.
In short terms, its not only about nitrates ,but it has a lot to do with bacteria,parasites and other nasties that live in water column and especially in the gunk of substrate and filters,and discus are more than any other fish suspectable to them.
So the rule here is ,the more you can do ,the better growout.

As for WCs,aged water is prefered ,but some use it straight tap water with dechlorinator(i use straight tap with seachem safe powder). Temp. Must remain same or 1-2 degrees max.fluctuations.
As for feeding ,i bought an automatic feeder to help me out while im at work.i still feed 3 times my self.
I turn off the filters while feeding ,wait 15 min. So discus can eat all remainings then turn the filters on .No 2 min feeding rule apply with discus.

[pitdogg2]

many fish can carry things that can and will kill others fish yet themselves never come down with said problem i.e. Carriers. Small fish like you're getting need LOTS of clean water to grow correctly and NOT be stunted in the long run. You would be better served with a discus only tank since you are so new to the fish. Other fish can and do live very well with infrequent water changes these are not them. IF you bought full sized adults then you would feed less often and maybe change water once a week at a minimum, Personally I'd still do daily poop sucking and twice a week major water change. My adults still get daily water changes and are constantly laying eggs. Many come through here and fail with Discus after keeping fish for YEARS, the same people will always wonder why their fish are always sick or just not doing well. Work on keeping the Discus first then work on a Discus community tank and it will be MUCH easier to have a bare bottom tank to keep clean.

[S10blazin]

I have already watched the video and found it very informative. While I believe I understand the BIOload/mass issue the pathogens and bacteria it refers to that feed on it traditionally go up with your nitrates that's what shows how much bacteria is breaking things down in your tank. At least as I have always understood it. Maybe I can talk the Mrs into geting fish that are further grown because a daily 60-80% water change is probably going to be to much with my schedule. The most I can probably mange is maybe 3 times a week. Either that or will have to look at keeping something else.

[S10blazin]

Thanks guys I may do that and once the dicus are grown i can qt and add community fish to the tank.

[S10blazin]

Also which automatic feeder do you use and are you feeding flake with it i could set timers on the filters so they shut off when the auto feeder triggers

[discuspaul]

Welcome to the forum, Dave.
Simply put, the key to successful discus-keeping for a novice is largely dependent on the size (and quality) of the discus acquired at the outset.

In your case Dave, if your daily schedule, lifestyle, and inclination will not allow you to do more than 1 or 2 large wcs per week, and feed your fish no more than once or twice a day, then getting discus no larger than 2.5"-3" is really out of the question for you, particularly if you must have some gravel substrate, some plants (fake or real), and some décor. Otherwise, you risk raising poorly developed, and/or badly-shaped or stunted fish.

If your wallet won't permit you to get minimum 4" sized fish right away, then delay your start with discus until that approach is affordable.

And if you want tank-mates for your discus, start with the discus first as others have said, and do a proper diligent quarantine before introducing any other strains of fish into the discus tank. We can walk you through a proper quarantine upon request.
Give yourself a chance - do things right.
Good luck to you.

[MendoMan]

Forget the other fish. If you want to drastically increase your odds of success with good quality Discus start the tank up with a fish less cycle and then stock only Discus. It would also help a great deal to go bare bottom.

[rickztahone]

I will address one recurring question you had in OP, and that is WHY we do so many water changes. The answer is easy, we feed a lot, and we feed a very messy food, Beef Heart. If beefheart is left on the tank floor for a couple of days and a discus eats it when you feed some other food, it can get sick from eating 2 day old BH and that same BH will drive your water parameters out of wack.

[Phillydubs]

I agree with the rest... Save the money you were going to spend on the other tabk mates and get large discus. I tried to grow out smaller discus on a tight schedule and it was nothing but stress disappointment and angst. I tried again with young adults and couldn't be happier. Yes they cost more money but think of the money you will spend on meds and all else also think of the time you don't have and do the math. Invest in the young adults. Especially with your size tank you could easily get a nice group of some big guys in there. These fish are an investment. Plan to have them a long time with proper care. Many of our sponsors have bigger fish for reasonable price...

[Filip]

Also which automatic feeder do you use and are you feeding flake with it i could set timers on the filters so they shut off when the auto feeder triggers

I use eheim 3815 auto feeder,its stabile and reliable and cost 30-40 bucks. You can put flakes or granulated tetra-discus food in there and adjust it to a max. Of 4 feedings a day.
I use it only to fill the gaps between meals while am at work with filter running.
I do shut off filters on 15 -20 min. only while im feeding so that fish can eat more food and easily,and to keep food from ending up all around the tank and rot there.
After 15 min . I net up all leftover food from surface and botom and start the filters again.

[Eddie]

The 2-3 minutes thing is not really applicable. This is true for display tanks where you don't want food hanging around all day.

Just a side note, I used to feed young fish a million times a day but learned that a few big feedings will have the same effect on growth. At least in my experience.

