Completely new to Discus

[Goldenmelondiscus]

I have been keeping tropical fish for 25 years. I have kept mainly Angels, tetras, corey cats, loaches and plecos. While I love angels (especially black ones) I am ready for a new challenge, so I am looking to get into Discus. I've seen them in my local fish store and the owners raise them, so I'm pretty confident they know their stuff. I've been lurking here since last night learning what I can about Discus.

I have a 29 gallon aquarium with four hockey stick tetras, two skunk corey, a zebra loach and a clown pleco. Is a 29 gallon big enough for one Discus and probably another four blood fin tetras and maybe a clown loach or two, they are one of my favorite fish?

My plan is to have the water tested at my LFS to make sure the water quality before I buy the fish. I have seen Discus Buffer in the pet stores. Is this something I should buy or should I use something else? What about online buying? Is it worth the risk of getting DOA fish?

Is there a specific strain of Discus that is easier than another?
I don't really have any plants in my tanks, I have a huge castle that was in my 55 gallon aquarium as a hiding place. Do I need plants?

I have a back filter and a under gravel filter. I think I have the filtration covered. From the research I have done I know I need to change 25% of the water once a week for adult discus.

[ericNH]

Discus buffer - stay away form that stuff. anything that modifies the pH is unnecessesary unless you want to breed them. the important thing with pH is stability, not the actual pH value, when it comes to discus.

29g tank for one discus and some dithers - yea, i guess so, it can work. most ppl recommend a 60g or larger with a group of 6 or more, so that aggression is diffused. But John (snookn21) once posted something to this effect - if you keep them healthy in good clean water they wil behave better, and aggression is less of an issue. I am paraphrasing here. But it's something in my limited experience that i've seen in my own tank.

plants - i'd say no to plants when you're starting out. but since you're an experienced aquarium hobbyist maybe you can get away with it. it's not that plants in and of themselves are harmful, it's the fact that they make it far more complicated to clean detritus build-up. if you have plants and manage to keep your substrate and plants clean then plants are fine. but you may be strongly cautioned against them by some others here on the forum, and i mainly agree.

since you've been lurking here you've probalby already read that clean water is paramount to keeping helathy discus. if you are going to try your hand at discus, the single most important piece of advice i can you is this - work out a system that will make water changes easy. i speak for myself here - if it's a pain to change water, you may lose interest.

let's see what some of the discus veterans recommend. they'll know much more than i do. And good luck! keep us posted, i like following the journey that new ppl take when they start out :)

[rickztahone]

First off, welcome to the forum Eric :)

Second thing I want to say is that most LFS across the US do not know "their stuff". Can they keep discus alive long enough for people to buy them? Some can, but they've become sick and skinny in their care most times. You will always have the exception, but the large majority of them do not know what they are doing as far as "keeping" discus, let alone raising them.

Now that I have gone on my mini "rant", I would advise you not to get discus if all you have available is a 29g tank. Many here on the forum will tell you that you want to give a single discus at least 10g of water. So, a group of 6 discus would require a 60g tank. There are also execeptions to this rule as well, but for the most part, you want to follow that rule. I know you may be thinking, well, I have 29g, maybe I can keep 3 discus in there?

The short answer is no, you should not keep 3 discus in a 29g tank. Discus are cichilds, and they are a grouping fish. They like to be in larger numbers, yet they are overly aggressive fish as well. This means, you want to keep them in at least a 55g tank.

As discus owners, we all want to have some nice sized discus, most people, when they go to an LFS see a 3" discus and think it looks "great". Truth be told, a 3" discus shouldn't be more than a few months old, but typically is closer to a year old in an LFS. Because we want larger discus, we feed heavily with high protein diets. This in turn means larger water changes at a much frequent rate, in my case, 60% WC on a daily basis. I assure you, that is a practice that NO LFS across the US is doing. Simply put, it doesn't make sense for an LFS to do this because it is just too expensive.

For this reason, most of us here buy from a sponsor. Sponsors/breeders DO the huge water changes and feed very often. You can go to any of our sponsors pages and see the ongoing amount of praises they get. They sell quality stock at a price that typically matches the prices of LFS for discus that are so inferior to anything our sponsors sell.

As to which strain may be more easy to raise? I have always been partial to red turqs because they seem to be very resiliant, but I would imagine any discus can be so long as you take proper care of it.

The castle isn't needed in the discus tank, in fact, you can go fully BB (bare bottom) and have no plants, substrate or any decoration what-so-ever and the discus will be happy.

I hope this has helped you a little in your quest to raise discus.

Once again, welcome to the forum.

[Quintin]

Some good advice here so far.I would hold off getting discus quite yet.Take the time to read through the begginers stickies.And also take the time to research the sponsors here on simply, you will not be dissapointed.

