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Paulsha
10-16-2015, 02:04 PM
910929109391094

Don't know if this has been covered or if anyone can help.

My seem to of slowed with there growing and I have an algae problem.

The tank has been setup for 8 months and everything had been going well (discus are doing very well now and have grow quite a lot), however now some plants have algae on them and it keeps building up on the gravel. All the water parameters have been stable with 2 water changes a week however for the last month the algae keeps happening and plant growth has slowed.

Does anyone have any ideas??

jmf3460
10-16-2015, 03:07 PM
it looks like BGA (blue green algae) google it. It is not actually an algae rather a cyanobacteria. there is an antibacterial medication you can add to the tank to rid of it called Ethromycin i think. IMO this is a mere bandaid, the cause of this BGA is likely not enough flow in those areas, increase flow to those areas or add an air stone. If i were you, i would siphon it all out, if it has a really funky musky odor then it is for sure BGA. once you get most of it out add an air stone and see what happens.

DJW
10-16-2015, 03:22 PM
Algae is really good at outcompeting the plants for available nutrients, which might explain the slowing growth of the plants. You could try some root tabs after getting rid of some of the BGR. The plants are also in competition with the filter bacteria for available nitrogen... so if you can give them a little something like root tabs it may help.

Paulsha
10-16-2015, 03:22 PM
I have an air stone running on a night and co2 during the day when the lights are on. Should I try turning off the co2 and running the air stone all the time.

The plant that has it on seems to be in the flow but I'll try moving it round.

Would purigen have anything to do with it as it seems to of started when I added that to the filter instead of active carbon after reading that was better for discus

Paulsha
10-16-2015, 03:25 PM
The tank has a dirt bottom under the gravel so I shouldn't need root tabs, would additional fertiliser be needed and if so what would be best (is seachem flourish excel good)

Chad Hughes
10-16-2015, 04:36 PM
The tank has a dirt bottom under the gravel so I shouldn't need root tabs, would additional fertiliser be needed and if so what would be best (is seachem flourish excel good)

The presence of algae is always related to a nutrient imbalance and may be too much or too little macro/micro nutrients, light (poor quality or too much/too little), too long photoperiod. Low CO2 levels.

jmf3460
10-16-2015, 04:42 PM
this is not actually an algae, it is a bacteria. cyanobacteria, caused by stale stagnant water.

Paulsha
10-16-2015, 04:46 PM
Tank is running the lights that came with the tank. Fluval Roma 240 litre

One Power-Glo Fluorescent Aquarium Tube 40W 106.68cm (42in) T8
One Aqua-Glo Fluorescent Aquarium Tube 40W 106.68cm (42in) T8

The CO2 runs at a light green/yellow on the indicator.

Would the seachem purigen be removing some nutrients or do I need to add some? Is there a way to test?

Paulsha
10-16-2015, 04:47 PM
Would I be better replacing the standard outlet that came with the tank to a spraybar

Filip
10-16-2015, 06:18 PM
Seachem purigen dont take plant nutrients out , its a plant safe alternative i have checked that on their technical support site , and its not the cause of BGA ,thats for sure .
BGA ussualy appears in new ,unmature tanks. Maybe you have done some big gravel and filter cleaning and your tank is now going through a Mini-cycle again.

Beside eritromicin and H2O2 treatments , you have i thin it was called Blue Exit product from Easy -life for this problem .

Natural ways to battle it are : more WCs and tank and algae cleaning rouine , High flow and current , more oxigenated water ,filter flos on pumps for finer mechanical filtration to trap the floating BGAs , more fastgrowing plants and most importantly patience, as it can be a long battle indeed :)

Paulsha
10-16-2015, 06:31 PM
So to confirm the best way to tackle this without chemicals as I would rather not is to increase flow some how, add more filter floss to catch free floating in the filter, increase oxygen with air stone (surface movement) and remove as much as I can when I can.

Should I leave co2 running during the day?
Should I get some extra fertiliser for plants? If so which?
Would it be best to cut plants back a little or leave as they currently are just removing the blue green affected parts?

I am sure more questions will come up

Filip
10-16-2015, 06:55 PM
So to confirm the best way to tackle this without chemicals as I would rather not is to increase flow some how, add more filter floss to catch free floating in the filter, increase oxygen with air stone (surface movement) and remove as much as I can when I can.

Should I leave co2 running during the day?
Should I get some extra fertiliser for plants? If so which?
Would it be best to cut plants back a little or leave as they currently are just removing the blue green affected parts?

I am sure more questions will come up


increase flow -pump with floss on the places where you got most BGA after you cleaned it your self , thats ussualy at the botom -gravel.

Leave the co2 on in -discus safe , green -drop checker zone (if you got drop checker).
i would recomend battle with leaner water column as you can get , so dont put extra fertilizers just PPS lowest dose .
Dont cut leaves and plants ,you can clean bga with hands its very soft algae.

Try it natural first for few weeks , if you get sick an tired you can always switch to chemistry. :)

Jack L
10-16-2015, 08:03 PM
http://www.amazon.com/Boyd-Enterprises-CC02-Chemi-Clean-2/dp/B00025YRJS/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1445039731&sr=8-3&keywords=red+slime+algae+remover

works and you get more for you money compared to ultralife

i had to deal with it in different tanks, D and other. i found plenty of conflicting theory on the web. the one tank the water flow was so high it was nuts, and the BGA still found a slow zone to take hold and spread.

in the end i used this and within a couple days it was all in my filter sock to dispose. the stuff stinks, and it spreads FAST, and it covers your plants and wrecks them. the cleanup crew ignores it, but after it was killed by remover, they did eat some of it.

the only thing i can point to is that it happened when i added some cabamba from a web seller, the other person i knew that got the same plant from them, also started having issues with BGA following that plant introduction.

i tried non chem, but found it useless, if i would have done chemi clean from beginning i would have saved some nice plants that took MONTHS to grow.

Paulsha
10-17-2015, 02:46 PM
Thanks I'll take a look at that, is it easy to use?

