Rio Negro Heckel Project

[jawfish]

I decided to start my own tread on this Heckel Project.

As I had previously mentioned, in the Heckel breeding tread, that I wanted to start with a group of small Heckels to grow-up and try to breed, when I saw that snookn21 had some available last month I jumped on the opportunity and ordered 12. I'm a few years late since I wanted to do this 3 years ago, but better late than never.

Right now I have them in a 65 gallons quarantine tank. Although I had originally set up the tanks at a low PH 5.0. I raised it to 6.4 when I noticed the water they came in was at 7.1..., raising is a lot easier than lowering. I just added 2 gallons of age untreated water to the aquarium. I should have checked with John, that's my fault. I will be bringing the PH down to 5.0 for the next 2 weeks and then I'll bring it lower to 4.0-4.5 slowly after.

Right now that tank is filtered by 2 double sponge filter and a small aquaclear. I'm replacing the aquaclear but I'm debating between a wet dry or an eheim 2217. One thing is for sure I'll be hooking up a small UV to the output.

The discus came in pretty good. I have to admit that John did a very nice job packaging them, one of the best I've seen so far.

I received them this morning and they are still very skittish, yet the are constantly picking at the sand. They were looking for food so I decided to try some frozen blood worms. They started picking at them and finally eating the whole cube...

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/fia289/12043141_10206485171102749_9083394610657924283_n.j pg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/fia289/12195980_10206485170902744_947666978381893745_n.jp g

Here's a lousy phone video of them tonight eating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3y5-CvwzUg

Cheers,



Fred

[Altum Nut]

They look great Fred...lucky you early Christmas package.
I am very positive that this group will not let you down. Are they eventually going to be housed in your plywood tank.
Going to be a challenge keeping that low ph stable but know you have this all covered with lots of research under your belt.

...Ralph

[rickztahone]

Very cool Fred. I saw John had these on sale and I figured they'd get snatched up quick! Good luck with the project.

[jawfish]

Thanks Ralph... yes they will be moving to one of the plywood tanks in a couple of months. Yes the low ph is going to be interesting, I have several options and I'll be sharing them here.

Indeed Ricardo that group is nice. I was tempted to take the mediums but I've always wanted a group of small Heckel..

With the import laws here mean I need to wait 90 days before bringing another group from the states... just enough time to finish the plywood tanks and their filters :)

Cheers
Fred

[rickztahone]

Oh right! Your plywood tank! Any progress pics?

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great Fred. I would suggest to keeping up with water changes on these guys even if you need to bump the ph up a bit. I am very careful to not cross over 7 with the young altums and their ph ATM is 5.65 and they are doing great.
Pat

[jawfish]

Very cool Fred. I saw John had these on sale and I figured they'd get snatched up quick! Good luck with the project.

They took a little break. Building those two was a pain without proper work space... So I built the stand for them now I can continue working on them on their stand. This is my biggest stand to date. its 126 inch long by 32 inches wide and 28 inches high... There's 12 legs, made of two 2X4 supporting this guys. between the tanks I have some space to put two 26 inch by 4 inch diameter Siporax towers. You can also see the 40 gallons sumps underneath each plywood tanks
don't mind the mess, just part of trying to do a fish room reorg while some fish are still there
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Because my basement floor is a joke and so uneven I decided to build adjustable bases out of 1/8 steel, 1/2 bolts and nuts... This is overkill when I compare my 130 gallons stand with six 3/8 adjustable feet, but I'd rather be on the safe side. the nut is welded on the plate, and the plate screws in the bottom of the doubled 2X4. But I love just having to take a wrench and making the adjustments to get my stand level.
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[jawfish]

They look great Fred. I would suggest to keeping up with water changes on these guys even if you need to bump the ph up a bit. I am very careful to not cross over 7 with the young altums and their ph ATM is 5.65 and they are doing great.
Pat

Thanks Pat, I like them alot.

I agree, that PH needs to come down. I just didn't want to try to acclimate them in a couple of hours from 7 to 5. The PH is at 6.4 right now, but the conductivity is at 55us, Tonight I'm doing a 30% water change and going to start bringing it down. I really want to keep them below 5, but go just a little higher for the conductivty.

Cheers,

Fred

[John_Nicholson]

Nice.

-john

[rickztahone]

Looking really good Fred. Keep the updates coming ;)

[jawfish]

Thanks John,

Ricardo just for you buddy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tytMNZw7sU8

[Jack L]

very cool, jealous, we only have carnival fish.

[plecocicho]

Nice heckels indeed. That plywood tank will be a real monster, cant wait how it will look fully decorated.

[jawfish]

Thanks JackL,

Plecochio, thanks I've been wanting to get a batch of small Heckels for 3 years... Just concentrated on domestic discus instead... my mistake, but I'm correcting this now.

Yhea the plywood tank is going to sweet. it will only be decorated with some nice wood and sand plus a few roots os some pothos at the top. After discussing with NanDiscus, I feel I may need an even bigger tank, but that was the reason to build those two to learn from them. This will only happen when I move wich should be within the next 12 months.

on another note these guys love FDBW, I just soak them a few minutes and release them on the output of the aquaclear, they need the food at the bottom of the tank, anything on the top 2/3 is simply not considered as food. once they started taking the FDBW they started eating some pellets once they went down with the worms...