That being said decide what you want to keep Adult or Juviniles (for begginers i would try go with healthy adults). How Many do you want to keep (most people recomend 5-6 i prefer 6). This will help you decide what tank size you will buy. Also if buying from one breeder/sponsor you could possibly put them all in together at the same time if supplier says its ok as these guys know how the keep their fish healthy and some even parasite free.

Lastly ensure your tank is fully cycled with new fresh media before adding discus.

Good Luck on your discus Journey.Hope its a rewarding one.

[Hue]

Im new as well, I have a 65g that will be set up and cycled in the coming days. Just reading all information on this site has expanded my knowledge of disucs 10 fold. I would say to not use the 29g and definitely not use an underground filter on any aquarium that will hold discus. How bout the 55g you mentioned. That would be a great tank for discuss. Good luck.

[Goldenmelondiscus]

The 55 gallon aquarium I had was destroyed by the defective heater that blew up five years ago this month. It was really rude wake up call at 7 in the morning. Worst of it was that I had all the fish I wanted in it and it was completely full of water. The floor was a swamp. I managed to save most of the fish though. If I get one Discus for my aquarium will it be aggressive, depressed its not in a group? I would love to have a big aquarium, it was better than any HDTV I could buy, but right now its not possible. After the explosion my family said no more big aquariums.

[afriend]

eric,

Welcome to the Simply Discus forum. I think that the best thing you can do is to carefully read rickztahone's post above, then proceed to spend time investigating what discus are all about. This forum is an excellent place to get the information that you are going to need, so invest your time wisely and learn what you need to know about this wonderful fish before proceeding further.

Your 25 years experience with tropical fish will serve you well in your adventure in keeping discus. However, please understand that discus are far different that any of the fish you have listed. Discus are not difficult to keep, however it is extremely important to know how to provide what they need in order to keep them healthy.

Here's what I think is the key to understanding the most important thing you need to know about discus:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?120956-What-Are-Bioload-and-Biomass-and-Why-They-Are-Important

Of course there are other things that are important, but please don't make the mistake of not knowing what quality water is and how important it is for discus. If I had known this several years ago, I would have saved myself a lot of money and effort. So please don't make the same mistakes I did.

Simply Discus is a wonderful form and there is allot of information and good people here that can be of great assistance to you.

Paul

[Jack L]

this is a good board, lots of info

take your time, read as much as you can here in the stickies
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?48-Discus-Basics-for-Beginners

watch Als video

you'll be glad you did.

[MD.David]

I believe you don't understand a very vital key factor about discus, they are schooling fish, they need other discus in the tank to have a healthy social environment, without this social environment they will become emotionally stressed and having undesirable behaviour.
Please watch this very extensive presentation from none other Al the owner of this awesome discus resource (simplydiscus).

http://youtu.be/VXe3VKh7qF8

After you watch this video you can decide whether a discus keepers life is for you.




I have been keeping tropical fish for 25 years. I have kept mainly Angels, tetras, corey cats, loaches and plecos. While I love angels (especially black ones) I am ready for a new challenge, so I am looking to get into Discus. I've seen them in my local fish store and the owners raise them, so I'm pretty confident they know their stuff. I've been lurking here since last night learning what I can about Discus.

I have a 29 gallon aquarium with four hockey stick tetras, two skunk corey, a zebra loach and a clown pleco. Is a 29 gallon big enough for one Discus and probably another four blood fin tetras and maybe a clown loach or two, they are one of my favorite fish?

My plan is to have the water tested at my LFS to make sure the water quality before I buy the fish. I have seen Discus Buffer in the pet stores. Is this something I should buy or should I use something else? What about online buying? Is it worth the risk of getting DOA fish?

Is there a specific strain of Discus that is easier than another?
I don't really have any plants in my tanks, I have a huge castle that was in my 55 gallon aquarium as a hiding place. Do I need plants?

I have a back filter and a under gravel filter. I think I have the filtration covered. From the research I have done I know I need to change 25% of the water once a week for adult discus.

[Las Vegas]

Hi Eric, besides tips and info here, watch youtube. I once started with the 29 gal tank. Bought the Discus at the local fish store. It was fine. I learned that I MUST make those every other day water changes. I MUST feed them quality protien type foods. I MUST keep the water temperature at least 82 deg. I MUST keep the tank clean of setteling substrate(Alge OK). CLEAN, CLEAN and also CLEAN water with PH at 6.5 to no higher than 7.0. Tap water (FOR MY EXPERIENCE) has never worked for me, but some of these guys know how to use it. I have only had good experiences with only R/O Water. So if you want to "TRY" Discus, buy from fish store. Once you learn and are ready to care for High Quality Expensive Discus then buy from reputable Discus farm. Goodluck.