Has anyone else used this?

strawberryblonde
10-17-2015, 03:39 PM
Hi there,

I'm going to go ahead and repeat what I said back in August when you first had these discus and were having illness problems.

They are juveniles and you aren't doing what you need to do to raise them properly. You said back in August that you were going to remove the gravel, but you haven't done that. It's now been nearly 3 months and from what I can see in the pics you posted, your discus haven't grown much at all.

Now you have cyanobacteria in the tank, and even though some have told you that it's probably due to stagnant pockets in the tank and/or excess nutrients, you still don't want to fix it properly and do what's best for your discus.

1) You need to remove the gravel. You only have a few plants in the tank and they can be placed in pots or tied to driftwood.

2) With so few plants, you really don't need the CO2.

3) You need to do a lot more water changes. We talked in the other thread about reducing the water temp to 28C so that you can increase the amount of your water changes. And they should be done daily till your discus are 5".

These are just the very basic things that you need to start doing. Or you can ignore advice again and then come back in another couple of months with more problems. I'm only trying to help you grow out your discus and keep them healthy.

Your tank is trying to tell you that you need to make changes.

Paulsha
10-17-2015, 05:01 PM
After speaking with a few other people and not not liking the bare bottom tank look I have changed a few things regards the filter and everything has been running well. I am not after monster size discus just a nice looking tank that is nice and relaxing to look at. The discus have grown a fair bit apart from the small pigeon which is maybe an 3/4 inch bigger the others are anything between 1 - 2 inch bigger now, the biggest blue turq is around an inch bigger then the small turq who was the same size before he had the problem and has since been chased a little by the bigger one.

Until this Cyanobacteria problem everything has been running well with the fish growing and being fed beef heart in a morning and an evening with timed flake food while I am at work 3 times a day.

The tank is well planted on both side with only a little in the middle to allow for some swimming space.

I will be making and installing a spray this week and am looking to improve my intake as well.

I feel that I am happy with the results so far and like the look and feel of the tank apart from the odd fight they have to break the peace, everything is running well with zero to almost no levels of ammonia, nitrate and nitrite when checking at least every other day.

I have had no fish issues at all and hope that continues with them not getting too big for this tank as I don't have the space for anything bigger.

I thank every one for there help on here and hope it continues.

Paulsha
10-17-2015, 05:06 PM
91156

Not the most recent pic but the planting is only a little less then this

Jack L
10-17-2015, 11:37 PM
Thanks I'll take a look at that, is it easy to use?

Has anyone else used this?

its easy to use, but i would follow the others advise on husbandry too.

dprais1
10-18-2015, 03:40 AM
After speaking with a few other people and not not liking the bare bottom tank look I have changed a few things regards the filter and everything has been running well. I am not after monster size discus just a nice looking tank that is nice and relaxing to look at. The discus have grown a fair bit apart from the small pigeon which is maybe an 3/4 inch bigger the others are anything between 1 - 2 inch bigger now, the biggest blue turq is around an inch bigger then the small turq who was the same size before he had the problem and has since been chased a little by the bigger one.

Until this Cyanobacteria problem everything has been running well with the fish growing and being fed beef heart in a morning and an evening with timed flake food while I am at work 3 times a day.

The tank is well planted on both side with only a little in the middle to allow for some swimming space.

I will be making and installing a spray this week and am looking to improve my intake as well.

I feel that I am happy with the results so far and like the look and feel of the tank apart from the odd fight they have to break the peace, everything is running well with zero to almost no levels of ammonia, nitrate and nitrite when checking at least every other day.

I have had no fish issues at all and hope that continues with them not getting too big for this tank as I don't have the space for anything bigger.

I thank every one for there help on here and hope it continues.



Okay here goes.

IMO.

if you are not after big, fully grown discus, that is fine, they are your fish after all. and they are just fish.

I've kept some planted tanks and some dirted planted tanks, and bare bottom tanks. I will never keep a tank with gravel again. It is a filth collector. Bare bottom is best as far as cleanliness BUT sand is a good compromise. plants grow great in sand and you can do sand over dirt or mts just fine.

if you aren't aiming for big discus then I wouldn't bother with beefheart or any prepared food like that, just flakes or pellets- something clean. frozen brine shrimp, fdbw or bloodworms would probably work well too.

algae and cyanobacteria will grow with poor water movement and dirty water. there is not a filter I know of that will give you the water movement that a couple of powerheads will. so keep your filters but add some powerheads to move the water. this will also help distribute co2 and other nutrients in your tank so your plants will grow better.

keeping healthy plants can be a challenge to. you have T8 lights, not very strong. you're running co2


so....
1) change gravel to sand. I doubt you will do this it will mean tearing down your tank and starting over. but it is still good advice:)
2) stop feeding messy foods like beefheart. just flakes and/or pellets. maybe a bit of frozen. especially if you keep the gravel.
3) get good water movement. this will help solve many problems. i would put a powerhead on each side of the tank.

4)change more water, this won't get rid of the cyano you have but will stop it from coming back. I've never ever seen this in one of my tanks. waterchanges are not just great for fish plants love waterchanges too, many people will tell you that. even small changes where you just siphon out all the poop and uneaten food will help. this can be done several times a day.

and IMO and IME a weekly water change, a BIG one of at least 75% (but 100% would be better), even if the water is a 10-15 degrees cooler won't harm your fish if they are healthy.

Paulsha
10-18-2015, 08:16 AM
Would this sand be ok

91180

Also I now have my HMA filter linked to hot and cold water with a TMV so water when doing a water change is 30 going in, would I be ok when draining the tank using water from this to fill back up or should I keep some water I remove.

How do I clean sand with gravel cleaner just suck it up when cleaning it.

When is best way to do filter intake I currently have a JBL topclean setup and am thinking of changing this when I setup the spray bar. Filter is a fluval 306

bluelagoon
10-18-2015, 08:30 AM
Blacken your tank with a blanket and leave it in complete darkness for three whole days and viola the green blue algae (bacteria) will be gone.Lights on for no more than 8 hours per day after that.If your substrat is new with silica gravel it may also be a reason for this issue;it will subside with time.