I did do a 30% water change last night, PH is still at 6.4 and the conductivity at 65us, but tonight they will be getting another 40% but with a lower PH to bring it down in the 6.0-6.1 range...

Cheers,

Fred

I was going to putthe eheim, but I'm going with the wet dry instead.

[Second Hand Pat]

Fred, you can acclimate them to eat in the upper reaches of the tank. Allow the cube to roll in the current where the water returns from the Aquaclear. The water flow will roll the cube and discharge the worms in the water column.
Pat

[jawfish]

Fred, you can acclimate them to eat in the upper reaches of the tank. Allow the cube to roll in the current where the water returns from the Aquaclear. The water flow will roll the cube and discharge the worms in the water column.
Pat

Thanks Pat, I'll try that. Right now I think they are still debating if I'm a big Piranha about to eat them or the guy that send the food from the sky, but they're leaning on the Piranha side mostly :D

[majapaja]

Hey Fred, my friend,
looks very good. This will be great. Try to get them to eat food with fruit elements. Think that just Heckel feel great with lots of vitamins. Especially when it's breed times. Impressive aquarium! Wish you the best Patrik :)

[jawfish]

Hey Patrik buddy, nice to see you here :D, thanks. I'm glad you like them. Yes Fruits is in the plan, I have a fish mixture with fruits and Vegetable that I plan to introduce in the next few days. As for pieces of fruits any particular you recommend ?

The Heckels have come to see me as the guy that makes the food fall from the sky, They now come at the top and take the the FDBW. I have introduce some Discus Gran pellets that they are starting to take and some small pieces of flakes also.

PH has been lowered to 5.9... Will continue to lower it slowly and aiming to get it in the low 5 at the end of the week.

Cheers,

Fred

[Jack L]

Thanks JackL,

Plecochio, thanks I've been wanting to get a batch of small Heckels for 3 years... Just concentrated on domestic discus instead... my mistake, but I'm correcting this now.

Yhea the plywood tank is going to sweet. it will only be decorated with some nice wood and sand plus a few roots os some pothos at the top. After discussing with NanDiscus, I feel I may need an even bigger tank, but that was the reason to build those two to learn from them. This will only happen when I move wich should be within the next 12 months.

on another note these guys love FDBW, I just soak them a few minutes and release them on the output of the aquaclear, they need the food at the bottom of the tank, anything on the top 2/3 is simply not considered as food. once they started taking the FDBW they started eating some pellets once they went down with the worms...

I did do a 30% water change last night, PH is still at 6.4 and the conductivity at 65us, but tonight they will be getting another 40% but with a lower PH to bring it down in the 6.0-6.1 range...

Cheers,

Fred

I was going to putthe eheim, but I'm going with the wet dry instead.

you probably know this, but i found the FDBW cube adheres nicely to the glass, you could just stick it on the glass low maybe

[Jack L]

They took a little break. Building those two was a pain without proper work space... So I built the stand for them now I can continue working on them on their stand. This is my biggest stand to date. its 126 inch long by 32 inches wide and 28 inches high... There's 12 legs, made of two 2X4 supporting this guys. between the tanks I have some space to put two 26 inch by 4 inch diameter Siporax towers. You can also see the 40 gallons sumps underneath each plywood tanks
don't mind the mess, just part of trying to do a fish room reorg while some fish are still there
91710

Because my basement floor is a joke and so uneven I decided to build adjustable bases out of 1/8 steel, 1/2 bolts and nuts... This is overkill when I compare my 130 gallons stand with six 3/8 adjustable feet, but I'd rather be on the safe side. the nut is welded on the plate, and the plate screws in the bottom of the doubled 2X4. But I love just having to take a wrench and making the adjustments to get my stand level.
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curious, why are you building tanks out of wood?

[jawfish]

Yes I know jack, but the Heckels don't know yet what the cube is made of... I'm sure in a couple of days they will :-)

Well the way my basement stairs are right now the longest tank I can bring down is 50 inch long... So A 50X30X22 made sense, but it would need to be custom built. I know down the line I want bigger, much bigger and a Plywood tank is one possibility. I figured might as well do a test build with the 50X30X22 and see how it goes. So far I think I will build the monster tank in the same way but with some minor tweeks. definitely will use weaved cloth next time.

Cheers
Fred

[Jack L]

ah, makes sense. guess you could try acrylic too if you wanted to custom build.

[majapaja]

Hey Patrik buddy, nice to see you here :D, thanks. I'm glad you like them. Yes Fruits is in the plan, I have a fish mixture with fruits and Vegetable that I plan to introduce in the next few days. As for pieces of fruits any particular you recommend ?

The Heckels have come to see me as the guy that makes the food fall from the sky, They now come at the top and take the the FDBW. I have introduce some Discus Gran pellets that they are starting to take and some small pieces of flakes also.

PH has been lowered to 5.9... Will continue to lower it slowly and aiming to get it in the low 5 at the end of the week.