[Quintin]

With all due respect Las Vegas i disagree that he should start with sickly malnourished pet shop discus.it wont end well and op will be discouraged.I should have started with good discus 3 years ago and i would have had much better results.
As far as ro water is concerned its not essential.Neither is low ph as long as its stable.Just my 2c.

And eric explain to your family that heaters can blow up in any size aquarium lol.Get a good heater like jager its the most important piece of hardware in a discus tank in my oppinion

[John_Nicholson]

If you buy sick crappy fish from a local fish store ( which is what most carry although there are some exceptions ) you are making your life much harder. The water that you change will cost the same, the cost of heating the water is the same, the cost of the food is the same, the cost of the tank is the same.....what I am saying is the cost of the fish is but one small component when you look at the total cost over the life of the fish. Buy quality fish and you will be miles ahead. When done right it is often cheaper because you do not have to treat the fish for the crap that LFS fish often bring with them.

-john

[Goldenmelondiscus]

I have been going to the LFS for about for almost as long as I have been keeping fish. I trust the employees, they are extremely knowledgeable about fish. I went to another LFS in town and I saw they had Discus and when I asked about them the workers there said Discus were aggressive and would eat other fish and be mean. I did my research and everything they said was not true. I know that they had the crappy Discus, because they simply didn't know anything about them.

I'm still learning and won't buy anything until the end of the month when I'm fully informed and feel like I can take on the challenge of Discus. I'm getting my toes wet before I dive into the deep end.

[ericNH]

The 55 gallon aquarium I had was destroyed by the defective heater that blew up five years ago this month. ... The floor was a swamp. ...After the explosion my family said no more big aquariums.

Okay, I can't help myself. I have to ask what do you mean by "explosion" and "blew up" and "floor was a swamp?" Could you give me a more detailed account of this? I'm picturing an exploding tank with glass shards and electrocuted fish all over the walls, the floor, etc.

[Tshethar]

Hi Eric

Just one more voice on here to say welcome and best of luck as you get yourself prepped for a possible go with discus. Just want to encourage you to take your time and get yourself well set up and as educated as possible before you take the plunge and actually get fish. Personally, I worked at an LFS 25 years ago, and another high end one part-time while in grad school 20 years ago with a really knowledgeable owner, and I have still been learning a ton since I joined here last June. I'd played with reef tanks, lots of other cichlids, tropicals, a pond, etc., but frankly I was pretty shocked when I realized how people were setting up and maintaining discus tanks. Despite how long anyone has been in the aquarium hobby or how generally knowledgeable they are, unless they have been growing out or breeding discus successfully, I would be hesitant to trust their advice over what you will hear here. The experienced people who respond to questions regularly on the forum have been doing both of these things for many years. On discus, I trust them more than any of the LFS owners I have known or worked for.

While I honestly wanted to have fish in my house before now, I realized I really needed the time to figure out all the details so I could have success and not end up in the Emergency Room section. Figuring out my tap water conditions, how to do regular big water changes quickly and easily, figuring out the aesthetics of a bare-bottom tank setup, quarantine procedure, etc. have taken me some time but have also turned out to be fun in the end. Besides the beginner section and Al's video linked above it has been great to check out other people's tank threads and to use the search function to explore different topics. At this point I'm finally psyched to see if I can grow out a group of young fish.

One other bonus to the time spent is that it's given me a chance to win over my wife! If I were you, I would broach the topic of discus in the house now, start following the forum, and bide your time until the family lets you get a 75 gallon tank. :)

[Tshethar]

Okay, I can't help myself. I have to ask what do you mean by "explosion" and "blew up" and "floor was a swamp?" Could you give me a more detailed account of this? I'm picturing an exploding tank with glass shards and electrocuted fish all over the walls, the floor, etc.

Betting he had one of the marineland stealth heaters... they were known for this problem a few years ago. Some kind of design flaw really did cause them to fail spectacularly, sometimes shattering glass.

Speaking of which, one thing I decided on after reading here was to get a temperature controller to manage my heater(s). Heaters are more important in discus setups than most and they are one of the least reliable pieces of equipment in the hobby....

[pitdogg2]

Betting he had one of the marineland stealth heaters...

and yet they have re-introduced them ...this time made in Italy instead of China

[MattArmstrong]

What about online buying? Is it worth the risk of getting DOA fish?

The risk of getting a DOA fish is small. If you purchase discus from a sponsor here, they know what they're doing, and they have good customer service and will "make it right." a DOA happens rarely enough that this level of customer service is possible without being a financial burden for the sellers. The primary risk is if you buy fish by mail from an unknown seller -- they may not know what they're doing, or they may ship you bad fish. The sponsored sellers here are vetted and have good reputations.

Note that fish stores get their fish "online" -- most all tropical fish you purchase make one or more trips through the airport during their lives. Shipping fish by mail is not unusual.