FishFanMan
10-18-2015, 08:51 AM
I've used that chemiclean on that bacteria but it didn't work for me, meaning it came back. What I did was physically remove the blue/green layer from everything then treated the tank. But it came back. What did get rid of was erythromycin by API. Sooner you get rid of it the better, I believe it can produce toxins that may adversely discus health. It's purely my speculation/theory but presence of this toxin may contribute to strange discus behavior like jumping out or twirling. I've seen these behaviors when I had this bacterial but have not once I got rid of it with erythromycin. I redosed after a week to make sure it's all gone.

Paulsha
10-18-2015, 08:57 AM
Does the black out work and would I just cover the tank turn lights and co2 off and not touch the tank (no feeding etc) or would I be best doing water changes and feeding during this time.

Would best way be to remove gravel for sand (is sand in earlier comment the right sand to use) cut and replant the tank at the same time and change to a spray bar instead of standard nozzle.

Also as I am going to do the spray bar myself would I be best setting this up to go the full length of the back and side away from intake to direct water towards filter intake?

Filip
10-18-2015, 04:55 PM
If your substrat is new with silica gravel it may also be a reason for this issue;it will subside with time.

Blue lagoon .
Where does this statement come from? Is silica has something in it that trrigers BGA? I switch to silica 5 days ago and i can see small traces fo BGA in my tank.


Paulsha , as Toni advised above you really dont need Co2 for this kind of easy maintanig plants you got in your aquarium, but they sure grow more rapidly with co2 .
As for the sand , look for Quartz- Silica sand from a pool supplier.They use them as filter sands for filtering pools. It should be more than 95% SiO2- silica.
Looks great and its much cleaner for discus too .

If you do blackout Change 80% water prior blackout , turn off co2 and dont feed for 3 days , wrap the tank with blankets for complete darknes . Use as much Aeration and flow as you can during 3 days., and after blackout do another 80% WC.
Ang go for sand you wont regret it

Paulsha
10-18-2015, 05:07 PM
Thanks I will see where I can source it here.

I never had much look with plants till now with the co2 setup and now have to cut them back every other week which is good as my small tank gets new plants every free weeks, they seem to die in the small tank.

What's the best way to clean sand?

pastry
10-18-2015, 06:08 PM
Can't tell size of quartz of that sand in pic but definitely better than gravel. Poop/crud sits on top of sand so you don't really have to dig in with symphony; however, some poop and crud will always find a way to get under top layer... It is what it is

Filip
10-18-2015, 06:21 PM
What's the best way to clean sand?

I do it with simple hose siphoning .
You roll around with hose half inch away from sand and you can roll it with your fingers too while holding the hose half inc away .
If you go closer to sand it can suck up some sand , but thats no big deal, if you suck up a good deal, youl just buy some more in couple of months
It has to be 03-08 mm or Grade #20 , not too coarse and not too small.

Paulsha
10-18-2015, 06:28 PM
It says this.

91213

How much would I need for a 4ft tank and how deep should it be to cover dirt base

Filip
10-18-2015, 07:20 PM
Mine is also 4 feet to 17 inch wide and it took me 40 lbs to cover an one inch overall botom .
And yes , thats the one youll need .

Jack L
10-18-2015, 11:21 PM
Blacken your tank with a blanket and leave it in complete darkness for three whole days and viola the green blue algae (bacteria) will be gone.Lights on for no more than 8 hours per day after that.If your substrat is new with silica gravel it may also be a reason for this issue;it will subside with time.

interesting comment, and not one i remember reading. but I have seen it growing below the sand layer then it worked its way to the top and went full on.

Jack L
10-18-2015, 11:27 PM
I've used that chemiclean on that bacteria but it didn't work for me, meaning it came back. What I did was physically remove the blue/green layer from everything then treated the tank. But it came back. What did get rid of was erythromycin by API. Sooner you get rid of it the better, I believe it can produce toxins that may adversely discus health. It's purely my speculation/theory but presence of this toxin may contribute to strange discus behavior like jumping out or twirling. I've seen these behaviors when I had this bacterial but have not once I got rid of it with erythromycin. I redosed after a week to make sure it's all gone.

after how long did it come back?

Filip
10-19-2015, 03:41 AM
Chemistry and pills only helps you to quick-fix the simptoms,to solve the problem longterm you have to deal with the cause,not symptoms.
And thats imbalanced tank with excess nutrients of some kind.
You must maintain good hygiene practice if you dont want BGA back.

FishFanMan
10-19-2015, 08:46 AM
Came back in a week.

bluelagoon
10-20-2015, 01:11 AM
interesting comment, and not one i remember reading. but I have seen it growing below the sand layer then it worked its way to the top and went full on.

Google cyanobacteria/diatoms/silica.It is a nutrient for the bacteria.It will clear up when all the dust particles get filtered out of the tank.

Filip
10-20-2015, 04:36 AM
Google cyanobacteria/diatoms/silica.It is a nutrient for the bacteria.It will clear up when all the dust particles get filtered out of the tank.

I switched to silica sand 10 days ago and almost instantly got cyano but in small amounts. I never knew there was any correlation. I thought it was because of mini cycle issue.
Plus i still got dusty surface eventhough i rinse the sand well.

Paulsha
10-20-2015, 11:36 AM
Well I had a good clean and maybe a 200% water change with moving/cutting/replanting and continuous gravel clean as going along. Looked like I had removed all the BGA and yesterday there seemed to be none but today I have a little back. Going to order the sand and change to that hopefully in a week or so, as I really like the look and wish I had done sand to begin with however never looked in to that as gravel came with the tank.

I have also ordered a 600 l/h corner filter to go with the current fluval to get some more movement.

The discus are still a little unsure of themselves now as it looks like a new tank so must feel like one to them, I suppose in a few days they will be back to normal and swimming round, they are still asking to be fed when I go near just rest of time they are staying to one side of the tank.

Should I still do the spraybar or it that not needed? And with the sand would it be good to direct the flow along the bottom in some way from the side away from the intake to the intake? Has anyone got a tank setup in the way and does in work to help cut down the waste that staying in the tank

Paulsha
10-20-2015, 01:34 PM
Sorry about the quality of my drawing on my phone but this is what I currently have setup filter wise.

