Any Heckel Projects for 2015-2016 ?

[jawfish]

Wild Season is just around the corner,

so whose getting a Heckel Project for 2015-2016 ?

Any body has already one going and want to share their experiences so far ? Any additions planned for 2015-2016.

In my case me plywood tanks got sidetracked a little bit, but work is starting again one them, but I'm not taking any chance. I've got two 65 gallons running as quarantine tanks waiting for some Heckels :o

Cheers,

Fred

[warblad79]

I got few heckels from last season, I'm planning to cross them

[jawfish]

I got few heckels from last season, I'm planning to cross them

love to see them ;-)

Anybody else ?

[Phillydubs]

Hey cool thread I hope more people respond ... I love heckles myself. I have 2 heckle crosses from Eric at carolina discus and they are really nice and interesting strains. So I guess it's not exactly a heckle project but good luck to all who are lucky enough to get some this year and hope to see it all here.

Hey jawfish, what is your plan for them? Have any staked out or reserved yet?

[warblad79]

I'm saving my money and tank space for wild season. I like to get more high quality heckels from Mark Chen. I'm planning to cross them to Giant Flora, Straight Line Giant Turk and Altum Flora.9126391264912659126691267

[jawfish]

Right now I'm waiting to received them :-)

My goal is to grow them and try to have a spawm. It will be interesting to see.

Warblad79 any courting happening in that tank... there some nice heckel in there.

[rickztahone]

I'm saving my money and tank space for wild season. I like to get more high quality heckels from Mark Chen. I'm planning to cross them to Giant Flora, Straight Line Giant Turk and Altum Flora.
if you end up successfully breeding any of those, please shoot me a pm :)

[warblad79]

if you end up successfully breeding any of those, please shoot me a pm :)

Will do, I will definitely post them here.

[jawfish]

The quarantine tank is running. I've got two double sponge filters running plus a dmall aquaclear. I have an old wet dry that I never really liked since it has a small sump... then it it me might just drill the bottom and have it flow in a 20 gallon tank... add a couple of baffles and it would be a decent filter. liked I didn't have enought on my plate ;)

This is the tank just waiting for 12 small heckels to come in ;)
91387

One thing I really need to improve are my pictures taking skills ;)

Cheers,
Fred

[briztoon]

Can I ask what a heckel project is. Does it involve wild heckles or can heckel crosses be included?

[Driftwood Mike]

Looking forward to seeing the progress on your project. All the best and many, many successful spawns

[jawfish]

For me a Heckel project is for Heckels only. Unfortunetly I don't really consider man-made heckel cross part of this as the main goal iis to further advance the knowledge on the Heckels.

As a preparation to my project I've been going trough the 10 pages of this section... I see there was a real awakening a while back but kinda died down lately. One thing that strikes me is that they seem to be different much different than the other 3 species of wild discus. Not just in water and feeding requirement, but also in behaviour.

My ultimate goal is to attempt to breed them, I understand in the end I will need their cooperation ;) but I will try to satisfy their needs with all I have learn going trough these pages, reading several books and papers and several discussions with others who have attempted this.

The sticky on top of this section explains very well what a Heckel Project is:


Hi all,
At the request of Heckel afficinados We have added a special section that we have called

THE HECKEL PROJECT
All information on Symphysodon discus can be posted in this section. Questions and information on other wild species or domestic discus should not be posted in this section, but in the other sections of the forum where they best fit.[/URL][URL="http://www.fishbase.org/Eschmeyer/EschPiscesSummary.cfm?ID=11186"] (http://www.fishbase.org/Eschmeyer/EschPiscesSummary.cfm?ID=11186)

Our purpose is to build an informational database on the requirements of wild Heckels and their biology. It is hoped that with such a knowledge base hobbyists and breeders may be able to captive breed Symphysodon discus in a consistent manner.

All hobbyists with an interest in this project are asked to share their research, knowledge, and experience in this endeavor. It is a project open to everyone.

Please use this section as you would any other section of the forum, and keep in mind that all forum rules apply here.

Thanks and please wish us luck in this endeavor.

The Simply Team


Cheers

Fred

[briztoon]

Thanks jawfish.

I rarely go in to the sections, but rather use the new posts function, and often do not even think about checking the top of the page to see which section a thread comes from.

Good luck with your heckels and I look forward to following your updates.

[yogi]

First I want to say good luck and then give a few suggestions. I hope they help, but I am really not sure they will.

I had a theory at one time to buy them small and grow them up in a tank so they can adjust to captivity. This might
work but it's a long time project because small wild discus grow much slower than small domestic discus. So I now
suggest to get medium to large wilds.


Wild discus breed in captivity so heckles should also. Most wild discus are unique in pattern and you can sometimes
guess male from female. But heckles are like clones of each other and I don't think there is anyway to guess. Of course
you will be 50 percent right if you do. So buy a lot and hope some are female.


The line don't adjust your water because discus can adjust does not hold true for wilds and especially for heckeks.
We are talking about wild discus that have lived and evolved for hundreds of year in soft, low ph water. These are not
f-50 red-turks or f-25 pigeon bloods. Peat moss also helps a lot with wilds as well as dim lighting.