True fact: many of my LFS get their Discus from Hans, indirectly, through a wholesaler. All of Hans' fish are in great shape when he ships them. They tend to not look good at the LFS. They first go to a wholesaler (which in my case is The Cichlid Exchange / The Wet Spot). Now, the Wet Spot has a good reputation, and probably treats the Discus well. If I lived in Portland, I might buy my Discus from The Wet Spot, knowing they were from Hans and treated well after he shipped them. But I don't live in Portland. At some point, they're shipped to the LFS, which throws them in with other random fish (that harass and stress them -- I saw one being harassed by a Jack Dempsey!), exposes them to whatever other pathogens are present in the LFS's system (they don't tend to truly isolate the discus the other fish in the store -- fish nets and siphons will be used across multiple tanks, etc.). Ultimately, the fish don't look so great when I walk in and look at them.

I compare this with the pictures of fish people post on this forum, received directly from Hans, and the difference is night and day. The same would go for any other sponsor selling fish on this forum.

[SNap0283]

The biggest misconception I see from new discus keepers is their understanding of pathogens. They immediately assume since the fish at the LFS are healthy and have lived in their tanks for a while that they are clean. The fact is a lot of pathogens are harmless to other fish yet will be deadly to discus, so while the tetras and angels look great if you mix them with discus its going to end poorly. Think of it like the first European contact to Native Americans. I think all us veterans to discus throw out the warning of pathogens to people new to the hobby and assume they understand what we mean but in fact they don't.

[Goldenmelondiscus]

Betting he had one of the marineland stealth heaters... they were known for this problem a few years ago. Some kind of design flaw really did cause them to fail spectacularly, sometimes shattering glass.

Speaking of which, one thing I decided on after reading here was to get a temperature controller to manage my heater(s). Heaters are more important in discus setups than most and they are one of the least reliable pieces of equipment in the hobby....
It was 7 in the morning I was sound asleep when my Mom came to the bottom of the stairs and said, "Eric come quick." My first thought was my dad had passed. He suffered a stroke seven and half years ago and due to his health reasons I live with my parents.
I came running down the stairs into the family/parents' bedroom and the floor was covered in water with fish flopping around on the carpet. Fortunately the dog and cat had a distaste for wet feet or they might have been eating sushi for breakfast. My mom and I picked up as many fish as we could and put them in a bucket to put them upstairs in my 29 gallon aquarium. I wasn't around when the heater exploded, but from what my mom said it was an explosion. The heater in question was a Marineland heater. They fought our insurance company for a year DENYING it was their fault.

There was an earlier incident when I was at college where my Mom accidentally pulled the air hose from the air pump and the water siphoned onto the carpet and ruined the carpet. I have breached the topic of a new aquarium and Mom says she misses have the aquarium downstairs, but it's too big of a risk to get another big one. Do I have plans to get another big aquarium? Yes! When I get my own house...if I could get my girlfriend into fish I'd be happy.

[rickztahone]

Hi Eric

Just one more voice on here to say welcome and best of luck as you get yourself prepped for a possible go with discus. Just want to encourage you to take your time and get yourself well set up and as educated as possible before you take the plunge and actually get fish. Personally, I worked at an LFS 25 years ago, and another high end one part-time while in grad school 20 years ago with a really knowledgeable owner, and I have still been learning a ton since I joined here last June. I'd played with reef tanks, lots of other cichlids, tropicals, a pond, etc., but frankly I was pretty shocked when I realized how people were setting up and maintaining discus tanks. Despite how long anyone has been in the aquarium hobby or how generally knowledgeable they are, unless they have been growing out or breeding discus successfully, I would be hesitant to trust their advice over what you will hear here. The experienced people who respond to questions regularly on the forum have been doing both of these things for many years. On discus, I trust them more than any of the LFS owners I have known or worked for.

While I honestly wanted to have fish in my house before now, I realized I really needed the time to figure out all the details so I could have success and not end up in the Emergency Room section. Figuring out my tap water conditions, how to do regular big water changes quickly and easily, figuring out the aesthetics of a bare-bottom tank setup, quarantine procedure, etc. have taken me some time but have also turned out to be fun in the end. Besides the beginner section and Al's video linked above it has been great to check out other people's tank threads and to use the search function to explore different topics. At this point I'm finally psyched to see if I can grow out a group of young fish.

One other bonus to the time spent is that it's given me a chance to win over my wife! If I were you, I would broach the topic of discus in the house now, start following the forum, and bide your time until the family lets you get a 75 gallon tank. :)

Thank you for sharing that with us Bill :)

[Tshethar]

My pleasure, Ricardo! I'm especially glad if it encourages some of you moderators on here who are do a lot of work to try to help and guide people. You and Pat and Toni were right there to start answering long-winded questions from me when I turned up out of nowhere over the summer, and I have enjoyed learning by seeing how all of you respond to other people and their situations since.