91234

I have my intake split between surface (JBL topclean - red area in corner) and intake supplied with tank (blue dot positioned a few inch above gravel and set to middle of tank as picture), outlet is fluval standard (orange) with flow in green as it directs water 2 ways.

What I am thinking is

91235

Keep the surface part as that seems to work well, then add a modified spray bar as intake instead of normal strainer to collect along full side (blue bar), not sure of how far from sand this would need to be. Then for the outlet of the fluval canister a spray bar on side away from intake directed back to intake placed near bottom to help with movement lower in tank (orange bar). The green is new corner filter with attached spraybar which would go at the surface directed to intake side.

Hopefully this looks like it will work, and someone has an idea if this will work as would like to set it all up when changing gravel over to sand.

Paulsha
10-20-2015, 04:37 PM
Just one more question for now.

I have my lights set to come on in a morning for feeding for 40 minutes then back on from 2 till 8.45 so I see them when I get home, after this they are on a low blue led lighting till 11.

Does this seem OK for a lighting solution?

Jack L
10-20-2015, 09:30 PM
Google cyanobacteria/diatoms/silica.It is a nutrient for the bacteria.It will clear up when all the dust particles get filtered out of the tank.

thanks

Jack L
10-20-2015, 09:33 PM
Sorry about the quality of my drawing on my phone but this is what I currently have setup filter wise.

91234

I have my intake split between surface (JBL topclean - red area in corner) and intake supplied with tank (blue dot positioned a few inch above gravel and set to middle of tank as picture), outlet is fluval standard (orange) with flow in green as it directs water 2 ways.

What I am thinking is

91235

Keep the surface part as that seems to work well, then add a modified spray bar as intake instead of normal strainer to collect along full side (blue bar), not sure of how far from sand this would need to be. Then for the outlet of the fluval canister a spray bar on side away from intake directed back to intake placed near bottom to help with movement lower in tank (orange bar). The green is new corner filter with attached spraybar which would go at the surface directed to intake side.

Hopefully this looks like it will work, and someone has an idea if this will work as would like to set it all up when changing gravel over to sand.

just experiment....and see what works for you....

Jack L
10-20-2015, 09:38 PM
Came back in a week.

i saw it creep back up a couple times, but then it seemed to stop with repeated treatment, but it stayed away for a month to 6 weeks.

FishFanMan
10-20-2015, 11:02 PM
It's a bacterial infection so IMHO antibiotic is best to quickly get rid of it and prevent any harm from the toxins that it produces.

Jack L
10-20-2015, 11:29 PM
yeah.....tend to agree w/ you

also i don't know the secret ingredient in the chemiclean

Filip
10-21-2015, 04:00 AM
I have my canister outflow on the right back side 1 inch near surface pointet to left and slightly upwards for surface agitation.
Under that on the bottomot i got one more powerhead filter 1000l/h pointed in same direction.
All the flow is in the back side so that front ,where ussualy discus hang most of time,can be more calm

bluelagoon
10-21-2015, 11:10 AM
It's a bacterial infection so IMHO antibiotic is best to quickly get rid of it and prevent any harm from the toxins that it produces.

All you need to do IMO is starve the bacteria for 3 full days.It'll also get rid of any tough to remove beard algae and other algae.Simply black out your tank and wait it out.You will need to remove one of the reasons why it is growing in the first place.First try only 8 hours of photosynthesis.What you will be doing is killing off the algae that is iside the bacteria that it feeds off off.Erythromycin will also get rid of it,but I'd try a more natural approach.The kind that grows in a fish tank should not be all that toxic.Siamese algae eaters love the stuff.

Jack L
10-21-2015, 02:21 PM
Thanks, if it crops up again I will look into blackout method, thanks

Paulsha
10-22-2015, 04:53 PM
Would my light being 7 months old make a difference?

Filip
10-22-2015, 05:33 PM
Would my light being 7 months old make a difference?

They are rather 7 months new. :).
Even the reefers don't change lights that often. Don't worry about the lights.

Paulsha
10-22-2015, 05:42 PM
They are rather 7 months new. :).
Even the reefers don't change lights that often. Don't worry about the lights.

How often should they be changed?

Filip
10-22-2015, 07:34 PM
How often should they be changed?

It's really not that big of a deal IMO.
In theory T5,T8,and other neon lights should be changed once a year,in planted tanks with most picky plants.

Im not sure about LEDs but they can run quite longer than a year without loosing lumens and quality I think.

Paulsha
10-23-2015, 02:05 PM
Sands on order and extra day off from work booked to give me time just need some extra buckets for the fish now.

Extra filter in tank and it's extra 600lph on top of current filter is giving loads of extra flow away from the other filters outlet so much so I've had to have a play round with it as one of the discus nearly got sent to the other side of the tank when it went to investigate.

They have started fighting a lot today so they must be use to the tank change round I did to clean all the gravel before, the only thing is I have never seen them this aggressive with each other. Have to see if they calm down as at the minute the only time they are is when they are eating.

The sand says it's ready to put straight in with out washing and is 0.4~0.8 size, should I wash it anyway and if so is it just a rinse or should I do some thing else?

As it's going to be a couple of weeks till I can add the sand. Should I keep up with water changes and see if the extra flow extra gets the BGA to go or should I treat? Not sure if to keep up to everything and see if better when I add the sand and change position of a few things with the filter or just treat it now?

pastry
10-23-2015, 05:35 PM
Wash it anyways. Then empty out 90-95 percent of water ( unplug heaters) then put sand in. Wait 10-15 minutes without disturbance, fill back up without too strong of water flow... Aim water at side of tank or at structure.

Filip
10-24-2015, 11:15 AM
1. Aggression may be due to changed environment and fighting for new positions.I
It should calm down after they reestablish their new positions in tank.
I hope you did put discus out when you were taking out the substrate.

2. Wash the sand many times as it is really dusty,and it will give you surface dust for 2-3weeks after you put it.

3.Stick with regular Larger Wc. And lower your light period. Try it natural first.