Cheers,

Fred

Hello,
Is also here sometimes :) Trying to avoid Facebook , im so tired of facebook.
I have various own food mixes to my Heckel.
In essence, I have always cod, clams and shrimp.
A mix I've just different berries and then I take what I find.
Blueberries, blackberries, cranberries, lingonberries, etc., just drive on.
Then I have a mix, with just different fruits.
Banana, pineapple, pear and so on. Just and test.
Then a third mix mixed with both fruits and berries, as well as spirulina.
I run every third day.
Which I think is very good for the stomach on the discus.
Just like people need to fish a healthy stomach to feel good.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Patrik, nice to see you here. :D

Fred, you might find this interesting. Post 18 in this thread http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86305-Edible-Greens-For-Wilds.


I did try to feed many different types of plant matter to my discus and I now have a rather long list of what they like and what they don't like.

The Xingús will eat:
watermelon
apricot
mulberries
raspberries
very sweet orange flesh
very ripe plum flesh
and the green algae I srape off of the insides of the tank. I always let them eat as much of it as they like before I vaccum the rest.

The Xingús will not eat:
spinach
bananas
pineapple
strawberries
cherries
and those I can't remember just now.

I don't prepare food mixes any longer so I try to keep my fish on a varied diet which -according to what I've read about wilds in general and what I've experienced in my own tank- I think should include some sort of greenery. I often see them graze on the branch that's closest to the neon tube and is covered with a thin film of beautifully green algae.

I guess this question of feeding or not feeding green stuff to our wilds is purely philosophical as many seem to be keeping them on a low-green diet and the fish are just fine. It is not something to have a debate about, but sharing experiences is definately a good thing to do. Mine are very different from the average I see above but I have no reason to question experiences different to mine.

Nandi

[jawfish]

Thanks Pat & Patrik :)

Yes fruits are getting on the menu thid week as well as my seafood mix with vegetable and fruits.

Cheers
Fred

[jawfish]

Hey Jack it didn't take them long to figure about the cubes on the glass

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Now its time to really work on the flakes and pellets... They do eat them but only when they are at the bottom and soft.
Also going to continue to introduce my seafood mix... It wasn't a success last night, but this is a long process :-)

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[Jack L]

nice. i made the mistake of cutting some cubes into smaller pieces, when i do that...it doesn't hold to the glass very long

now teach them to breed and ship me some juvies !
and i'll send you some jungle val, its my own strain, giant val laced with about 4 types of algae... its very rare ; )

[jawfish]

Here's a small video update, all are doing well and eating more and more pellets.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxE_eCr-zZk

[Second Hand Pat]

They are looking great Fred. :) How are you dropping the ph?
Pat

[NanDiscus]

Fred,
They are very pretty indeed and looking absolutely lively for wilds being in a new environment only for a week or so.
I quite like their overall appearance, looks like you're lucky with this lot.
My word of advice is to feed them on a very varied diet. Also, calculate the need for water changes, then take the result and double it. ;)

Nandi

[Jack L]

the what they move up and down is cool! like around 1:30
you could put that to music : )

[jawfish]

Pat I'm using peat, I have a bucket that I pump water into and it goes through a gallon and a half of peat. The bucket rest on the barrel cover and has a bulkhead at the bottom for the water to return to the barrel. I change the peat every two days. I figure might as well encourage the local peat harvesters :)
I'm filtering a mix of RO water and tap water. I'm able to get it at 5.4 without acid...

Yhea Jack they are cool... They are quite tame and curious when someone come to see them.

Nandi... You're right they need plenty of varied source of food... They are eating FDBW, Blood Worms, some white worms and chopped compost worms and pellets. They are not yet going much for my seafood mix. I need to get them to eat some fruits... Gonna go to get some plum and figues to try for them to eat. Plus I got some clams also.

Cheers,

Fred

[DJW]

Fred, how do you prevent the fine particles of peat from getting mixed up in the water? Do you let it settle or use a filter of some kind to trap the fines?

[Second Hand Pat]

You place a bunch of quilting batting in the bottom of the bucket and put your peat on top of that. I have used a bucket with peat like Fred describes.
Pat

[DJW]

I have been putting socks of peat in a dedicated HOB filter rather than circulating it through a barrel. Its the same principle on a smaller scale, with some floss on the downstream side of the peat. I suppose as long as there is a bypass of some sort in the event the floss gets plugged...

[jawfish]

I have been putting socks of peat in a dedicated HOB filter rather than circulating it through a barrel. Its the same principle on a smaller scale, with some floss on the downstream side of the peat. I suppose as long as there is a bypass of some sort in the event the floss gets plugged... I used to to that, when I needed to lower it at about 6.5, I'm building something similar but bigger. I want to add an inline heater to heat the water up more efficiently.

I clean everything every two-three days so I'm not worried, but I do rince the bags for at least 15 minutes to get rid of the dust before putting them in the bucket.

[Second Hand Pat]

Question Fred, do you use the peat bucket as part of your water prep and is it running on the tank?
Pat

[Jack L]

Pat I'm using peat, I have a bucket that I pump water into and it goes through a gallon and a half of peat. The bucket rest on the barrel cover and has a bulkhead at the bottom for the water to return to the barrel. I change the peat every two days. I figure might as well encourage the local peat harvesters :)
I'm filtering a mix of RO water and tap water. I'm able to get it at 5.4 without acid...