OP, check out rickztahone's recent grow-out thread if you want to get a good look at how experienced folks are raising nice discus! And also, I can sympathize with the dynamics you're talking about. My early sump experiments ended up flooding my parents' retirement house before I knew about siphon breaks... sigh. And I applaud you for taking care of aging parents. Just been checking on my Mom over the holidays, which is one reason I didn't get young fish in the fall. Hope timing and circumstances work out for you to give them a go when you're ready.

[DanLFC97]

Hi Guys,

I am thinking of getting discus and I was reading that discus need an external canister. Currently I have a 55 gallon tank and I have an internal filter Aqua Nova NBF-1200. I cant get an external filter, so in order to keep the water clean and keep discus can I add a sponge filter, thus having a combination of an Internal filter and a sponge filter?

Thanks

[John_Nicholson]

You do not need an external canister to have discus. Not sure where you read that but you need to quit going there........I have used nothing but sponge filters on discus tanks for roughly 20 years. What discus need are water changes.

-john

[rickztahone]

You do not need an external canister to have discus. Not sure where you read that but you need to quit going there........I have used nothing but sponge filters on discus tanks for roughly 20 years. What discus need are water changes.

-john

+1. You can have discus with nothing but sponge filters and daily water changes and you are good as gold. This is typically how large breeders keep their discus. Imagine if they had to buy a canister filter for every tank with discus in their facility?

[Kyla]

+1. You can have discus with nothing but sponge filters and daily water changes and you are good as gold. This is typically how large breeders keep their discus. Imagine if they had to buy a canister filter for every tank with discus in their facility?

i have canister filters, but i often imagine how much easier it would be to clean sponge filters instead of opening up all the canisters...

[briztoon]

It was 7 in the morning I was sound asleep when my Mom came to the bottom of the stairs and said, "Eric come quick." My first thought was my dad had passed. He suffered a stroke seven and half years ago and due to his health reasons I live with my parents.
I came running down the stairs into the family/parents' bedroom and the floor was covered in water with fish flopping around on the carpet. Fortunately the dog and cat had a distaste for wet feet or they might have been eating sushi for breakfast. My mom and I picked up as many fish as we could and put them in a bucket to put them upstairs in my 29 gallon aquarium. I wasn't around when the heater exploded, but from what my mom said it was an explosion. The heater in question was a Marineland heater. They fought our insurance company for a year DENYING it was their fault.

There was an earlier incident when I was at college where my Mom accidentally pulled the air hose from the air pump and the water siphoned onto the carpet and ruined the carpet. I have breached the topic of a new aquarium and Mom says she misses have the aquarium downstairs, but it's too big of a risk to get another big one. Do I have plans to get another big aquarium? Yes! When I get my own house...if I could get my girlfriend into fish I'd be happy.

If you're not allowed a larger tank, I believe you should hold off buying any discus until you are allowed to buy a larger, 4 foot plus tank.

[briztoon]

Hi Guys,

I am thinking of getting discus and I was reading that discus need an external canister. Currently I have a 55 gallon tank and I have an internal filter Aqua Nova NBF-1200. I cant get an external filter, so in order to keep the water clean and keep discus can I add a sponge filter, thus having a combination of an Internal filter and a sponge filter?

Thanks

It doesn't matter what form of filtration you use; sponge filter, internal filter, canister filter or sump, the form of filtration doesn't negate the need to do regular water changes with discus. With discus, you will need to clean out the canister filter very, very regularly, while still performing the type of water changes you will read about here.

[Kyla]

It doesn't matter what form of filtration you use; sponge filter, internal filter, canister filter or sump, the form of filtration doesn't negate the need to do regular water changes with discus. With discus, you will need to clean out the canister filter very, very regularly, while still performing the type of water changes you will read about here.

canister filters are a bit sinister in the way they work...

some good points:
- they can hold all sorts of media to efficiently remove debris from the tank, so the water is nice and clear and they provide good biological filtration as well (and chemical filtration too if u want it)
- they are nice and quiet (which is why i like them - mine are almost silent)
- they can be hidden behind the tank so they dont take up a lot of room inside the aquarium (another reason i like them)

however the big drawbacks are:
- although they keep the water looking clear, they only "hide" the debris and fish waste and uneaten food
- all the gunk they strain from the water column remains a part of the system and affects water quality because the water is always running over it inside the canister
- out-of-sight out-of-mind can be misleading and make the tank appear cleaner than it really is
- they have to be cleaned often and they are a pain to clean. u have to open them up and take out all the chambers and rinse each one and wipe down the insides and take out the impeller and clean the shaft and the housing and lubricate the seals and put them back together and prime them. it is a huge pain. i have to clean mine today and im not looking forward to it

i find myself looking a pics of sponge filters with envy lol

[walt]

