New to Discus - can I run my plan past you?

[Dave-UK]

Hi all,
As the title suggests I am new to Discus though I've been an admirer for a while. I've been into fish keeping for only a year now so I'm no pro, but I've kept Rams, Plecos and Guppys always with the intention of 'learning the ropes' and basics for now to employ at a later date for more advanced fish. So I've decided to purchase a Fluval Roma 240 for myself whilst they're on special offer at the moment, with the intention of stocking it with 6 discus, along with my Plecos and Rams.
So my plan is as follows:
- the new tank will turn up in the next week or so
- I'm maturing some bacteria on a pouch of Seachem Matrix which will move into the Fluval 306 to start. I'll run a fishless cycle in there until it can remove about 1-2ppm of Ammonia through to Nitrate in 24 hours. That should be sufficient bacterial colonisation for 2 Plecos and 2 Rams!
- The new 240 will have a thin layer of sand, some wood (probably red moor) and Limnobium Laevigatum (Amazon Frogbit) floating plants (which I'm growing in my other tank now)
- I intend to do water changes every other day removing 75L each time (roughly 30%) and on days where I don't do a scheduled water change I will clean any visible rubbish off the sand. This may differ some weeks as I can work away 2-4 days a time about once a month but I can compensate by doing consecutive/larger changes as necessary
- My tap water comes out at pH 6.8, KH 6-8deg, GH 4deg. I believe this is good, and it doesn't change much when left, though sometimes the pH can read 6.6.
- Once the Plecos and Rams are in the tank I'll give them a month or so whilst I get the rest of the tools and supplies I need and start looking for some Discus

Now, on the Discus front. I have several options for fish suppliers in my local area (North East England) but I believe the two best suppliers are Maidenhead Aquatics or Douglas Bros/Sunshiro Koi. I know this forum is largely USA-based but I guess someone must live near me to be able to give their opinion on them. Anyway, I have looked at their stock on recent visits using the guidance provided on this site, if I go for Maidenhead Aquatics I'll be looking at around £35 per fish for a 3-4" example in good health. They have a number of pigeonbloods in at the moment which are beautiful. Douglas Bros are Koi specialists (nationally recognised I believe) but have started selling tropical fish as one of the owners keeps them as a hobby. I'm not sure on their Discus expertise but having looked there last week they have a stock of 2-4" fish, all well proportioned, no pinched foreheads and active swimmers for around £20-30 per fish with multibuy deals on 6+ I think. I couldn't see if they were on a central filtration system but I believe they know what they're doing going off their CV.

Once purchased I'll retain the discus in my hospital tank for around 4 weeks to check health and worm before moving them into the 240.

This is largely open question, but can anyone share their opinions on this plan?
Also, what are your opinions on feeding with NL Spectrum Thera+A? I use it now as a mainstay in my fishes diet but I've not come across it yet on this forum.
I will continue to research in the mean time and hopefully plug any gaps in my own mind but your opinions are more than welcome.
Thank you

[Skip]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?48-Discus-Basics-for-Beginners

look here.. this is a great place to research..

[Dave-UK]

Yes, I'm working my way through the beginners Information Index now. So much to read!

[Skip]

Yes, I'm working my way through the beginners Information Index now. So much to read!

i was overwhelmed also.. at first.. but i soon discovered.. what ever my question was.. i would "GOOGLE the term/question" and then add Simply Discus to end of search.. LOL>>

or use advanced search "title only" for certain keywords.. :)

clean water via daily changes is key :)

[discuspaul]

Welcome to the forum, Dave.

It seems you have done a reasonable amount of advance research, but it certainly wouldn't hurt for you to go through the Discus Basics 'Stickies', as recommended by Skip.

A key factor for you is to ensure you're getting good quality, healthy and well-shaped fish from the outset. This is the single most important facet to more or less ensure a novice being successful with discus-keeping. If you're fully satisfied with that aspect, go for it.

But if I may suggest, given your intended wc regimen being less than daily, and not necessarily every second day without fail, you consider fish in the 4" or larger range, rather than risk stunting 3" specimens.

One smallish matter - the size and strain of Plecos you plan to keep with the discus may be potentially problematic.
Bristle-Noses are just fine, but some other strains, especially when larger & lazier, MAY at some point take a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet. Just something to watch out for.