Yhea Jack they are cool... They are quite tame and curious when someone come to see them.

Nandi... You're right they need plenty of varied source of food... They are eating FDBW, Blood Worms, some white worms and chopped compost worms and pellets. They are not yet going much for my seafood mix. I need to get them to eat some fruits... Gonna go to get some plum and figues to try for them to eat. Plus I got some clams also.

Cheers,

Fred

why do you want them to eat fruit?

[Second Hand Pat]

why do you want them to eat fruit?

Part of their natural diet.

[jawfish]

Question Fred, do you use the peat bucket as part of your water prep and is it running on the tank?
Pat

As part of my water prep only. I'm not too crazy of running peat on the main tank.

Fred

[jawfish]

week 2 update:
Well not much to report except all are doing well. the two that came in with large chunks of fins missing are healing very well. I'm feeding them 4 times a day trying get 5 feedings on weekends they do need to make up some lost time and put more meat on the bone. Yes they are juveniles alright, chassing each other after a good feeding... In december they will be ready to go in their 140's :)

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[marinum]

I will follow this interesting project. Excellent tanck the wood! good job

[jawfish]

Thanks Marinum

Here this Sunday morning Video of my Heckels, I need to play with my camera to make better videos.

You will notice one not pretty Heckel in the center. I call him chunky... He's "flat top", and came in with large chunks of Anal and Dorsal fin missing. He was the skinniest discus of the group. He's been the one eating right from the start. He has been healing well and putting some meat on the bones. He's my indicator, he is the first fish I look at to see how thing are going in the group.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzP0Z74mlS8

[jawfish]

Heres this week update,

The wet dry is on the tank and doing its job well. Its an old amiracle 150 that I had from the late 90's, its filled with some small bioballs and I have a 800GPH pump running at 50% capacity... With the head pressure it muss be running at 250-275 gph. I've got the PH down to 5.4 now and I'm continuing to letting drop slowly.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exCfi3AHksQ

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[jawfish]

How about an update :)

Lets start with what going on water wise... I've been letting the PH drift down. Its about 5.2 right now, my conductivity is at 85us. Temperature has been lowered to 29C . I've been giving them some chopped up clams and they are getting more used to the pellets. One thing I did notice is they love to pick at whatever is floating by, the smaller the better almost. Up to this point I can't really say they are much harder than domestics. Yes I'm giving them the water they want, i.e. low acidity, on the soft side and colored with tannins from the peat. Getting them to eat everything is slow, but FDBW is Discus Chocolate, I've never had a healthy discus refuse them. I've got great filtration with a wet-dry and some sponge filter because I always have sponge filters just in case or seed the next tank. Speaking of next tank, the plywood tanks are going up slowly, just because I've put them aside, since were house shopping and I've got more pressing matters on hand. But I do want to transfer them to one plywood tank for new years, might as well start 2016 in a new tank ;) I'm also glad I'm building two as I'll have the other one ready for them when we move this spring.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMHRo_-TkFo

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[Pardal]

Love the thread , keep it coming.


Julian

[Second Hand Pat]

These are perfect Fred :D
Pat

[Jack L]

Love the thread , keep it coming.


Julian

+1

[jawfish]

Thanks Julian & Jack. The goal is to share the good and the bad from this Heckel adventure.

Thanks Pat, So far these guys have been a pleasant surprise from the start. They are just getting better and better every week. As we discussed elsewhere I'm not sure if they are Rio Negros. All the Rio Negros I see have dark almost black eyes. These have really a nice red eye. Will let time due its thing and reevaluate them once they are much older, One thing is for sure If John has them again next year I'm getting another group, and a bigger group for sure. Growing out discus is something I like to do. Watching them change, grow and color up is always interesting.

[jawfish]

Here a little video of the group eating fresh clam that a I cut really fine. They seem to really like picking at stuff just floating by.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SYlvLlrv-U

[woopaul5]

Looking good Fred!!! Looking forward to seeing these guys at full size

[jawfish]

Here's a quick photo updates on the Heckels, nowthing really to report except all is well. They are eating more and more the pellets and sticks. I haven't really have been giving them fruits but I will get there.

Water wise I've kept the conductivity at 85us, but the PH is now in the 4.8-4.9 region.

Fred
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[Jack L]

how much are they growing for you?

[woopaul5]

Looking good Fred! You finish the monster tank yet?

[jawfish]

They are growing slowly, not like domestic, it was expected. I haven't measured but I think the largest one put on at least 3/4 of an inch, maybe an inch in almost 2 months. The smaller ones are a little slower, there is growth in all of them, but not at the same rate.

The plywood tanks are now back on track, I'm putting the last coat of pondshields and then it will be time to silicon the glass :).I should transfer them in one in the next couple of weeks.

My wife and I decided to get out of the city so looking for a house took a bit of my free time. Now thats we've purchase the house we can move on. I stopped reorganizing my fishroom as we're moving in April. The good news is that the basement is unfinished so I can build the fishroom the way I want. I've got the basic layout done, now its just finalising the last design details, I should start construction in may as I have a couple of things to do before.