I have two canister filters on my 120 gallon tank alternate cleaning monthly seems too be working

[Yoda466]

canister filters are a bit sinister in the way they work...

some good points:
- they can hold all sorts of media to efficiently remove debris from the tank, so the water is nice and clear and they provide good biological filtration as well (and chemical filtration too if u want it)
- they are nice and quiet (which is why i like them - mine are almost silent)
- they can be hidden behind the tank so they dont take up a lot of room inside the aquarium (another reason i like them)

however the big drawbacks are:
- although they keep the water looking clear, they only "hide" the debris and fish waste and uneaten food
- all the gunk they strain from the water column remains a part of the system and affects water quality because the water is always running over it inside the canister
- out-of-sight out-of-mind can be misleading and make the tank appear cleaner than it really is
- they have to be cleaned often and they are a pain to clean. u have to open them up and take out all the chambers and rinse each one and wipe down the insides and take out the impeller and clean the shaft and the housing and lubricate the seals and put them back together and prime them. it is a huge pain. i have to clean mine today and im not looking forward to it

i find myself looking a pics of sponge filters with envy lol

I totally agree. I have never had a canister filter, but years ago I used to really really want one. So many people went on and on about how they are the "best" filter. I also like technology and machinery and these just seemed so high tech and cool. Well, I read more and I learned more, particularly about discus experts using nothing but cheap, low tech, old school sponge filters. I never went that route because I don't personally like the look of them in the tank. But I realized that filter requirements are actually very basic. My preference is for the old standard HOB filter. I prefer Aquaclear. I load up the inside with bio media (it really doesn't much matter what kind) and I put a sponge prefilter on the inlet. The prefilter is my mechanical filtration and I swap it out frequently to get the funk out of the tank. It takes less than five minutes to swap the sponge and rinse out the dirty one. Cleaning the rest of the filter is required - well just about never. Started at once a month, went to every other month, now I'm not sure when I last did it. There's nothing in there to clean out. The sponge collects all the funk and the filter is always clean inside. It's just bio media that has been seeing filter water. I really like this setup.

[briztoon]

canister filters are a bit sinister in the way they work...

some good points:
- they can hold all sorts of media to efficiently remove debris from the tank, so the water is nice and clear and they provide good biological filtration as well (and chemical filtration too if u want it)
- they are nice and quiet (which is why i like them - mine are almost silent)
- they can be hidden behind the tank so they dont take up a lot of room inside the aquarium (another reason i like them)

however the big drawbacks are:
- although they keep the water looking clear, they only "hide" the debris and fish waste and uneaten food
- all the gunk they strain from the water column remains a part of the system and affects water quality because the water is always running over it inside the canister
- out-of-sight out-of-mind can be misleading and make the tank appear cleaner than it really is
- they have to be cleaned often and they are a pain to clean. u have to open them up and take out all the chambers and rinse each one and wipe down the insides and take out the impeller and clean the shaft and the housing and lubricate the seals and put them back together and prime them. it is a huge pain. i have to clean mine today and im not looking forward to it

i find myself looking a pics of sponge filters with envy lol

Great post. Sums up pretty much what I was thinking when I made my previous post.

[briztoon]

If I every get to own the set up I want, I will be going very basic sumps with socks that I can replace daily, and bagged media easy to rinse out.

[aqua-nut]

I have breached the topic of a new aquarium and Mom says she misses have the aquarium downstairs, but it's too big of a risk to get another big one.

You might start the negotiations saying you want a big tank. Start with 300G! After some negotiations be willing to 'settle' for a tiny 75G.

It's important in the negotiations to:
Not give in to easily when the parents suggest a smaller tank.
NEVER EVER smile when you 'give in' to the tiny 75G.

Remember you are their :angel: and want to give you everything!

:D

[Goldenmelondiscus]

You might start the negotiations saying you want a big tank. Start with 300G! After some negotiations be willing to 'settle' for a tiny 75G.

It's important in the negotiations to:
Not give in to easily when the parents suggest a smaller tank.
NEVER EVER smile when you 'give in' to the tiny 75G.

Remember you are their :angel: and want to give you everything!

:D

LOL ROFL I know it's a hopeless argument. I will bide my time and when I do move out I will have my big tank.

[MD.David]

My entire fish room is on sponge filters.
6x20g
2x50g
1x65 breeder
1x40 breeder
50-90% water changes daily.
Sometimes I cheat, and my wife wants to go out after I'm done work and I can't change the water that night. So sometimes they have to deal with it, but that happens 2-3 times a month (sometimes less) and never back to back and the next day WC is 90%.
Like John said, you need water changes and a good sponge filter and your good to go.
A 55g tank isn't that much bigger then a 30g, its only 18inches longer.
I don't really see the issue here why you can't get a larger tank.
Willingness to work for it is the key.