[Filip]

Just a side note, I used to feed young fish a million times a day but learned that a few big feedings will have the same effect on growth. At least in my experience.

This is usefull experience to hear .
I stuffed them 2-3 times a day for 20 min. Period ,and i was allways wondering is this ok and if this kind of feeding can lead to bloating problems.
I never experience bloat though.
It seemed to me that Dicus unlike humans :) now how much is enough for them when left with plenty of food.

[Eddie]

Blue Diamonds do tend to get bloated/backed up so I'd be cautious with that type. Also, the type of foods have an effect on this issue.

Discus are used to eating until their bellies are crazy full. Even as fry, you can't monitor the amount of food they eat. Their bellies look like they are about explode and they keep eating.

It's really what works best for each individual. Clean water and a few fat bellies a day will grow some nice fish.

[afriend]

I have already watched the video and found it very informative. While I believe I understand the BIOload/mass issue the pathogens and bacteria it refers to that feed on it traditionally go up with your nitrates that's what shows how much bacteria is breaking things down in your tank. At least as I have always understood it. Maybe I can talk the Mrs into geting fish that are further grown because a daily 60-80% water change is probably going to be to much with my schedule. The most I can probably mange is maybe 3 times a week. Either that or will have to look at keeping something else.

The water change will control nitrates. But just controlling nitrates is not enough. Tank maintenance includes removing feces, uneaten food, AND removing biomass from everything in the tank by wiping surfaces clean.


I have a minimal gravel cover (you can still see glass in some spots so it should be easy to keep clean)

Food sticks to the gravel where it decomposes and pathogens multiply. Fish feed on the tank bottom and will ingest pathogens when they do. If you don't believe this try looking at some gravel with a microscope after it's been in the tank for awhile.

Perhaps you should consider some other type of fish? Not trying to be harsh, just practical. I spent allot of effort and money trying to keep discus before learning how important tank water and clean conditions are for them.

[John_Nicholson]

Been out of town and am in the process of catching up. I did not read everything in detail but here is my take. To grow out young discus to nice adults they need lots of good food and lots of clean water. You see the immediate issue. The more food you feed the harder it is to keep the water clean. If you do 2 good feedings of beef heart mix a day in a bare bottom tank, siphon the uneaten food out after both feedings and do at least one large water change a day you will have success. This has been proven over and over to be the best type of plan. Any deviation from this reduces your margin of error. It is just how it is.

Ohh and I did see one comment about how the water temp on your replacement water has to match within a degree or two. That is not exactly true.

-john

[Filip]

Ohh and I did see one comment about how the water temp on your replacement water has to match within a degree or two. That is not exactly true.
-john

Sorry i forgot to mention 1-2 degree Celsius ,i think thats arround 4 fahrenheits.
Is 4 F a good margin to stick with ,or we have to be more strict than this?

[S10blazin]

Thank you for all the great information you guys have done a great job helping my understanding to click a few things into place. I may keep my 125 as a community/display tank and set the empty 75 up as a bare bottom discus tank the 75 does have a 3d background siliconed into it. It sound like for ease of maintenance it too should be removed. It will be cheaper and easier to keep the 75 do 6 discus in it with the tank bare and less water overall to deal with but still maintain daily cleanings. One other question with the daily cleanings what do you guys recommend canisters or HOB filters? I've preferred canisters for years but this tank would be in another room where the noise of an HOB wouldn't be to bad. If you are using canisters how often are you cleaning them out aside from rinsing the prefilter that seems to be common.

Thanks
Dave

[Cevoe]

When I ran a 125 gallon tank there were anywhere from 10 to 15 or so adult discus.
The tank was bare bottom with (2) large HOB on each end, (1) smaller HOB in the middle & (4) large sponge filters.
I was mostly concerned with whatever biological filter bed any of these filters could provide so I rinsed them in tank water every now and then.
The water was usually changed daily anywhere from 35% to 75% and sometimes 50% every other day using a Python directly from the sink, regulating the temperature to match the tank with the faucet.
Prime or Safe was the only thing ever added.
All types of food were used; beef heart, flakes, pellets, etc.
It ran like this for a few years without a problem.
The discus thrived and pairs formed.
In my opinion and from my experience the keys were the size and quality of the discus.
The base group of 7 discus were purchased as adults from the Discus Pimp himself, Hans and they were about as bullet-proof as you could get.
I found the degree of difficulty in raising and maintaining discus increased as their size decreased.
The 75 gallon tank your thinking about putting together would be a good idea but try to get them as large as you can for your initial plunge into keeping them.
Good luck either way.

[pitdogg2]

The 2-3 minutes thing is not really applicable. This is true for display tanks where you don't want food hanging around all day.

Just a side note, I used to feed young fish a million times a day but learned that a few big feedings will have the same effect on growth. At least in my experience.

agree