So low ph and don't be afraid of ph in the 5's or even falling into the high 4's. A lot of the success of keeping wild altums
alive is the fact that wholesalers are now putting them in ph in the 4's. They are adjusting better to captivity and there fins
are no longer melting off. The altums can then be adjusted up after the first couple weeks.

I don't like the use of tds meters and only believe in conductivity meters so conductivity under 100 and even under 50 when
trying to breed them. I have know idea what this means in tds since some meters multiply the conductivity by .7 and other meters multiply it by .5.

Dim lighting is easy enough. The use of peat moss filtered water acts like a low strength di water filter and it adds tannins and
humus into the water that the fish really seem to like. You have been around long enough that I don't need to mention water changes.

As far as diet I have always found heckles willing to eat the same things as my other discus. I personally believe in a more meat than vegetable
diet for discus. But heckles will also eat flakes and pellets.

So good luck to anyone trying to breed heckles.

[jawfish]

Hi Jerry, I hear you: Don't fight them, join them, approach to water chemistry.

For me this is an experiment. Its not about adapting them to my conditions, but more adapting my conditions towards them. I've been preparing water for most of my discus keeping, the only difference now is just putting more peat than normally and aiming for a conductivity of 70-80us to start ... I know for breeding it needs to go down low... really low 10-20us. The PH right now is a 5.5, but this is a new tank, I figure once the fish will be in it will drop naturally. Like you said I have no issues with it being at 4.0-4.5... even when I'll attempt to trigger them to spawn with a very low conductivity... One suggestion was just adding a small piece of coral in the sump... not enough to raise the PH or the conductivity by much, but just enough to prevent it from crashing.

Yhea I was debating between the small and medium. I ordered the small... Will see how they come in this week. I'm under no illusion. I won't see any action before 2017 if I'm lucky. That's a lot of responsibilities on my and a lot of chances to screw up. I'm used to growing my discus so the patience is there, but this is a new frontier for me. I've never attempted to grow some wild Heckels before. I do believe that there's probably a better chance to breed when getting smaller Heckels, but history doesn't seem to indicate this, as all the success I know was with specimen acquired as adults... hmmm. Still I believe you need to learn to grow your discus, before breeding them and this is how I first started 28 years ago: This is how I wanted to start with the Heckels. I have to admit that Its nice to go back revisit your beginning.

Unfortunately we often learn by our mistakes, I hope that I'll keep avoiding them. Once I receive them I'll start a dedicated tread, I'll try to post weekly updates, to is to learn and exchange... It will last as long as it will... I may not succeed, but I'll try :o

Cheers,

Fred

[The Irons]

920709207192072920739207492075
My group are housed in a 92 gallon reef ready corner tank with wet/dry filtration. I keep the temp at 86-88. All water is RO filtered through peat, which gives a pH 5 & a TDS around 70. They are fed a variety of frozen & freeze dried foods along with locally made BH mix. Other tank mates are a small group of F1 L180 & Otto cats. They have been in this setup around 7 months now & have become really well settled. I believe there is a potential pair, that constantly stay to the right side of tank & defend that area from the others. Sorry about the rotated pics

[jawfish]

Nice... you need to post more on them :)

Where did you get them from ?

[The Irons]

Thanks. I drove down & got them from John (Snook).

[rickztahone]

Very nice group. The only thing that kind of jumps out to me is your temp. Have you considered lowering it a little from your current 86-88F?

[fishguy456]

if you end up successfully breeding any of those, please shoot me a pm :)

Me too please!

[The Irons]

Very nice group. The only thing that kind of jumps out to me is your temp. Have you considered lowering it a little from your current 86-88F?

Thanks. Honestly, I really haven't considered dropping the temp as I've mainly read that Heckels do occur in warmer waters than other Discus. My friend who is a long time Heckel keeper also tends to keep his on the warmer side & so I've just followed his lead. My tank temp probably sits closer to 86 than actually 88, but I have 2 heaters & so there is always that variation of a degree or so between each heater & the thermometer.

[rickztahone]

Thanks. Honestly, I really haven't considered dropping the temp as I've mainly read that Heckels do occur in warmer waters than other Discus. My friend who is a long time Heckel keeper also tends to keep his on the warmer side & so I've just followed his lead. My tank temp probably sits closer to 86 than actually 88, but I have 2 heaters & so there is always that variation of a degree or so between each heater & the thermometer.

I would do as you are doing considering that you would have way more heckel experience than I do as I have never had them. I know they are a little different to deal with, so if you have had success so far, keep doing it :)

[Jack L]

3rd on babies if you have them.

what is the root ball to in back? some sort of floating plant?


p.s. nice setup

[The Irons]

what is the root ball to in back? some sort of floating plant?


Thanks. I have some Pothos that sits on the glass canopy & below the LEDs & that is the clump of roots it has formed. It gives the L180's a place to hide & I'm sure also helps with nutrient uptake. I added the Pothos & some floating Amazon Frogbit, to help give the Discus a sense of overhead cover.