Best of luck mate!

[Las Vegas]

Live Fish Stores don't sell ONLY sick fish. Really? I have two discus that I purchased from LFS and they're not "malnourished or sickly" It's not fair to label ALL LFS that way because you might have purchased a bad fish. If they look bad don't buy them, however if they look fine, you like the color and the price isn't bad, then buy the fish. That's just a ridiculous uneducated comment to make that I've read over and over again. I've read also you must quarantine your newly purchased discus because you don't want to infect the rest of your tank with diseases? But if you ordered the fish from a reputable supplier, then why would you have to quarantine? Are you saying that all "reputable suppliers" sell only sick or diseased discus? Of course not, neither do LFS. Mostly LFS buy their discus from a local breeder. Good LFS also will give you a warranty on the purchase of their fish. Just ask, you'll see. The only thing you can't expect from buying Discus fish from a LFS is the honestly known breed. Your just buying a pretty fish. Now, I mentioned to Eric that if he wants to buy from the LFS "to learn how to take care of Discus", then do it and learn. If you can take care of a "LFS" Discus fish and raise it to a healthy adult fish, then you decide your ready to try a specific Discus breed, and spend a lot of time and money prepping and purchasing the better breed of Discus, then go for it! Your ready. Because if your not ready, they will become sick and or die. You'll see. Me personally, I would rather spend a little money at the LFS and know that I'm ready to take care of Discus than spend a lot of money for the better breed and not be ready. The two pigeon blood discus that I bought from the LFS were the size of a Silver dollar for $24.99 each. I've had them for over half a year now, neither one is or has been unhealthy or sick, they are about twice the size now and are happy fish. You buy two of the cheapest discus from a reputable breeder, they will cost at least $40 each plus shipping. That will cost over $120 for two fish. If you don't take care of those discus, they will still get sick and or die. That's why you might hear a lot of comments stating, "Discus fish are very hard to take care of" You really have to learn how to take care of these type of fish. So Eric, consider this, would you rather learn by using your 29 gal tank and buying (healthy)fish from the LFS or the expensive fish? Each come with a warranty of maybe 30 days and no guarantee of ever not becoming sick or unhealthy or death. That part depends on you.

[John_Nicholson]

The above statement is full of BS. While some LFS do a good job the vast majority do not. Most buy their discus for large wholesalers because their prices are best. Even when you get fish from a good source you still need to be careful mixing them. This has been discussed and proven to be the best advice on this forum for many years. Also getting the best discus that you can is always good advise.

-john

[Second Hand Pat]

Live Fish Stores don't sell ONLY sick fish. Really? I have two discus that I purchased from LFS and they're not "malnourished or sickly" It's not fair to label ALL LFS that way because you might have purchased a bad fish. If they look bad don't buy them, however if they look fine, you like the color and the price isn't bad, then buy the fish. That's just a ridiculous uneducated comment to make that I've read over and over again. I've read also you must quarantine your newly purchased discus because you don't want to infect the rest of your tank with diseases? But if you ordered the fish from a reputable supplier, then why would you have to quarantine? Are you saying that all "reputable suppliers" sell only sick or diseased discus? Of course not, neither do LFS. Mostly LFS buy their discus from a local breeder. Good LFS also will give you a warranty on the purchase of their fish. Just ask, you'll see. The only thing you can't expect from buying Discus fish from a LFS is the honestly known breed. Your just buying a pretty fish. Now, I mentioned to Eric that if he wants to buy from the LFS "to learn how to take care of Discus", then do it and learn. If you can take care of a "LFS" Discus fish and raise it to a healthy adult fish, then you decide your ready to try a specific Discus breed, and spend a lot of time and money prepping and purchasing the better breed of Discus, then go for it! Your ready. Because if your not ready, they will become sick and or die. You'll see. Me personally, I would rather spend a little money at the LFS and know that I'm ready to take care of Discus than spend a lot of money for the better breed and not be ready. The two pigeon blood discus that I bought from the LFS were the size of a Silver dollar for $24.99 each. I've had them for over half a year now, neither one is or has been unhealthy or sick, they are about twice the size now and are happy fish. You buy two of the cheapest discus from a reputable breeder, they will cost at least $40 each plus shipping. That will cost over $120 for two fish. If you don't take care of those discus, they will still get sick and or die. That's why you might hear a lot of comments stating, "Discus fish are very hard to take care of" You really have to learn how to take care of these type of fish. So Eric, consider this, would you rather learn by using your 29 gal tank and buying (healthy)fish from the LFS or the expensive fish? Each come with a warranty of maybe 30 days and no guarantee of ever not becoming sick or unhealthy or death. That part depends on you.

Hi Mark, I am going respectfully disagree with you here.