Paulsha
10-24-2015, 11:20 AM
Not changed it over to sand yet it's not arrived, just had a good clean of the gravel, cut and moved plants round which seems to have sparked them into growing again.

Will be removing all the fish in couple of weeks when I have everything to hand to sort it and when I have the day booked off to sort it all.

Been doing 50% change at least every other day with cleaning gravel surface daily

Paulsha
10-25-2015, 06:53 PM
Has anyone made their own spray bar?

To get flow around plants at the base I am going to install a spray bar near the tank bottom when I do the change. Would this work best an inch from the sand and straight across or a little higher and pointed down? Should I do the length of the tank and side away from intake to direct waste towards front and across to filter intake? How many holes should I put in? Is there a calculation to work it out?

Filip
10-25-2015, 07:18 PM
I would put it on the whole length of the blackwall pointed to front.
An inch over the sand pointed straight not downwards.
That way your gunk will build up into the front of tank where should be empty and easy to clean.

Just use plastic hose, drill holes with heated nail and close the end of the hose with some pebble for instance.
Experiment with the jets and flow outside in yard with powerhead in a bucket.

Paulsha
10-25-2015, 07:26 PM
I'm going to be spending a day breaking the tank down removing everything to change it all round and change gravel to sand, so I'll be able to play round with the flow in the tank before I put everything back in place.

Would you not do the side as well? Is they a calculation to work out out many holes of what size for the filter output?

I'll take some pictures when I do it, if all the parts turn up on time which I hope they do

DJW
10-25-2015, 08:07 PM
Fluval makes a spraybar, its about 2 feet long in 1-foot sections. You can use one or both. The DIY version I have is 1/2" PVC water pipe with an end cap, drilled about every 1.5" with a 3/32" bit on the drill press. This isn't something you want to calculate, its best to drill some holes, then add more until its right. This is for the industrial look in your tank, not very pretty.:undecided:

Paulsha
10-25-2015, 08:17 PM
I'm just thinking for the price I can do the same at the right length for less. Most of it will be hidden behind the plants as well

Filip
10-26-2015, 05:17 AM
All the holes you drill in diameter have to be bigger than your outflow diameter. If it's less you wont use the whole GPH capacity of the pump.
For fine tuning you really would have to experiment a bit.

And you don't need the sides, all through the length is sufficient enough.

Discus3anatic
10-28-2015, 07:19 PM
Only time ive seen BGA in my 8 tanks, is if water flow is too low, and your nitrates are too high

Paulsha
10-28-2015, 07:25 PM
Seems to be reducing now I've got more flow, nitrates never seem to go up much and have dropped to nearly zero now somehow after change round and plants now growing better

Paulsha
11-08-2015, 07:06 AM
91722

Not the best picture but here's the new retaining wall to go at the front of the tank. Don't know if to add a thin layer of sand on it or not when I put it in.

How long does it need for the silicon to fully go off before I install?

Filip
11-08-2015, 07:30 AM
I don't get it. Is this a DIY Background or a bottom?
Why would you put this in the tank?

Paulsha
11-08-2015, 07:44 AM
I don't get it. Is this a DIY Background or a bottom?
Why would you put this in the tank?

It is for the bottom to I only have soil and sand around the back of the tank to plant in, leaving the front open for easy cleaning. Kind of half dirt/sand planted and half bare bottom.

TexMoHoosier
11-08-2015, 02:15 PM
I saw this thread a little late but here are some is some more advice based on my experience with planted aquariums....

As many have said, BGA and "true" algae species result from nutrient imbalances. More specifically, there is an imbalance of macro nutrients, possibly exacerbated by feeding BH. if you're fertilizing the water column, a trick to starve algae/BGA is to cut back on your macros (same dosing frequency, but maybe 1/2 or 1/3 the amount), but keep your TE/micro dosing the same. Without getting too technical, your micros/TEs are what enable your plants to take up the macros, and the only reason to have high macros is for vigorous plant growth. They'll do just fine as long as they get their micros and only a small amount of macros. This also helps keep Nitrates at a safer level for your discus.

Also, regarding the blackout method. I would highly discourage this as a way to kill off BGA/algae in a discus aquarium (and it sounds like you're not going this route....that's good). Blackout works, but it's stressful on your fish and fouls the water quite a bit. During this process, the algae dies off and decays off as well as some plant leaves. This decay leaves all sorts of toxins in the water that will harm sesitive fish such as discus, tetras, etc.

Filip
11-08-2015, 03:54 PM
I saw this thread a little late but here are some is some more advice based on my experience with planted aquariums....

As many have said, BGA and "true" algae species result from nutrient imbalances. More specifically, there is an imbalance of macro nutrients, possibly exacerbated by feeding BH. if you're fertilizing the water column, a trick to starve algae/BGA is to cut back on your macros (same dosing frequency, but maybe 1/2 or 1/3 the amount), but keep your TE/micro dosing the same. Without getting too technical, your micros/TEs are what enable your plants to take up the macros, and the only reason to have high macros is for vigorous plant growth. They'll do just fine as long as they get their micros and only a small amount of macros. This also helps keep Nitrates at a safer level for your discus.

Also, regarding the blackout method. I would highly discourage this as a way to kill off BGA/algae in a discus aquarium (and it sounds like you're not going this route....that's good). Blackout works, but it's stressful on your fish and fouls the water quite a bit. During this process, the algae dies off and decays off as well as some plant leaves. This decay leaves all sorts of toxins in the water that will harm sesitive fish such as discus, tetras, etc.

Good point Tex. Thanks for sharing your info on micros and BGA.

Filip
11-08-2015, 03:57 PM
91722

Not the best picture but here's the new retaining wall to go at the front of the tank. Don't know if to add a thin layer of sand on it or not when I put it in.

How long does it need for the silicon to fully go off before I install?

This big pebbles should go in front right?
They will trap a lot of food an detritus,I wouldn't. Do it.
Just leave the front open with sand only,so you can clean it.

rickztahone
11-10-2015, 01:09 PM
This big pebbles should go in front right?
They will trap a lot of food an detritus,I wouldn't. Do it.
Just leave the front open with sand only,so you can clean it.