Cheers,
Fred

[jawfish]

Well the Holidays break is over, and to start the week here a video update of my Heckel Project
smile, apart from the fact that the group is doing well I really don't have much to report.
This has been an uneventful couple of months, since getting them and I'm crossing my fingers that it remains this way,



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayzwn2e6jEI

[Second Hand Pat]

They are doing very well Fred. Now feed those fish or they sure do seem like they were waiting for you to drop something in. lol
Pat

[Altum Nut]

Enjoyed the video update Fred.
Have you had any issues at keeping the ph that low but by the looks of the group they seem to be thriving just fine.
I see some show contenders in the wild class for Nada 2016...:thumbsup:

...Ralph

[jawfish]

Thanks Pat, they are always hungry.

Hi Ralph, no issues so far, but its still in the 4.4-4.9 range. But I think it will not go any lower the way I do things right now with my current peat. Its ok for now as I have any breeding attemps would only be at tried next year so I have untill then to work it out.
I have notice that when I feed the Tropical Wild Discus gran pellets my PH goes up by 0.1 :huh:

I'm not sure for 2016, but 2018 yhea it could be a possibility... They have at least another 12-16 months to grow...

But yhea will keep our fingers crossed.

Fred

[Jack L]

what are they reacting to, you?

[jawfish]

Yes me, they think I'm going to drop food... ;)

[Sergey]

These look fantastic, Fred! They've visibly grown.

Are those sponge filters seen in the videos all you're running for filtration?

Sergey.

[jawfish]

Thanks Sergey,

yes they have grown, but not at the same rate but I expected that since they did not come in at the same size.

No the sponge filters are just there because I have air available and I always have a few in all my tanks.
The real filtration is an old amiracle 150 wet dry filter with a 13W UV.
It's filled with Bio balls and some eheim effi fix. I have a filter pad on the drip plate that I rinse every 2nd day.

Cheers,

Fred

[Pardal]

Love the way they look, that is the way it should be begging for food, lol.

[jawfish]

Thanks Pardal,

Well no news is good news. Everyone is doing fine and eating like pigs.
I'm keeping the PH at 4.7 but the conductivity has been raised to 145us. These are growing discus and my experience with domestics has shown me that they grow better in harder water. Also Pats altum seem to do as well in a harder water.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1407.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1404.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1410.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1418.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1416.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1415.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1412.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1411.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v684/jawfish/Heckel/DSCN1409.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

They look great Fred. I will be curious if there is any different on growth with the addition minerals. Are you keeping records on a per fish basis? Hope to get my group soon so I can play too. :D
Pat

[woopaul5]

They look amazing Fred!!! Keep up the good work. You're making me want to get into Heckles...:cheesy:

[Phillydubs]

They really do look great, following this one closely!

Will they gain any color as they grow and mature or is this pretty much how they will stay except gain size and thickness?

[jawfish]

Thanks Everyone, I really enjoy this project.

Pat- I didn't measure anyone yet, I think I should to really confirm the benefit of a higher mineral content. I'm looking forward seeing yours Pat :-)

Paul- go for it they are almost another kind of discus

Phil- I expect yes, they are still young and normally they get their full coloration after 14-16 months. They still have a long way to go.

Here's a quick video from this morning.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrvpfUDvdls&feature=youtu.be

[jawfish]

Hers a new video I shot tonight while giving them flakes.
I dont have much to report, I feed them, they eat, I change water... In a couple of weeks they will already have been with me for 4 months... pfew how time fly..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtPpF0GwndE

Cheers,

Fred

[jawfish]

Project is still going strong.
I've just move them to a temporary 75 gallons tank... I notice some nice thickness while netting them out.
They are skittish but should be back to normal in the next few days. I'll try to shoot a video this weekend.

Cheers,

Fred

[Phillydubs]

Can't wait to see them Fred!

[jawfish]

I haven't taken a video yet, but I do have a picture in that beat up 75 gallon.
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[zchauvin]

Nice, they are looking healthy for sure. Interested to see what you can accomplish with these guys.

[rickztahone]

I haven't taken a video yet, but I do have a picture in that beat up 75 gallon.
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That is an excellent sight! Keep us updated Fred.

[jawfish]

Thanks Guys,

They were doing amazing untill tonight... actually most of them are still going good and all are a lot less shy since the move now.

BUT..... I notice one showing early signs of whirling disease... Damned, well I'm not waiting on this... following Andrew Soh's treatment with 3grn of metro per 100 liters and 200gr of salt per 100 liters and closed light.

I'll keep you guys posted on whats gonna happen in the next couple of weeks.

Cheers,
Fred

[rickztahone]

Darn Fred. I really hope you can nip this in the bud before it gets worse

[jawfish]

Darn Fred. I really hope you can nip this in the bud before it gets worse

I hope so too :)

I did catch this at the very early signs: prononce stress bars and colorfull body background and with very slight dashing and stiffening of the body. The 2 that I noticed did not yet whirl yet, but having seen this before I'm hoping for the best.

Cheers
Fred

[Phillydubs]

Ugh... This is not the type of update I was hoping for :(

Sorry to hear but it sounds like you are on top of these guys and really treating properly best of luck !