And please ensure you do a proper quarantine of the fishes, whether you place the discus in the tank first, or after you have introduced the Rams & Plecos.

Best of luck to you.

[Dave-UK]

i was overwhelmed also.. at first.. but i soon discovered.. what ever my question was.. i would "GOOGLE the term/question" and then add Simply Discus to end of search.. LOL>>

or use advanced search "title only" for certain keywords.. :)

clean water via daily changes is key :)

I think that has often happened by chance for me. Usually the best answers are found on Simply Discus which is why I decided to join here ;)


Welcome to the forum, Dave.

It seems you have done a reasonable amount of advance research, but it certainly wouldn't hurt for you to go through the Discus Basics 'Stickies', as recommended by Skip.

A key factor for you is to ensure you're getting good quality, healthy and well-shaped fish from the outset. This is the single most important facet to more or less ensure a novice being successful with discus-keeping. If you're fully satisfied with that aspect, go for it.

But if I may suggest, given your intended wc regimen being less than daily, and not necessarily every second day without fail, you consider fish in the 4" or larger range, rather than risk stunting 3" specimens.

One smallish matter - the size and strain of Plecos you plan to keep with the discus may be potentially problematic.
Bristle-Noses are just fine, but some other strains, especially if larger & lazier, MAY at some point take a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet. Just something to watch out for.

And please ensure you do a proper quarantine of the fishes, whether you place the discus in the tank first, or after you have introduced the Rams & Plecos.

Best of luck to you.

Yeah I think 'reasonable' is probably where I'm at with the research - it could be better!

I am tempted by the larger fish available at Maidenhead. I know because they are a chain the price is slightly elevated and people tend to steer clear of them for specialist fish but the guy I speak to there seems to know his stuff and almost every time I go there they are cleaning or changing the water (which is obviously a good sign).

As for the plecos they are 1 x L044 Blue eyed yellow bristlenose and 1 x L199 Hypancistrus Furunculus, both only growing to 5-6" or thereabouts. They were purchased with the consideration of them living together in a 100L tank so I knew not to get anything that would outgrow it. I don't foresee any issues with those two, and I know the rams will be just fine.

For quarantine I intend to keep them in the hospital tank I have, though it's a smallish 70L which isn't ideal I'm hoping it'll be ok for a few weeks or maybe longer if need be. I'll use the Kusuri wormer I use now (Flub-based wormer) and just keep a general eye on their health and see if I can spot any problems. I've learnt from past mistakes in this area in purchasing rams which proved to be riddled with parasites, and I lost a few guppies with them, that was a bad week for fish in my house! I'd rather over-quarantine them than rush it. Do you think having 6 4" discus in a 70L tank will stress them out?

[discuspaul]

I offer my elaboration below on the quarantine process, Dave, because I'm unsure through your wording as to what exactly your methodology will be.

You may well know this, but just to be sure it's clear to you, it isn't enough to simply isolate for a time any new acquisitions, from the fish already in the main tank, in order to be satisfied they are seemingly healthy.

One needs to expose both sets of fishes to each other to determine if there is any cross-contamination.

This means that (assuming the discus are placed in the main tank first), after a suitable observation period in the QT tank ( say 3-4 weeks) of the newly-acquired other fish - the Rams & Plecos together - then a single discus (the least desirable one) should be placed into the QT tank with the dither fish for a period of up to 6 weeks or so, to ensure there is no cross-contamination of any kind.

If all is well after that period, then all the fish in QT can be placed into the main tank.

If it is the Rams & Plecos that are in the main tank first, then one of the discus in the QT tank (again the least desirable one) should be placed in the main tank with the dither fish & that group observed for 6 weeks or so.

If all is well, the remaining discus in QT may be placed in the main tank.

Having 6 - 4" discus in the 70L QT tank should be just fine for that temporary period.

[Dave-UK]

I offer my elaboration below on the quarantine process, Dave, because I'm unsure through your wording as to what exactly your methodology will be.

You may well know this, but just to be sure it's clear to you, it isn't enough to simply isolate for a time any new acquisitions, from the fish already in the main tank, in order to be satisfied they are seemingly healthy.

One needs to expose both sets of fishes to each other to determine if there is any cross-contamination.