I did the same thing and had no problems with growing out my discus:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/Planted%20tanks/CL.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/rickztahone/media/Planted%20tanks/CL.jpg.html)

Paulsha
11-10-2015, 03:36 PM
I did the same thing and had no problems with growing out my discus:
http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b284/rickztahone/Planted%20tanks/CL.jpg (http://s21.photobucket.com/user/rickztahone/media/Planted%20tanks/CL.jpg.html)

I think the look. What's at the front is it sand or just painted white?

rickztahone
11-10-2015, 03:38 PM
I think the look. What's at the front is it sand or just painted white?

Textured paint on the bottom outside of the tank. That is what I used on my current 75g tank as well. The one pictured is actually a 125g tank.

Paulsha
11-10-2015, 03:44 PM
Textured paint on the bottom outside of the tank. That is what I used on my current 75g tank as well. The one pictured is actually a 125g tank.

How have you done the walls? I've used silicon to make mine with a piece of white acrylic as the base so it can be removed down the line if needed

rickztahone
11-10-2015, 03:54 PM
How have you done the walls? I've used silicon to make mine with a piece of white acrylic as the base so it can be removed down the line if needed

silicone, all done one by painstaking one, lol.

Paulsha
11-10-2015, 04:26 PM
silicone, all done one by painstaking one, lol.

Took me a few nights to get mine done with bending the back acrylic to the right curve and then sticking and decided where to put each stone.

What do you think to this I've built as my new filter intake with built in surface skimmer?

91736

Filip
11-10-2015, 04:34 PM
Oh,I get it now. This was a vertical,wall like structure.
At first glance I saw sprinkled bunch of pebbles laying at the bottom.
This Is good idea and I like it.
It's like a big natural pot for plants at the back of tank Leaveing the front open for feeding and cleaning.
Nice work Paulsha.And yours too Rick :)

rickztahone
11-10-2015, 05:24 PM
Oh,I get it now. This was a vertical,wall like structure.
At first glance I saw sprinkled bunch of pebbles laying at the bottom.
This Is good idea and I like it.
It's like a big natural pot for plants at the back of tank Leaveing the front open for feeding and cleaning.
Nice work Paulsha.And yours too Rick :)

Yup, that is literally what it is, a giant flower pot, lol. I actually had Eco Complete in there and I wish it would have been something else. That substrate is super hard and gravel like. I'm sure there are better ones out there now.

Paulsha
11-10-2015, 05:36 PM
Oh,I get it now. This was a vertical,wall like structure.
At first glance I saw sprinkled bunch of pebbles laying at the bottom.
This Is good idea and I like it.
It's like a big natural pot for plants at the back of tank Leaveing the front open for feeding and cleaning.
Nice work Paulsha.And yours too Rick :)

Thank you, should make cleaning a little easier.

Just put new filter intake in as pictured and seems to be working well, hopefully going to redo full tank this weekend and add spray bar as well. Just have to catch and take out all the fish for the day to take out gravel, add wall and sand instead and then replant

Filip
11-10-2015, 05:37 PM
Yup, that is literally what it is, a giant flower pot, lol. I actually had Eco Complete in there and I wish it would have been something else. That substrate is super hard and gravel like. I'm sure there are better ones out there now.

I like the neat look of yard looking tanks.
And I had the Eco Complete black gravel in the past, and it's just like an any ordinary gravel maybe just dipped in ferts and Bb start culture.
I think it's also the cheapest of all plant proclaimed substrates.

Paulsha
11-10-2015, 05:41 PM
This big pebbles should go in front right?
They will trap a lot of food an detritus,I wouldn't. Do it.
Just leave the front open with sand only,so you can clean it.

Just spotted this. It's back filled as much as possible and has acrylic 50mm high behind it to hold substrate back behind

Paulsha
11-10-2015, 05:42 PM
I will try taking a few photos as everything goes in this weekend

Paulsha
11-15-2015, 03:54 PM
Well it's all in and seems to be working ok so far. Bits seem to be moving to the front corner near intake for the filter and flow seems good overall. Front is now clear from any substrate so should be easier to keep clear. Also added an extra outlet in the plumbing with a tap and hose pipe connector for easy water changes.

Here's a pic, not had full lights on just letting them settle in to the new tank as it is now.

91888

Jack L
11-15-2015, 07:11 PM
came out nice

Paulsha
11-16-2015, 05:17 AM
Here's one with the lights on.

91909

I'm happy with it just needs a few small tweaks as rubbish is settling under the filter intake, so it is in the right place just need to turn it round so it picks up from that point.

Filip
11-16-2015, 12:11 PM
Looks great Paulsha and I think this would be lot easier to clean since all the food and poop would just stay in the BB area.

Paulsha
11-16-2015, 01:00 PM
Looks great Paulsha and I think this would be lot easier to clean since all the food and poop would just stay in the BB area.

Changed intake this morning to pick up from the bottom corner and most of the rubbish seems now to be going straight to the filter. Just going to have to watch out for sand getting there as the corys seem to be enjoying sticking their heads right in and sending it other the wall at times

Filip
11-16-2015, 05:10 PM
Changed intake this morning to pick up from the bottom corner and most of the rubbish seems now to be going straight to the filter. Just going to have to watch out for sand getting there as the corys seem to be enjoying sticking their heads right in and sending it other the wall at times
What kind of filter do you have?
If it sucks up all the food and poop you better clean it on a daily level.
My point is - If it's a canister don't do this at all.

Paulsha
11-16-2015, 06:33 PM
What kind of filter do you have?
If it sucks up all the food and poop you better clean it on a daily level.
My point is - If it's a canister don't do this at all.

Currently running a fluval 306 canister which is running the spray bar at bottom of tank now with the modified intake taking in surface and corner where water is directed to. Then a corner filter extra to increase flow in tank, currently is 600l/ph but looking to upgrade this one to 1000lph, maybe a fluval U4.

I have put intake sponges on the intake of the 306.