[Second Hand Pat]

Seriously crossing fingers for you Fred. Whirling hit me hard this last wilds season.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

Now you guys have me worried... If whirling can hit two great keepers what is gonna happen to my sorry a$$

[jawfish]

Thanks Pat...

Phillydubs, this is my 3rd encounter with this disease. The first encounter was in 1995 with a group of red spotted Tefe. The second encounter was with a group of stendker discus 2 years ago and now the Heckels. I'm trying to find a common ground and I have to admitt to being at a loss. Its not the water as the 3 occurance are in 3 different cities and different water source and parameter. It not a question of wild fish being affected as the stendker are thrully domesticated discus. Its not food base as the 3 times they were not eating the dame food combo. Filtration was different in the 3 case... canister vs sponge/k1 vs wet dry... all 3 groups were active and healthy before being hit. Like I daid I have no clue to what the cause is.

I'll keep you guys updated on what happens to this group no matter what. Its part of the experiment and learning process.

Cheers
Fred

[jawfish]

Also I will had that all 3 times the discus had been with me for several months these last 2 times this happen after having them for 6 months.

[DJW]

Fred, do you remember what time of year it appeared the first two times?

[jawfish]

Hi Dan,
The first two times was in the end of summer.

[woopaul5]

Terrible news, hope you can turn this one around. Best of luck

[Phillydubs]

Any updates?

[smsimcik]

Thanks Pat...

Phillydubs, this is my 3rd encounter with this disease. The first encounter was in 1995 with a group of red spotted Tefe. The second encounter was with a group of stendker discus 2 years ago and now the Heckels. I'm trying to find a common ground and I have to admitt to being at a loss. Its not the water as the 3 occurance are in 3 different cities and different water source and parameter. It not a question of wild fish being affected as the stendker are thrully domesticated discus. Its not food base as the 3 times they were not eating the dame food combo. Filtration was different in the 3 case... canister vs sponge/k1 vs wet dry... all 3 groups were active and healthy before being hit. Like I daid I have no clue to what the cause is.

I'll keep you guys updated on what happens to this group no matter what. Its part of the experiment and learning process.

Cheers
Fred

Just so you don't feel alone, I also went through whirling disease about 2-3 years ago with 2 different groups of Stendkers I got from Hans. I thought for a while that it was my water but I have had other discus since then with no signs of whirling.
I don't know if whirling is an infectious disease, genetic or something else but if someone ever figures out what causes it, they should receive some type of award.

[jawfish]

Thanks Steve,
Yhea from reading on the subject here I'm definetly not alone... This is the reason I love forums over facebook... Much more search friendly. This forums is great because of the quantity of quality contributors... lots of experience here.

I'll add another observation, The first two times it happened in bare bottom tanks, This time, a fine layer of sand that gets completely cleaned every water change.


Any updates?

Well Phill, I'm finishing day 2 of a 12 day treatment, since I closed the lights on this tank, they are skittish again.
I do not have any deaths at this points so I am happy, crossing my fingers and touching plenty of wood ;)

They are being fed some metrodinazole flakes.. yes these guys eat flakes like theres no tomorrow...

This whirling thing is a strange animal, fish die one after the other, never together, in a tankfull I've never seen more than a couple of discus affected at the same time, once one of them dies another one takes its place, you can go throught 80% of the tank this way.

I'm hopefull, These discus are my pride and joy. This Heckel project is something I wanted to do for several years and I expected some ups and down. The project is in a down period right now. I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing and write some notes down. I've really gotten the Heckel bug big time. Now I just got to be patient to get going up again :D

[DJW]

I sure don't want this to become a hospital thread, and wish for a good outcome.

Has anyone considered prions as a possible cause? This would put the focus on food. They are folded proteins that effect the nervous system.

[jawfish]

I agree, we should continue the discussion here: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?115050-Whirling-Disease

I've been observing them for several hours now and all is calm, no dashing, no whirling, no stiffening, no dark stress bars :)
I'm keeping the course :)

Cheers

[Jack L]

that is good news

[jawfish]

Small halfway update.
The Heckels are looking ok. No dashing, whirling or showing any symptoms... yes I've been touching plenty of wood. They are eating their single meal of metro flakes like pig, which is always a good sign in my eyes.

Cheers,

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

That is good news indeed Fred :D
Pat

[jawfish]

Quick Update

The 12 day treatment was completed yesterday.
So far so good. Will keep a very close eye on them from now on.

As expected they are no skittish again and hiding when I approach the tank... Will give them a few days. Need to pick up some batteries for the camera to make a quick video.

Cheers,

Fred

[Second Hand Pat]

Continue to cross fingers for you Fred. You might need to repeat the treatment in about five weeks. Looking forward to continue success with these guys.
Pat

[Phillydubs]

Great News Fred, really great! I would listen to pat but it sounds like you are on the right track! Way to spot and pounce early!

[jawfish]

Thanks...
No worries Phil... Pat's right...a 2nd treatment is planed in 4-5 weeks... right now I need to feed them well. They need to recuperate from this ordeal. I'm counting myself lucky in not having lost any heckels. I think not waiting for things to get worst and previous experience help a lot. Also having used the search button and reading on this here on simply was a big...big
..big plus... theres some real good treads here.

