Questions about getting started

[delta5]

If I get into Discus, I want to go all the way. Breeding, raising the fry, and selling. Most experience I have is breeding yellow lab cichlids. Including raising the fry in a grow out tank.

Here are the tank setups I'd like to use and already have the equipment.

Tank 1: 40g breeder with an emperor 400, 200w heater.
Tank 2: 90G with Marineland 360, Hydor 300W inline heater, Aqueon 500 circ pump.
I have flourite substrate, black sand, driftwood, and plants I could add. But i'm assuming bare bottom is best for breeding?


Q1: Is it possible to keep a breeding pair in a 40g breeder? (If not) Can they be kept in a 90g alone or do they still need more discus with them?

Q2: My tap water is off the charts hard and leaves a white ring on the tank in a matter of days. Can I still use tap alongside ro water, or would I be better off just using 100% ro water with seachem products? (I have a RO unit)

Q3: Assuming 1 breeding pair, how many water changes a week for a 40g breeder or 90g?

Q4: using a 90g or 40g breeder as the grow out tank, how many fry could each raise until they're 2"?

[John_Nicholson]

The 40 is fine for the breeders. You will only need to do 7 water changes a week on it....

The 90 is ok for a grow out tank. it will need at least 7 WC's a week depending on the number of fry. You need to get at least 3 more grow out tanks is you hope to be successful. All your tanks should be bare bottom.

Having said that lets look at your discus journey as a road trip. Since you have no real experience in this area it wil be a long trip. Lets say you are currently in Dallas, TX. Getting to the point that you are raising fry would be like taking a road trip to Miami, FL................on a bike..............

If you want to get their you have lots of reading to do. I would also suggest that you come to the huge NADA show in Chicago in July. You will learn tons of stuff there.

-john

[SNap0283]

Discus is a whole other ball game from African cichlids. That being said discus are not hard they are just particular. Don't try to reinvent the wheel... its all been done before. Stick to what works, read the forums and learn.

As John said if you want to raise any sort of quality discus that someone on these forums would want to purchase you have to change 100% of the water daily. Sometimes 2x a day in their first few months.

If your water is hard but doesn't have anything exotic in it then RO and mix in some tap to get the TDS up in breeding tanks. The eggs need soft water to hatch other than that soft water is a myth for domestic discus. Tap water is probably fine for raising fry.

40 Is fine for breeding, most use 20H or 29 but extra room usually wont be an issue. With young pairs fry may get lost but they will figure it out. 90 is fine for a grow out, how many you can fit in there comes down to water quality. If you want to change the water a few times a day you could raise a few hundred to 2" in a 90.

The one thing you didn't mention is a place to age your water before water changes. This is more or less required if you will be raising fry, trying to match temp straight from the tap and the inevitable pH swing is too much for fry.

Don't let John or anyone scare you away it is possible to jump right into discus and be successful but it takes a lot of research and commitment. You will screw things up, you will kill fish, you will learn. Start reading the forums you have plenty to catch up on.

[delta5]

Discus is a whole other ball game from African cichlids. That being said discus are not hard they are just particular. Don't try to reinvent the wheel... its all been done before. Stick to what works, read the forums and learn.

As John said if you want to raise any sort of quality discus that someone on these forums would want to purchase you have to change 100% of the water daily. Sometimes 2x a day in their first few months.

If your water is hard but doesn't have anything exotic in it then RO and mix in some tap to get the TDS up in breeding tanks. The eggs need soft water to hatch other than that soft water is a myth for domestic discus. Tap water is probably fine for raising fry.

40 Is fine for breeding, most use 20H or 29 but extra room usually wont be an issue. With young pairs fry may get lost but they will figure it out. 90 is fine for a grow out, how many you can fit in there comes down to water quality. If you want to change the water a few times a day you could raise a few hundred to 2" in a 90.

The one thing you didn't mention is a place to age your water before water changes. This is more or less required if you will be raising fry, trying to match temp straight from the tap and the inevitable pH swing is too much for fry.

Don't let John or anyone scare you away it is possible to jump right into discus and be successful but it takes a lot of research and commitment. You will screw things up, you will kill fish, you will learn. Start reading the forums you have plenty to catch up on.

Daily water changes for one pair in a 40g breeder?

[SNap0283]

Only if you want them healthy.

[John_Nicholson]

Daily water changes for one pair in a 40g breeder?

A lot of people don't.....we call them unsuccessful......

-john

[delta5]

Okay, so could I use my Marineland 360 on the 40g breeder for the breeding pair?

[John_Nicholson]

Simple sponge filters work best.

-john

[delta5]

Simple sponge filters work best.

-john

If I were to buy a pair of Discus today i'd have to use my only cycled filter, which is the C-360. Will that be too much current for breeding in a 40g breeder?

[John_Nicholson]

It is not how the current affects the pair....it is how it affects the fry. With changing water everyday having the sponges cycled is not that big of a deal.

-john

[delta5]

Thank you very much for all your help.

[rickztahone]

Sponge filter will be best, but if you have media from your old filter and don't want to use your HOB or canister, you can place the media in 2L bottles of soda and have it tumble with an air line.

[delta5]

Sponge filter will be best, but if you have media from your old filter and don't want to use your HOB or canister, you can place the media in 2L bottles of soda and have it tumble with an air line.