91914

It is taking water in at both points with the sponge on, bottom and along the pipe. It still isn't taking everything in but it is taking a lot on it.

I have setup a hose pipe connector on the inlet of the filter and have stop taps on both inlet and outlet pipes to the tank so can back flush the filter when doing water changes which I didn't try today. This should help to clean out the filter a little. I'll have to use this and see how it goes.

Paulsha
11-17-2015, 06:11 PM
Should my kh and gh have dropped with using the sand instead of gravel.

Kh has dropped from 4 to 2
Gh from between 8 to 4

Is this going to cause a problem did a water change yesterday but not today as not had time after work, will be doing another 50% tomorrow with some cleaning, don't want to do too much cleaning as not much waste showing in the tank and discus seem a little jumpy since the change.

Paulsha
11-17-2015, 06:18 PM
Just checked the water from the tap and it is the same as my tank so must be that that's changed.

Is this lower kh and gh going to be a problem, ph is sitting around 7.2 with ammonia etc showing almost zero across the board

Jack L
11-17-2015, 10:12 PM
Just checked the water from the tap and it is the same as my tank so must be that that's changed.

Is this lower kh and gh going to be a problem, ph is sitting around 7.2 with ammonia etc showing almost zero across the board

i have run mine around there w/o issue as well as MUCH higher. just gradual changes.

Jack L
11-17-2015, 10:12 PM
what are those things in the top left of tank? the circles?

Filip
11-18-2015, 02:43 AM
what are those things in the top left of tank? the circles?

I was wondering the same thing, but didn't ask it. :)

Paulsha
11-18-2015, 03:37 AM
They are seachem ph and ammonia monitors, then under that digital thermometer and sticker where co2 checker goes but trying without the co2 at the minute

Paulsha
01-09-2016, 07:30 PM
Hi all, the algae problem seems to be back again on one plant.

The cleaning has been easier, with most of the waste ending in the bare bottom part at the front with the spraybar pushing it there with some of the sand, and all plants seem to be moving in the flow so doesn't seem like a flow problem.

My KH seems to be at zero now I even ordered a new test kit and got the same reading. PH is now at 6.6 and stable at this. It seems like the water from my tap has changed to this, local discus supplier said to add crushed oyster shell in to the filter to help buffer this?? Is this correct?

Would this change in water perimeters have an effect on the BGA problem changing back?

Should I just remove the effected plant and stick with the others that seem to be growing quick and not being effected.

Kyla
01-10-2016, 08:41 PM
Hi all, the algae problem seems to be back again on one plant.

The cleaning has been easier, with most of the waste ending in the bare bottom part at the front with the spraybar pushing it there with some of the sand, and all plants seem to be moving in the flow so doesn't seem like a flow problem.

My KH seems to be at zero now I even ordered a new test kit and got the same reading. PH is now at 6.6 and stable at this. It seems like the water from my tap has changed to this, local discus supplier said to add crushed oyster shell in to the filter to help buffer this?? Is this correct?

Would this change in water perimeters have an effect on the BGA problem changing back?

Should I just remove the effected plant and stick with the others that seem to be growing quick and not being effected.

can u manually remove the algae?

our tap water also has very low kh. i add very small baggies of aragonite to my tanks to maintain a kh of about 3. if my tank kh falls to 0 the pH plummets so low i cant measure it with the liquid kit. the aragonite holds the ph steady, lasts and lasts, and i dont have to add it with every water change.

Jack L
01-10-2016, 10:30 PM
if i have bga i go straight to chemiclean now. works fast, works long. works for others i have recommended it to as well. from boyd enterprises.

i think i saw it cheapers on kens fish site, and i think he is sponser

MattArmstrong
01-11-2016, 01:45 AM
My KH seems to be at zero now I even ordered a new test kit and got the same reading. PH is now at 6.6 and stable at this.

With zero KH your are in a delicate situation. There isn't much to prevent a pH crash in your tank. E.g. the acid produced by the bio filter in your tank or decomposition of dead plant leaves could drop it quite quickly. If it is stable at 6.6 there is probably a bit of KH keeping it that way but just not registering on the test kit, but not much.

Also, plants consume KH as a source of Carbon. I noticed that you stopped CO2, which may have increased the rate at which your plants consumed the KH.

If your KH is this low, how is your GH? It may be that your water is so soft that one or more elements/minerals becomes depleted fairly quickly (e.g. KH). When this happens, the plants become nutrient limited and growth slows, and algae often takes up the slack. I have a heavily planted "low/medium light" planted tank and I found that I could get away without dosing fertilizers only after I started doing 50% weekly water changes. I have very soft water, and without those water changes the plants consume everything relatively quickly and stop growing well. I also found that this tank took 6+ months to really stabilize. E.g. it went through some mild pH crashes (harming fish, some not surviving) before I realized the low KH was actually something I needed to deal with.



It seems like the water from my tap has changed to this, local discus supplier said to add crushed oyster shell in to the filter to help buffer this?? Is this correct?

I would be surprised if your municipal water supply has absolutely zero KH. I'm in Seattle WA and they add enough lime to the water to bring the KH up to 2. If they didn't do that, there would be issues with low pH in the pipes, causing pipe corrosion. I suppose your water could be treated to a KH of 0.5 or 1, but I'd be surprised (and I'd be interested to hear about it!).



our tap water also has very low kh. i add very small baggies of aragonite to my tanks to maintain a kh of about 3. if my tank kh falls to 0 the pH plummets so low i cant measure it with the liquid kit. the aragonite holds the ph steady, lasts and lasts, and i don't have to add it with every water change.

Yes, in my area the KH is consistently 2 out the tap and many hobbyists use some crushed oral or aragonite in tanks, even for "soft water" species. In a tank where you're doing frequent large water changes this probably isn't necessary because the KH is replenished that way. It becomes more and more necessary as water change frequency and amount decreases.