I'll try to film them latter tonight.
Cheers,
Fred

[jawfish]

hers a couple of picture from my beat up 75 gallons tank... The front glass is etch and marked... I can't wait to transfer these guys in the 140 gallons plywood tank in a couple of weeks.

98233

98234

and a real quick cell phone video... I promise I'll post a real video in the next couple of days..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=svugnDBdZP4

Cheers,
Fred

[Phillydubs]

Looking good man! Nice thick bar on those guys. All seem to be eating well...?

[jawfish]

Yes they are eating well, and less shy today which is perfect, they take any kind of food I give them, Flakes, Pellets, FDBW, Frozen foods, choped up compost worms, cooked mussales and raw clams...I can't complain on that front

[Phillydubs]

Wow that's impressive. My guys take blood worms and fdbw lol

[jawfish]

Well I've had them for almost 7 months now... At first they were picky. Bloodworms only. Them by breaking down some FDBW cubes they move on to them. Once I got tgem eating from the cube when holding it, I stuck it on the glass. I then tried the chop raw clams wich tgey ate very well. Then I tried the pellets. That took them some time... so did the flakes.... the chopped cooked mussels those they ate right away...

Its a long process, but if you stick with it, they will eventually eat everything.

Cheers
Fred

[jawfish]

Here a longer video of them today,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zQeTvmCh_w

[Phillydubs]

Who helped you move that tank???

Wolverine ...????

[jawfish]

Who helped you move that tank???

Wolverine ...????

:o

Its an old tank that I got for free... Moving discus is a pain. I actually set-up a few tanks in the new house in order to receive all may discus. The plan is to convert this ugly thing into a sump once for my 65's

I wouldn't be surprise if someone use some scotchbrite to clean the glass... some of this styff is pretty abrasive... I've seen a few tank ruined this way

[damian_ireland]

Here a longer video of them today,


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zQeTvmCh_w
looking good .

[Jack L]

Looks like they have done well

[marinum]

Fantastic

[jawfish]

Hi everyone one... Heckels are doing good. Still in the 75 gallons as I've been working in their new home, The Discus Room will have about 850 gallons of fun. It should be done by the September heres a couple teaser pics for you
99793
99794

Cheers,
Fred

[Altum Nut]

Congrats Fred on your new crib and fish room looks promising. Take your time my friend...measure twice cut once.
Glad that your Heckel group is doing well.

...Ralph

[jawfish]

Thanks Ralph,

Yhea the new Discus Room will be a lot of fun, I've been thinking about doing this right for the last 5 years. The goal is to make thing easier to do i.e. Water changes, there will be a drain and water supply line going all around the room. Water processing will be done in the furnace room. This room will be dedicated to breeding wilds only. Nandi's Xingu adventure http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?75138-Wild-Xing%FAs&highlight=xingu really inspired me to do this. The Heckels are a big part of the room, but they may share it with another wild, will see.

I'll start a Fishroom tread in the DIY section.

Cheers,

Fred

[Phillydubs]

Soooo cool!!!

I can't wait to watch the build! Good luck!

[jawfish]

Well no news is good news :o

On the Discus Room front, my wife suggested that we make an office with the room that I'm building. I didn't like the fact that it was narrow, but also it made plumbing the wastewater drain and freshwater pipes a pain. The original location for the office will become my Discus Room, its right besides my furnace room so its makes a lot of sense... No point arguing with her :o

I did make my breeding rack Its going to hold two 40 gallons and two 65 gallons aquarium. It will store my aquarium while I continue finishing my basement.
102241

I do have a picture of one heckel;)
102240

I'll try to take more pictures videos this weekend.

Cheers,

Fred

[Phillydubs]

Geez it's about time you update your fans ;)!!! Looking good.

Smart move listening to the wife !!!

That heckle is a stunner!!!

[William1]

I dunno. That heckel pic isn't getting it done over here. Let's see some nice ones and I'll promise to post some all new Uatuma blues. My guys are getting big, and more beautiful by the day. Pity, I stink at taking pics, but I'll try. Enjoy your fish. Cheers, BK

[Altum Nut]

A little set back Fred but it will come together. Love the set-up and nice /sturdy rack build and as always loved those tall 65g tanks... correct me if I'm wrong but they look like quality Miracle's to my eyes.
Heckels even though a pic of only one look great and would imagine hard to focus on with the deep tainted tannin's.

...Ralph

[Phillydubs]

William... Have you had your annual eye exam pal...? Grab your readers and look again...

Have you seen this mans fish... ?

That heckle is stirated throughout with a great body and shape and an awesome bar? What more can you love ?

I'm sure your blues are nice but I'd be hard pressed to say they compare to this mans heckles

[William1]

I didn't mean it wasn't a nice fish, I meant I want to see more nice pics. Always play nicey nice on a public forum. I have trouble getting good pics from my smartphone. I've tried playing with my lighting but it isn't cooperating. Oh well, heres a couple anyway. Cheers, BK102261102262102263

How dare you say my blues don't compare. That wasn't nice.