I'd like to use my C-360 and Emperor 400, but idk if they'd be safe since they were used to take care of Bolivian rams and a Green Terror.

[rickztahone]

You can always nuke the filters by running bleach through them. Obviously the media would have to be either tossed or saved if it didn't break down.

[delta5]

You can always nuke the filters by running bleach through them. Obviously the media would have to be either tossed or saved if it didn't break down.

So would I then just do a fishless cycle?

[delta5]

90g 3"+ breeding pair or 5 discus. Would a 20g a day water change be good? Trying to find a way to make it so the aged water can stay in a tank under my 90g.

[rickztahone]

So would I then just do a fishless cycle?

You absolutely could, yes.

[rickztahone]

90g 3"+ breeding pair or 5 discus. Would a 20g a day water change be good? Trying to find a way to make it so the aged water can stay in a tank under my 90g.

In my opinion that isn't large enough. I would suggest at least 40g or 50g if you can wing it. That is the least I would do

[Akili]

20 gal out of 90 gal is 22.22 % I have a 90 gal in my family room where there in no room to age water.Everyday at dinner time I place a 44 gal next to the tank and fill up the barrel with slightly warm water about 88 deg.Add some prime.There is submersible pump hooked to 10 foot hose.Run the pump recirculating the water in the barrel.After dinner siphon the fish waste and any uneaten food and drain 30 to 40 gallons of water.By this time the temperature in the barrel has dropped to 82/84 deg.Pump the water in and when done roll away the barrel to the garage.On the weekend I have two barrels side by side as I do 100 % water change.

[rickztahone]

20 gal out of 90 gal is 22.22 % I have a 90 gal in my family room where there in no room to age water.Everyday at dinner time I place a 44 gal next to the tank and fill up the barrel with slightly warm water about 88 deg.Add some prime.There is submersible pump hooked to 10 foot hose.Run the pump recirculating the water in the barrel.After dinner siphon the fish waste and any uneaten food and drain 30 to 40 gallons of water.By this time the temperature in the barrel has dropped to 82/84 deg.Pump the water in and when done roll away the barrel to the garage.On the weekend I have two barrels side by side as I do 100 % water change.
Very nice method

[delta5]

20 gal out of 90 gal is 22.22 % I have a 90 gal in my family room where there in no room to age water.Everyday at dinner time I place a 44 gal next to the tank and fill up the barrel with slightly warm water about 88 deg.Add some prime.There is submersible pump hooked to 10 foot hose.Run the pump recirculating the water in the barrel.After dinner siphon the fish waste and any uneaten food and drain 30 to 40 gallons of water.By this time the temperature in the barrel has dropped to 82/84 deg.Pump the water in and when done roll away the barrel to the garage.On the weekend I have two barrels side by side as I do 100 % water change.

One big problem with that for me. My tap water is extremely hard. My RO unit only does 100GPD. I don't want a bucket sitting out in plain view either. So I guess i'll have to setup a brute trash can or 40g breeder in my utility room to hold the new water. Already have the hoses, pumps, ect to move the water and to keep it circulating in the holding tank.

[Akili]

One big problem with that for me. My tap water is extremely hard. My RO unit only does 100GPD. I don't want a bucket sitting out in plain view either. So I guess i'll have to setup a brute trash can or 40g breeder in my utility room to hold the new water. Already have the hoses, pumps, ect to move the water and to keep it circulating in the holding tank.A brute trash would be my choice as it has a smaller footprint.

[SNap0283]

tap water is fine unless you plan on breeding in that 90 gallon?

[delta5]

tap water is fine unless you plan on breeding in that 90 gallon?

I'm getting a breeding pair tomorrow. They're currently kept in 7.6ph with 11 hardness (drops of api test before the color changes) So i'll be slowly lowering the ph and hardness over time by using less tap water to RO water. I always did 100% ro water with seachem products for my Africans, but I can't justify the cost to do that with how frequent Discus need water changes.

edit: At the last minute I may change my mind to 5 2.5" blue turquoise tho.

[SNap0283]

And what is your tap water? Discus can easily be put into a higher pH but if you are lowering it do it slow. Sounds like you know what youre doing in that regard. Where are you getting them from? Discus will lay eggs and act as a pair even if its two females. Make sure if a premium is charged for being a pair that they have actually produced offspring.

[delta5]

And what is your tap water? Discus can easily be put into a higher pH but if you are lowering it do it slow. Sounds like you know what youre doing in that regard. Where are you getting them from? Discus will lay eggs and act as a pair even if its two females. Make sure if a premium is charged for being a pair that they have actually produced offspring.

From a family owned store nearby. They have produced eggs and the eggs have hatched. According to the shop, that's the reason they keep them in the water they do. They don't want to deal with everything that comes with fry. Slime coat eating for example.

I did get to see them today and they sure are cute. They stayed close to each other and it was just amazing to see the affection they give each other. My wife HATES fish, but she found them to be cute. Hopefully they will like their new home in my 90g. Black background but I will be putting in a light colored sand. I have an extra bag of aragonite sand but that won't work since it's made for reef cichlids. Wish I could use it because it is very nice looking coarse sand.

edit: tap water is 8.2ph, 14 hardness (API test)

[SNap0283]

if you are going to breed them don't use substrate or else the babies will not be healthy. Black backgrounds are fine unless they are pigeon bloods. A lot of people use them for their show tanks.