First, we do not recommend members buy their discus from a LFS; generally the discus are not well cared for and exposed to many pathogens due to the central systems many LFS use to house their fish. The discus are generally not well grown, quality fish and many have been given hormones which can be harmful to internal organs.

Second, you quarantine every fish in a isolated QT for a minimum of six weeks independent of the source.

Third; you bought two fish at silver dollar size. That should be about two inches or so. So they have doubled their size so about fourth inches at nine months (or older). These fish should be 5.5 inches or better. Hopefully you will get some more growth from them. An adult discus should be 5.5 or better at a year. You get the best growth the first six months of its life.

So our general recommendation for newbies is start with healthy, quality discus. Start with a group of six in a BB tank with large daily WCs and good quality food. Best to age water if possible. Discus are not hard if a few basic rules are observed and adhered too...and always, always QT new fish.

A good starting place to learn is the stickies in the beginners part of the forum and watch Al's video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXe3VKh7qF8

[DISCUS STU]

Hey Eric, welcome and hope it works out for you.

IME throw away the gravel and the under gravel filters. The Under gravel filter doesn't really work for Discus, or really for anything for that matter. The UG filters require very course substrate for good flow through and very strong power heads to be effective. Even so they need to be regularly cleaned. UG filters are dangerous because they can provide the illusion of having adequate filtration when you're really just concentrating harmful bacteria in you tank. IME they're worthless. Most people will advocate keeping BB tanks (bare bottom) or with some experience sand, which is very fine and doesn't really permit much to permeate the substrate.

Discus Buffer, NG. As above. Most of this is unnecessary and things life Discus Essentials to mineralize the water remind of Snake Oil, expensive and of little value.

In terms of hardier strains; Pigeon Bloods, Red or Blue Turquoise, common Brown Discus (if you can find them, but not very colorful,).

In regard to best practices; always quarantine new arrivals (see posts on this site re that), plenty of water changes, good high protein food, etc.

[Goldenmelondiscus]

Live Fish Stores don't sell ONLY sick fish. Really? I have two discus that I purchased from LFS and they're not "malnourished or sickly" It's not fair to label ALL LFS that way because you might have purchased a bad fish. If they look bad don't buy them, however if they look fine, you like the color and the price isn't bad, then buy the fish. That's just a ridiculous uneducated comment to make that I've read over and over again. I've read also you must quarantine your newly purchased discus because you don't want to infect the rest of your tank with diseases? But if you ordered the fish from a reputable supplier, then why would you have to quarantine? Are you saying that all "reputable suppliers" sell only sick or diseased discus? Of course not, neither do LFS. Mostly LFS buy their discus from a local breeder. Good LFS also will give you a warranty on the purchase of their fish. Just ask, you'll see. The only thing you can't expect from buying Discus fish from a LFS is the honestly known breed. Your just buying a pretty fish. Now, I mentioned to Eric that if he wants to buy from the LFS "to learn how to take care of Discus", then do it and learn. If you can take care of a "LFS" Discus fish and raise it to a healthy adult fish, then you decide your ready to try a specific Discus breed, and spend a lot of time and money prepping and purchasing the better breed of Discus, then go for it! Your ready. Because if your not ready, they will become sick and or die. You'll see. Me personally, I would rather spend a little money at the LFS and know that I'm ready to take care of Discus than spend a lot of money for the better breed and not be ready. The two pigeon blood discus that I bought from the LFS were the size of a Silver dollar for $24.99 each. I've had them for over half a year now, neither one is or has been unhealthy or sick, they are about twice the size now and are happy fish. You buy two of the cheapest discus from a reputable breeder, they will cost at least $40 each plus shipping. That will cost over $120 for two fish. If you don't take care of those discus, they will still get sick and or die. That's why you might hear a lot of comments stating, "Discus fish are very hard to take care of" You really have to learn how to take care of these type of fish. So Eric, consider this, would you rather learn by using your 29 gal tank and buying (healthy)fish from the LFS or the expensive fish? Each come with a warranty of maybe 30 days and no guarantee of ever not becoming sick or unhealthy or death. That part depends on you.

I agree with you, Mark. I would rather learn on a $25 healthy fish than a $120 unknown health fish. To me ordering fish online is a risky proposition, because I can't see the fish in person. I can't ask the person helping me to feed the fish to make sure that the fish eats or isn't sick.

After doing a ton of research on Discus I am confident that I can take care of them. I live in a town where there is a lot of farm run off and factories pump a lot of crap into the lake and at times the water isn't all that great, but I can use Reverse Osmosis water. Unfortunately, I learned the hard way this week. I did a water change with tap water and didn't know the Ammonia was high in the water. I've lost most of my neon tetras.

My plan is to test the tap for ammonia before I do water changes and if the water is bad us RO water. I've been keeping fish for 25 years and keeping Discus doesn't scare me.