[jawfish]

Thanks Guys.... as they say Happy Wife= Happy Discus, actually she likes them and wants a 300+ gallons aquarium in the familly room...So I'm not going to complain ;)

The change makes a lot of sense for the house also, so it's not a real setback, plus a get more square footage and a better layout for breeding wilds.

Yhea sorry about that Phil, I've been busy at work, and busy with the house, plus we are expecting this December, so need to finish the babies room :D
No worries, I'll post more pics, videos and update.

Sorry Ralph, they are Deep Blue, but I wished they were Miracles. I like the 24 inch tanks better than the 20's, its only when you go with 2 levels the 24's make thing difficult. I've got 4 more 65's and they will go on a wall, just one level, my plan is to raise two spawns a year so I don't need a factory set-up ;)
Thanks for the stand, I'll post some details in my Discus Room tread in the DIY section.

Yes the dark Tannin and the black background is a big issues for taking pictures. I don't think Black is a good colorchoice for Heckels, they don't look good and their natural color seems darker.

No Worries William1, I understood the message... more pics,

On another note the Whirling is gone... Never really understood whats the real cause. Someone in my on my local forum mention he tough it was the water from the tap. It did happen whit these guys when I stopped using 100% RO water. I'm setting everything to be filtered through a sediment block and a carbon block for my regular water. The RO is back in action and since then I've haven't had any issues.

Cheers,

Fred

[William1]

Just looked at Johnny 's site. He's got large Nhumunda brilliant blue heckels on sale right now for $90 each. The same kind Pat has or had. Large semi royals for the same price. I'm sure they are sweet. Sounds like a great deal. They are probably big boys. He's had them for a while.

[Phillydubs]

Well that is my fault then and I apologize. The way the messages was written came off negative to me and I was trying to advocate for niceness. William your messages tend to be a bit quirky and hard to read at times.

I never said your fish were not nice though. If you go back and re read I said I am are they are nice but can't compare to these heckles. After seeing the pics I stand by my statement but that's just personal preference. Your fish are as expected. Nice.

[Second Hand Pat]

I do have a picture of one heckel;)
102240

I'll try to take more pictures videos this weekend.

Cheers,

Fred

Loving these heckels Fred and they look to be growing nicely. Some nice plans on your fish room and congrats on the upcoming little one :D:D
Pat

[William1]

I would love to try my hand with some heckels, but there is no way I'm having more than one discus fish tank. I love my guys and will keep the status quo. The discus are part of an overall show tank. Being wild and natural is a great part of the overall attraction for me. They don't have to have a certain percentage of stripes on their body to be cool. They were born cool. In the warm water of the Uatuma River.

[Second Hand Pat]

Fred, I know you are a busy man but do you have time for a video?
Pat

[jawfish]

No problem Pat.

I'll make a video tonight... its not I'm too busy but thst 75 front glass is terrible :(
Plus I really don't like tge black background and the blackwater. Its really dark :o

But you're right I'm really overdue for an update on these guys

Fred

[Phillydubs]

Enough w the excuses FRED...

VIDEO VIDEO VIDEO!!!

[Jack L]

enough w the excuses fred...

Video video video!!!

lol

[jawfish]

I'm not making this up....last night we got hit with an ice storm (freezing rain ) and lost power. We are suppose to get the power back later today (fingers crossed) ... temp was down to 78 this morning so it's not the end of the world, but it will get critical later tonight....

Will see what happens next.

Fred

[RogueDiscus]

Good luck!

[jawfish]

Good luck!
Thanks...

I got the power back late afternoon... the water temp went down to 70. Now I need to keep a good eye on them.

I'll try again tomorow night for a video

[jawfish]

Ok here a really crappy video from that horrible tank. No matter what I do the lighting doesn't do anything.

I need to finish that 140 gallon..



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTu10PCgE9A&feature=youtu.be

[Phillydubs]

thanks for the video... How are things going since the power outtage and all the issues?

They appear a bit skiddish, is this due to that fall out?

[Second Hand Pat]

I am guessing that they generally do not have a light on over the tank. No one is looking at the glass Fred, only the fish. They have gotten big.
Pat

[jawfish]

They normally have one led strip, for filming I had to put 2. I let them get acclimated for it for 24 hrs before filming.

So far they do not seamed to have been affected by the power outage that much, but yes they are more skittish than usual. They never really settled in as much in this tank vs the 65 they were in at first. I don't want to move them back to a 65 or two and then move them to the 140 next month. I'm actually surprised how they seamed to gone by, lets remember there was no heat and no filter in that tank for almost 24 hours. Luckily for me it was just above freezing outside, and they are in the basement where the temperature drop was slower than the rest of the house. The tank must have dipped to 70 or maybe even 68 before the heat came back on.

Yes a generator is coming soon, plus a propane fireplace is being installed to heat the basement in these instances.

Cheers,

Fred

[jawfish]

I am guessing that they generally do not have a light on over the tank. No one is looking at the glass Fred, only the fish. They have gotten big.
Pat

Thanks Pat, yhea I'm not bothered by the glass that much, for me the important thing at this stage is for them to grow and be healthy

[woopaul5]

Regardless Fred they look great and keep up the good work. Looks like they doubled the size since you started this project has started. Keep up the good work!