This means that (assuming the discus are placed in the main tank first), after a suitable observation period in the QT tank ( say 3-4 weeks) of the newly-acquired other fish - the Rams & Plecos together - then a single discus (the least desirable one) should be placed into the QT tank with the dither fish for a period of up to 6 weeks or so, to ensure there is no cross-contamination of any kind.

If all is well after that period, then all the fish in QT can be placed into the main tank.

If it is the Rams & Plecos that are in the main tank first, then one of the discus in the QT tank (again the least desirable one) should be placed in the main tank with the dither fish & that group observed for 6 weeks or so.

If all is well, the remaining discus in QT may be placed in the main tank.

Having 6 - 4" discus in the 70L QT tank should be just fine for that temporary period.

Thanks for that Paul. My initial plan was not thorough enough as it did not cover the cross-contamination test. I have read that previously but not considered necessary for the more community-orientated fish I have - but discus are obviously a bit different.
That is very good advice though thank you. I need to consider which direction is best to take nearer the time, though I suspect I will go with the first described option as it allows most fish to be in a more comfortably-sized space for the longest time.

[discuspaul]

Thanks for that Paul. My initial plan was not thorough enough as it did not cover the cross-contamination test. I have read that previously but not considered necessary for the more community-orientated fish I have - but discus are obviously a bit different.
That is very good advice though thank you. I need to consider which direction is best to take nearer the time, though I suspect I will go with the first described option as it allows most fish to be in a more comfortably-sized space for the longest time.

Re: your last sentence : - Exactly.

Additionally:
Just as pertinent, it allows the discus the opportunity to become quite comfortable with their new surroundings, and you the chance to familiarize yourself with their traits and behaviors, before the distraction of the addition of other tank-mates.

[briztoon]

My initial thoughts are, the tank is sort of on the small side for keeping six adult discus. And don't add a pleco, it creates far to much waste for any perceived benefit, especially if you are not going to be keeping up with daily water changes.

Very Good watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=196&v=VXe3VKh7qF8

Also worth joining Discus Revolution on FB to find the best quality discus at the best prices in the UK.

[Dave-UK]

My initial thoughts are, the tank is sort of on the small side for keeping six adult discus. And don't add a pleco, it creates far to much waste for any perceived benefit, especially if you are not going to be keeping up with daily water changes.

Very Good watch this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=196&v=VXe3VKh7qF8

Would you think 5 or 4 is a more suitable number? I was told by the guy in Maidenhead that 180L per 2 discus was ideal but I've never seen anyone stock at such a low level lol
The reason for the plecos to be in that tank is because I want to use my 100L (where they currently are) for an aquascaping. I've been trying to carpet some DHG there for a while and every night (honestly) the bristlenose destroys about 15% of it and I have to replant it the next day. There's no point in levelling sand now because it gets resurfaced by him all the time haha and the hypancistrus just digs pits in the sand and uproots everything.

I've seen that video before, it's very thorough, hence I digested about 5% of it first time around lol I will have to revisit it a fair few times in the coming months I'm sure!

[discuspaul]

Keeping 5 discus would be less of a bio-load burden than 6 of course, but don't opt for 4 - not a good number to keep due to potential excessive pecking order aggression.
Imo, 6 Discus nonetheless remains quite doable in your tank, with 4-5 large wcs weekly and a good tank cleansing routine.

[briztoon]

My solution is always buy a bigger tank.

In regards to the video, it's one of the videos or podcasts I regularly put on and listen to it when I'm doing water changes, so I hear it once or twice a week.

[Dave-UK]

Keeping 5 discus would be less of a bio-load burden than 6 of course, but don't opt for 4 - not a good number to keep due to potential excessive pecking order aggression.
Imo, 6 Discus nonetheless remains quite doable in your tank, with 4-5 large wcs weekly and a good tank cleansing routine.

Ok, minimum of 5 then. I suspect one of the big limitations will be how many healthy fish I can find within reasonable travelling distance. I'm always reluctant to purchase online or without seeing them in the flesh too.


My solution is always buy a bigger tank.

In regards to the video, it's one of the videos or podcasts I regularly put on and listen to it when I'm doing water changes, so I hear it once or twice a week.

For the money (and subsequent value) I can't complain with the 240, so I'll have to suit the occupants to the kit in this case so I was tempted by a used Juwel Rio 400 for a while.

And really? That's crazy! haha

I'll check out that FB page also, thank you :)