Kyla
01-11-2016, 03:29 AM
Yes, in my area the KH is consistently 2 out the tap and many hobbyists use some crushed oral or aragonite in tanks, even for "soft water" species. In a tank where you're doing frequent large water changes this probably isn't necessary because the KH is replenished that way. It becomes more and more necessary as water change frequency and amount decreases.

the discus tanks would prob be OK without the aragonite because the wc r so frequent, but i put it in anyway just to be on the safe side.

i do less frequent wc on some of my other misc mixed tanks at home and in the community tho, so they really benefit from the aragonite.

Paulsha
01-11-2016, 06:43 AM
Thank you for your replies.

I live in the uk and until recently the tap water was kh4 and gh8 now it reads a blue/yellow (not fully one or the other) on the first drop for kh and 4 for gh.

I didn't check my tap at first as was thinking it was something with the tank after changing to 1/2ish sand with retaining wall and bare bottom at the front.

I have been doing twice weekly 50% water changes and the ph stays at 6.2 to 6.6 now between changes.

Fish seem fine but concerned that I will end up with an issue.

Should I turn co2 back on and add crushed oyster shell as suggested by lfs?

One of my plants has started to have yellow old leaves and faded new growth with green spot algae on.

What should I add for plants and test for? Could I be missing something the plants need?

MattArmstrong
01-12-2016, 12:55 PM
Thank you for your replies.

I live in the uk and until recently the tap water was kh4 and gh8 now it reads a blue/yellow (not fully one or the other) on the first drop for kh and 4 for gh.


This might be a normal seasonal variation in your water source. Tip: my KH test tells me to look at the test tube from the top down for ambiguous readings. By looking through much more water, it usually goes definitively to one color or the other. But that it is near 1 KH is basically all you need to know.


I have been doing twice weekly 50% water changes and the ph stays at 6.2 to 6.6 now between changes.

Fish seem fine but concerned that I will end up with an issue.

Should I turn co2 back on and add crushed oyster shell as suggested by lfs?

One of my plants has started to have yellow old leaves and faded new growth with green spot algae on.

What should I add for plants and test for? Could I be missing something the plants need?

If you're curious, I'd test KH just before a water change. It might be very clearly less than your tap water, which would indicate your plants and/or your bio-filter are slowly consuming it.

The yellowing leaves and faded new growth do sound like nutrient issues, especially if this tank supported good growth in the past.

I can't say adding a small amount of aragonite will fix your plant nutrient and algae problems, but it would buffer pH. Think of it more as a preventive against pH crashes than something for the plants.

An aquarium plant guru popular in the U.S. (Tom Barr) came to my aquarium club and recommended a KH of at least 4 in tanks where CO2 is injected. Otherwise, the CO2 can cause the pH to swing too much. This not a law but just a guideline, but one aimed at preventing problems.

Fertilizing plants is a large topic in itself. I am not an expert and I'm not sure I can help you there. My personal experience led me through trying to go "high tech" and inject CO2 and fertilizers using Tom Barr's "EI" method, but this made my tank run "hot". By that I mean I was constantly having to monitor it, make sure all the parameters were still in balance (such as buffering my KH higher by adding minerals in powder form), add this or that fertilizer with regularity, etc. When it would get out of whack it would happen quickly, with algae outbreaks, etc. Now I run lower light, no fertilizers, and rely on fish waste and water changes to "feed" the plants. They grow much slower, but I have almost no algae, and the water parameters are much more stable. I will say that there are no Discus in my planted tank.

Paulsha
01-12-2016, 04:20 PM
Cheers for your help.

I have checked the tube from above and it is blue but still not fully from the tap so at least there is some kh from that. I added the crushed oyster shell 2 nights ago after my normal 50% WC so 48 hours on it now reads 2 from the tank eithen with a 50% change last night when my nitrates went up, most likely from feeding all day Sunday as I was at home and every time I stood up the discus decided to come to the front and beg lol (they had twice what they normally have in a day in loads of small feelings).

I looked on my local water suppliers website and found the info but it was for 2014 so out of date, seeing this I sent and email and got a call this morning (very quick service), I was told that the 2015 info would be available by June but that the water source has stayed the same so I shouldn't be seeing the difference I am and they asked me what I was using to test the water. Having told them what it use to be and them agreeing that their 2014 info was the same as the reading I got then I was told I would have to wait for 2015's info to be released (not so helpful), maybe it is a seasonal thing and maybe due to the amount of rainfall we have had, some areas near me have been flooded.

I suppose I am going to have to keep checking my water and see what happens with the crushed oyster shell being in the filter now, hopefully it helps to stabilise thinks and puts my mind at ease about the ph dropping, ph is now up to 6.8 tonight.

It regards to the plants and green spot algae. The first 6 months of this tank being setup everything use to grow like mad then I got the BGA problem which after changing the whole tank, gravel to sand and 1/2 bare bottom, disappeared until a small 1inch part appeared a few days ago. I vacuumed that out and haven't seen any more yet just the green spot stuff. The plants are still growing but just the one is showing poor leaves etc.

What should I test for the plants to see if I can work out what is wrong and could it be down to the water from the tap changing or maybe upgrading my lighting to LEDs, or a combination of things.

It really is a good job I'm still enjoying the fish, love the real plant look and am happy to keep testing. Also good that I can do a quick water change when needed with the HMA filter running off my hot and cold taps, and the hosepipe connector in the canister filter plumbing to remove the water without too much messing around, HMA pipe to tank, hosepipe out the door to the drain and turn taps, couldn't get much easier unless I can find a way to fix the plumbing for it all in place, don't think leaving a hosepipe across my front room would be appreciated haha

Filip
01-13-2016, 04:07 AM
Switching to commercial Led light is the main cause of poor plant growth and this leaves algae a chance to dominate.
Eather go back to neon bulbs/pipes or buy a professional (read expensive ) Led lights designed for plant growth.

Paulsha
01-13-2016, 05:39 AM
The ones I went with are the zetlight zp4000 series with controller which said they are for a planted tank. The fish didn't like the normal tubes turning on and use to swim fast for half the tank, they are a lot better now and are happy to just swim round while they fade up and down to the set brightness. The plants have started to grow more as well since using these lights.

I have the control to lower the light and they are currently set to 80%, should I try lowering or increasing this setting?